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Thread: EII-Fi vs. EII-Ne

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    Default EII-Fi vs. EII-Ne

    What are some observable differences between the two types? How is the EII-Ne different from IEE? Also, do these map straightforwardly onto the DCNH system as well (such that EII-Ne would be C type, for instance), or is that not always the case? What are the differences between different EII DCNH subtypes?

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    These are not types. The only "subtypes" theory which has sense is the difference of functional balances in the concrete people. And to some degree the strenght and skills of the concrete functions in them.

    As "EII-Fi" I'll assume a higher expressed or more accentuated type here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Venus Rose View Post
    How is the EII-Ne different from IEE?
    They have more expressed the opposite traits than more accentuated EII. Including the traits related to close types as mirror, so may partly remind them and behave closer to them.

    To distinguish the inner type's nuances is significantly harder than between types. It also rises the chance to mix nontype related with types, as this is lesser seen. I'll try.

    EII-Fi


    EII-Ne


    EII-Fi are a kind of more "boring", while EII-Ne are more "playful".
    The lesser expressed type according to Jung is healthier state and stronger psyche.

    > Also, do these map straightforwardly onto the DCNH system

    DCNH is not Socionics. It's Gulenko's baseless fantasy and technically is another typology. Forget it. Ennegram seems as better addition to Jung, being better developed.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    I think IEX types have similar approach and same applies to EIX. Mirror is just looks at things differently but they share similar interests.

    So IEE talks about things in very loose manner as they want to generate an overall view of things which is similar with IEI when they paint wishful future.

    EIX types tend to have heavier and more rigorous approach on things and they might be even bit gloomier people.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
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    I think those are 2 different subtype systems created by different socionists. I haven't seen any correlation in my experience, but I think Gulenko did some kind of correlation of DCNH with IEs. I choose subtypes in DCNH because of the descriptions basically, not because of the IEs.
    As for EII and IEE, I was reading Strat who talk about the case of an SLI/EII couple who over the years, changed subtypes turning their relation more like a pseudo duality, she was apparently EII-Ne and he SLI-Te, though, relationship didn't improved. So my guess is, subtype change over the years as natural way to adapt to environment needs, to fit superficially or cover up certain roles but without changing the base program. It's logical, since, if you have Fi Ne but you interact with someone who requires more Ne than Fi, you are going to start using more Ne to try to compensate partners needs. Same for any other type. Also from reading other type descriptions, supposedly duals have a time for adaptation when they move over their base (in case they have moved to creative), which is, for example EII becoming more into Fi and LSE more Te. That's real ime.

    I think my EII friend from childhood is an EII-Ne probably due her interaction with his father who's SLI and myself. What differences I can grasp from she and EII-Fi? Well, EII-Fi can look more serious and act more introverted and be depressed ime. This friend is not an IEE. She's an EII-Ne who seems more unaffected due sadness or deep feelings than regular Fi, is more cheeky, hussy and sassy, more spontaneous, have more friends, so externally she's more Ne, though, she doesnt use Ne as an IEE, her base program stills totally Fi Ne (that's a source of frustration and lack of interest for my side over the years).
    Last edited by Ragdoll Lynx; 12-18-2018 at 08:21 PM.

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    @Sol, please find an EII-Ne who is not whispering, I can't analyze VI only I need SI. I am curious what do you associate with EII strong Ne type? you have lots of videos and its your dual, you have to have at least one video.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    please find an EII-Ne who is not whispering
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    IQ over 150 vesstheastralsilky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    I agree with you Sol that she is EII.
    ~* astralsilky

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    @Sol, please find an EII-Ne who is not whispering, I can't analyze VI only I need SI. I am curious what do you associate with EII strong Ne type? you have lots of videos and its your dual, you have to have at least one video.
    What is SI? Sound?

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    There was something that said the EII-Fi doesn't understand jokes or something. I never thought you could be EII and not get jokes. Ne is all about jokes.

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    AMA for feeling if we relate if you identify as creative subtype, as now I'm identifying with it.

    What you do, how, life goal, relationships.

