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Thread: Dilemma of EII

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Default Dilemma of EII

    "I hate people like that [dishonest, lacking compassion and empathy]" "I hate people like this [only concerned for what she wants and not for what is good for someone else]" By the time I'm done hating who is it that I really love. Just wondering

    But when I meet an individual I find that often I like them :/
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 01-06-2019 at 01:01 AM.
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Perhaps that's where the saying "hate the sin, not the sinner" originated, as some attempt to separate the values you dislike from the person holding those values. idk

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    I agree with this more or less. When ppl does things I don't like I see it as they doing something disgusting, I feel they are that too, but it doesn't mean they are necessarily 100% evil or 100% disgusting. I mean, we all are humans with good and bad traits and equal or opposed values.

    However I'm not someone like for needing, wanting or enjoying them when I think their values are actually opposed to mine. I break relations certainly because I think its kinda waste of time to keep communicating or entertaining a relation that eventually would let us to the same point over and over.

    I also think there are ppl who will like them and for who their specific bad traits wouldn't matter so much, who actually can and would value them for who they are (same for me), so like they would take the "whole package" good and bad. I think duality goes in this direction because of shared values. If good stuff is worthy enough like for enduring the bad traits then you keep going. If the good stuff is actually not so great and the things you dislike are harder to endure, then I leave it.

    In this case, Ne ppl usually give me that stuff I like so their bad traits go to second plane of importance.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atari View Post
    I agree with this more or less. When ppl does things I don't like I see it as they doing something disgusting, I feel they are that too, but it doesn't mean they are necessarily 100% evil or 100% disgusting. I mean, we all are humans with good and bad traits and equal or opposed values.

    However I'm not someone like for needing, wanting or enjoying them when I think their values are actually opposed to mine. I break relations certainly because I think its kinda waste of time to keep communicating or entertaining a relation that eventually would let us to the same point over and over.

    I also think there are ppl who will like them and for who their specific bad traits wouldn't matter so much, who actually can and would value them for who they are (same for me), so like they would take the "whole package" good and bad. I think duality goes in this direction because of shared values. If good stuff is worthy enough like for enduring the bad traits then you keep going. If the good stuff is actually not so great and the things you dislike are harder to endure, then I leave it.

    In this case, Ne ppl usually give me that stuff I like so their bad traits go to second plane of importance.
    You’re ISTp?
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Default always remember to zero out yr scale/s

    "Absolutely dead" is the baseline.

    A world w/o people is a world that annihilates the person.

    When someone takes care of themselves, they're taking care of their friend's friend too, the one with the most agency.
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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    But when I meet an individual I find that often I like them :/
    Until they violate your boundaries and it turns out they do not meet your high expectations. Then you shut them out in the hoping this will make them repent. (With "you", I mean 'EII")
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    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Until they violate your boundaries and it turns out they do not meet your high expectations. Then you shut them out in the hoping this will make them repent. (With "you", I mean 'EII")
    CG...I met another EII recently. She said people often think that she's conceited at first meeting. I thought geez I'm not like this so what when wrong lol
    I don't think that I've ever turned anyone away. I have a large family, by that I mean 100 people at least. There are 100 types of characters among them and you can imagine the number of situations they've had and although I'm somewhat oblivious to most, my ESE sister never bothers to exclude me "hey did you know this happened to this person?" I always find myself shaking my head but never excluding them. I know I reference to my personal relationships a lot, well it so happens that I live in that small world. I have an SEI friend who I love dearly but she's an odd one. She uses people and gives her friendship to someone who could care less about her and she doesn't like my ethical talking so I'm sure she doesn't feel comfortable in my J ness. What I'm getting at is despite all of that I still maintain friendly relations and even put my ass out to help them. There have only been a few cases when I've let someone in my deep spaces and secret or rather sacred recesses of my being that I've scratched the person off for good. But I tend to not hold onto negative emotions for long. If that person apologized and purchased a copy of a book I lent him and he tore apart, I think I would continue to speak to him at a large psychological distance. I mean very large. VERY VERY LARGE...just "hi, bye, good day to you too." The great thing about Fi is that we can have relationships on all levels if we just recognize that and learn to communicate our energy level with others so we don't get overturned on the monopoly to our time...we need a bit of space...a lot of independence and freedom to create or engage in our hobbies.

    The early forum was a good example of my level of forgiveness. I will not name names of people who were harsh, there were few..but those people are now and have been my friends for some time now. And, the ones who apologized never know how much I didn't hold it against them and how much I truly love them as people.

    Quote Originally Posted by woofwoofl View Post
    "Absolutely dead" is the baseline.

    A world w/o people is a world that annihilates the person.

    When someone takes care of themselves, they're taking care of their friend's friend too, the one with the most agency.
    Last edited by Beautiful sky; 01-06-2019 at 02:53 PM.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beautiful sky View Post
    The early forum was a good example of my level of forgiveness. I will not name names of people who were harsh, there were few..
    I certainly was. I thought there were some things you needed to hear, but you didn't seem to take it badly. That's something I've noticed with other EIIs also, is that they don't seem to get easily offended. I've said things that a lot of people would get butthurt about, and often the EIIs don't - they take it in stride, and it's surprising, but refreshing. I think part of it is positivism, the ability to find what's good and constructive. It can't be Ne, because lol IEEs aren't so forgiving, and certainly will take offense hah. The arguments I've had with some IEEs lol. And it can't be Fi, because ESIs ime have been really good at holding grudges. Anyway, it makes communication with EIIs fairly easy from a distance. It's only in person that our different approaches really start to clash.

