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Thread: Could you type this, er...Friend??? of mine?

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    Default Could you type this, er...Friend??? of mine?

    I'm not sure if the information provided here will be enough to even consider a type, but I can try.
    WARNING: really long thread. lots of history for background info's sake.

    We first met during a math tutoring lesson. Back then, we were both in the danger of miserably failing the 8th grade because of mathematics, and that was the only thing we had in common. When I first saw her, I perceived her to be one of the most uninteresting and boring persons in existence. I was right, for the most part. Her weird (to say the least) mannerisms, slothful and spaced-out way of speaking and demeanor, combined with a not-so-radiant appearance attracted the mockery and teasing of every dickwad possible. She got made fun of a LOT (but this is middle and high school for you). We ended up landing in the same high school and group but haven't spoken to each other for a whole two years.

    I don't really remember how we came to be friends then, I just remember we somehow were. It was a very short-lived friendship, though, one that ended with a #deep feelsy talk about people and relationships, her invalidating me, me feeling belittled and furious and calling her a hypocrite, and her blocking me on the messaging app that we used back then. And then there was silence.

    For about a year and a half, we haven't spoken to each other at all once again. *She* was the one who first messaged me, asking for some schoolwork sheets (which I found odd-- Why would you unblock someone that you fell out with just because you need some schoolwork-related stuff from them when there are 16 other classmates you could ask? ).
    Schoolwork turned into small talk, which turned into banter which turned into actual-talk, which turned into a friendship. I recommended Twin Peaks to her-- I was in love with the show and was halfway through with it back then. I got the impression that she'll love it as well. And she did! For the longest time, that show was the cohesion element between us and it did a great job greasing the wheels of our friendship. We started going out together and that's...when I didn't feel too well about things anymore. She seemed genuinely disinterested in everything I had to say, lmao. The burden of maintaining the conversations and having them not fall into awkward-silence territory fell on my shoulders entirely. Her favorite activity was complaining and whining about how fake people are, apparently. She was the kind of girl to post "I'm not like the other girls" photos on her Facebook, but that kind of died out over time...and I'm sooo glad it did.

    She seems to be a weird mix of emotionally subdued and tone-unaware in conversations. The latter was specifically embarrassing to me a couple of times . She is SO LOUD sometimes. And she seems really unaware of her tone as well. We'd go on walks on summer mornings together and chit-chat, and her voice would echo through the streets. I'd awkwardly smile and look around for other people and their expressions, in case any of them hears us. We had a talk about BDSM in a public park and she just had to make sure that the whole alley knew about her stance on BDSM LOL. But otherwise, there is no emotional edge to her voice. The most she does is talk a bit squeaky-up-and-down when she's involved or complaining/outraged about a topic, but otherwise, it's really...dead.

    At school, she's reclusive and quiet. You won't hear a single word out of her mouth for the whole day, sometimes. I'm loud, make shitty obscene jokes with some classmates. We both can't wait to get home and for the shitshow to end, though. Out of school, it's the other way around: She goes out, is really social, whereas I could stay inside all day.

    I convinced her to change her life plans completely. She seemed to lack any direction in life when we first started talking and appeared content with the idea of going to the Netherlands to major in Business...even though she never had a penchant for that crap. Nor did she like it. But her parents did. "Jobs for the future" and all that. As cliche as "do what you love!" talks may be, it didn't seem that obvious to her. So I talked her into actually *doing* what she loves, and now she's working her way to be independent. Speaking of independence, she said this is one of her most sought for ideals when it comes to the future. Kinda peculiar to me, when I think of how she was so fine with the idea of throwing her fate into the arms of her parents so easily.

    A thing that got on my nerves is that she's really childish :/
    She wanted to spend 27.000 pounds as a loan to go to MET (the most expensive and prestigious film school in the UK, methinks). I told her how stupid of an idea that would be, considering she has no filmmaking experience whatsoever! And film, like every other art form, is something that you can do without standardized preparation as well. It's nice getting training, sure, but you can't really teach insight and creativity-- two elements which I think she seriously lacks, but I never had the heart to tell her honestly. She already perceives me as a pretentious, artsy boogeyman and I don't want to further that image. Gave her examples of directors, writers, photographers, musicians, all of them had no tangency with academia and managed to become figures we cherish and enjoy the works of, today. She ended up agreeing that her idea was really silly after all.

