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Thread: SEIs, do you like yoga?

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Default SEIs, do you like yoga?

    I find yoga too monotonous and uncomfortable. I need more uncontrolled freedom of sensations to be satisfied (Si base).

    I still do some simple yoga at home (sun salutation), because it has some benefits. But it's not really my thing.

    Yoga seems more Ni/Se to me.

    I think yoga has some Si connection, but it's more weak Si. Creative Si, Role Si or even PoLR Si. But not Base Si.

    SEIs, have you tried yoga and what do you think about it?
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Yoga, at least traditionally, is connected to psychology. It's considered to be the ancient Indian science of psychology anyway. I think it's Si enough. I personally need some form of exercise so yoga works. Yoga has a really amazing feel good effect if done right. I have been practicing yoga on and off for several years now. But yeah, I prefer other forms of working out.

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    Yoga is a quintessential low-stress Si-heavy activity.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Yoga is a quintessential low-stress Si-heavy activity.
    In a way it is. But on the other hand the movements are very controlled and "forced" that is hostile to Si.

    In yoga you follow monotonous movements, not necessarily your inner sensations.

    However, the result can be low-stress and nice sensations.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    In a way it is. But on the other hand the movements are very controlled and "forced" that is hostile to Si.

    In yoga you follow monotonous movements, not necessarily your inner sensations.

    However, the result can be low-stress and nice sensations.
    Fair enough. But to use any element fruitfully you have to use some amount of its opposite (in this case Se). Sitting on the couch eating snacks may be more "purely Si" in that way. Or doing nothing

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    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
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    One of the problems in the western world is that a practice such as yoga has been adapted to western practices, so what you get nowadays are these yoga centers where yoga is treated like a competitive sport. That certainly doesn't appeal to SEIs.

    I myself went to a yoga class for the first time 12 years ago, and the teacher herself was doing the exercises instead of actively guiding the attendees. So I hurt a muscle and decided to never go again. Instead I bought a DVD 'Yoga for Dummies', a no-nonsense approach to yoga, which I use until today. I have no need to become a master at the most difficult yoga positions, I only need to loosen my muscles every now and then.

    If I see how the whole culture around yoga has developed, I think it's rather pathetic.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    In yoga you follow monotonous movements, not necessarily your inner sensations.

    However, the result can be low-stress and nice sensations.
    Yogic exercises also (at least practiced correctly) are just one part of a broader philosophy; this piques the curiosity of people who otherwise find physical exertion boring and too tedious to bother with.

    Anecdotally, I find yoga to be very grounding. It has helped me "slow down" my mind and become more aware of my body. I can now pinpoint and fully explore the potential of a single thought without interference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spermatozoa View Post
    Anecdotally, I find yoga to be very grounding. It has helped me "slow down" my mind and become more aware of my body. I can now pinpoint and fully explore the potential of a single thought without interference.
    Well, that's how it should be, I guess. What amazed me about that single Yoga class I once had, was how fast the class attendees changed clothes after class and hurried their way out of there. Lots of people who treat yoga as a way to compensate for their busy lives, instead of extending the principles behind yoga to the rest of their lives. Winding down only to make room to be able to go fast forward again.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    C-ESI-Se sx/sp ashlesha's Avatar
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    I only follow along to youtube instructors, and I'm sure it's different than attending a real class, but they all really drive home the idea of listening to your body, taking breaks when you need to, not doing anything you're not comfortable with, etc

    As opposed to the online instructors for strength training or cardio who are like "its just lactic acid and you don't need to listen to it!! Think about your goals!"

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    I see where you are coming from but I think maybe it just related to being new to an activity rather than type related? If you're new to yoga / stretching / bodywork then you're going to turn to instruction which won't be personalised and thus will just feel boring and maybe even inapplicable and repetitive. But once you build up the knowledge of how to stretch, what different stretches are available to you, which ones you benefit from the most etc you'll be able to approach it from a sense of play and just making up routines that you know your body needs and will enjoy.

    Like learning a new instrument is boring and repetitive and forced at first but then you can learn to jam and create and play around with it in a way that feels natural. It's the ability and confidence to get into a state of flow with it.
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
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    No I don't like yoga, but now the points laid out by @consentingadult and @mrrrmaid give me an idea as to why. I really like yoga in theory, but in practice I've always found it to be torturing my body into unnatural positions and being forced to hold them with no distraction, and just bear the pain.

    However, I am not very limber, or strong. Maybe if I had a more relaxed, beginner's approach to yoga, I'd get into it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xaiviay View Post
    No I don't like yoga, but now the points laid out by @consentingadult and @mrrrmaid give me an idea as to why. I really like yoga in theory, but in practice I've always found it to be torturing my body into unnatural positions and being forced to hold them with no distraction, and just bear the pain.

    However, I am not very limber, or strong. Maybe if I had a more relaxed, beginner's approach to yoga, I'd get into it?
    Yoga starts with the feeling of a need for it. Very much like Forrest Gump, who just felt like running, and started to run.
    “I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrrmaid View Post
    But once you build up the knowledge of how to stretch, what different stretches are available to you, which ones you benefit from the most etc you'll be able to approach it from a sense of play and just making up routines that you know your body needs and will enjoy.

    Like learning a new instrument is boring and repetitive and forced at first but then you can learn to jam and create and play around with it in a way that feels natural. It's the ability and confidence to get into a state of flow with it.
    The "problem" here I think is Si as a base function specifically and what that really means. Because what you wrote sounds to me more like weaker Si governed by some stronger function. The base is "demanding", in a way too independent.

    I tried explaining some more below how I see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaiviay View Post
    I really like yoga in theory, but in practice I've always found it to be torturing my body into unnatural positions and being forced to hold them with no distraction, and just bear the pain.
    I think my attitude is similar. Sounds interesting, but then when I try it I am just impatient and bored (and uncomfortable).

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    One of the problems in the western world is that a practice such as yoga has been adapted to western practices, so what you get nowadays are these yoga centers where yoga is treated like a competitive sport. That certainly doesn't appeal to SEIs.

    If I see how the whole culture around yoga has developed, I think it's rather pathetic.
    Maybe I'd prefer something between western "hectic" yoga and the original thing.

    On the other hand it's quite natural that a practice like yoga gets adapted to the recieving culture. That happens with almost anything. Seems that the Indian mind is quite different from the western. But maybe it's something in the spirit of yoga that still can contribute to western culture, even though it's being "distorted".

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Fair enough. But to use any element fruitfully you have to use some amount of its opposite (in this case Se). Sitting on the couch eating snacks may be more "purely Si" in that way. Or doing nothing
    Si base needs freedom to really indulge in sensations so they can be explored. Lots of nuances, a "differentiated" function. So you need an environment like that, maybe cooking slowly or art, painting, crafts, decorating, sensuality etc. It's like, tell a LII how he should think or principles and rules that he should have. He might not like it, even though it's supposed to "be Ti", because he wants to figure them out himself, and they will be more advanced.

    I don't know if the analogy above is entirely accurate, but I guess my point is that activities that seem thematically linked to a type are not necessarily that suitable when looked upon closely. It's even more difficult to see in Si because it is often not shown outside in all it's real glory

    For comparison: I once introduced Socionics to a LII friend. I thought that he probably would like theory, because "LIIs like theory". But he didn't care much about the theory. He was impressed by it, because it was so accurate, but he only read a little so he got the basics and could make observations himself. He was somehow able to navigate himself in the subject, despite not really knowing much about it. Seems like he improvised some kind of understanding of it.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spermatozoa View Post
    Yogic exercises also (at least practiced correctly) are just one part of a broader philosophy; this piques the curiosity of people who otherwise find physical exertion boring and too tedious to bother with.

    Anecdotally, I find yoga to be very grounding. It has helped me "slow down" my mind and become more aware of my body. I can now pinpoint and fully explore the potential of a single thought without interference.
    I think I'm too impatient. I still think it's ok though. About the philosophy. I've noticed there must be strong symbolism in sun salutation for example. Not that I really can feel it, but doing the movements going down and up and and turning your face to "the sun" must be symblic. Kindof a death-rebirth pattern under God's guidance ("the sun").

    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I only follow along to youtube instructors, and I'm sure it's different than attending a real class, but they all really drive home the idea of listening to your body, taking breaks when you need to, not doing anything you're not comfortable with, etc

    As opposed to the online instructors for strength training or cardio who are like "its just lactic acid and you don't need to listen to it!! Think about your goals!"
    There are interesting videos on YT where people in India do yoga. There is a different attitude somehow, hard to explain exactly how it differs though.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    The "problem" here I think is Si as a base function specifically and what that really means. Because what you wrote sounds to me more like weaker Si governed by some stronger function. The base is "demanding", in a way too independent.
    Fair enough. I don't think I'm si base but I relate to what you said, which is why I suggested maybe it was something else. I often find I don't have the patience for yoga and don't do any videos longer than 20 mins because I just get frustrated. But I have found it increased my awareness of what my body needs (like I've been hunched over a computer all day and by back is protesting right now but I know the stretches to sort it out). I think I wouldn't have had that awareness without yoga and would actually just be walking around with a seriously stressed back - and doing a variety of structured videos helped me learn that. But for the most part I'd prefer to just do the few poses I know I like and do the bare minimum to stop my muscles screaming at me
    @Xaiviay if you do want to give an easier class a go, the one I notice a lot of noobs (incl. myself) doing is Yoga With Adrienne on youtube. She has a range of gentle classes often not too long (like I said above, 20 mins is about my personal cut off point). I'm similarly not that strong or limber so I feel you!
    "I take back like half of the exclamation points.....they make me look....eager to please. Which I AM....but I don't want anyone to KNOW that"
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    No, yoga makes me cry. I can't do it. My flexibility is very underaverage.

    I love dance and tai chi is ok.

    Rolling around in a silky blanket ... Now THAT's Si. Or a long back scratch. Or sitting in warm sunshine on a cool day and soaking it in. Sometimes I feel like a cat.
    ~* astralsilky



    Each essence is a separate glass,
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    Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
    A thousand colors, but the Light is One.

    Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrrmaid View Post
    @Xaiviay if you do want to give an easier class a go, the one I notice a lot of noobs (incl. myself) doing is Yoga With Adrienne on youtube. She has a range of gentle classes often not too long (like I said above, 20 mins is about my personal cut off point). I'm similarly not that strong or limber so I feel you!
    Seconded, she moves slowly and explains a lot, it's really low pressure, and she has a fun and down to earth personality that makes it seem like less of a boring chore to slowly learn. I started with her and I used to mention her in conversation like she was a friend or something lol. I recommend her to everyone who wants to try yoga for the first time.

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    I like the principle of stretching but regular yoga makes me fall asleep. I prefer more intense types like hot yoga or something like pilates with weights.

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    I only did Yoga seriously like one time, and I remember while I did it I hated it- I felt a lot stronger after I did it, like just way more better to handle any shit that came my way. I felt way less vulnerable which was nice. It definitely raised my HP.

    It's one of those things to me now where sadly but true, the end result justifies the shitty means. Obviously I'd like it to be more where I can enjoy it better in the moment not just the 'result state' but I think that's probably too idealistic. And if you don't push yourself and try to do it like they do in the videos (Even in the beginner stages) then it seems like you're not getting the full benefit and just kinda dunno... why not just stretch or something if you're doing that. But I have one dimensional Se as it is, I don't like moving my body much at all regardless it's just a huge drain on me personally. Even when I had a much better body, I only got that way from not paying attention to it I didn't really actively try to get involved in anything physical.

    Reminds me of anything physical. 'Why the hell are you doing that?' Answer: Because it's going to feel really, really good when I stop.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    In a way it is. But on the other hand the movements are very controlled and "forced" that is hostile to Si.

    In yoga you follow monotonous movements, not necessarily your inner sensations.
    When I was in my best shape and very young, I immensely preferred the Cecchetti formal method of Russian ballet study to any yoga. For one thing, the music makes a big difference. I otherwise hate most athletics. Number two, having freedom to move around and express your inward energy is far preferable to feeling like ones body has been concocted into a dull loathsome vice (ie yoga).
    ~* astralsilky



    Each essence is a separate glass,
    Through which Sun of Being’s Light is passed,
    Each tinted fragment sparkles with the Sun,
    A thousand colors, but the Light is One.

    Jami, 15th c. Persian Poet

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    I like yoga but I've injured myself (mildly). The studios I go have large class sizes and the teachers don't notice what you're doing. It is not cheap (but I would like the teachers and studios to thrive). It is a good full body workout, but make sure to be careful with the positions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrrmaid@[URL="http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/member.php?u=10738"
    Xaiviay[/URL] if you do want to give an easier class a go, the one I notice a lot of noobs (incl. myself) doing is Yoga With Adrienne on youtube. She has a range of gentle classes often not too long (like I said above, 20 mins is about my personal cut off point). I'm similarly not that strong or limber so I feel you!
    Thanks mrrrmaid (and @ashlesha)! This is pretty useful, I'll have to check it out

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    Yoga is glorified stretching. I only like going to classes where the instructor plays good music.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Poptart View Post
    Yoga is glorified stretching. I only like going to classes where the instructor plays good music.
    Please don’t take this the wrong way, but your posts are unintentionally hilarious to me for some reason. This made me laugh IRL for one or two minutes.

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    my favorite yoga instructor emphasized that yoga is more about the mind than the body... I liked yoga bc it was about dealing with the mind... all the bodily stuff is just one of the ways the mind resists... The yoga instructor understood this

    PS she was probably LSI

    I guess another way to put it is yes there is suffering, but it's about trying to understand why... if there wasn't suffering, yoga, imo, would be useless
    Last edited by inumbra; 05-11-2021 at 08:30 AM.

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    Perhaps it appeals more to rational types than irrational ones? Yoga doesn't seem that IP-temperament friendly to me but maybe that heavily depends on the instructor.

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    I benefit at least as much from noticing my breathing and pacing it in sync with the movement than anything else

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    Please don’t take this the wrong way, but your posts are unintentionally hilarious to me for some reason. This made me laugh IRL for one or two minutes.
    Most of my posts aren’t meant to be taken seriously lol

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    Yes. I like anything that doesn't involve me feeling like I'm dying (cardio).
    I only do yoga with the instructors on YouTube. It relaxes me, helps me with mindfulness and to feel more in tune with my body.
    I prefer shorter, less intense yoga or else I start to feel restless and annoyed.
    Chronic "grass is always greener" syndrome




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