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    EII prefer do not hate people, as it's too radical approach. They perceive people more complexly, with higher compassion and tolerancy to peoples weaknesses and differences.

    for example:
    all T types mb said as "lacking compassion and empathy" as are concentrated on a thinking, but not emotions (except for close people). EII having Ne value prefer lesser generalizations and see where some trait is good and when is bad, not just to have it is good or bad.

    It's Fe types appoach what you described as you are having EIE type.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    I think @Sol that if you were to watch her on video you would quickly see she's not EIE. No energy is coming outward from her, she pulls in towards herself, soft-spoken and giving a soft and accommodating impression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    if you were to watch her on video
    I saw her video and seems several of them. Only after this I've rejected EII possibility. Later Fi type was rejected after watching her behavior on the forum. As from video I've got impressions for F-N type, so EIE and IEI is what can to be. IEI should be softer, she reminds more EIE.

    As for "energy" - there are nontypes factors which may supress nonverbal and change it to the side of other types to some degree. Just by videos as I remember I could not understand which F-N type she has, - impressions did not fit clearly to any of them. EIE is supposed as the most possible by all the known.

    You may look at the example of her "soft" and "polite" communication there. In case you suppose it's base Fi type - which are diplomatic, avoiding conflicts and mostly phlegmatic. She reminds me EIEs I know IRL and on forums in the behavior. IEI are easier people in my experience too, but some chance for this type I leave still - as yep, her nonverbal is some strange for EIE.

    I do not understand why she wants to think her type as EII for years. I regularly notice people which mistype themselves by emotional reasons which are hard to imagine. In general, those people react by negative emotions when are said as other types as the reasons behind their typings are emotional and weakly rational. She's the example. Misleadings about EII get my attention more than average.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    I saw her video and seems several of them. Only after this I've rejected EII possibility. Later Fi type was rejected after watching her behavior on the forum. As from video I've got impressions for F-N type, so EIE and IEI is what can to be. IEI should be softer, she reminds more EIE.

    As for "energy" - there are nontypes factors which may supress nonverbal and change it to the side of other types to some degree. Just by videos as I remember I could not understand which F-N type she has, - impressions did not fit clearly to any of them. EIE is supposed as the most possible by all the known.

    You may look at the example of her "soft" and "polite" communication there. In case you suppose it's base Fi type - which are diplomatic, avoiding conflicts and mostly phlegmatic. She reminds me EIEs I know IRL and on forums in the behavior. IEI are easier people in my experience too, but some chance for this type I leave still - as yep, her nonverbal is some strange for EIE.

    I do not understand why she wants to think her type as EII for years. I regularly notice people which mistype themselves by emotional reasons which are hard to imagine. In general, those people react by negative emotions when are said as other types as the reasons behind their typings are emotional and weakly rational. She's the example. Misleadings about EII get my attention more than average.
    I’m Highly ethical and non emotional

    Don’t type based on stereotypes about type
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    You may want to consider not typing people by illusions of perfection but rather by functions
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    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Professional Turtle Taknamay's Avatar
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    I feel like this is part of why I was a loner in school in addition to some other problems. I worry that others may have felt I was judging them when I really wanted a friend.
    What is a utopia? A dream unrealized, but not unrealizable. -- Joseph Dejacque
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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    I feel like this is part of why I was a loner in school in addition to some other problems. I worry that others may have felt I was judging them when I really wanted a friend.
    I’ve figured it out. These are traits and qualities that are hated not people
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I can relate, but with time in long relationship you end to appreciate the person for who she/he is because you see in her something you didn't see before and is completely out of the world for you.

    I admit this problem tend to provok conflict into relationship at first.

    There is another vision of the stuff, it's that you don't have to say nothing to the person in front of you. You don't have to be always accomodating : if there is something you don't like, you are not forced to keep it to you and can engage in an arguments. Sometime ppl do EFFECTIVELY bullshit, this is not only a perception. ESTJ often said me that, you don't have to say nothing and fight is admitted. Depend perhaps of the sexe of the INFJ/ESTJ.

    In addition, I propose making peace with yourself : you often hate some stuff you have inside of yourself so in understanding you become more accepting (I say that but this is really hard especially if you have a strong moral side)

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    IDK, I find I'm always acting in response to how people's actions affect me. I can have some firm principles and overcome them in front of some wrong actions, if the person behaves nice with me. If you wrong me once and twice and thrice, then I can become rather vendicative.

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    Yeah I dislike certain behaviors too. Prefer to maintain distance from those individuals instead of seeing them as totally bad without redemption. Also prefer to protect myself from those who are cruel.

    As for "loving" people I personally don't put so much effort or emphasis on it...it is what it is.

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