    It's okay to vent, but please do specify if all you want is venting beforehand. I wound up writing a paragraph-long piece of advice for her once and her response was "I'm going to eat", turning a deaf ear to me completely. That pissed me off like no other thing in our friendship. If you find my advice not fitting for you, or even redundant, I'd rather have the person mention it to me, instead of not being receptive to my attempts to help them at all.
    Our "friendship" has been going downhill more and more every day since we started talking again. I was/am aware of this, and for this fact, I've been distancing and not putting much faith in the friendship myself. I see her more as a buddy or acquaintance nowadays, not a friend. She's been using me as a personal editor and (un)professional official movie/book recommender.

    As of today, writing this, it's her birthday. I suck at remembering dates; The only birthdays I know are mine, my father's and my grandma's (because it's on Halloween). She got really offensive this morning when I messaged her about a different subject and said: "You chose the wrong day to talk about X with me."
    "Why?"
    "What day is it today?"
    It then hit me that it's her birthday. Saying "Happy birthday" then would be really silly and would ruin the mood. She'd know I forgot and wished her a happy birthday just because she said so. I got really defensive because her attitude bothered me; The day had literally just begun, it's 10 AM. It's as if I'm her husband and this is our Golden Wedding or something.

    I'm 70% sure she sees me as a pretentious artsy snob and that she doesn't care too much about the advice I gave her, even though she maybe internally-recognizes that it helps/helped her, you won't ever see her thanking me or actually admitting my contribution.
    I see her as childish, deadpan and naive (if such a combination is even possible).
    I'm not sure how much of the "spaced out" impression is true and how much of it is actually just being...slow and slothful, once better knowing her.
    I gained, over time, a wicked satisfaction in teasing her about her try-hard moral righteousness. She seems to always strive for it to the point where it seems fake and ridiculous to me.
    A happy example of that would be when I was swooning over out art teacher once
    She smiled and said "Stop it dude"
    "It's not your business who I'm fawning over, pfffft"
    "Yeah, it's not as if she's married! And has kids!"
    "Affairs exist, y'know"
    "They're immoral!"
    "ThEy'Re ImMORal"
    She then proceeded to smack me and I laughed. That was some good banter, but sometimes things are not as fun as I intend them to be between us. I get a kick out of calling her "Hypocrite" sometimes, as a nod to our fallout from two-three years ago.

    If you find all of this type-worthy and made it thus far, congratulations!
    Awaiting input. There miiight be more stuff worth mentioning but i'm sure i forgot it. Ask more questions and i may be able to get the answers straight from her.
    4w3 7w6 9w1 so/sx

    "You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it."

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    My two cents:

    Her inability to see the future means low Ni.
    Her response of “I’m eating” to your advice sounds high Se or high Si.
    Her introversion in school among strangers and insistence on telling you what’s what when you are together sounds Introvert.
    Her career drift is not Te-dom.
    Her moralizing seems Fi-dom.
    Your on-again, off-again relationship with her sounds like Benefit.

    I’m guessing she is ESI.

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    Mb SEI. The stuff of talking really loud seems clear good use of Fe. Lacking of direction about career could indicate need of Ne and wasting money unwisely thinking that doing so would help her career choosing probably Te Polr and again Ne suggestive (like she needs to see what those ppl are doing, she's unaware of their own skills, need something to open up a perspective), the morals 4DFi. ESI from the described is unlikely imo, especially because Se creative are aware of their environment and 4DFi lead would make hard for them to speak out loud about intimate stuff such as bdsm. Sounds more like Fi on SEI. But you know her.
    Last edited by Ragdoll Lynx; 01-02-2019 at 02:45 PM.

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    IQ over 150 vesstheastralsilky's Avatar
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    I'd guess with hmmmm at least 85% chance EIE. That was before I considered intertype relations between you and saw Feathers wrote this. Quasi-Identical makes it sound even more likely. Which intertype relation do you suspect?? For even more validation you could try reading the EII (sic - mistake intended) profile by Gulenko at socionics.com for the real EIE Fe Ni. Is your acquaintance really good at deductive games like Clue, by any chance? That would be a further Ni yes.
    Last edited by vesstheastralsilky; 01-02-2019 at 02:26 PM.
    ~* astralsilky

    4w5 that morphed into a 3w2 sx/sp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    My two cents:

    Her inability to see the future means low Ni.
    Her response of “I’m eating” to your advice sounds high Se or high Si.
    Her introversion in school among strangers and insistence on telling you what’s what when you are together sounds Introvert.
    Her career drift is not Te-dom.
    Her moralizing seems Fi-dom.
    Your on-again, off-again relationship with her sounds like Benefit.