    If you don't want to disclose we can go in private.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    What is SI? Sound?
    Secondary input?
    "Am I butterfly dreaming I'm a man? Or a bowling ball dreaming I'm a plate of sashimi? Never assume what you see and feel is real!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    What is SI? Sound?
    I meant sound identification, by the way I made that up, noone uses that term as far as I know

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    IQ over 150 vesstheastralsilky's Avatar
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    EII-Fi is much more likely than EII-Ne to feel overloaded with tasks and look for helpers (usually not finding them, and feeling like you have to play superhero). They often feel like they are there in the midst of circumstances to bring "healing" of some esoteric sort.

    The EII-Ne is much more of a Dandy, quietly and unobtrusively, glamorously socializing while others seem to readily offer assistance even in basic things and nothing seems too pressing. They are careful not to use ill words of others and stay positive so that others will keep high opinions of them as positive people.

    At least, this is what my experiences have shown me.
    ~* astralsilky

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    Each essence is a separate glass,
    Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
    Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
    A thousand colors, but the Light is One.

    Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet

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    (This is my observation, I may be mistaken)
    EII Fi

    (in comparison to EII Ne)

    Makes a childlike, naive impression... They're more stable and have more consistent moods. Fluffy and warm. Well contained in their little bubble, their presence is smaller, more aware of their own feelings. More forgiving, in my experience, less confrontational. Sweeter, nicer, kinder.



    Not sure if you're into anime, but the girl with the pink hair is a very good EII Fi. Very flower girl-ish, like a fairy, so gentle and kind. The other one is IEI so it's a good quasi id relationship, Fe vs Fi, I believe. The more "stereotypical" EII, what you may think of when you think of the type.

    EII Ne

    (in comparison to EII Fi)

    One easy thing to notice is the more turbulent emotions. Has a broader scale, a bigger presence. They have more of an edge and can appear like IEIs. They are less likely to convey deep emotions, can appear less deep. (not shallow, just less deep than the Fi type). Likely to be less sociable from what I know, I think it has to do with the emphasis of the creative function making the individual more turbulent.



    I really can't talk about EII and not bring up this character. Shinji is EII Ne. This character is a near perfect representation of EII, great character.

    I have heard people say that creative subtype resembles mirror type, I don't think that's true. EII Ne doesn't really resemble IEE, imo they more closely resemble IEI. IEE is too different, and the defining trait of both quasi ids is 4D Fi/Ni.

    Hope this was of some use. ^^
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    A good way of looking at it would be emotional turbulence. Creative subtype of rational feelers are more emotional, more turbulent, less outwardly stable. Ofc, the person may be kind, empathetic, etc. There's also less 'visible' feeling, if that makes sense. Creative subtype is also more 'risky' and more 'in your face' more dramatic, confrontational, etc.
    @VenusRose if you're trying to determine your subtype, you come across as the creative subtype, imo.

    DCNH doesn't factor into this. I believe DCNH is more related to how a person experiences their unconscious functions. I will need to confirm that.
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    I am under stress @Pano Lou I wouldn’t use my presence on here to determine anything. I come across more as Fi subtype from what you have posted, though I can’t really relate to either, maybe I have no subtype
    I can’t relate to others’ explanation of Ne subtype either.

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    IQ over 150 vesstheastralsilky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    I can’t relate to others’ explanation of Ne subtype either.
    By contrast, the Beta NFs tend to generally be highly emotional, caring and emotionally caretaking types as are the Alpha SFs toward their loved ones ...
    ~* astralsilky

    4w5 that morphed into a 3w2 sx/sp
    Cancer Sun, Cancer/Leo Moon, Libra Ascendant, Pluto conjunct Ascendant, Sun conjunct Moon, Saturn conjunct Mercury conjunct MC in 10th, Jupiter handle of bucket pattern squares Nodes, Uranus biquintile Jupiter, Neptune sextile Ascendant, Lilith trine Ascendant, Venus in Gemini/Cancer in 9th house conjunct MC, Venus trine Uranus, Uranus conjunct Spica, Ascendant conjunct SuperGalactic Center, Sun inconjunct Galactic Center.

