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Thread: Delta NFs and their association with being SJWs- accurate or bad stereotype?

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    Default Delta NFs and their association with being SJWs- accurate or bad stereotype?

    Title. If not, is there anything else you think correlates with SJW behavior in socionics or enneagram?

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    The problem of a stereotype is that generally, it represent a wanabee version of another character wich can easily made fun of due to the percieved lack of personnality induced by the percieved desire to imitate.

    The REAL SJW that people can follow sometime for thousands years are ENFJ.

    Wannabee SJW are INFJ (and sometime unheathy ESTJ or super unhealthy ENFP).

    So you can accuse delta NF to be SJW (as our current culture see it, I even don't add "wannabee")
    And beta NF to be the ultimate SJW of humanity but in an actual "usefull" way.

    Dunno which place is the better one.

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    The problem is that you have a number of conflicting type tendencies associated with "SJWism".

    One of the most fundamental is that you shouldn't be "offensive" to minority or disadvantaged people - making racist jokes is no longer ok, etc. It's reasonable to associate this with Fi, and perhaps FiSi more than FiSe since it's about avoiding negativity. The types that are most associated with offending others and not caring about it are ILE and SLE aka Fi PoLR. "Safe spaces" might be FiSi, or FeSi.

    But then you have the aspect that, for many of its louder proponents it's not just about not offending people but actually seeking "Social Justice" in a Neo-Marxist kind of way, men being the oppressors, needing to "destroy the patriarchy", etc. This side is very much Beta.

    Overall, I find that if you look at who tends to be "SJW" in practice, and taking all the sides into account, it's not so much about quadras, it's about ethics (in the socionics sense). I also find that the types that tend to speak out against it or have no use for it in the first place are more likely to be logical types.

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    Femen was founded by a dude. Was his idea to train them to yell, be topless and make subversive political manifestations. He picked up and directed personally all the girls, gave the instructions, wrote the slogans and chose the places and causes to appear. So type him and you are going to get close to type the movement.


    Thats pretty much the base "inspiration" of SJWs.
    Last edited by Ragdoll Cat; 12-15-2018 at 12:40 PM.

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    Definitely Intuitive types I'd say. Intuitive types are more likely than Sensing types to be delusional and angry about essentially nothing. Ethical types too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cicio View Post
    Definitely Intuitive types I'd say. Intuitive types are more likely than Sensing types to be delusional and angry about essentially nothing. Ethical types too.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Tbh being an sjw is probably not connected to any Socionics factor. Any type in any quadra can profess anything.

    Democrats can be just as authoritarian as aristocrats. Tyranny by the majority and tyranny by the minority are both still tyranny.

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    Delta NFs have no more tendencies to become SJWs than other types; the only uniqueness of Delta NFs would lie in their approach toward being SJWs. Perhaps one may draw a false conclusion simply because both types can often appear somewhat preachy and or holier-than-thou. Past influences and experiences create SJWs - not type.

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    SJWs probably got started by some NFs (people who love to speak for the marginalized) but now it's taking on a more normal Fe sort of quality in the US. Once things get down to alpha FJs it becomes popularized (at least in the US). Being super duper tolerant and "open-minded" and protective of any victimized marginalized group and being inclusive about everything is being coming more of an Fe value and shaping American culture to the point where many younger folks (millennial) have a little SJW in them.

    You have liberal delta NFs and conservative delta NFs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    The problem is that you have a number of conflicting type tendencies associated with "SJWism".

    One of the most fundamental is that you shouldn't be "offensive" to minority or disadvantaged people - making racist jokes is no longer ok, etc. It's reasonable to associate this with Fi, and perhaps FiSi more than FiSe since it's about avoiding negativity. The types that are most associated with offending others and not caring about it are ILE and SLE aka Fi PoLR. "Safe spaces" might be FiSi, or FeSi.

