Thoughts on Jordan Peterson

[marooned]

unfortunately identity politics are simply a thing. people vote in the interests of their own groups often because that's how they gain more liberties and resources.

i'm not an identity expert. but i'm a white american, and it's true that for much of my life i was largely untroubled by identity politics in a way because the white identity has so much power in US which makes whites the one group who don't have to think about being a race unless of course confronted with the subject of racial inequality... i did experience pain under other identities that aren't dominant because of how they're treated, but i didn't see it in an identity politics way. i preferred to see people as individuals--the problem is... that i am predisposed to be biased towards the dominant groups (e.g. whites) without intending to... i have white privilege which creates blindness...

so the idea is to all be individuals but the reality in the US shows that hasn't been working. some groups have power, others have less and are subordinated, largely because of the way the US organized its hierarchies historically. it deliberately oppressed people of color (and other groups) in ways that continue to harm those groups today. for instance, on average black americans earn way less money than white americans, live in more toxic environments, own fewer houses, have less access to medical care and healthy food, are more likely to be incarcerated for minor offenses, are more likely to be shot by police, it goes on and on. it was by design and it still hasn't been fixed. white americans by and large have more opportunities than black americans (which isn't to say some white people don't have it bad), and can't be victims of racism in the way black americans can because all the structures in society largely favor white people > others.

whites can get confused and conflate identities ime. for instance, they can confuse poor class identity with their racial identity if they were treated as "white trash." but ime, when examined deeply one finds all the resentment is actually centered around the class identity. people are "white trash" because the dominant identity group in society relative to them, the well-off whites, see them as unworthy, hate them for being poor and there's a narrative it's all on personal responsibility (society couldn't have anything to do with it...). thus it was the attitudes of the well-off whites that branded poor whites with a derogatory label based on their class status, which they use(d) to justify voting against social services and medical care for them. "white trash" is a distinction from upper class whites to lower class whites, iow. there's nothing racist about it (it's implicit in the term that whites are the dominant group in society, but these ones are called out as exceptions, as less worthy of their special "whiteness").

anyway, despite not thinking about things in an identity politics way until the last 7 years or so, still i voted in what i interpret to be the interests of my group, which seems to be defined as the poor/working class. i have, iow, a political identity whether i want one or not. and being aware of that also means being aware that much of my self-defined group isn't white, and the poverty they face has racial ties and causes that i don't suffer due to my white priv. once roe was struck down, my female identity became inflamed, the loss of federally recognized rights to my own body and health was felt in a deep and terrible way i've actually never experienced before (i have a lot of dominant identities that haven't been under threat like that before - white, heterosexual, cis-gender - i've been too privileged to feel this before iow). when people feel an existential threat to one of their identities (e.g. race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, class, immigrant, etc.) that our culture differentiates us by, they react, they engage in identity politics to gain or regain their rights.

in states like FL if teachers can't acknowledge to their classrooms that homosexual and transgender people and students exist, that is an example of the state (which favors the heterosexual and cis-gendered) attacking a disempowered identity group. again, identity politics are employed because not every group is under attack, and not under attack to the same degree. laws to cut out teaching history that would reveal our racist past in school are another attack, because it's trying to preserve the false worldview that the US isn't still suffering from massive racial inequality (to deny history) in order to maintain the white dominance in the nation (so that attacks non-white identities). when the government erodes the separation of church and state to push christian dominion on americans, that is an attack on all non-christian identities. politics unfortunately is identity politics, and people feel these things instinctively and react to them, no matter what they call it, and whether they want to or not.

an identity is justly defended and fought for when it is against being subordinated by a dominant identity. an identity is not justly defended and fought for when it is to subordinate other identities or gain dominion over other groups. aggrieved whites who fear the loss of white power and are voting based on that are practicing identity politics of the unjust kind (whites are the dominant racial group in the US). aggrieved cis-gender people who are voting to stop transgender rights, are practicing identity politics of the unjust kind (cis-gender people are dominant in the US, and Canada). which means... jordan peterson is practicing identity politics (unjustly), as he's obsessed with transgender people even going after them, like with elliot page. he advocates against their rights, he attacks individuals in the group, he doesn't respect their right to exist as they are, he doesn't consider transgender people valid. this is like the worst practice of identity politics there is. and what is he defending? the dominance of cis-gender people over transgender people.

and if one wants equality in society, that is just... going in the wrong direction. the US for instance has been growing its aggrieved dominant identity groups, and they are pushing US to the end of democracy. their positions are illegitimate. dominant groups have power, they have their rights, all they can fight for against the other groups is to block their struggle for equality or put them down even more. and to gain that increasing dominion over everyone else they would have to tear down the constitution of the US, and end democracy. they go that extreme because they are already empowered, it's just... it's not enough power apparently.

ps. i don't know what else jordan peterson has done, but i'm sure there's more!

