Type of a friend

[Jen Itilies]

I have a relationship with somebody who I'm currently trying to type, however I'm meeting with much difficulty as the person seems to be very hard to pigeon hole into a category.

I apologize but I feel it's necessary to play the pronoun game as I think people sometimes unknowingly allow gender to influence their opinion :wink: Here's a description of the person:

They're often unreasonably irritable or ill-tempered and contemptuous in their speech and behavior. They have a very crafty sort of intelligence about them but at the same time they have absolutely no ability (or apparent interest) to think things through to their logical conclusion. They think exactly as far as one step ahead, and sometimes not even that.

This person also seems to have narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies and is self absorbed to the point where they often do not notice their own failures, past or present.

They have the tendency to be paranoid over things (I remember hearing that this person is or used to be paranoid about germs. I'm not sure on this point as I haven't actually seen it for myself).
Despite all of their short comings this person is pretty humorous at times and can be fun to be around. They're very dramatic and are prone to speaking quite loudly to the point of screaming.

I hope that was enough information to at least get started. It's obvious that whatever type this person falls under they're probably damaged and do not represent their type.

[dreamer]

esfj? estp?

[FDG]

Unhealthy SF...ESFp me thinks.

[jewels]

sounds exactly like an ENTp I knew

[Blaze]

sounds entp sorry to say

[Expat]

Some EP type, probably > .

ENTp or ENFp; then ESFp or ESTp.

[Jen Itilies]

Sounds like ENTp is the majority vote thus far.
If possible could someone give a breakdown as to what makes this person an ENTp? The functions? Etc...

[Expat]

It's difficult but I'll try --

They're often unreasonably irritable or ill-tempered and contemptuous in their speech and behavior. They have a very crafty sort of intelligence about them but at the same time they have absolutely no ability (or apparent interest) to think things through to their logical conclusion. They think exactly as far as one step ahead, and sometimes not even that.

This broadly suggests someone irrational, and probably an EXXp.

This person also seems to have narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies and is self absorbed to the point where they often do not notice their own failures, past or present.

Well, this basically suggests an unhealthy person of any type, but in as far as the type is still a factor, it seems like an or dominant.

Despite all of their short comings this person is pretty humorous at times and can be fun to be around. They're very dramatic and are prone to speaking quite loudly to the point of screaming.

This might be preference of over . But I could also see an ENFp or ESFp acting like this.

My preference for ENTp is more due to the personality as a whole.

[Jen Itilies]

I see, so it's also highly possible this person could fall under the ESTp typing.

Is there anyway I can determine between whether this person is or dominant? Anything in particular I should keep an eye out for?

BTW thank you for all your help thus far

[Expat]

Well, the person is narcissistic and arrogant, but:

- if ENTp, the arrogance will be more like, "how dare you suggest you might be right and I might be wrong, that my views are incorrect? I will show how idiotic you are".

- if ESTp, the arrogance will be more like, "how dare you challenge me, how dare you question me? I will bully you into submission".

[Jen Itilies]

Mmm...this is very difficult. The person in question has actually done both equally.

They do not come across as a typical school yard bully but I have seen them do a few things I would consider physically violent (I saw the person randomly kick one of their friends when they were upset about some shortcoming on their own part).

The only other physical things I've seen them do is being highly intrusive to another's personal space. When they get passionate or confrontational about a subject they seem to feel the need to get directly into the other person's face. I'm not sure why this is but I've seen it happen several times. They have no difficulty physically reaching out and grabbing somebody while they speak, holding the other person's shoulders (almost like they're pinning the person down), etc...

On the other hand I've heard this person loudly announce that others are fools who they then proceed to argue with. They do seem to enjoy conflict and intellectual debate.

It's very hard to tell with this individual as they are very confrontational in both the intellectual and physical sphere.
I do remember once seeing them become very angry at one of their friends for questioning them. They grabbed the front of their friend's shirt and shouted: "Do not question [their name]!!" That's another thing I forgot to mention, they often refer to themselves in the 3rd person.


I am really starting to lean towards this person being either an ESTp or an ENTp as their hidden agenda certainly seems to be based on being loved and admired. They have loudly announced otherwise, stating that they don't need anybody but it seems perfectly clear (to me at least) that they do and that they really want to be loved but have absolutely no clue as to how to go about it aside from forcing their will on everybody around them.

[Expat]

From what you just wrote ESTp seems more like it.

[Jen Itilies]

Thank you very much for your help.

The main reason I was trying to figure out his type (yes I'm done with the pronoun game now ) is because I keep having the sneaking suspicion that he may be my dual, and I've never had luck on figuring out my type on my own.

I know duals usually don't notice each other but it was sort of impossible to not notice him. He's very loud and overbearing and seems to divert all the attention and energy of the room towards himself. In the beginning I really didn't like him and other people stood out as more interesting instead.

Over time however I've grown more and more interested in him, I find myself wanting to get to know him. He's never really acknowledged me which is discouraging yet also a bit relieving as I'm not sure I could endure his wrath When we do speak it's always in a business like fashion and he never exhibits any sign of wanting to dominate me or force me to direct my attention towards him like he does with others.

Does this sound like the beginnings of duality? Or is this maybe more reminescent of another relationship?

[Expat]

I know duals usually don't notice each other but it was sort of impossible to not notice him. He's very loud and overbearing and seems to divert all the attention and energy of the room towards himself. In the beginning I really didn't like him and other people stood out as more interesting instead.

I think the "duals don't notice each other" thingy can be taken too far; for instance, how not to notice such a loud person, or a very attractive person of the opposite sex? I would discount that.

Over time however I've grown more and more interested in him, I find myself wanting to get to know him. He's never really acknowledged me which is discouraging yet also a bit relieving as I'm not sure I could endure his wrath When we do speak it's always in a business like fashion and he never exhibits any sign of wanting to dominate me or force me to direct my attention towards him like he does with others.