    I’m guessing she is ESI.
    Coming through as always, Adam <3

    Thanks for your input as well, vess and @Atari. Both ESI and SEI seem good options for her, leaning more towards ESI myself, out of the two. I'd gladly give it over to you Adam, but she's only turned 18. If you don't mind that sort of thing, feel free to book a flight to Romania anytime soon
    I would've said xLI the first time I met her but after the incidents that occurred throughout our relationship, not anymore.
    She has some eating habits that I find ridiculous and sometimes disgusting. She eats anything at any time with no regard to it. And has a messed up sleeping schedule. She sleeps at school and sometimes I'd just play Kate Bush into her ear to wake her up
    As for eating, lots of snacks, few actual meals. She once said she can survive with just biscuits for a whole day or something similar.
    Not quite like my ex girlfriend who would only eat ICE CUBES some days, but still odd to me.
    4w3 7w6 9w1 so/sx

    "You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plumes View Post
    Coming through as always, Adam <3

    Thanks for your input as well, vess and @Atari. Both ESI and SEI seem good options for her, leaning more towards ESI myself, out of the two. I'd gladly give it over to you Adam, but she's only turned 18. If you don't mind that sort of thing, feel free to book a flight to Romania anytime soon
    I would've said xLI the first time I met her but after the incidents that occurred throughout our relationship, not anymore.
    She has some eating habits that I find ridiculous and sometimes disgusting. She eats anything at any time with no regard to it. And has a messed up sleeping schedule. She sleeps at school and sometimes I'd just play Kate Bush into her ear to wake her up
    As for eating, lots of snacks, few actual meals. She once said she can survive with just biscuits for a whole day or something similar.
    Not quite like my ex girlfriend who would only eat ICE CUBES some days, but still odd to me.

    It's hard to type someone that young with any certainty, especially since she sounds slightly unstable. I read both @Atari's and @vesstheastralsilky's analysis, and I thought they made sense.

    As for taking a flight to Romania to see her, thanks, but I'll take a rain check until I'm in the area for some other reason.


    I'm not all that sure she's ESI and in any case, I've been having terrible luck with ESI's recently and her instability is not a good sign. I'm fairly unstable myself and probably need a stable homebody to compensate.

    Take a look at my avatar. I spend my time alternating between two worlds; scientific reflection and exploration, and intense, desperate activity.

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    IQ over 150 vesstheastralsilky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plumes View Post
    Coming through as always, Adam <3

    Thanks for your input as well, vess and @Atari. Both ESI and SEI seem good options for her, leaning more towards ESI myself, out of the two. I'd gladly give it over to you Adam, but she's only turned 18. If you don't mind that sort of thing, feel free to book a flight to Romania anytime soon
    I would've said xLI the first time I met her but after the incidents that occurred throughout our relationship, not anymore.
    She has some eating habits that I find ridiculous and sometimes disgusting. She eats anything at any time with no regard to it. And has a messed up sleeping schedule. She sleeps at school and sometimes I'd just play Kate Bush into her ear to wake her up
    As for eating, lots of snacks, few actual meals. She once said she can survive with just biscuits for a whole day or something similar.
    Not quite like my ex girlfriend who would only eat ICE CUBES some days, but still odd to me.
    Your criticisms there are things I traditionally attribute to poor Si and those I've been close to who are EIE. One tests ESFJ the other tested ENFP but they are the same type and remind me of your friend. I have had extremely close Supervisory relations with both for years. One is my sibling, the other a former live-in ex.

    It is due to modesty and humility I did not say 100% certainty.
    ~* astralsilky

    4w5 that morphed into a 3w2 sx/sp
    Cancer Sun, Cancer/Leo Moon, Libra Ascendant, Pluto conjunct Ascendant, Sun conjunct Moon, Saturn conjunct Mercury conjunct MC in 10th, Jupiter handle of bucket pattern squares Nodes, Uranus biquintile Jupiter, Neptune sextile Ascendant, Lilith trine Ascendant, Venus in Gemini/Cancer in 9th house conjunct MC, Venus trine Uranus, Uranus conjunct Spica, Ascendant conjunct SuperGalactic Center, Sun inconjunct Galactic Center.

    Each essence is a separate glass,
    Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
    Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
    A thousand colors, but the Light is One.

    Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet

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    She's been the victim of traditional, conservatory Slavic parenting. Her parents make mine seem like the peak of parenting. We've been talking a lot about shitty parenting because of this, and it sucks. Freud might be a nut, but daddy and mommy issues do account for a lot of the problems and instability that we end up facing growing up. I would really much like to know what she would've been like, had she grown in an environment with encouraging and emotionally-receptive parents and similar values. But so far that's only possible in the realm of the hypothetical. For a lot of people, sadly. Everyone has a shitty dad or a shitty mom nowadays. She is unstable, yes. And her parents don't "believe" in counseling or the likes which just makes it worse.

    Don't worry, you can still come here for the Bram castle.
    @vesstheastralsilky I don't think she could stomach Clue lmao. She does have a sharp edge, sometimes sarcastic when talking to me. I have never seen her like that when talking to other people, though. Reminds me of what I'm like with my parents- A sour apple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plumes View Post
    She's been the victim of traditional, conservatory Slavic parenting. Her parents make mine seem like the peak of parenting. We've been talking a lot about shitty parenting because of this, and it sucks. Freud might be a nut, but daddy and mommy issues do account for a lot of the problems and instability that we end up facing growing up. I would really much like to know what she would've been like, had she grown in an environment with encouraging and emotionally-receptive parents and similar values. But so far that's only possible in the realm of the hypothetical. For a lot of people, sadly. Everyone has a shitty dad or a shitty mom nowadays. She is unstable, yes. And her parents don't "believe" in counseling or the likes which just makes it worse.

    Don't worry, you can still come here for the Bram castle.
    @vesstheastralsilky I don't think she could stomach Clue lmao. She does have a sharp edge, sometimes sarcastic when talking to me. I have never seen her like that when talking to other people, though. Reminds me of what I'm like with my parents- A sour apple.
    What you said about Slavic parenting really rang a bell. My LSE Czech mother is remarkably screwed up, and I attribute it to her own parents, both of whom were immigrants to the States from the area just outside Prague. Her father (my grandfather) was either LIE or SLE (I'm leaning LIE) and her mother (my grandmother) was ESI. The two of them had three children: A female IEI, then a male SEE, then a female LSE (my mother). Women were not valued in that household, so the oldest girl was denigrated in favor of the middle boy who got anything he wanted, and the youngest girl (my mother) was basically ignored by her father, despite her best efforts to be "seen" by him. This may have been the source of my mother's hatred towards her brother and men in general, and of her narcissism.

    Bad parenting can have some deep and long-lasting effects.
    @Plumes, she would benefit from being dropped into an environment with a bunch of aware duals, where she would find that she was both naturally accepted and her contributions were deemed super-valuable. After about three or four years of this, she might grow fully into herself.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 01-02-2019 at 03:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    What you said about Slavic parenting really rang a bell. My LSE Czech mother is remarkably screwed up, and I attribute it to her own parents, both of whom were immigrants to the States from the area just outside Prague. Her father (my grandfather) was either LIE or SLE (I'm leaning LIE) and her mother (my grandmother) was ESI. The two of them had three children: A female IEI, then a male SEE, then a female LSE (my mother). Women were not valued in that household, so the oldest girl was denigrated in favor of the middle boy who got anything he wanted, and the youngest girl (my mother) was basically ignored by her father, despite her best efforts to be "seen" by him. This may have been the source of my mother's hatred towards her brother and men in general, and of her narcissism.

    Bad parenting can have some deep and long-lasting effects.
    @Plumes, she would benefit from being dropped into an environment with a bunch of aware duals, where she would find that she was both naturally accepted and her contributions were deemed super-valuable. After about three or four years of this, she might grow fully into herself.
    Mhm :/
    All I can do for the moment is hope everything will turn out fine for her in the end. Things have been too volatile between us to talk to her any time soon, I can't. It's like treading on eggshells anyway, and I seem to manage to crush every single eggshell. I have faith she'll surround herself with the right people eventually. Especially since she wants to get out of this dump as much as I am and is working just as hard as I, if not even harder.
    4w3 7w6 9w1 so/sx

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    Just make her do a test Feathers. In the same sense she asked you about homework out of the blue. Say to her its for a homework.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atari View Post
    Just make her do a test Feathers.
    I tried. She doesn't want to LOL. She doesn't do anything at my suggestion nowadays. Nearly at all.
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    ):

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    Yeah, If I am to have a chance at convincing her to take a test, I'll have to wait until we're on good terms again.
    4w3 7w6 9w1 so/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Plumes View Post
    I tried. She doesn't want to LOL. She doesn't do anything at my suggestion nowadays. Nearly at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Plumes View Post
    Yeah, If I am to have a chance at convincing her to take a test, I'll have to wait until we're on good terms again.
    Part of the reason I guessed ESI/Benefit is because the interactions that you described reminded me of those I witnessed between an IEI and her ESI employee. At first, everything seemed fine between them. They worked fairly well together and even hung out sometimes after work. But after a couple years, the ESI gave two months notice because she needed more hours than the IEI could give her, then the IEI fired her on the spot for being ungrateful, and the ESI cut her off completely.