Long eta: aaaaah and my saying there's nothing racist about "white trash" reflects again my white privilege. there effing IS something racist about it in that it declares white supremacy. I mean the white trash are inferior but at least they are "white."

kill me now lol. like do you see how hard this is-- white priv and the blinders are endless

And PS again I'm sorry this isn't personal it's about power. White ppl in US have more power. Don't internalize it. Just try to help the disadvantaged. And if you are disadvantaged based on class... That's why I vote left. They are the only ones fighting for people's rights. If you don't trust them off zero sum game fear mongering, just remember cori bush parked herself outside to defend ppl from being evicted bc she had been homeless before. Poor ppl of all stripes understand.

[End]

We dissident conservatives call his kind a "Parade Jumper". His role is to jump out in front of any right-wing group, slogan, cause, etc. and corral it back into Con Inc.'s line of "acceptable" dissent. That is, dissent that doesn't actually do a damn thing to stop or otherwise hinder the agenda of the elites who rule over us.

It's an imminently recognizable pattern once you realize it. Today's mainline and respectable "Conservative" is simply what a mainline and respectable "Liberal" was 10-20 years ago. Since Liberalism keeps on swimming leftward (to now demonstrably and obviously absurd extremes) it drags the respectable "Conservatives" along for the ride. Hence the joke of "The Conservative Case for X" with X being the current Liberal cause of the day. You mark my words there will be such an article about Transgenderism and Self-Muti *cough* "Gender Reassignment Surgery" any day now if it hasn't been penned already in some (for now) obscure rag. I'd bet my left nut there already is one for Abortion given how long that topic has been on deck and it probably made its way onto a "respectable" rag that likes of other Parade Jumpers like Rush Limbaugh or Ben Shapiro would regularly quote. In regards to the former well, one not speak ill of the dead. Rush is dead. And that is good.

Truly effective dissent, or even the potential for it, must be corralled, snuffed out, or otherwise rendered ineffectual the instant it pops up or else *gasp* something might actually change!

This is also why he and his ilk won't dare mention the works of dissident conservative creatives. If you haven't followed or known of me before how many know of things like Arkahven comics? How about a literal slew of authors past and present? What of the works of John C. Wright, Kit Sun Cheah, Brian Niemeier, Jason Anspach and Nick Cole (they're almost breaking through to the mainstream because they targeted a criminally underserved yet very large market they themselves are a part of), Adam Lane Smith, Jon Del Arozz, and that's just "authors" I'm listing. I'm an aspiring one myself so of course I know of them (and sadly have failed to hear of others who deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as they because of this demonic problem). There are the greats of the now forgotten "Pulp" era (1910's to 1950's) like A. Merritt, Jack Vance, Lovecraft, and Robert E. Howard that they loudly and proudly proclaim to be their inspiration as well. Hell, I'd even count Michael Moorcock among them even if he was a bit late to the party. Can't tell me "Elric of Melnibone" doesn't pulse with the same energy and he's about as radical a leftist as you can get without going into full SJW insanity.

The enemy knows what I know. I'll say it again for those who don't know already. The flow of ideas/opinions/policy is thus. Religion>Culture>Politics. If you control the preceding realm you dictate all that comes after it. Culture, in this case, dictates political policy. Hence why the parade jumpers never mention dissident artists. Artists occupy the cultural realm. Make them and their works popular and in a decade hence the political policy will more closely align with their own vision. In this example, popularize conservative artists and in a decade's time the Overton Window will have shifted a notch or two to the "right" as it were.

I'll buy any given "conservative" isn't controlled opposition the instant they start pushing names I'm familiar with and behind in the Conservative cultural sphere. Until Peterson does he's controlled opposition in league with the Great Enemy no matter how good of a game he otherwise talks. Talk is cheap. Talk for otherwise obscure creators is likewise cheap as all fuck. That the likes of him doesn't even bother is telling in all the worst ways from my end. Fuck him. He's sold his soul to the lord of this world. He will find that he made a most grave and terrible mistake far too late I fear...

[End]

Omg if you wanna hurt ppl end just stop. If you come from worse background than me please stop. Just fucking stop. I hope you aren't like that liar betrayer of humanity tucker Carlson, pls tell me you aren't that stupid! You aren't a wasp, do you get what's happening?!

My fam heritage was Catholic and this nation and it's class be effed them over. We are immigrants. Join them or for for the current ones it's as simple as that. I would never had been born. Stop hurting immigrants.

Stop hurting them for melanin just let people be!

PS I'm a drunk moron but I mean it I need ppl to be free I need these systems that prevent that overcome. It's fucking human rights

These are our fucking ppl who fought for everything to get here. They are fucking Americans. Fucking deal with it.

I don't accept disavowing citizenship. You have to let people live you have to accept how they change culture. These are our fucking ppl. Fight for them.

