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Thread: EII-INFj dilemma liking/disliking people

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Default EII-INFj dilemma liking/disliking people

    "I hate people like that [dishonest, lacking compassion and empathy]" "I hate people like this [only concerned for what she wants and not for what is good for someone else]" By the time I'm done hating who is it that I really love. Just wondering

    But when I meet an individual I find that often I like them :/
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 01-06-2019 at 01:01 AM.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I agree with this more or less. When ppl does things I don't like I see it as they doing something disgusting, I feel they are that too, but it doesn't mean they are necessarily 100% evil or 100% disgusting. I mean, we all are humans with good and bad traits and equal or opposed values.

    However I'm not someone like for needing, wanting or enjoying them when I think their values are actually opposed to mine. I break relations certainly because I think its kinda waste of time to keep communicating or entertaining a relation that eventually would let us to the same point over and over.

    I also think there are ppl who will like them and for who their specific bad traits wouldn't matter so much, who actually can and would value them for who they are (same for me), so like they would take the "whole package" good and bad. I think duality goes in this direction because of shared values. If good stuff is worthy enough like for enduring the bad traits then you keep going. If the good stuff is actually not so great and the things you dislike are harder to endure, then I leave it.

    In this case, Ne ppl usually give me that stuff I like so their bad traits go to second plane of importance.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atari View Post
    I agree with this more or less. When ppl does things I don't like I see it as they doing something disgusting, I feel they are that too, but it doesn't mean they are necessarily 100% evil or 100% disgusting. I mean, we all are humans with good and bad traits and equal or opposed values.

    However I'm not someone like for needing, wanting or enjoying them when I think their values are actually opposed to mine. I break relations certainly because I think its kinda waste of time to keep communicating or entertaining a relation that eventually would let us to the same point over and over.

    I also think there are ppl who will like them and for who their specific bad traits wouldn't matter so much, who actually can and would value them for who they are (same for me), so like they would take the "whole package" good and bad. I think duality goes in this direction because of shared values. If good stuff is worthy enough like for enduring the bad traits then you keep going. If the good stuff is actually not so great and the things you dislike are harder to endure, then I leave it.

    In this case, Ne ppl usually give me that stuff I like so their bad traits go to second plane of importance.
    You’re ISTp?
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Default always remember to zero out yr scale/s

    "Absolutely dead" is the baseline.

    A world w/o people is a world that annihilates the person.

    When someone takes care of themselves, they're taking care of their friend's friend too, the one with the most agency.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    But when I meet an individual I find that often I like them :/
    Until they violate your boundaries and it turns out they do not meet your high expectations. Then you shut them out in the hoping this will make them repent. (With "you", I mean 'EII")
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Until they violate your boundaries and it turns out they do not meet your high expectations. Then you shut them out in the hoping this will make them repent. (With "you", I mean 'EII")
    CG...I met another EII recently. She said people often think that she's conceited at first meeting. I thought geez I'm not like this so what when wrong lol
    I don't think that I've ever turned anyone away. I have a large family, by that I mean 100 people at least. There are 100 types of characters among them and you can imagine the number of situations they've had and although I'm somewhat oblivious to most, my ESE sister never bothers to exclude me "hey did you know this happened to this person?" I always find myself shaking my head but never excluding them. I know I reference to my personal relationships a lot, well it so happens that I live in that small world. I have an SEI friend who I love dearly but she's an odd one. She uses people and gives her friendship to someone who could care less about her and she doesn't like my ethical talking so I'm sure she doesn't feel comfortable in my J ness. What I'm getting at is despite all of that I still maintain friendly relations and even put my ass out to help them. There have only been a few cases when I've let someone in my deep spaces and secret or rather sacred recesses of my being that I've scratched the person off for good. But I tend to not hold onto negative emotions for long. If that person apologized and purchased a copy of a book I lent him and he tore apart, I think I would continue to speak to him at a large psychological distance. I mean very large. VERY VERY LARGE...just "hi, bye, good day to you too." The great thing about Fi is that we can have relationships on all levels if we just recognize that and learn to communicate our energy level with others so we don't get overturned on the monopoly to our time...we need a bit of space...a lot of independence and freedom to create or engage in our hobbies.

    The early forum was a good example of my level of forgiveness. I will not name names of people who were harsh, there were few..but those people are now and have been my friends for some time now. And, the ones who apologized never know how much I didn't hold it against them and how much I truly love them as people.

    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    "Absolutely dead" is the baseline.

    A world w/o people is a world that annihilates the person.