    Each essence is a separate glass,
    Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
    Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
    A thousand colors, but the Light is One.

    Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet

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    Haikus VenusRose's Avatar
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    ....
    I am not Beta NF, @vesstheastralsilky
    And yeah, I don’t relate to that description either...

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    I am under stress @Pano Lou I wouldn’t use my presence on here to determine anything. I come across more as Fi subtype from what you have posted, though I can’t really relate to either, maybe I have no subtype
    I can’t relate to others’ explanation of Ne subtype either.
    That is fine, I don't expect to know you well enough to type you 100%. I just mentioned my impression. Everything I've written is in comparison to each other. When I say creative subtype is more risky, I mean it as in, risky compared to the dominant subtype and not risky how an Se base type might be. I can't really explain it in better terms than emotional turbulence. Ultimately, it depends on what you relate more to.

    I'll see if I can come up with non anime examples. If I run into anything, I'll post it here
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    That is fine, I don't expect to know you well enough to type you 100%. I just mentioned my impression. Everything I've written is in comparison to each other. When I say creative subtype is more risky, I mean it as in, risky compared to the dominant subtype and not risky how an Se base type might be. I can't really explain it in better terms than emotional turbulence. Ultimately, it depends on what you relate more to.

    I'll see if I can come up with non anime examples. If I run into anything, I'll post it here
    I am this:

    Makes a childlike, naive impression... They're more stable and have more consistent moods. Fluffy and warm. Well contained in their little bubble, their presence is smaller, more aware of their own feelings. More forgiving, in my experience, less confrontational. Sweeter, nicer, kinder.
    I can't really imagine an EII who is not forgiving
    Abuse has altered my behavior on here
    I have even given the impression of being more naive than other EIIs, among other things, to this one friend. I did not want that to be apparent on here due to my experience with abuse in such communities. I was afraid if that was apparent I would be abused again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    Not sure if you're into anime, but the girl with the pink hair is a very good EII Fi. Very flower girl-ish, like a fairy, so gentle and kind. The other one is IEI so it's a good quasi id relationship, Fe vs Fi, I believe. The more "stereotypical" EII, what you may think of when you think of the type.
    If you keep citing Madoka and Persona characters I may have a new favorite poster on this site.
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    I think at some point, all the NFs start resembling one another. This is Madoka's song BTW. I used to dislike Fi because of my own biases, but I overcame them. I really love EIIs, even though we clash over a lot of things. I don't understand how Fi is able to die for its principles, but I appreciate it, I understand the depth and intensity of it, on that level, I can relate. This is Madoka's song:

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=GZ77rATP3x8

    I have reached a point where I can tell whether a type is Fe or Fi ego based on what areas they focus on when they talk about things. I know I value Fe for that reason, and Rose doesn't strike me as an Fe type at all. I don't know why people would make that connection.
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss View Post
    If you keep citing Madoka and Persona characters I may have a new favorite poster on this site.
    I'm going to make a series of called, "Type portraits from anime" and make detailed Socionics portraits of types Lmao
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    I'm going to make a series of called, "Type portraits from anime" and make detailed Socionics portraits of types Lmao
    Do it lmao this is obviously the telos of internet typology.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    I am this:



    I can't really imagine an EII who is not forgiving
    Abuse has altered my behavior on here
    I have even given the impression of being more naive than other EIIs, among other things, to this one friend. I did not want that to be apparent on here due to my experience with abuse in such communities. I was afraid if that was apparent I would be abused again.
    I think you are a lot stronger than you appear to be, and I appreciate that. Abuse sucks, I know, I am a survivor myself. *hugs*
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post

    I have reached a point where I can tell whether a type is Fe or Fi ego based on what areas they focus on when they talk about things. I know I value Fe for that reason, and Rose doesn't strike me as an Fe type at all. I don't know why people would make that connection.
    They do have a different focus, that's true. Despite having both those elements strong.
    My mother may be SEI, and she clearly values but her Fi is strong also, it's just more indirect, implied, in the background.
    Some SFs I have observed may have the 'naivete' stereotypically associated with Delta NFs.
    But maybe that's not type related...im not sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    They do have a different focus, that's true. Despite having both those elements strong.
    My mother may be SEI, and she clearly values but her Fi is strong also, it's just more indirect, implied, in the background.
    Some SFs I have observed may have the 'naivete' stereotypically associated with Delta NFs.
    But maybe that's not type related...im not sure.

