SEI/ISFp and Te polr

[Beautiful sky]

SE (SEI) needs a partner who can break up work into stages and set deadlines, and also took over the part of work that needs a more objective approach, such as knowing the instructions and regulations, etc.

The above is from making duality work...

So do you guys think that this "objective approach" which is "knowing instructions and regulations" a Te Polr?

[Narc]

What.

[Iris]

SE (SEI) needs a partner who can break up work into stages and set deadlines, and also took over the part of work that needs a more objective approach, such as knowing the instructions and regulations, etc.

The above is from making duality work...

So do you guys think that this "objective approach" which is "knowing instructions and regulations" a Te Polr?

The only way that I have seen Te polr manifested in SEIs is that they can be a little chaotic in bill paying, which can also be true of other types. I guess they compensate for it with their mobilizing function of Ti. So the SEI carpenter I know has a day set aside for paying bills and taking care of other business items. I could be wrong about this, but it seems like SEIs would have an easier time covering for Te polr because they are sensors. They seem to be very capable at life. Most average functioning adults can figure out instructions and regulations, so I am not sure that is a good tool for identifying SEIs. But Te vs Ti is a hard distinction for me. Phrases like "objective approach" don't have a lot of meaning for me so sorry not to be of much help. What I do notice in SEI's is their appreciation of novelty. It is very subtle, but your can see a definite spark of joy light them up. They are such great people. I could almost think I was ILE because I like them so much. But I don't like that SI focus enough. I actually work very well with the carpenter, despite him being my socionics supervisor. Because he is working for me.

[Beautiful sky]

The only way that I have seen Te polr manifested in SEIs is that they can be a little chaotic in bill paying, which can also be true of other types. I guess they compensate for it with their mobilizing function of Ti. So the SEI carpenter I know has a day set aside for paying bills and taking care of other business items. I could be wrong about this, but it seems like SEIs would have an easier time covering for Te polr because they are sensors. They seem to be very capable at life. Most average functioning adults can figure out instructions and regulations, so I am not sure that is a good tool for identifying SEIs. But Te vs Ti is a hard distinction for me. Phrases like "objective approach" don't have a lot of meaning for me so sorry not to be of much help. What I do notice in SEI's is their appreciation of novelty. It is very subtle, but your can see a definite spark of joy light them up. They are such great people. I could almost think I was ILE because I like them so much. But I don't like that SI focus enough. I actually work very well with the carpenter, despite him being my socionics supervisor. Because he is working for me.

Yeah, but rules and regulations isn't exactly bill paying.

[Iris]

Yeah, but rules and regulations isn't exactly bill paying.

But is "rules and regulations" Te? I was probably not the best person to answer that, because it's hard for me to identify that polr in my SEI friends. They are a carpenter, a librarian, a stay at home mom and a student. They don't seem to have much trouble functioning in life. I have not seen them perplexed by any polr. They seem pretty serene most of the time. Hmm, I may start a Te polr thread. I may have thought of an example... but now I have to go accomplish work somehow this morning.

[Beautiful sky]

But is "rules and regulations" Te? I was probably not the best person to answer that, because it's hard for me to identify that polr in my SEI friends. They are a carpenter, a librarian, a stay at home mom and a student. They don't seem to have much trouble functioning in life. I have not seen them perplexed by any polr. They seem pretty serene most of the time. Hmm, I may start a Te polr thread. I may have thought of an example... but now I have to go accomplish work somehow this morning.

Probably. I think it is because it's facts outside of a subjective interpretation; now facts can also be Ti, but in a different way as explained here:

http://socionist.blogspot.com/2006/1...revisited.html

Both aspects involve citing or listing facts and data; in citing data serves to specify the subject of discussion and the order of listing is irrelevant, while in it reflects the information's internal structure. Also in common between the aspects is the theme of discussion - expressing and substantiating one's thoughts, as well as the habit of referring to the functioning of living things (people) as if they were mechanisms.

essentially treats facts and data as external, autonomous objects (emphasizing facts, details, principles, algorithms, and the act of expressing them), while perceives data in the context of its structure and organization (emphasizing constructions, models, proper organization of data, outlines, systems, and structures).

focuses on the what and the how of facts and data, while focuses on the why - the logical basis of assertions.

focuses on the external proof of assertions - facts, examples, illustrations, concrete data and its interpretation - while focuses on internal proofs of the logic of statements and the consistency of logical principles applied.