I would let people be, but sadly others won't let me be. It's no secret that I am no liberal and y'know what? I wouldn't care if liberals just went off and did their thing while I went and did mine. The big problem is that they've launched themselves into a dark crusade that labels anyone to the right of Mao or Stalin as the Devil Incarnate and seeks to treat them accordingly. My "people" wouldn't denounce me as a devil and, not in hushed whispers or in jest, wish people like me would die nice and slow and/or end up what amounts to a chattel slave because "istaphobes" deserve no better. As if me pointing out that people like to live around people who look, sound, and think like them and we should probably let that happen somehow makes me best buddies with the funny mustache man and an avid fan of his political and cultural policies.

I am more than content to let people have their little spots of land that they govern as they see fit. Hans Hermann Hoppe's "Covenant Communities" is the best way forward for everyone and hell, America is a big country and most of it is uninhabited. Lots of room for everyone to set up their own little shop, build a sturdy fence, and leave everyone else be. Sadly the PTB don't want that. Neither do most people in general. The temptation of "Empire" is too much for most people to pass up. If people could just resist the urge to rule over others who aren't them and don't want to be them with a jackboot over the other's throat metaphorically speaking when given the opportunity we'd already be living in a quasi-utopia. Human nature and original sin are sadly what they are and so here we stand in the shit.

There is a way around that problem, but most don't want to hear it. Hell, the PTB least of all. There is one man they hate above all. One faith they'll do anything to prevent regaining cultural hegemony in all the spheres that actually matter both here and anywhere else. They will fail in this endeavor and are already failing, but they won't stop trying. Their master won't allow them to.

P.S. Tucker Carlson is also a parade jumper. Again, the tell is him not pushing conservative artists. If he seriously wanted the kinds of things he wants he'd fight a cultural or religious battle over a mere political one. The biggest hurdle most creatives face is a little something called discoverability. See, most people don't "search" for their entertainment. You must cram it down their throat somehow. Have it put before the "normie" in a way that piques his/her interest or otherwise force feed it to them. For example, you'd put it on a TV network they regularly watch, into a big movie theater, or in a genre of fiction they like to read a lot like "Romance" or something. This is why the house of mouse buys major IPs over creating new ones. It's way easier to just co-opt an existing fanbase over creating a new one. Why? Because normies don't search for their entertainment.

Tucker? With his audience? Push a few of the people I just mentioned, and they'd sell enough to make their work into a competently produced movie or TV show (lots of good actors out there who Hollywood won't hire because they won't recite the woke litanies). Do that for a few and they'd have enough cash to set up their own streaming service to distribute it. This would start up a chain reaction that'd enable us to fork and replace woke entertainment and all its BS and, by extension, actually start having lasting effective action in the political sphere. Then they finally would go broke for getting woke. They know this. He knows this. Hence why he ain't doing it. He's not serious. None of the "mainstream" conservatives are.

It's like I said elsewhere. They are paid to be the Washington Generals to the Left's Harlem Globetrotters. They are paid to lose on purpose and will never stop doing so. Realizing this truth is critical if you want to understand what's really going on here in the West and the rest of the world.

Also, woke entertainment just plain sucks ass through a coffee straw. Again, give a book by the people I mentioned a read. A paragraph or two might offend, but they are competently written with fleshed out and developed characters with complex motivations and personalities. Characters for which things like sexual orientation, faith, and ethnicity are just things they happen to be over a thing they "are" that they gotta shove in your face every other sentence. I want "good" culture y'see. What we got right now ain't good from an artistic or aesthetic standpoint. It drags us down. I'd rather lift people up.

[Manatroid92]

I would let people be, but sadly others won't let me be. It's no secret that I am no liberal and y'know what? I wouldn't care if liberals just went off and did their thing while I went and did mine. The big problem is that they've launched themselves into a dark crusade that labels anyone to the right of Mao or Stalin as the Devil Incarnate and seeks to treat them accordingly. My "people" wouldn't denounce me as a devil and, not in hushed whispers or in jest, wish people like me would die nice and slow and/or end up what amounts to a chattel slave because "istaphobes" deserve no better. As if me pointing out that people like to live around people who look, sound, and think like them and we should probably let that happen somehow makes me best buddies with the funny mustache man and an avid fan of his political and cultural policies.

I am more than content to let people have their little spots of land that they govern as they see fit. Hans Hermann Hoppe's "Covenant Communities" is the best way forward for everyone and hell, America is a big country and most of it is uninhabited. Lots of room for everyone to set up their own little shop, build a sturdy fence, and leave everyone else be. Sadly the PTB don't want that. Neither do most people in general. The temptation of "Empire" is too much for most people to pass up. If people could just resist the urge to rule over others who aren't them and don't want to be them with a jackboot over the other's throat metaphorically speaking when given the opportunity we'd already be living in a quasi-utopia. Human nature and original sin are sadly what they are and so here we stand in the shit.

There is a way around that problem, but most don't want to hear it. Hell, the PTB least of all. There is one man they hate above all. One faith they'll do anything to prevent regaining cultural hegemony in all the spheres that actually matter both here and anywhere else. They will fail in this endeavor and are already failing, but they won't stop trying. Their master won't allow them to.