    At some point, all NFs look similar. They have the NF temperament, if that makes sense. Same goes for SFs. So superficial analysis of types isn't good. Moreover, irrational types have the ability to transmute Fe to Fi (for IxEs) and Fi to Fe (for xEIs) I think this is for the benefit of their duals. I actually think that's the main function of the demonstrative... Because it's your duals PoLR, you learn to transmute it, and feed it to your duals HA. Demonstrative Ni, for you would mean, if I'm right, you have the ability to transmute Ni information to Ne and feed it to the LSE... Do you think that is true?

    I hate one sentence typings and intuitive analysis. It's garbage. Like Sol saying that violence and dark themes are not Si... But I hate those kinds of themes. I only ever use violence in my writing for catharsis, I can't stand gore or gross out. A lot of my collages too, people look at them and say "that's good Si." It took me a long time to remove a lot of misinformation from my mind.

    For example, look at my aesthetic:



    Yes, Si is comfort seeking, but it doesn't mean it's not capable of destroying comfort. Neither does it imply that Se hates comfort and are all thrill seekers. That's an extremely shallow way to type, I believe. A lot of things are misconstrued... xIE can't relax ≠ they're always running around like headless chickens. If someone wants to wrap me up in a blanket on a cold night and feed me hot cocoa, I'm glad to receive. Then terms like victim/agressor and childlike/caregiver are also misunderstood... And, people are perfectly capable of transmuting aesthetics, from Se to Si and vice versa.

    TL; DR one sentence typings are bad and I like to rant lol
    .
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    Quote Originally Posted by VenusRose View Post
    What are some observable differences between the two types? How is the EII-Ne different from IEE? Also, do these map straightforwardly onto the DCNH system as well (such that EII-Ne would be C type, for instance), or is that not always the case? What are the differences between different EII DCNH subtypes?
    Two-subtype model is variously cast as dominant / second function, inert / contact, accepting / producing, with the difference between terminologies coming down to preference. These subtypes are thought to reflect something innate and unchanging, not unlike the basic type. It is not clear what the real differences are between the two subtypes, but they are useful for diagnosis of types because otherwise it wouldn't be clear how such outwardly different people come to be categorized under one label.

    DCNH is an entirely separate theory, with the subtypes being subject to change over the course of a person's life. Such changes are infrequent, so DCNH tends to remain stable over long periods of time. EII-contact can present in any DCNH type, as can EII-inert (no correlation).

    EII-contact has a tendency to want to tell stories, relate various phenomena, and explain things about the broader world to others. Often has a stocky build, may gesticulate in conversation. EII-inert is less interested in sharing, more mindful of responsibilities. Will present everything in a way that accommodates his interlocutor to the greatest extent possible. More smooth and elegant movements.

  29. #29

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    EII-contact mean EII-Ne in two subtype model ?

    edit : read about inert/contact on wikisocion, the response seem yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by myresearch View Post
    I meant sound identification, by the way I made that up, noone uses that term as far as I know
    Lol I figured, I was like there's no way they have VI AND SI lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky View Post
    EII-Fi is much more likely than EII-Ne to feel overloaded with tasks and look for helpers (usually not finding them, and feeling like you have to play superhero). They often feel like they are there in the midst of circumstances to bring "healing" of some esoteric sort.

    The EII-Ne is much more of a Dandy, quietly and unobtrusively, glamorously socializing while others seem to readily offer assistance even in basic things and nothing seems too pressing. They are careful not to use ill words of others and stay positive so that others will keep high opinions of them as positive people.

    At least, this is what my experiences have shown me.

    Based off that I'm EII-Ne.

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