    Benefit is when you want to help someone and they want to be around you, but somehow the Beneficiary doesn't "get" the help being offered and suddenly it's personal.
    On the other hand, you still inherently see the person as being fascinating (the Beneficiary) or worthy of your help (the Benefactor), and so Rinse, Repeat.

    This is actually a pretty good proof of the validity of Socionics. Otherwise, why would you keep changing your mind about a person after the same bad things keep happening?

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    Maybe she is IEE
    honest labor needs no master

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    Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Part of the reason I guessed ESI/Benefit is because the interactions that you described reminded me of those I witnessed between an IEI and her ESI employee. At first, everything seemed fine between them. They worked fairly well together and even hung out sometimes after work. But after a couple years, the ESI gave two months notice because she needed more hours than the IEI could give her, then the IEI fired her on the spot for being ungrateful, and the ESI cut her off completely.

    Benefit is when you want to help someone and they want to be around you, but somehow the Beneficiary doesn't "get" the help being offered and suddenly it's personal.
    On the other hand, you still inherently see the person as being fascinating (the Beneficiary) or worthy of your help (the Benefactor), and so Rinse, Repeat.

    This is actually a pretty good proof of the validity of Socionics. Otherwise, why would you keep changing your mind about a person after the same bad things keep happening?
    I've made this thread partly because I did not, could not, figure out what I did wrong during this whole time. It seemed to be a neverending cycle-- Normally I'd just be able to track the tread and mess I've made in a relationship and easily figure out the root of the problem. But there is a certain fog surrounding this situation, and no matter how much I went back I couldn't find a clear reason for why our friendship is the way it is. Instead, I had to retort to telling myself that we are just not meant to be (close) friends due to how different we are.

    ITRs can undoubtedly fail. But it does shed a little bit of light on the "whys" of what happened so far between us. I think I'll always come back to her, after a while. Not sure how willing she is to come back, though. But if she did in April, after all those years, I think she'd do the same, sooner or later.
    ITRs are still better than the fog, though, so I'll take it over just "we're not meant to be friends" any day. IF I actually am IEI after all. : P
    This could or could not be a clue that I could use to find my type, for the reasons mentioned earlier, about the shitty parenting and such. ITRs are not gospel and in this case, knowing what I know about her background and such, I still take them with a grain of salt.


    aaaaaaaah, i'm torn between the world of disbelief and the world of socionics
    4w3 7w6 9w1 so/sx

    "You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it."

  18. #18
    a two horned unicorn renegade Troll Nr 007's Avatar
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    I don't +know. It is true that quasi-identicals tend to think that other one can no him/herself together even though there is a potential. That has been probably mutual experience at least with few LIE's.

    But anyways this sounds like opposing quadra kind of stuff. You obviously put emphasis on demonstrative potentiality/experience and the other person probably sees their dreams as transformative.
    Last edited by Troll Nr 007; 01-02-2019 at 11:12 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I don’t care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

  19. #19
    عالم نفسي thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Seems obviously Fe vulnerable (or at least Fi-valuing introvert) to me. Fi valuing in how she reacted to the idea of an affair and you forgetting her birthday.
    The fact that she didn't think very hard about her future suggests weak Ne. So maybe SLI is most likely.

  20. #20
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    SLI possibly

    Low order of Se reality indicates some wild actions without thought
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  21. #21
    aka Feathers, Penny Dreadful Chrysalis's Avatar
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    @Olimpia.

    Arise from the gravel pit, necromantic monstrosity!
    (The thread, not you, oli. You're a qt).
    4w3 7w6 9w1 so/sx

    "You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it."

  22. #22
    Olimpia's Avatar
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    I'd say ESI 9w8, maybe with 4 in her tritype.
    New Youtube [x] Get Typed! [x]
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    *********** 21-04-19:
    "Looks like a mystic that just arrived to battle and staring out at the battle, ready to unleash"



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