P.S. Tucker Carlson is also a parade jumper. Again, the tell is him not pushing conservative artists. If he seriously wanted the kinds of things he wants he'd fight a cultural or religious battle over a mere political one. The biggest hurdle most creatives face is a little something called discoverability. See, most people don't "search" for their entertainment. You must cram it down their throat somehow. Have it put before the "normie" in a way that piques his/her interest or otherwise force feed it to them. For example, you'd put it on a TV network they regularly watch, into a big movie theater, or in a genre of fiction they like to read a lot like "Romance" or something. This is why the house of mouse buys major IPs over creating new ones. It's way easier to just co-opt an existing fanbase over creating a new one. Why? Because normies don't search for their entertainment.

Tucker? With his audience? Push a few of the people I just mentioned, and they'd sell enough to make their work into a competently produced movie or TV show (lots of good actors out there who Hollywood won't hire because they won't recite the woke litanies). Do that for a few and they'd have enough cash to set up their own streaming service to distribute it. This would start up a chain reaction that'd enable us to fork and replace woke entertainment and all its BS and, by extension, actually start having lasting effective action in the political sphere. Then they finally would go broke for getting woke. They know this. He knows this. Hence why he ain't doing it. He's not serious. None of the "mainstream" conservatives are.

It's like I said elsewhere. They are paid to be the Washington Generals to the Left's Harlem Globetrotters. They are paid to lose on purpose and will never stop doing so. Realizing this truth is critical if you want to understand what's really going on here in the West and the rest of the world.

I'll grant you that there are a decent number of leftists who are completely anti-religion. These are people who have likely faced discrimination or abuse from fanatical families/environment and have never known anything other than suffering due to someone's religious beliefs. This cuts many ways: Christians, Catholics, Mormans, Muslims, etc. Any faith is liable to be twisted into a means of condemning others, much like any ideology.

I was fortunate enough to have grown up in a loving Catholic family. I don't share in the faith myself, but as far as my own philosophy goes (which is not that deep or complex, I'll admit) that I do believe in the golden rule that Jesus preached.

I'm a leftist, but I don't hate religion, and I don't hate people of faith. In the ideal world it wouldn't matter what faith people believed in, as long as theirs is derived from treating others with basic human decency, and not as a means of bludgeoning 'heretics', 'apostates', 'infidels', so on so forth.

But I think you might be surprised how many lefties or 'woke' people actually don't really mind the existence of religion at all, even Christianity/Catholicism, because they definitely exist.

[End]

I'll grant you that there are a decent number of leftists who are completely anti-religion. These are people who have likely faced discrimination or abuse from fanatical families/environment and have never known anything other than suffering due to someone's religious beliefs. This cuts many ways: Christians, Catholics, Mormans, Muslims, etc. Any faith is liable to be twisted into a means of condemning others, much like any ideology.

I was fortunate enough to have grown up in a loving Catholic family. I don't share in the faith myself, but as far as my own philosophy goes (which is not that deep or complex, I'll admit) that I do believe in the golden rule that Jesus preached.

I'm a leftist, but I don't hate religion, and I don't hate people of faith. In the ideal world it wouldn't matter what faith people believed in, as long as theirs is derived from treating others with basic human decency, and not as a means of bludgeoning 'heretics', 'apostates', 'infidels', so on so forth.

But I think you might be surprised how many lefties or 'woke' people actually don't really mind the existence of religion at all, even Christianity/Catholicism, because they definitely exist.

I was more referring to the true hardcore "Death Cultists" people like me have taken to referring to them as. The truly lost souls who currently hold absolute sway over all relevant institutions. Yes, I can and would include my very own Catholic Church among them. It is guilty of Sloth. It, in practice, cares more about making sure its parishes and hospitals remain "Tax Free Charities" and getting sweet sweet government money (Especially in places like Germany whose 'Church' has more money than the Vatican proper thanks to that look that one up if you think I'm full of shit) over, well, loudly and proudly proclaiming the Gospel and espousing the Catechism no matter what aspects of it are "problematic".

As I've mentioned elsewhere this trend is already turning thankfully. New Priests are overwhelmingly joining "Traditionalist" orders over the more "Progressive" modernist ones. I mean hell, anyone paying attention to Vatican politics knows that people like Robert Cardinal Sarah are on the short list to take Francis's place once he croaks. I for one would very much welcome that development. About time we had someone friendly to things like the Latin Rite on the throne of St. Peter again. The fact he's midnight black is just a bonus as that'll cause the heads of said Death Cultits to explode like an overcharged Frag Grenade. Good times ahead!

Also, when I speak of the "woke" I speak of the truly lost. I'm talking landwhale, fedora tipping, danger haired, triggered to the point of catatonic hysterical madness because you used the wrong pronoun in reference to them kind of dumbass. I probably should have made that qualification earlier. I think we'd all agree that said individuals aren't helping anyone. Least of all both themselves and the causes/people they claim to want to...