    When someone takes care of themselves, they're taking care of their friend's friend too, the one with the most agency.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 01-06-2019 at 02:53 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    EII prefer do not hate people, as it's too radical approach. They perceive people more complexly, with higher compassion and tolerancy to peoples weaknesses and differences.

    for example:
    all T types mb said as "lacking compassion and empathy" as are concentrated on a thinking, but not emotions (except for close people). EII having Ne value prefer lesser generalizations and see where some trait is good and when is bad, not just to have it is good or bad.

    It's Fe types appoach what you described as you are having EIE type.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    if you were to watch her on video
    I saw her video and seems several of them. Only after this I've rejected EII possibility. Later Fi type was rejected after watching her behavior on the forum. As from video I've got impressions for F-N type, so EIE and IEI is what can to be. IEI should be softer, she reminds more EIE.

    As for "energy" - there are nontypes factors which may supress nonverbal and change it to the side of other types to some degree. Just by videos as I remember I could not understand which F-N type she has, - impressions did not fit clearly to any of them. EIE is supposed as the most possible by all the known.

    You may look at the example of her "soft" and "polite" communication there. In case you suppose it's base Fi type - which are diplomatic, avoiding conflicts and mostly phlegmatic. She reminds me EIEs I know IRL and on forums in the behavior. IEI are easier people in my experience too, but some chance for this type I leave still - as yep, her nonverbal is some strange for EIE.

    I do not understand why she wants to think her type as EII for years. I regularly notice people which mistype themselves by emotional reasons which are hard to imagine. In general, those people react by negative emotions when are said as other types as the reasons behind their typings are emotional and weakly rational. She's the example. Misleadings about EII get my attention more than average.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    I saw her video and seems several of them. Only after this I've rejected EII possibility. Later Fi type was rejected after watching her behavior on the forum. As from video I've got impressions for F-N type, so EIE and IEI is what can to be. IEI should be softer, she reminds more EIE.

    As for "energy" - there are nontypes factors which may supress nonverbal and change it to the side of other types to some degree. Just by videos as I remember I could not understand which F-N type she has, - impressions did not fit clearly to any of them. EIE is supposed as the most possible by all the known.

    You may look at the example of her "soft" and "polite" communication there. In case you suppose it's base Fi type - which are diplomatic, avoiding conflicts and mostly phlegmatic. She reminds me EIEs I know IRL and on forums in the behavior. IEI are easier people in my experience too, but some chance for this type I leave still - as yep, her nonverbal is some strange for EIE.

    I do not understand why she wants to think her type as EII for years. I regularly notice people which mistype themselves by emotional reasons which are hard to imagine. In general, those people react by negative emotions when are said as other types as the reasons behind their typings are emotional and weakly rational. She's the example. Misleadings about EII get my attention more than average.
    I’m Highly ethical and non emotional

    Don’t type based on stereotypes about type
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    You may want to consider not typing people by illusions of perfection but rather by functions
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I feel like this is part of why I was a loner in school in addition to some other problems. I worry that others may have felt I was judging them when I really wanted a friend.
    What is a utopia? A dream unrealized, but not unrealizable. -- Joseph Dejacque
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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    I feel like this is part of why I was a loner in school in addition to some other problems. I worry that others may have felt I was judging them when I really wanted a friend.
    I’ve figured it out. These are traits and qualities that are hated not people
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I can relate, but with time in long relationship you end to appreciate the person for who she/he is because you see in her something you didn't see before and is completely out of the world for you.

    I admit this problem tend to provok conflict into relationship at first.

    There is another vision of the stuff, it's that you don't have to say nothing to the person in front of you. You don't have to be always accomodating : if there is something you don't like, you are not forced to keep it to you and can engage in an arguments. Sometime ppl do EFFECTIVELY bullshit, this is not only a perception. ESTJ often said me that, you don't have to say nothing and fight is admitted. Depend perhaps of the sexe of the INFJ/ESTJ.

    In addition, I propose making peace with yourself : you often hate some stuff you have inside of yourself so in understanding you become more accepting (I say that but this is really hard especially if you have a strong moral side)

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    IDK, I find I'm always acting in response to how people's actions affect me. I can have some firm principles and overcome them in front of some wrong actions, if the person behaves nice with me. If you wrong me once and twice and thrice, then I can become rather vendicative.

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    Yeah I dislike certain behaviors too. Prefer to maintain distance from those individuals instead of seeing them as totally bad without redemption. Also prefer to protect myself from those who are cruel.

    As for "loving" people I personally don't put so much effort or emphasis on it...it is what it is.