    But then you have the aspect that, for many of its louder proponents it's not just about not offending people but actually seeking "Social Justice" in a Neo-Marxist kind of way, men being the oppressors, needing to "destroy the patriarchy", etc. This side is very much Beta.

    Overall, I find that if you look at who tends to be "SJW" in practice, and taking all the sides into account, it's not so much about quadras, it's about ethics (in the socionics sense). I also find that the types that tend to speak out against it or have no use for it in the first place are more likely to be logical types.
    I tend to agree with this. The delta NFs and alpha SFs I know tend to prefer harmony (FeSi) or protect those they feel as disadvantaged (FiSi). So whenever I say something offensive, the delta NFs scold me, politely of course, and the alpha SFs tend to try to comfort the person I offended.

    Beta NFs, on the other hand, tend to be more big-picture minded, perhaps because they are intuitive and have Fe, which is focused on emotional expression and the emotions of a larger group. That fact seems to lead them to create problems where there are none, essentially fighting a non-existing battle or taking things out of proportion. Their lack of Te and Se leaves them disconnected from reality. I believe my mother is beta NF, probably EIE, and she tends to take the most minor of criticisms out of proportion, which is a problem since I can be very honest. I've had to learn to be more tactful in front of people like herself since it's not worth destroying a relationship to make a blunt point, in most circumstances.
    ----- FarDraft, 2019

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    Not sure what qualifies as SJW for you. But speaking for myself, I believe that discrimination is a real issue in terms of race, religion, nationality, sex, etc. and needs to be called out when it happens.
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    Yes. Accurate.

    Pretty much what thehotelambush said: the "Destroy the Patriarchy" ones tend to be Betas and the "safe spaces" and "that's offensive" tend to be Deltas.

    SJWism as a whole is the result of the Humanist (NF) club.
    Last edited by Bastard; 12-16-2018 at 04:14 AM. Reason: Clarification.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taknamay View Post
    Not sure what qualifies as SJW for you. But speaking for myself, I believe that discrimination is a real issue in terms of race, religion, nationality, sex, etc. and needs to be called out when it happens.

    That doesn't make you an SJW don't worry. That just makes you a reasonable & considerate sounding person and probably a liberal.

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    From what I observed the "SJW" thing probably show up differently for each Quadra. Any type can exhibit fanaticism really, though some more than others for sure.

    I would say though that these stereotypical "SJW groups" are a mix between Betas and Deltas (especially the NFs). Despite their vastly different values the NFs in these two quadras actually could work together. As long as Betas (namely EIEs) don't start going full on authoritarian about the group and the ideology they preach and Deltas let the Betas lead and boss them around (at least superficially) these types aren't that hard to find working together.

    So naturally a mixture of the two quadra values are to be expected, otherwise the Betas will lose support and look weak (something that especially the EIE with all the dramatic fanfare is deeply insecure about) and the Deltas will lose the opportunity to make large social experiments (something that the IEE could find amusing and the EII useful), in some way they both have something to gain so they could hide the irritation. The IEI however might be left out in the struggle as they are an introverted involutory asking type.

    Actually thinking about it I wonder what would happen when a lot of these NFs are older and ready to marry their duals, perhaps at that point the quadras will be finally separated and the "SJW" groups will lose their steam. Beta and Delta STs (namely LSI and LSE, maybe SLI to a lesser extent) are probably gonna keep a grip on their duals (and keep their duals away from the STs' superego and conflictor) and the NFs themselves through being with their duals will probably reevaluate some of their life goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Title. If not, is there anything else you think correlates with SJW behavior in socionics or enneagram?
    Having lived in an SJW-central, I would say that there is something to this, however, you'll find a lot more IEEs than EIIs among the SJW crowd. In terms of types, this could be because IEE is an extraverted, "obstinate" i.e. "interest-defending" type with a Se-role which they aren't afraid to show, while the EII is an introverted, "yielding" type by Renin with a Se-PoLR. In general, I think obstinate extraverts, which are all four of the ExFx types, are more likely to ardently take up some social cause and broadcast themselves so that they are heard, especially if the social instinct is involved.