So one gets the data and enforces it and the other just says "is that what you applied?" or something like that?

But interesting enough, demonstrative function Te does help the dual's PoLR

[JaggedFel]

But interesting enough, demonstrative function Te does help the dual's PoLR

A demonstrative function is on the "ID" level of model A and thus is unperceived. That means it's not "discussable", just working without words, this removes pressure on PoLR. Hereby, demonstrative function Te doesn't require SEI's response or work on his PoLR. So, ILE just kinda silently helps SEI with that, that's what I see.

As for the biggest fear on Te PoLR, I see it's a routine job with no interest or inspiration in it, just for the money. As for the business situations, a SEI needs detailed information on and to feel comfortable. This could be detailed instructions on what could happen and what exactly a SEI must do.

[Beautiful sky]

A demonstrative function is on the "ID" level of model A and thus is unperceived. That means it's not "discussable", just working without words, this removes pressure on PoLR. Hereby, demonstrative function Te doesn't require SEI's response or work on his PoLR. So, ILE just kinda silently helps SEI with that, that's what I see.

As for the biggest fear on Te PoLR, I see it's a routine job with no interest or inspiration in it, just for the money. As for the business situations, a SEI needs detailed information on and to feel comfortable. This could be detailed instructions on what could happen and what exactly a SEI must do.

Very nice post

[Kirana]

But Te vs Ti is a hard distinction for me.

OK, disclaimer: this is not at all about SEI. Te vs Ti for me, is best illustrated in the same-coin-different-sides way the LSE I work with and I would begin to think about a technical conceptual plan (a plan describing the problem and then the technology proposed to solve the problem).

I would immediately pick out the fundamental pieces of information to understand at a structural level, what the outcomes need to be, examine/check that the key attributes of the technology match up to the problem therefore it will work, and what measures I'm going to use to decide that it did work. Basically that all the pieces fit together, will 'move' as intended, feasible to do, and feasible to monitor/evaluate. If it's part of an even larger set of works, I would pick out the points where it connects to other work streams and check that the whole still fits together and consistent with the overall strategy. When it's running I will notice if key predicted responses indicate the effect it should achieve on the problem (the abstract 'machine'), is not as expected. Plus, I will like to talk about this. That's my leading Ti. I would have a lower attention span for the nuts and bolts of building it.

My LSE colleague on seeing the same plan, will also immediately start mentally filling in the blanks, but he will be evaluating whether the technology is buildable in practice, how he might actually do it, where he might look for parts, how it might be powered, if the equipment specs are compatible with each other. He would be evaluating if the equipment specs are sufficient, excessive or below the grade required, if the steps may not be doable as they're in the wrong order or can't be done with the material specified. When the machine is built, he will notice if there are things to tweak, add or remove, to make it more efficient (the 'actual' machine). He will like to talk about this. He will start thinking about permits that would be needed, health & safety regulations that would apply (but if these risk abatement decisions are not in a regulation - meaning you have to decide what's appropriate by yourself - it gets a bit harder for him). That's his leading Te. He's perfectly ok with building a system, without necessarily thinking about the objective of having the system built. That someone needs one built is enough. I cannot even begin to think about building a machine, before satisfying myself on the objective reason it should be built (why does someone need one built in the first place).