[Metamorph]

As if me pointing out that people like to live around people who look, sound, and think like them and we should probably let that happen somehow makes me best buddies with the funny mustache man and an avid fan of his political and cultural policies.

I agree with this point, and this is where I especially would criticize what seems like your worldview: you think that everyone should be around people who look, sound, and think like them, yet you seem to promote a religion that you characterize as being Western and as having only been revealed within time rather than having ever been revealed outside of time or otherwise able to be ascertained independently. There are religions that claim that everyone already knows them in their heart or that everyone was there before time with God, and this viewpoint is generally referred to as "Gnostic" which might be accurate in a more lowercase-g sense though it itself does not lead directly to the Cathars' Crusade, the hacking off of limbs to reduce the amount of matter, or the worship of demon-gods such as Abraxas. In fact I doubt it leads to those things at all. Why do you promote for say the Chinese to worship an old Jewish man from Israel or Palestine over a universal God? If you think every god must have some kind of particular form as such, I don't think that's the case, either. Can God not just be invisible and intangible and all-pervading and not have to be a person from anywhere in particular?

You keep ignoring my questions about al-Ghazali seemingly being much better than Aquinas, so instead I'll come to you if you won't come to me. Why do you think God has to become a human and die on a Roman torture device to sacrifice himself for your sins? Why can't God just forgive people directly? And if people besides the quadrinity of Jesus, God, Holy Spirit, and Mary weren't these irredeemably guilty and filthy sinners why would that break your entire theological model? Additionally, how do you not view your mysterianism as a form of the very death cult you rebuke? To not see the beauty of creation entire, to be inexorably exiled from the mind of God, is that not more of a condemnation than anything, something that reduces humans from being the greatest of all creation to being rather worthless material vessels that cannot even do as much as an animal like an ox, never mind the coming AIs? Catholics should "it's just a mystery!" is what I cannot get behind most about Catholicism, and along with those are the things Catholics argue must be true because they are mysteries when you could really make up anything you want along those lines and people do. God is not reason, but God created people with reason so they could come to Him. My reason is what brought me to God to begin with, if you want to argue against it you might as well argue for atheism because I do not flagellate myself before devils. So if you will not address my al-Ghazali argument at least address this. I am serious about my al-Ghazali argument, even though you do not seem to take it seriously. Why be Catholic if I have to take someone like Aquinas seriously who said babies are literally human seeds planted inside wombs and that there is a coherent such idea as "natural evil" seperately from demonic evil? You do not explain your argument regarding any points I am actually interested in, you just say "Ra ra Western man, Deus Vult!" I am not here for bathos.

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

A problem with a lot of this is it's SJW priveleged white women in their timely decorated homes being a jerk to straight male coal miners. "You're PRIVELEGED. Don't interalize it" (I'm not picking on what inumbra said - I just mean in general) but they look around at their nothing town and white trash existance and how they struggle every day and it isn't glamorous. They are not privileged because they are white, they are underprivileged because they are poor- and the economic situation trumps the social issues because that's just the capitalist and class based society we live in. But Trump will obviously not truly give any of his money and power to them, so it goes back around to they are just liking him because he's a self confident and arrogant str8 man.

They can't see even if it's socially or interpersonally true because it's internal- and straight white men always masturbate themselves to how objective and logical they are being. And uh- it has some truth to it. I mean that's kinda me playing 'devil's advocate' because I'm a Libra rising and we're narcissistically diplomatic. How do you think I became CEO of the universe?

People's identities and lives don't live in a vacuum- it's like everything connected together. Yeah sure the dude is white, but he's also 4 foot 11, works in a steel mill- and has a 3 inch penis and a wife named Helga. It's okay to have compassion for me because I was bullied all my life by assholes- but they aren't un-deserving of our compassion either. Then they make things so for hard themselves for being such a jerk to people who are pretty much hurt by the same system we are.... it's like this is the point of the story where I say "Guys, we're not fighting each other here- we're fighting Oprah!"

This doesn't make SJW-ism itself the issue either though. Because 90% of the people whining about social justice warriors need a social warrior to save themselves as well they're just to self-defeating to see it. And they are being manipulated and gaslighted by people who are the very same elitists they oppose. Straight white males still hold the most objective power in society (which of course is a privelege) The system fucks everybody over in so many ways- and at the very top it is straight white men considering how many US presidents have been straight white men. And well there's Obama but as many black people say 'nigga wasn't even that black' while the audience chortles.

Bnd for President in 20xx! But like my famous IEI celebrity friend said. "Please don't vote for me. I'm too afraid I'd win."

[Manatroid92]

A problem with a lot of this is it's SJW priveleged white women in their timely decorated homes being a jerk to straight male coal miners. "You're PRIVELEGED. Don't interalize it" (I'm not picking on what inumbra said - I just mean in general) but they look around at their nothing town and white trash existance and how they struggle every day and it isn't glamorous. They are not privileged because they are white, they are underprivileged because they are poor- and the economic situation trumps the social issues because that's just the capitalist and class based society we live in. But Trump will obviously not truly give any of his money and power to them, so it goes back around to they are just liking him because he's a self confident and arrogant str8 man.

