Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 81 to 92 of 92

Thread: Does "tough love" motivation work on you?

  1. #81
    squark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    2,831
    Mentioned
    227 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous Lynx View Post
    I appreciate this distinction, given that this thread is inquiring into "Tough Love" I understand where You're coming from. I would also argue that not all valuable lessons in life are presented benevolently. Often in life, we can grow too comfortable. For some, having their mettle tested is productive, and even for those who find it grating, there can be a reordering of priority and focus. It is true that hot iron can bend to the point of breakage, but cold, unused iron rusts. A ripple is a ripple, and even those making waves can teach us important lessons. Our attitude is as important to our own benefit as that which is seen as done onto us. Growth and clarity sometimes comes from the most unexpected of places.
    Yes, agreed. In my opinion life is about overcoming obstacles, meeting the challenges before you and conquering them. And there's a lot of stuff that is hard, it's not all light and fluffy. Nor is it always presented in a nice package.

    What was that story - it was a story told in a movie or something about the little bird that was cold and yelling, and a cow came by and pooped on it, making it all warm and saving it's life, then a coyote came by, pulled it out of the shit and ate it. With the moral being that not everyone who shits on you is your enemy, or trying to hurt you, and not everyone who pulls you out of the shit is your friend. Anyway, that's true too, that sometimes what looks like help isn't, and what looks like harm isn't. And also sometimes people are trying to toughen you up for your own good. However. . . I don't think that's what was going on in the clip. IMO.

    An example from my own life. . . someone close to me was in an accident, badly hurt and I was taking care of them as they recovered. At first they actually needed me to do everything for them, from cutting their food to wiping their ass, they physically couldn't do it themselves. But, as they grew stronger I made them do more and more things on their own. They complained at me, sometimes begging me to do it, but I knew they could do it for themselves, and I told them so, refusing to do for them what they could do themselves. And they did. Everything I thought they could do, they were able to do without my help, they just needed the push to do it. One time in public I made them open a door for themselves and go through it. When I wouldn't do it, they started begging passersby to help them, until some "kind" person gave in. It wasn't kind. It was holding them back. And sometimes helping someone is just holding them back. But, to those people walking by, I'm sure I looked like some kind of cruel abuser, and man, the looks I got. . . that was sometimes hard to take, their eyes saying, "You horrible woman abusing that poor helpless handicapped person" the accusation in their glares. So yeah, sometimes too you have to look like the bad guy to do the most good. And they did want to be able to do these things themselves - it wasn't like I was trying to make them do something they didn't ultimately want anyway.


    But I've never found it necessary or desirable to tell anyone they were worthless scum, and I don't think that's how you help a person find their own strength. Instead, that's how you make a person dependent on you. Tell them they have to earn their worth from you, and you create someone willing to do anything to please you, or angry enough to "prove you wrong" that they'll do whatever you want in order to dig their way out of that deficit you've created. Tell them they're strong enough without you, and you give them independence and the ability to find strength within themselves they may not have known they had.

  2. #82
    To Stand As The Oak Luminous Lynx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Wilderness
    TIM
    H-EIE-Ni2
    Posts
    272
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thank You for sharing that very personal and illustrative story with us, @squark . I appreciate both Your patience with them, as well as Your methods. You were right to endure their glares, as Yours was the lasting lesson.

    "We live in an age in which there is no heroic death."



    Model A: EIE-Ni2
    -
    Model G: EI

    Quadra Values: Beta
    Dyad:
    /
    DCNH: Harmonizing
    Enneagram: 6w7, 2w1, 8w9
    Instinctual Variant: Sx/So

  3. #83

    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,162
    Mentioned
    221 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Animal View Post
    I think that's a good point, and part of my own problem with some older psychoanalytic writing. It had a tendency to corner human beings into a dead end: "Well, you're fucked in the head, and this is probably why. Good luck sorting yourself out!" That specific example of trauma is one that I actually pulled from my own experience, and I actually found the psychoanalytic explanation helpful, rather than demoralizing. I had tried other approaches like CBT and such that tried to just deal with the habitual thoughts and behaviors at face value, but I found they left something to be desired. When I read about repetition compulsion, I realized there was some inherent logic to the seeming madness: that the reason I was drawn to people who would hurt me in the same way people in the past had hurt me was because there was something I was wanting that I hadn't got in the original situation. That old concept helped me to articulate a personal experience that was there, and actually pointed for me the way out, which was to have a corrective emotional experience that contradicted what I'd previously learned about myself and the world and other people. Newer forms of psychodynamic therapy are much more hopeful than old school psychoanalysis, I think. They get to places that other explanations of people's behavior don't, and can help you feel less alone and weird. Personality typology played that role for me once, but it didn't offer effective tools for deep change and healing like the psychodynamic work did. Actually, FWIW, dynamic therapies like that actually have shown some of the best results for people with BPD, except they tend to call it "complex trauma/C-PTSD", which is less pathologizing.
    Indeed, you may not be able to change the behavior by just knowing what causes that behavior, because what you're trying to do is to not have to do that behavior! In short, you're trying to create a new behavior that is currently unknown to you. And the problem is that you currently don't know how to, because you haven't figured out a way of knowing how. So that may be where the "repetitive compulsion" comes from, which you can only understand in hindsight. But while you were doing that, you may simply had been looking for a solution of a kind.