How Te might manifest as PoLR? Not entirely sure, but my SEI friend and former colleague would have meetings and not have minutes of them, payment records or record archival in general are dicey if existing at all, and for field visits, will avoid the machines and be more interested in the workers. But you're right, generally people are much more forgiving of people who don't have strong Te, comparatively. It's not very noticeable, because daily life rarely requires a high degree of it. I feel types with T or N PoLR have an easier time in terms of getting leniency from the community (seen as 'specialist' functions anyway, thus not everyone should be expected to be strong at it), compared to types who have S or F PoLR (seen as 'human' functions, thus if you're not strong at it you're being contrary on purpose).

[serenity]

But is "rules and regulations" Te? I was probably not the best person to answer that, because it's hard for me to identify that polr in my SEI friends. They are a carpenter, a librarian, a stay at home mom and a student. They don't seem to have much trouble functioning in life. I have not seen them perplexed by any polr. They seem pretty serene most of the time. Hmm, I may start a Te polr thread. I may have thought of an example... but now I have to go accomplish work somehow this morning.

My SEI friend Te Polr seems to be related to dry facts and people not believing her when she's giving those dry facts. She complained to me about the matter and she doesn't complain a lot, or at all! Like most nice SEI...

For example, she talked about facts concerning homeopathy with a neighbour who didn't give credibility to what she was saying and who went on the internet to prove to my friend that she was wrong! My friend seemed very hurt about the matter, when she's not seen competent or knowledgeable enough to talk about a subject (that matters to her a lot, by the way!) :/

[Beautiful sky]

My SEI friend Te Polr seems to be related to dry facts and people not believing her when she's giving those dry facts. She complained to me about the matter and she doesn't complain a lot, or at all! Like most nice SEI...

For example, she talked about facts concerning homeopathy with a neighbour who didn't give credibility to what she was saying and who went on the internet to prove to my friend that she was wrong! My friend seemed very hurt about the matter, when she's not seen competent or knowledgeable enough to talk about a subject (that matters to her a lot, by the way!) :/

Yeah, I've seen that. Thanks for this post. I think Te polr is going with trust on things that may not be seen as "credible". Like what Opera does

Today, I should share, someone from an advertising company called and she was going on and on and on about this particular type of add and it seemed that my SEI friend who took the call could not process any of the information as it was being offered to her. She's much better at coming to trust something then implementing or following what she trusts as you've very much described in the above. What she did was buzz me (we work together) and asked me to take the call. I'm very very good at getting to the heart of the matter and digesting large quantities of information, asking the relevant questions and also making a decision about these matters. I can be curt sometimes as to save time so I do tend to interrupt the person's long speeches when I have a question that I want an answer for which will help me make a decision. I did stop the advertisers with my interjected questions and helped her guide to offering me the relevant info, which she did once I directed her. So what would have taken a lot of time for her to talk and talk about the aspects of that advertising I cut the call by a lot (time wise) and got her to send me the prices via email. When I buzzed my SEI friend back she said "yeah you're so much better at calls like these" even though she's gotten them so often, much more than I have in my lifetime. So yes, sometimes SEI are better off with their job being taken over by someone else rather than someone else helping them somehow to learn it and with stuff that has to do with processing informational aspects, I think she benefits from me greatly.

[Tzuyu]

I don't think people understand how bad Te polr can get, it's not just being bad with money or chores. And even I struggle with deadlines sometimes.

My mom, after undergoing depression from a bad marriage and 'recovering', was the image of picturesque from the outside. If you got to know her better, you would know that she started posting insane social media posts about the deep state and how she was having stalkers sent from the government. She genuinely believed her coworker planted a bomb inside her car, she started reading and consuming mass amounts of conspiracy theories on the internet, mainly about the mafia had taken over America. I begged for her to seek some mental health treatment, but she refused. I told my friends about it and they were shocked because of how normal and nice she looked from the outside. She'll probably believe in those conspiracy theories until she dies. While I do think she has a paranoia disorder, I think Te polr has something integral to do with it. You can wave statistics in her face and she'll only go blank for a bit before picking right off on one of her rants.

Another SEI I think is a great example of the scary side of Te polr is Gwyneth Paltrow, a creator of the pseudoscience brand GOOP. Normally pseudoscience's are a snake oil business but it seems like she genuinely believes in her products despite how borderline dangerous some of her "facts" are.