    However, those would be general trends and other types could take up social causes.

    The girl in this video, for instance, sounds like an ESTj:


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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    The problem is that you have a number of conflicting type tendencies associated with "SJWism".

    One of the most fundamental is that you shouldn't be "offensive" to minority or disadvantaged people - making racist jokes is no longer ok, etc. It's reasonable to associate this with Fi, and perhaps FiSi more than FiSe since it's about avoiding negativity. The types that are most associated with offending others and not caring about it are ILE and SLE aka Fi PoLR. "Safe spaces" might be FiSi, or FeSi.

    But then you have the aspect that, for many of its louder proponents it's not just about not offending people but actually seeking "Social Justice" in a Neo-Marxist kind of way, men being the oppressors, needing to "destroy the patriarchy", etc. This side is very much Beta.

    Overall, I find that if you look at who tends to be "SJW" in practice, and taking all the sides into account, it's not so much about quadras, it's about ethics (in the socionics sense). I also find that the types that tend to speak out against it or have no use for it in the first place are more likely to be logical types.
    I think that about sums it up really

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    Fe is by a theoretical basis collectivist in nature - therefore the stereotype is probably better suited (as far as a stereotype has that pleasure) for Fe ego types.
    When the heavens above did not exist,
    And earth beneath had not come into being —
    There was Apsû, the first in order, their begetter,
    And demiurge Tia-mat, who gave birth to them all;
    They had mingled their waters together
    Before meadow-land had coalesced and reed-bed was to he found —
    When not one of the gods had been formed
    Or had come into being, when no destinies had been decreed,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muddy View Post
    Title. If not, is there anything else you think correlates with SJW behavior in socionics or enneagram?
    Anecdotally, I have seen a correlation between a strong social instinct and political activism in general, but this impulse may manifest in a variety of ways. I have not seen any correlation between politics and Socionics - although I do think the Beta NF erotic style "put up a front, get him to chase me down", etc, is reflected in the tiresome, contradictory behaviour of many contemporary SJWs and feminists. Enneagram 4s, 6s and 8s (reactive types) also seem to be overrepresented, if to a lesser extent.

    SJWs are primarily the product of a poor attachment to masculine authority figures early in their lives - whether this abuse/neglect occurs at the hand of a father, male teacher, or first boyfriend. Reactionary right-wing views are often created in the same way, with childhood abuse or neglect by the feminine. It is important to understand that these people have been hurt in the past, and they are mostly lost children who are looking for a home.
    Last edited by Spermatozoa; 07-20-2019 at 03:50 AM.

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    Not socionics related.

    EIIs who don't care about anything but their general well being and imaginary worlds, don't like protest.
    Delta NFS who become activists.
    EIIs of all political spectrums.

    EIIs in particular seem ....... not prone to spotlight but may be administratively or creatively supportive.
    IEEs can be passionate and champion causes in a more general way,

    but I think enneagram, instincts, and APTI have a lot more to do with this than socionics.


    That said I'm sure the Queen, Dr Quinn Medicine Woman, would be written off as some kind of SJW, 150 years after her time of helping the small frontier town of colorado springs.
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Not socionics related.

    EIIs who don't care about anything but their general well being and imaginary worlds, don't like protest.
    Delta NFS who become activists.
    EIIs of all political spectrums.

    EIIs in particular seem ....... not prone to spotlight but may be administratively or creatively supportive.
    IEEs can be passionate and champion causes in a more general way,

    but I think enneagram, instincts, and APTI have a lot more to do with this than socionics.


    That said I'm sure the Queen, Dr Quinn Medicine Woman, would be written off as some kind of SJW, 150 years after her time of helping the small frontier town of colorado springs.
    There are other EIIs besides this?

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