They can't see even if it's socially or interpersonally true because it's internal- and straight white men always masturbate themselves to how objective and logical they are being. And uh- it has some truth to it. I mean that's kinda me playing 'devil's advocate' because I'm a Libra rising and we're narcissistically diplomatic. How do you think I became CEO of the universe?

People's identities and lives don't live in a vacuum- it's like everything connected together. Yeah sure the dude is white, but he's also 4 foot 11, works in a steel mill- and has a 3 inch penis and a wife named Helga. It's okay to have compassion for me because I was bullied all my life by assholes- but they aren't un-deserving of our compassion either. Then they make things so for hard themselves for being such a jerk to people who are pretty much hurt by the same system we are.... it's like this is the point of the story where I say "Guys, we're not fighting each other here- we're fighting Oprah!"

This doesn't make SJW-ism itself the issue either though. Because 90% of the people whining about social justice warriors need a social warrior to save themselves as well they're just to self-defeating to see it. And they are being manipulated and gaslighted by people who are the very same elitists they oppose. Straight white males still hold the most objective power in society (which of course is a privelege) The system fucks everybody over in so many ways- and at the very top it is straight white men considering how many US presidents have been straight white men. And well there's Obama but as many black people say 'nigga wasn't even that black' while the audience chortles.

Bnd for President in 20xx! But like my famous IEI celebrity friend said. "Please don't vote for me. I'm too afraid I'd win."

If an IEI becomes President, then the ritual to tear reality’s butthole open would very nearly be complete anyway, so it’d only be a matter of time until everyone ascends and merged into the u-Ni-verse.

[Eliza Thomason]

I was really touched in every way about by what he had to say about his and his wife's parenting experiences. He and his wife definitely must be duals. I think the parenting thing I saw was in that most-popular, much watched interview, with the British feminist, who did a great job interviewing him. (He's done tons more interviews since). I also enjoyed a shorter interview where he and his wife talked about their marriage, how they met, how they problem-solve, their personalities, etc. That was great.

If you have watched some Jordan Peterson, I think you will very much enjoy this:

[DogOfDanger]

unfortunately identity politics are simply a thing. people vote in the interests of their own groups often because that's how they gain more liberties and resources.

Being part of a group is no reason to vote exclusively for its causes, voting needs to be based on what is best for society at large, not simply self-interest. If a group is infact being unjustly oppressed you are obligated to vote to assist them regardless of whether you’re a member of the group - likewise if your group is not oppressed; if your "oppression" is merely being framed as such by politicians pandering to your group to buy your votes, you’re not justified in taking the bait. That’s the difference between acting on higher principles and acting out of narcissism.

i'm not an identity expert. but i'm a white american, and it's true that for much of my life i was largely untroubled by identity politics in a way because the white identity has so much power in US which makes whites the one group who don't have to think about being a race unless of course confronted with the subject of racial inequality... i did experience pain under other identities that aren't dominant because of how they're treated, but i didn't see it in an identity politics way. i preferred to see people as individuals--the problem is... that i am predisposed to be biased towards the dominant groups (e.g. whites) without intending to... i have white privilege which creates blindness..

Carry forward from past racial oppression is not a kind of problem that forces you to focus on your race for your own survival, focusing on your race actually achieves nothing... this is just a neurotic mischaracterization.
People obsess about race because political narratives are foisted onto them, and because the construct provides easy social currency. Blacks are one of the most important voting demographics, they vote 90% democrat. Elections are lost and won based on black voter turnout. This is why every election, in the months leading up, we get wall to wall coverage a police-shooting of a black person and this continues until the election and then disappears, this has happened the last 4 elections and will continue.

Can you tell me why suffering due to past racial oppression is more important than other forms of suffering? There are countless ways people suffer - kids of divorced parents suffer, people who have illnesses suffer, people who are subject to family abuse suffer, people who are poor suffer across the board, people who are overweight or ugly suffer, people whose father died in a war suffer, people who lost their jobs or whose parents lost their jobs suffer, people born with a low IQ suffer … I could probably list hundreds of ways people suffer in society.

What’s significant about suffering is the human pain and turmoil, not the skin tone or the political narrative that surrounds it.

You were untroubled by identity politics but were you untroubled by suffering? You were untroubled by poverty, child illness, familial abuse, and so fourth…? You can speak for yourself - I’m well aware there is suffering and am willing to work to reduce it. What I’m not willing to do is value one groups suffering above anothers because it’s politically expedient, and hyper focus on their skin tone as the deciding factor, because that actually fails to address suffering.

Before we continue, lets distinguish between oppression and suffering: oppression is being actively subjected to injustice and control, suffering is an existential condition. Black people may be still suffering as a result of past oppression - that is not current oppression.