"But when it comes to health tips, the site is full of dodgy information, with unfounded warnings about things that are safe — like bras and sunscreen — and zealous promotion of things with little-to-no proven benefits — like cleanses and vaginal steaming, not to mention various trendy diets. Some of the alternative medicine practices on the site could even be dangerous."

“She equates not using science, and not using facts, with being open-minded,” said health researcher and author of Is Gwyneth Paltrow Wrong About Everything? Tim Caulfield, “which is exactly wrong. If you’re open-minded, you look at the facts, weigh the facts, use the body of evidence we have available to us to make determinations about what the reality is. And she doesn’t seem interested in doing that.”

[Tallmo]

My mom, after undergoing depression from a bad marriage and 'recovering', was the image of picturesque from the outside. If you got to know her better, you would know that she started posting insane social media posts about the deep state and how she was having stalkers sent from the government. She genuinely believed her coworker planted a bomb inside her car, she started reading and consuming mass amounts of conspiracy theories on the internet, mainly about the mafia had taken over America. I begged for her to seek some mental health treatment, but she refused. I told my friends about it and they were shocked because of how normal and nice she looked from the outside. She'll probably believe in those conspiracy theories until she dies. While I do think she has a paranoia disorder, I think Te polr has something integral to do with it. You can wave statistics in her face and she'll only go blank for a bit before picking right off on one of her rants.

This sounds more like inferior Ne gone bad.

Jung on the Ne of the Si type:

this archaic, extraverted intuition has an amazing flair for every ambiguous, gloomy, dirty, and dangerous possibility in the background of reality. In the presence of this intuition the real and conscious intention of the object has no significance; it will peer behind every possible archaic antecedent of such an intention. It possesses, therefore, something dangerous, something actually undermining, which often stands in most vivid contrast to the gentle benevolence of consciousness.

[Adam Strange]

Experiencing your PoLR is like being a deer in the headlights.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

I think Te polr and being bad with money is a bad stereotype, as I'm actually very good with the money I do have, and responsible/resourceful that way etc. Having 4DNi covers up a lot of that 'weakness' as well... although I think if you are a younger middle class IEI it might be hard to see this yet, as I have pleasantly surprised myself with how business like I can be. =p And there are examples of IEIs that become rich and famous (like Marilyn Manson)

Te polr, in a more nuance "actual" sense- is more like taking personal offense to how external organizations communicate & interact with each other - instead of taking it very coldly/logic/'objective' the way a LIE views those things, an IEI/SEI takes it to heart. One of those organizations as an example does include the financial institutions but it's such a small example of Te...but the beauty of your polr is that you ignore it's rules to better show your beauty to the world. Like the Ti polr in SEE/IEEs- they ignore logical categories enough to see the universal humanity in people. The IEI/SEI ignores Te to reveal to all how "the system" fucks us all over and hurts humanity. SLI/ILI ignores Fe in order to be very useful/practical/reliable etc.

It's probably stereotypically easier in a sense for a Te-ego to earn money then a polr only because a Te-ego is more effortlessly mentally juggling external systems to work for them as outside tools rather then feeling like it all us to come 'from them internally' - as they know it's not personal like that as they aren't taking it one dimensionally. (1D = mostly only personal data gets filtered thru) In theory they are a lot less likely to get exhausted because of that. However, an IEI can easily understand this weakness with his own Ni and just warp things to his own advantage as well.

In non-dualistic sense- just because it's incredibly personable and emo- it doesn't mean that everybody else hasn't also felt it from one time or another. So your other functions are always working 'extra hard' to cover up your PoLR. Otherwise you would have long been dead already. LOL.

[The Reality Denialist]

Well, well. For the OP.. The dissemination of things is kind of easy. It is like taking the problem as a whole and trying to puncture it to pieces that can be reassembled. I do not really like to deal with detailed examination laws because it is boring but to face unusual problems. I assume there are lawyer kind of ILE's.