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    Focusing consciously on -Fi is jarring and draining to me. I’m not sure how Gammas do it lol.

    but yeah I’m consciously aware of those negative attitudes only as much as I need to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by asd View Post
    Focusing consciously on -Fi is jarring and draining to me. I’m not sure how Gammas do it lol.

    but yeah I’m consciously aware of those negative attitudes only as much as I need to be.
    I've recently had a chance to talk to an ESI for long periods of time, and her conversations seem to consist mainly of how people have wronged her and her friends. (-Fi = minimization of negative relationships.)

    On the other hand, I've talked to an EII for years and her conversations consist mainly of warm, supportive feelings towards people. (+Fi)

    It's an amazing difference.

    Of the two, I obviously much prefer the EII, but I've found that the EII can't motivate me into action. So it would seem that I have to choose between a positive companion and getting nothing done, or a negative companion and actually getting stuff done.

    This seems like a bad deal to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I've recently had a chance to talk to an ESI for long periods of time, and her conversations seem to consist mainly of how people have wronged her and her friends.....On the other hand, I've talked to an EII for years and her conversations consist mainly of warm, supportive feelings towards people......
    Ijs tend to treat all information with reservation, which usually translates to treating strangers that way until they become a known quantity. Now EIIs tend to not be as street-smart as ESIs who focus more on the ugly underbellies. However, your ESI friend seems to talk somewhat like an SXI so there must be some additional baggage.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    Ijs tend to treat all information with reservation, which usually translates to treating strangers that way until they become a known quantity. Now EIIs tend to not be as street-smart as ESIs who focus more on the ugly underbellies. However, your ESI friend seems to talk somewhat like an SXI so there must be some additional baggage.

    a.k.a. I/O
    Yes, this ESI is a puzzle. When I first saw about ten of her pictures on Match, I thought she was an SEI. But there were two pictures where she looked EII and one where she looked angry and slightly insane (ESI) and so I thought they all might add up to an ESI with a very disturbed upbringing. Her father looks SLI. Her mother saved money and might be EII.

    When I first met her, her Si was through the roof. She was channeling my SLI-Te ex about 80% of the time, but when I talked to her about finance, her face melted into an attractive ESI's face, so I thought there might be hope.

    I've since learned that her father is SLI, her brother is SLI, and her sister was mentally disturbed. She's also been married to an LSI with whom she had a competitive relationship, not a partnership. Her first husband was an SEE, and her son is an ILI, and she really dislikes her SLI brother's wife, who VI's as SEI.

    Overall, I'm now pretty sure she's ESI, but @Rebelondeck, I agree with you. She seems to have a LOT of baggage. I don't think she's ever met an LIE before, and she's just really, really holding me at a distance.

    Let me ask you this: What is it about her speech that makes you think she talks like an SXI? I know a few female SXI's, but my assessment of them is entirely through VI. I mean, my SLI ex's Si was mind-numbing, and this ESI has incredibly strong Si but she never talks at great length about how to chop vegetables, or how she color-coordinates her shoelaces with her eye color. (Just kill me now. Please, God, make it stop.)
    Basically, I see visual differences best, but I'd like to know what you were seeing in her speech.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 04-18-2021 at 04:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    ........What is it about her speech that makes you think she talks like an SXI?.......
    It's just that SXIs tend to have a lot of conversations about how people have wronged them or their friends. ESIs tend to hold their thoughts in or bury them unless revealing them have real purposes.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    It's just that SXIs tend to have a lot of conversations about how people have wronged them or their friends. ESIs tend to hold their thoughts in or bury them unless revealing them have real purposes.

    a.k.a. I/O
    OK, thanks.

    It's just that not once in my entire life have I ever heard either my SLI father or SLI ex say a single bad thing about anyone. Never. Although my SLI son has sometimes said that he's avoiding someone because he thinks they are trouble.

    Maybe they are exceptions to the rule.

    I have heard an SEI say that she thought one SEE was not someone she wanted to know better.

    What is notable about talking to this ESI is that her complaints seem largely incoherent. They seem more like random shouts without context. It took me months to put together a coherent dialog of what she was complaining about.

    Maybe it took me a long time to decipher her Fi speech, or maybe the male ESIs that I've known have simply never complained like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    .....It's just that not once in my entire life have I ever heard either my SLI father or SLI ex say a single bad thing about anyone......

    What is notable about talking to this ESI is that her complaints seem largely incoherent........
    I've met many SXIs with conspiracy theories and the disgust or hate is usually evident in the facial expressions; output subtypes can be chatty but yes, many don't say much. I have not met an ESI who was incoherent even at the worst of times but a few had outbursts of anger that seemed to come out of nowhere. I've known two SEIs who were somewhat incoherent when they got emotional.

    a.k.a. I/O

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