The best path that exists to reduce your suffering is your individual efforts, resourcefulness, etc. - counting on the government to end your suffering is completely foolish. The government isn’t in your life, they could only indirectly effect a small bit of what you go through. The government is also in constant gridlock. You have really no power to effect the government.
All this characterization that you’re giving blacks does for them is hands them an external locus of control that will never amount to anything. They are being used for their vote. People adopt these oppressed identities because they’re socially expedient - if you’re black you actually get certain social privileges for that, especially from the left wingers. You downplay your race - in reality white people are the only widely hated race in society, it’s as much a liability to be white as anything, and whites aren’t the wealthiest group - asians and Jews are much wealthier.

So the idea is to all be individuals but the reality in the US shows that hasn't been working. some groups have power, others have less and are subordinated, largely because of the way the US organized its hierarchies historically. it deliberately oppressed people of color (and other groups) in ways that continue to harm those groups today. for instance, on average black americans earn way less money than white americans, live in more toxic environments, own fewer houses, have less access to medical care and healthy food, are more likely to be incarcerated for minor offenses, are more likely to be shot by police, it goes on and on. it was by design and it still hasn't been fixed. white americans by and large have more opportunities than black americans (which isn't to say some white people don't have it bad), and can't be victims of racism in the way black americans can because all the structures in society largely favor white people > others.

Hasn't been working...? It hasn't been happening, the US culture is completely dominated by identity politics... we are a culture of brainwashed puppets - if it isn't politicians doing the brainwashing then it is hollywood or some stupid musician.
You list off a bunch of problems but you do not get to the root of them, and without that the problems can't ever get solved. This is useless, it is just derailing the whole conversation into a dramatization about skin tone. This is only useful as a political narrative... If you can identify laws on the books that are actively oppressing blacks today then we can work to fix those laws, that is perfectly fine - that’s a problem that’s actionable. What I hear instead is that we can’t point to a specific law or set of laws that can be changed - i.e. we have no useful suggestions. Instead it’s just this system wide issue and infact the very foundations of western society are oppressive of minorities... you say this, but don't identify an actual mechanism, it's just this ambiguous insinuation. And so the implication is we need to do stupid things like dismantle the police force and prison system, despite the fact this harms blacks disproportionately. That’s the dominant political narrative today. This is a narrative designed to increase voter turnout.

Your analysis is also slanted - blacks are about 3x more likely to be shot by police, they’re also 6 times more likely to commit homicide and 8 times more likely to commit armed robbery.

For starters, it doesn’t actually follow that differences in “power” (i.e. mainly wealth) between groups are a carry-forward of oppression, you just kind of assume that correlation is causation, but it isn't... For example (and you may not like this, but it is a fact), the strongest predictor of career success, and by extension earning power, is IQ. Unfortunately the average African Americans IQ as of about 30 years ago was 86. I know the facts about IQ are not enjoyable to talk about, but this is simply reality - we would actually expect a lower average income in blacks compared to other races based on their IQ being about a standard deviation lower than average.
There’s also much higher rates of fatherlessness in the black community, 72% of black household do not have fathers. Now… fatherlessness has increased dramatically over the last 40 years or so - this is not a carry-forward of oppression. That’s a result of cultural changes… The rapper-wannabe culture whose debased values are cappin police, screwin hos and dealing drugs is going to have to change to rectify this - this is the kind of thing you never mention, and you make excuses for, but until there is a pushback against this culture the situation is not going to improve, you can keep selling this sad story all you like, it is just a political narrative for votes anyway.

You also fail to mention that we provide multiple trillions in medicare, unemployment, disability, social security, and food stamps to the poor.
And no, blacks are not locked up for minor drug offenses. This is a common myth, there are actually very few people locked up for possession of marijuana, I think the number is less than 100 total in the United States currently. The vast majority of people in prison on drug charges are in there for distribution.

Without a well thought through, accurate analysis of what the problem is that isn’t just a regurgitation of political talking points and reduction of the conversation to emotional string-pulling about skin color we will never get to the root of any of these problems.

anyway, despite not thinking about things in an identity politics way until the last 7 years or so, still i voted in what i interpret to be the interests of my group, which seems to be defined as the poor/working class. i have, iow, a political identity whether i want one or not. and being aware of that also means being aware that much of my self-defined group isn't white, and the poverty they face has racial ties and causes that i don't suffer due to my white priv. once roe was struck down, my female identity became inflamed, the loss of federally recognized rights to my own body and health was felt in a deep and terrible way i've actually never experienced before (i have a lot of dominant identities that haven't been under threat like that before - white, heterosexual, cis-gender - i've been too privileged to feel this before iow). when people feel an existential threat to one of their identities (e.g. race, sexual orientation, gender, religion, class, immigrant, etc.) that our culture differentiates us by, they react, they engage in identity politics to gain or regain their rights.