    I would think that the reason why that "works", is that it may negate the trauma by having been countered by a positive or neutral experience. It seems to be a human thing to just keep expecting the same thing to happen that has happened before. It's understandable that if you had a traumatic experience, then you might want to avoid it, even if it's not entirely rational to do so. Or you might deliberately seek it to be proven wrong. Nevertheless, people can't quite intellectually understand it, but they can only experience it.

    I think the interesting thing about humans is that they try to imagine doing something in the future that has never been done before. So perhaps the answer to the question "Why does the person keep reliving his traumas?", is because of a failure to do something where he would no longer have to live through that trauma, and only because he does not yet know how to. This can't exactly be understood in a strict causal sense of analyzing the past. It's true that the trauma is caused by childhood abuse or whatever. But we'd also have to get at what the person is trying to do in the future, which is presumably to live in peace and not having to live through that trauma.
    Last edited by Singu; 01-03-2019 at 12:31 AM.

  4. #84
    coeruleum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    656
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The only motivation that works is praising someone if they do well and ignoring or correcting someone if they don't do well. No one's a pathetic no-good loser who shouldn't've been born until you call them one. Maybe some people should be called one, but not just for learning a task wrong. Jesus!

    "Did you know some people don't have to get their acts together? Maybe you should consider suicide while your humiliation still hasn't gotten as bad as it could!" ...Now, does that really work? No, it just makes people with no self-esteem do lousy things for you. I don't know why you'd want to be that person. It's more rewarding to have actually competent slaves in my correct opinion, and especially not ones that are likely to off themselves without warning when you need them to lick your boots clean or something.
    “Don't think money does everything or you are going to end up doing everything for money.” ― Voltaire

  5. #85
    FarDraft's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    TIM
    5w6-38 sp/sx
    Posts
    357
    Mentioned
    38 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've actually never been in a tough-love environment. I like the idea of realistic leadership in principle, where your weaknesses aren't hidden and your strengths aren't overstated, but I couldn't tell you my reaction in practice.
    ----- FarDraft, 2019

  6. #86
    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    MACS0647-JD
    TIM
    psyche 4w5 sx/sp
    Posts
    10,676
    Mentioned
    860 Post(s)
    Tagged
    42 Thread(s)

    Default

    Title was misleading. OP was not about tough love at all. I have had an employer claim to love me or the idea of me. He was 30 years older and a creep. I was a teen. It didn't look like the video. More like, "I can make this job easy or it can be hard". I left without collecting my last paycheck. Seriously dude... trying to pull that for a minimum wage job... He thought he could apply pressure to a kid who needed the job. I didn't need it. I found something else soon after with much better pay.

    Bad employers are what made me to decide on self employment.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  7. #87
    ouronis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    TIM
    ref to ptr to self
    Posts
    1,235
    Mentioned
    60 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    I think tough love is one of the best ways to motivate people who are so far afield of success they're in the next state, but for someone whose difficulties are not around being crazy and needing structure, but are around just making mistakes or being indecisive, tough love won't do a whole lot besides encourage you to hem in your thinking.

  8. #88
    LemurianLo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Eagleland
    TIM
    SLI 6w5 sp/so
    Posts
    26
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I didn't watch vid but from past experience it doesn't work on me at all. It'll just really piss me off and make me combative and defensive and make me strongly dislike the person who attempts it on me.

  9. #89
    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Freiburg im Breisgau
    TIM
    ENTj
    Posts
    16,308
    Mentioned
    210 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Most of the environments where there is a lot of tough love aren't healthy in the first place imho

    Anyway I thought about it, I find though love just fine when it's during a task, like a trainer telling you sucked at doing something. I find it kind of weird when it comes to your life in general, like someone saying you will amount to nothing bla bla
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

  10. #90
    Muddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Ancapistan
    Posts
    2,292
    Mentioned
    124 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Bad employers are what made me to decide on self employment.
    What are you doing if I may ask? I'm desperately looking for a way out of being a wage slave to corporations but I'm struggling to find alternatives.

  11. #91
    atlascog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    TIM
    Ni-IEI 641 sp/sx
    Posts
    105
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    It can feel quite unsettling but it actually yields results. I think I need a certain amount of external pressure.
    Last edited by atlascog; 02-16-2019 at 09:07 PM.

  12. #92
    Alomoes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    TIM
    LII INTj
    Posts
    430
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Motivation? No. Teaching? Yes. Why do you think I am a good driver? Why do you think I avoid driving long distances?
    If I stop responding or posting, I've probably taken a break from posting stuff. This really taxes me for whatever reason. Said break could last anywhere from a month to a year. I will likely be back, as socionics is one of my interests. If I'm not on here, you can contact me on steam.

    I got a new computer, so I'll not type on mobile as much any more.

Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •