Differences between mirror types LIE (ENTj) and ILI (INTp)

[sushi]

Thank you in going to read that now

[hatesyardwork]

Check out Socionic temperaments...... LIE is EJ temp and ILI is IP temperament. http://www.sociotype.com/socionics/temperaments/

[Sol]

How the hell can I tell the difference ?

Try IR for different people near you - check what you feel to them and how this fits to IR theory. It's hard to choose own type without IR.

[End]

Best way is to read the mirror relationship

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Stratiyevskaya

There are differing methods and approaches on Te and Ni

That article... is just about right. I do it and I admit it. If I can shift the responsibility of the completion of a task to a more suited party I do it. It's all in the name of efficiency mind you. Why not let someone who specializes in X do X for me while I focus on something I'm more suited to? It's all about the division of labor, we ought all focus on the shit we're best at and leave our weak spots to others who have them as strong points. You wouldn't ask a hairdresser to go and mine for coal now would you? Don't ask an observer to go and do what essentially amounts to that. Lemme just observe OK? We'll all be happier for it.

I lied, we won't. I'll be happier, but most of you other people probably won't. I think this is why my type constantly yearns for minions, if only we had minions to boss around so that everything could get done as we quietly observe the world. Shit gets done and we get to sit back and relax, heaven!

[Beautiful sky]

You're welcome @Lola

[FarDraft]

Deleted.

[Itsme]

A lot of ILIs are perfectly able to get laid, they just cannot convince themselves that it is worth it.

[Alomoes]

Indeed.

[Itsme]

Since i had this question too and came to the conclusion that i wasn't ILI but Strong Ni-Lie subtype, how i could differenciate:

Temperament, Ej is restless and hyperactive while Ip can be like a massive black hole in the room that swallows every kind of energy.

Result and Process: Entj (result) comes to conclusions top down, works with a big mental representation of whats happening and goes from the conclusion to the details that lead to them, also it's more stress resistant.

Demonstrative in social interaction, while under people i am confortable with i use a lot of Ne in a playfull way while i simpy don't seem to care about ti.

Interacting with Mirror types or other intertype relationships: With SEE i have activity with SLE benefit SLIs seem to despise me and i seem to supervise a IEI at least i could if i was mean. Also mutual correction and 2 sides of the same coin happen while interacting with ILI while interaction with LIE more started like a teacher student thing and went into concurrence with mutual disstatisfaction soon.

Polr was also a great source do determine, Fe polr should be obvious, when you are being social as LIE you will propably use Fe as a ILI you will not, if you are restless and a bit hyperactive, can't enjoy the moment, and are absolutely unable to bring yourself to relax without drugs or other aids propabliy LIE.
When you casually talk about food and health issues on an average personal distance bringing it up by yourself you are propably ILI.

Hope this could make things clearer also for others who find this with the search function.

[Adam Strange]

Since i had this question too and came to the conclusion that i wasn't ILI but Strong Ni-Lie subtype, how i could differenciate:

Temperament, Ej is restless and hyperactive while Ip can be like a massive black hole in the room that swallows every kind of energy.

Result and Process: Entj (result) comes to conclusions top down, works with a big mental representation of whats happening and goes from the conclusion to the details that lead to them, also it's more stress resistant.

Demonstrative in social interaction, while under people i am confortable with i use a lot of Ne in a playfull way while i simpy don't seem to care about ti.

Interacting with Mirror types or other intertype relationships: With SEE i have activity with SLE benefit SLIs seem to despise me and i seem to supervise a IEI at least i could if i was mean. Also mutual correction and 2 sides of the same coin happen while interacting with ILI while interaction with LIE more started like a teacher student thing and went into concurrence with mutual disstatisfaction soon.

Polr was also a great source do determine, Fe polr should be obvious, when you are being social as LIE you will propably use Fe as a ILI you will not, if you are restless and a bit hyperactive, can't enjoy the moment, and are absolutely unable to bring yourself to relax without drugs or other aids propabliy LIE.
When you casually talk about food and health issues on an average personal distance bringing it up by yourself you are propably ILI.

Hope this could make things clearer also for others who find this with the search function.

You convinced me with “I could if I were mean.”

[Itsme]

You convinced me with “I could if I were mean.”

, are Intps so much meaner though? Could make sense because to attract a Fi lead you should be hard wired to strive to be decend, for a Se lead it could be a hinderance, but in the descriptions ILIs are often said to be more into Fi matters than LIE due to their hidden agenda

[Adam Strange]

, are Intps so much meaner though? Could make sense because to attract a Fi lead you should be hard wired to strive to be decend, for a Se lead it could be a hinderance, but in the descriptions ILIs are often said to be more into Fi matters than LIE due to their hidden agenda

ILI’s have 2D Fi while LIE’s have 1D Fi. This surprised me when I first read it, because I was judging all the ILI’s I knew by how well they seemed to like people (which they do not seem to do because they are FePoLR), but I do believe that ILI’s are better at Fi, which is knowing who and what they like, than are LIE’s.

ILI’s seem to be one step ahead of me in seeing the values in a relationship. I can clearly see this ability in them. SEE’s seem to have monstrous insight into people’s motivations, and ESI’s are just off the scale and out of my ability to comprehend. I don’t understand ESI’s, but I can ask them questions and get answers.

[Itsme]

ILI’s have 2D Fi while LIE’s have 1D Fi. This surprised me when I first read it, because I was judging all the ILI’s I knew by how well they seemed to like people (which they do not seem to do because they are FePoLR), but I do believe that ILI’s are better at Fi, which is knowing who and what they like, than are LIE’s.

ILI’s seem to be one step ahead of me in seeing the values in a relationship. I can clearly see this ability in them. SEE’s seem to have monstrous insight into people’s motivations, and ESI’s are just off the scale and out of my ability to comprehend. I don’t understand ESI’s, but I can ask them questions and get answers.

Interesting, yes, one can only imagine how it is not to run around semi blind in relationships, but maybe there is an ESI-guide dog aviable out there.
Shocking how much there is never to comprehend in a lifetime just because you have been born with a different function order.
I will have to take a look at how the strong Fi- Types i know work, maybe i can ask them how they are that good at this.

[Tonatiuh]

A lot of ILIs are perfectly able to get laid, they just cannot convince themselves that it is worth it.

Never had this issue, one could probably say it's the reason I do a lot of things.

[The Reality Denialist]

Is it worth it? I don't see it.

[Sol]

ILI’s have 2D Fi while LIE’s have 1D Fi. This surprised me when I first read it, because I was judging all the ILI’s I knew by how well they seemed to like people (which they do not seem to do because they are FePoLR)

Weak nonvalued Fe means people are not accented on objective value of people as persons. This does not mean they dislike them, they more try do not input emotions (Fe ones mostly) in thoughts about them, to stay emotionally indifferent.
It's similar with role Fe and is more noticable when L*E are tired - they switch to poker faces. Fe types may perceive this as disrespect and inabbility to influence on base Te, which influence Fe types have lesser than it seems as base Te types often play Fe as surface and formal rituals.
There is not significant difference in strenght between weak and strong functions.

Te types value Fi. They prefer personal relation - like you to me, so me to you. Te types real emotionality is switched by this, - when you do something personal good or bad to them. You'll not get loud emotions, but in eyes you'll see what happens inside, also you may expect a justiful return relation.

[PussyInASarcophagus]

ILI ain't a cunt

[Beautiful sky]

ILI are highly negative and can not stand LIE who are positive

[Tonatiuh]

ILI are highly negative and can not stand LIE who are positive

Bullshieeet.

[Soupman]

Bullshieeet.

It is true, what Maritsa said, if you are mistyped you won't understand - BTW, LIE are introverts and tend to mistype themselves if coming from MBTI or crappy tests.

[sbbds]

It is true, what Maritsa said, if you are mistyped you won't understand - BTW, LIE are introverts and tend to mistype themselves if coming from MBTI or crappy tests.

It’s not lol. ILI’s duals are SEE who are also positivists.

If an ILI dislikes LIE it’s for other reasons.

[Soupman]

It’s not lol. ILI’s duals are SEE who are also positivists.

If an ILI dislikes LIE it’s for other reasons.

Actually there's another fact to learn - duals cannot work with each other side by side for the same positivist/negativists reason. Things work bests when duals don't interfere with each other - and normally they sort of don't given their divergent sphere's of interest.

I have personally asked Viktor Gulenko about this - you can ask him yourself, he's got a facebook page etc.

I actually know this from first hand experience both SEE & ESE even don't instinctively understand the mindset of a person that starts dwelling on problems when deriving an answer. They just see it as somebody trying to spoil the enthusiasm - passionate vitriol is amply supplied when they see this.

[sbbds]

Actually there's another fact to learn - duals cannot work with each other side by side for the same positivist/negativists reason. Things work bests when duals don't interfere with each other - and normally they sort of don't given their divergent sphere's of interest.

I have personally asked Viktor Gulenko about this - you can ask him yourself, he's got a facebook page etc.

Something for you to learn is how to STFU. Directly quote what he said then if you’re good buddies, because as far as I know, the point of this positivism/negativism dichotomy is that they balance each other out in a good way. Of course there’s the general clash of opposites that comes with duality but Reinins in isolation are purely complementary.

A piece of evidence towards this is that all ITR only have half of the Reinins in complement, except for duality, which has them all in complementary pairs. So if Gulenko speaks against this he’s wrong af. Gulenko isn’t God. Reinins were made to highlight compatibility.

[Beautiful sky]

It’s not lol. ILI’s duals are SEE who are also positivists.

If an ILI dislikes LIE it’s for other reasons.

”
“Emotionally the ILI has a suppressing effect on the LIE. "He as if kills everything that is living," complains about his ILI friend a merry, restless jokesmith LIE, "Around him all the joy of life disappears - all of its vitalizing nutrients evaporate." It is difficult for the LIE to interact with the ILI for a long period of time. ILI's emotional dullness and insipidness takes a heavy toll on him. LIE's ethical aspects are at least held to some norms, while the ILI can be an obnoxious partner for him in this respect - he either depresses LIE's spirits by boredom, disheartenment, and melancholy, or irritates him by sudden outbursts of anger, unethical statements and behavior, and unbridled humor and jokes. And ILI's jokes can be even more shocking than LIE's, even more ill-suited, crude, and indecent (lets recall ILI's famous "black humor"!). ”

[sbbds]

”
“Emotionally the ILI has a suppressing effect on the LIE. "He as if kills everything that is living," complains about his ILI friend a merry, restless jokesmith LIE, "Around him all the joy of life disappears - all of its vitalizing nutrients evaporate." It is difficult for the LIE to interact with the ILI for a long period of time. ILI's emotional dullness and insipidness takes a heavy toll on him. LIE's ethical aspects are at least held to some norms, while the ILI can be an obnoxious partner for him in this respect - he either depresses LIE's spirits by boredom, disheartenment, and melancholy, or irritates him by sudden outbursts of anger, unethical statements and behavior, and unbridled humor and jokes. And ILI's jokes can be even more shocking than LIE's, even more ill-suited, crude, and indecent (lets recall ILI's famous "black humor"!). ”

First of all this is from LIE’s perspective towards ILI, not the other way around which is what we were talking about.

Next, this structurally can’t be the effect of positivism and negativism on their own clashing. ILI is also like that because of Fe polr, and they naturally seek positivism and Fe demonstrative and energy from their duals. LIE has Fe role instead, which takes on a different flavour and can grate against ILI.

ESIs are technically negativists as well and are seen to be killjoys too in some ways by LIE as well, but the point of negativism is to reduce cognitively. It’s not about pessimism although it can appear like that because of the direction of mental focus negativists get into.

[Beautiful sky]

First of all this is from LIE’s perspective towards ILI, not the other way around which is what we were talking about.

Next, this structurally can’t be the effect of positivism and negativism on their own clashing. ILI is also like that because of Fe polr, and they naturally seek positivism and Fe demonstrative and energy from their duals. LIE has Fe role instead, which takes on a different flavour and can grate against ILI.

ESIs are technically negativists as well and are seen to be killjoys too in some ways by LIE as well, but the point of negativism is to reduce cognitively. It’s not about pessimism although it can appear like that because of the direction of mental focus negativists get into.

You are quite disagreeable for someone of your type

[MrsTortilla]

You are quite disagreeable for someone of your type

You two are conflictors, so...

[Beautiful sky]

You two are conflictors, so...