This is derailing the conversation, but it’s pretty absurd that you feel abortion is a threat to you as a person. I have a simple solution for you - use birth control. They even have morning after pills you can use.
You really respond this way because you’re very agreeable - if other people say it… well you want to feel compassionate, since people say it it's probably true, and you want to avoid conflict... your social strategy has always been to get everyone you can on your side; but because the media controls the dominant narrative (and hence the perception of what ‘others’ think) - you basically end up saying what the media says and you come up with reasons to justify it, this makes you comfortable. Your fundamental problem is you don’t actually think for yourself and you are too weak in character. A secondary problem would be that you don’t understand politics, political narratives and voting demographics.

in states like FL if teachers can't acknowledge to their classrooms that homosexual and transgender people and students exist, that is an example of the state (which favors the heterosexual and cis-gendered) attacking a disempowered identity group. again, identity politics are employed because not every group is under attack, and not under attack to the same degree. laws to cut out teaching history that would reveal our racist past in school are another attack, because it's trying to preserve the false worldview that the US isn't still suffering from massive racial inequality (to deny history) in order to maintain the white dominance in the nation (so that attacks non-white identities). when the government erodes the separation of church and state to push christian dominion on americans, that is an attack on all non-christian identities. politics unfortunately is identity politics, and people feel these things instinctively and react to them, no matter what they call it, and whether they want to or not.

I’m not getting into a long winded talk about transgenderism and children here - you seem to be name-dropping these different groups to try & give yourself as much social support as possible and somehow bolster your point. This is a social strategy you people engage in, you think if you can get every oppressed group on your side then you’re going to “win” the conversation. I’m a disagreeable person though, and could not care less if 99 out of 100 stupid people agree with a bad idea, this never actually changes the fact of the matter, so… keep trying.

an identity is justly defended and fought for when it is against being subordinated by a dominant identity. an identity is not justly defended and fought for when it is to subordinate other identities or gain dominion over other groups. aggrieved whites who fear the loss of white power and are voting based on that are practicing identity politics of the unjust kind (whites are the dominant racial group in the US). aggrieved cis-gender people who are voting to stop transgender rights, are practicing identity politics of the unjust kind (cis-gender people are dominant in the US, and Canada). which means... jordan peterson is practicing identity politics (unjustly), as he's obsessed with transgender people even going after them, like with elliot page. he advocates against their rights, he attacks individuals in the group, he doesn't respect their right to exist as they are, he doesn't consider transgender people valid. this is like the worst practice of identity politics there is. and what is he defending? the dominance of cis-gender people over transgender people.

If you declare war on whites, whites will respond by declaring war in return. You can promote this sad, slave morality all you like - when your "morality" is the pure vying for personal power, predicated on forced narratives about your oppression rammed down others throats, and the casual hostility toward certain convenient "powerful" scapegoats, said scapegoats are very stupid to take it seriously.

If society is just a bunch of little tribes vying for power there is no higher principle of unity or compassion that remains, society is degraded into something totally dysfunctional and hostile - kill or be killed. In this way you actually justify the dominant “group” stamping out any lesser group vying for dominance. The only thing that prevents the strong from oppressing the weak is the idea of unity - a cooperative game. You actually dispense with the very idea of a cooperative game through your pseudo-philosophical jargon. In doing so you pretty much undermine your entire argument for protecting the little guy. I mean really, why would I ever want to help someone who comes up with every reason imaginable to hold me accountable for their life misery and suffering, fails to take any personal responsibility, and acts as if I am the sole person responsible for fixing everything wrong in society?
If you want to play a game of war we can play one - but don’t think you can trick me into lowering my guard or degrading myself with this self-serving false morality built on your selective distortions that only works in your direction.

and if one wants equality in society, that is just... going in the wrong direction. the US for instance has been growing its aggrieved dominant identity groups, and they are pushing US to the end of democracy. their positions are illegitimate. dominant groups have power, they have their rights, all they can fight for against the other groups is to block their struggle for equality or put them down even more. and to gain that increasing dominion over everyone else they would have to tear down the constitution of the US, and end democracy. they go that extreme because they are already empowered, it's just... it's not enough power apparently.

You again totally fail to recognize the difference between suffering and oppression. It’s like you just took an intro to political philosophy class and you’re coming up with revolutionary slogans that might appeal to people, and mixing in things you've heard others say, but you haven’t bothered to think through what you're saying more than a few seconds. I don’t think it's even worth a detailed response, it’s just so cliche.
Do you know how hard it is to survive in this culture? You have to work your entire life. I didn’t make a dime until well into my twenties. None of this had anything to do whatsoever with my race, skin tone, sex, sexuality, or anything else - it is a struggle to survive. It’s like you reduce the entire range of human experience in this world into these dumb political slogans that have just completely hijacked and bored their way into your brains.

ps. i don't know what else jordan peterson has done, but i'm sure there's more!

After you reduce all human interaction to power games I find it pretty amusing when you turn around and pretend to have some semblance of personal ethics.

Carry onward