Does this sound like the beginnings of duality? Or is this maybe more reminescent of another relationship?

I don't want to be too pessimistic but, if he's ESTp and he doesn't acknowledge you, chances are that he's simply not interested.

I can't say whether it's the beginning of duality. A better question is this. Obviously, not everyone would find him attractive; lots of people would find him a jerk. Are you usually attracted to people with those traits - they are part of your "ideal person"?

[Ms. Kensington]

[i]They're often unreasonably irritable or ill-tempered and contemptuous in their speech and behavior. They have a very crafty sort of intelligence about them but at the same time they have absolutely no ability (or apparent interest) to think things through to their logical conclusion. They think exactly as far as one step ahead, and sometimes not even that.

i am taking what you mean as crafty intelligence is an ability to see places that will be advantageous for him to move, figuratively or literally. He is probably good at it if you say it is an intelligence. The ability to think things through to their logical conclusion means what? Does this mean he is not good at planning for a trip? Does it mean he doesn't realize what he says will hurt other people? Then if you say he as no ability (if you're sure), it sounds like a polr.

This person also seems to have narcissistic and sociopathic tendencies and is self absorbed to the point where they often do not notice their own failures, past or present.

first could be any type, taken together with the second sentence sounds like an extraverted perceiver. Even though introverted perceivers can be very narcissistic and self absorbed, i noticed you said he does not notice his past failures, as if he has really forgotten them.. not so much that he does not learn from the past failure. It's a fine line..if one wills themselves to forget it can be really forgotten. Introverted perceivers in my opinion, are aware of their own failures but choose to ignore them, while extraverted perceivers seem to just not remember. This is more true of ENxps than ESxps in my experience-- their dominant minds are just everywhere

They have the tendency to be paranoid over things (I remember hearing that this person is or used to be paranoid about germs. I'm not sure on this point as I haven't actually seen it for myself).

In my experience the types that don't seem to care or notice germs are INFps, and to a lesser extent INFjs. you'll have to describe what they get paranoid over. that suggests Role and polr.

Despite all of their short comings this person is pretty humorous at times and can be fun to be around. They're very dramatic and are prone to speaking quite loudly to the point of screaming.

This could mean your relationship with them is good, or they are a Feeling perceiver, since they are usually described as fun. again, dramatic could mean tons of things.. Fe types are seen as dramatic... and prone to speaking loudly.. when? in any situation?

[Ms. Kensington]

The only other physical things I've seen them do is being highly intrusive to another's personal space. When they get passionate or confrontational about a subject they seem to feel the need to get directly into the other person's face. I'm not sure why this is but I've seen it happen several times. They have no difficulty physically reaching out and grabbing somebody while they speak, holding the other person's shoulders (almost like they're pinning the person down), etc...

oh well this sounds exxp.

What you described below sounds like it could be any type. But yes Fe HA... breaks my heart, and it's recognizable so. yeah.

[Jen Itilies]

I don't want to be too pessimistic but, if he's ESTp and he doesn't acknowledge you, chances are that he's simply not interested.

I'm more then aware that he isn't interested, but that doesn't stop me from feeling the way that I feel even if it's pointless.

I' have found myself sometimes wishing that he hated me because at least then he would think about and consider me. There are few things worse in this world then being overlooked and never thought of.

Are you usually attracted to people with those traits - they are part of your "ideal person"?

Yes, there are limits however and I usually dislike the person a bit at first. I like domineering types that are confident and dramatic. The forcefulness is attractive as well but I don't like it when people become sadistic and enjoys hurting others. That's where I draw the line.

You can tell with this guy that he just wants to be loved, I think that's one of the things that draws me to him. I know there's a another side of him that he won't allow many to see and I want to be there for that side to nurture it. I always grow to feel that way about people of that personality type. It could mean something else, it probably isn't necessarily duality and could be another type of relationship possibly within the same quadra.



@ Ms. Kensginton: Thank you for the informative posts. I'll get around to responding to them once I have some extra time

[Jen Itilies]

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this. I've been working some very odd hours.

i am taking what you mean as crafty intelligence is an ability to see places that will be advantageous for him to move, figuratively or literally. He is probably good at it if you say it is an intelligence.

Yes that's exactly right.

The ability to think things through to their logical conclusion means what? Does this mean he is not good at planning for a trip? Does it mean he doesn't realize what he says will hurt other people? Then if you say he as no ability (if you're sure), it sounds like a polr.

I'm not sure that he has no ability, it's only the way it appears to me. Though honestly I've never seen him plan well for things or consider peoples feelings before speaking.

i noticed you said he does not notice his past failures, as if he has really forgotten them.. not so much that he does not learn from the past failure. It's a fine line..if one wills themselves to forget it can be really forgotten.

That's the way it appears to me, but I can't speak truthfully on that as I honestly don't know what's going on in that mind of his. I wouldn't be surprised if he just completely forgot his failures as a psychological defense for his massive ego, also he's sort of forgetful anyways and is as you described all over the place. He DOES have alot of ideas, gotta give him credit for that. Maybe he has to push all the other things out of his mind to make room for everything flooding in :wink:

"In my experience the types that don't seem to care or notice germs are INFps, and to a lesser extent INFjs. you'll have to describe what they get paranoid over. that suggests Role and polr.

I can't really describe it as it's only something I've heard about. I've never seen it for myself, it may not even be true.

This could mean your relationship with them is good, or they are a Feeling perceiver, since they are usually described as fun. again, dramatic could mean tons of things.. Fe types are seen as dramatic... and prone to speaking loudly.. when? in any situation?

I only work with him off and on but everytime I see him he's always the same. I can't speak for his home life.