Possibly but even conflict relationships pose as something sweet and nice at the beginning which is what attracts them rather than repels them. In conflicts which are easy to start SLE comes off as affirming positive inspiring inspirational and positive

[MrsTortilla]

Possibly but even conflict relationships pose as something sweet and nice at the beginning which is what attracts them rather than repels them. In conflicts which are easy to start SLE comes off as affirming positive inspiring inspirational and positive

Possibly, but it is my belief that experience with your conflictor in the past can really remove the beginning part of the relations in future interactions with new conflictor people. In other words, the more you spend time with any conflictor, the more “allergic” you get to your conflictor in general. I could be wrong but that’s been my experience.

[Beautiful sky]

Possibly, but it is my belief that experience with your conflictor in the past can really remove the beginning part of the relations in future interactions with new conflictor people. In other words, the more you spend time with any conflictor, the more “allergic” you get to your conflictor in general. I could be wrong but that’s been my experience.

You are correct in many ways but in the ways that I am allergic to SLE is when they speak about energy strength power etc not when they disagree with me on my posts and try to correct and reconstruct me.

[Tonatiuh]

It is true, what Maritsa said, if you are mistyped you won't understand - BTW, LIE are introverts and tend to mistype themselves if coming from MBTI or crappy tests.

If you can't bend over and nibble at the tip of your penis you're mistyped.

Btw you're ridiculous.

[The Reality Denialist]

The qualities that conflictor might handle well but also makes fun of is quite serious business for a dual. LIE's are quite adept when trained to bombard people with ridiculous ideas. There is no real moment for wonder.
Whereas tecnically busting something do make SEI's quite amused and ESI's perhaps quite paranoid.

I also see the above description happening in LIE and ILI dynamic.

[sbbds]

You are quite disagreeable for someone of your type

What are you talking about lmao

Somewhere in the literature it says it’s impossible to argue with SLE

[sbbds]

Possibly, but it is my belief that experience with your conflictor in the past can really remove the beginning part of the relations in future interactions with new conflictor people. In other words, the more you spend time with any conflictor, the more “allergic” you get to your conflictor in general. I could be wrong but that’s been my experience.

No lmao. I’m like this with all people on this forum. It has nothing to do with Maritsa actually although yes we’re conflictors technically. Debating is just fun. It’s why I’m here.

Possibly but even conflict relationships pose as something sweet and nice at the beginning which is what attracts them rather than repels them. In conflicts which are easy to start SLE comes off as affirming positive inspiring inspirational and positive

I still love you Maritsa.

[Veromoni]

ILI are highly negative and can not stand LIE who are positive

It's not that ILI hates LIE positivity. LIE just could be seen as too reckless, ignoring all the possible bad outcomes. ILI are not negative on purpose. They don't like loose in life, it's better to be 100 percent sure of smth or having 5791136644 back up plans if something bad happens. ILI loves comfort and hates to gamble. (and yes, i am ILI, if you are wondering)

[End]

It's not that ILI hates LIE positivity. LIE just could be seen as too reckless, ignoring all the possible bad outcomes. ILI are not negative on purpose. They don't like loose in life, it's better to be 100 percent sure of smth or having 5791136644 back up plans if something bad happens. ILI loves comfort and hates to gamble. (and yes, i am ILI, if you are wondering)

I agree, but with a small yet very important caveat. Gambling sucks, but it is better to gamble for a potential total lottery win than it is to take the "safe" route where you only lose a little bit. Losing is losing, and if I have a chance to win rather than lose I'd rather much take the winning option. Besides, ya gotta trust your instincts. dominants have won proverbial empires going off that logic, why stop rolling those dice at the most opportune of moments now when it has always seemed to work out well more often than not according to history?

[Kill4Me]

It's rather easy to tell the two apart.

[Beautiful sky]

Something for you to learn is how to STFU. Directly quote what he said then if you’re good buddies, because as far as I know, the point of this positivism/negativism dichotomy is that they balance each other out in a good way. Of course there’s the general clash of opposites that comes with duality but Reinins in isolation are purely complementary.

A piece of evidence towards this is that all ITR only have half of the Reinins in complement, except for duality, which has them all in complementary pairs. So if Gulenko speaks against this he’s wrong af. Gulenko isn’t God. Reinins were made to highlight compatibility.

You didn’t need to tell him stfu

[Phantom]

I'd like to resurrect this thread, as I'm experiencing the same dilemma. Narrowed down my type to Gamma NT.

Here is a questionnaire I have attempted and some things I've written.

https://pastebin.com/a3NsP3Lj

"This morning, for some reason I thought about how we're all basically stacks of layered masquerades. Then I started thinking about how humans are inclined to form tribes, echo-chambers, and circlejerks. It's something unavoidable. I felt like there was something really animalistic in that, the way a large group of people can just unite over something and, more often than not, abandon rational thinking in favour of reinforcing whatever dominant beliefs the group might have, even choosing to avoid questioning them for the most part. Supporters of a sports team will hate another set of supporters simply because they're meant to, the primal motivations for doing so having really vanished a long time ago. Then I started thinking about how it was in fact this innate ability to form strong communities with common ideologies that basically gave us the advantage over other species in the caveman ages and instigated our development as the dominant species. I thought it was interesting that what initially differentiated us from animals is also something which occasionally reminds me that beneath all the masks and appearances, we can be just like them."

"Like it or not, Dubstep is the classical music of today. Not implying that Skrillex is as talented as Mozart but in 2200, our generation will probably be associated with dubstep just like the days of the Renaissance are associated with classical music. Dubstep is a perfect representation of the current generation because it screams what it's all about - technology. This is basic progression. Music changes with time." [I wrote this as a a teenager during the peak of dubstep, it probably looks silly now.]

"I was recently talking to someone about films I'd watched and I was reminded of how much I absolutely hated Jurassic World 2. Not just because it's not a good movie technically, my main complaints were about how fucked up it is morally, especially the ending. Basically, the dinosaurs in the zoo are going to be gassed to death but there is a button you can push to set them free. This little girl who is actually some kind of dinosaur/human mutant pushes the button and releases a host of carnivores into the civilian world, endangering lots of innocent lives. I'm not even that annoyed at the girl, I'm annoyed by the director presenting this as some kind of triumphant moment with the dramatic music and everything, not to mention none of the adults in the scene seem to have any problem with her decision because fuck real people apparently but these artificial, cloned creatures are more precious. Shit like this just pisses me off."

[Zero]

I'd like to resurrect this thread, as I'm experiencing the same dilemma. Narrowed down my type to Gamma NT.

Here is a questionnaire I have attempted and some things I've written.

https://pastebin.com/a3NsP3Lj

"This morning, for some reason I thought about how we're all basically stacks of layered masquerades. Then I started thinking about how humans are inclined to form tribes, echo-chambers, and circlejerks. It's something unavoidable. I felt like there was something really animalistic in that, the way a large group of people can just unite over something and, more often than not, abandon rational thinking in favour of reinforcing whatever dominant beliefs the group might have, even choosing to avoid questioning them for the most part. Supporters of a sports team will hate another set of supporters simply because they're meant to, the primal motivations for doing so having really vanished a long time ago. Then I started thinking about how it was in fact this innate ability to form strong communities with common ideologies that basically gave us the advantage over other species in the caveman ages and instigated our development as the dominant species. I thought it was interesting that what initially differentiated us from animals is also something which occasionally reminds me that beneath all the masks and appearances, we can be just like them."

"Like it or not, Dubstep is the classical music of today. Not implying that Skrillex is as talented as Mozart but in 2200, our generation will probably be associated with dubstep just like the days of the Renaissance are associated with classical music. Dubstep is a perfect representation of the current generation because it screams what it's all about - technology. This is basic progression. Music changes with time." [I wrote this as a a teenager during the peak of dubstep, it probably looks silly now.]

"I was recently talking to someone about films I'd watched and I was reminded of how much I absolutely hated Jurassic World 2. Not just because it's not a good movie technically, my main complaints were about how fucked up it is morally, especially the ending. Basically, the dinosaurs in the zoo are going to be gassed to death but there is a button you can push to set them free. This little girl who is actually some kind of dinosaur/human mutant pushes the button and releases a host of carnivores into the civilian world, endangering lots of innocent lives. I'm not even that annoyed at the girl, I'm annoyed by the director presenting this as some kind of triumphant moment with the dramatic music and everything, not to mention none of the adults in the scene seem to have any problem with her decision because fuck real people apparently but these artificial, cloned creatures are more precious. Shit like this just pisses me off."

I would say ILI, the Ni sounds almost beta, have you been in alot of contact with NF betas?