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Thread: Should you type by integration patterns?

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    Default Should you type by integration patterns?

    How seriously do you take disintegration/integration? I know it's kind of an integral aspect of enneagram theory, and I find it very interesting and cool, but deep down I feel it is not realistic at all. It's TOO perfect. And too open to interpretation.


    This is what I'm dealing with personally:
    I recently retyped from 7w6 to 9w1 but lately I've started to notice myself in old patterns of what I once considered integration/disintegration. The way I experienced this and described it as a 7 was that when I integrate to 5 I am suddenly very interested in some project and want to isolate myself from the world to work on it. My mind constantly coming back to that project even to my detriment. It's kind of an obsessive state. I'm oddly creative and productive and single-minded.

    I also have clear phases of what seems like integration to 1. Even though I'm usually pretty easy going and an underachiever, hate rules, don't like to tell people what to do, I will go through phases during stressful times in my life where I am suddenly neurotic, hyper-critical, and obsessed with justice and correctness.

    I think I integrate when I feel like I am in a relatively secure place and I'm not feuding with someone, having major money issues, etc., so I am able to relax and concentrate without my mind always coming back to some concern or guilt I'm trying to repress. Or just being distracted by worldly matters. The opposite causes me to disintegrate. When I feel a lot of guilt and stress or if I feel my job performance has dropped to an all time low and I'm tired of being criticized, I'll kind of go on the offensive, saying "Criticize me? I'll become perfect so no one can say shit and I'll criticize them so they know how it feels!"

    I think I could just as easily say this is 3-6-9 integration though I think. Becoming more productive at 3 and more super-ego-y at 6. But see, that's what I'm talking about. I could probably make a case for any type that way. Or none of this could be related to enneagram at all! It also kind of seems like I'm going back and forth between Creative and Normalizing subtypes.

    Sorry for the rambles. Thoughts?
    2w3 7w6 9w1 in some order, probably sexual.


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    There are some things I read about typology that just seem really unlikely. Enneagram integration and disintegration seem to fall in this category, but when I encounter something that sounds improbable, I reserve judgement until I have evidence one way or another.

    I am a male LIE and I have worked with a female EII for about eight years. I'm e8 and I used to think that she was e2 because she is so helpful, but she took several enneagram tests and they say she is an e9. Operationally, she works with numbers all day and is quite good at learning new subjects. She even has an accounting service that she does outside of work.

    I've been taking her to lunch from time to time for the past eight years (because we get along, not because I have any designs on her - I don't find her sexually attractive. Hell, she's an Infantile to my Victim, that is obvious). Four years ago, I got a divorce and last year, she got a divorce, and she has started to look around for a new partner.

    I have to say, our relationship is tracking exactly what Stratiyevkaya wrote in her article "Semi-duality Relations in INFj and ENTj by Stratiyevskaya". She wrote:

    It would seem that only the best can be expected from interaction of two such "sunny" positivist types - both radiate optimism, both are drawn to communicate, both are welcoming, friendly, and open to everything new. Both value amicable relations and both know how to be a friend (the aspect of the ethics of relations, Fi, is a priority value for both).

    EII and LIE quickly bridge the interpersonal distance, since for both of them it's often easier to get along with each other than with people of their dual types. Their duals, ESI and LSE, are Negativist, Asking types, who often keep a large interpersonal distance in social situations and make the impression of being rather cold and insular, with suspicion relating to anything new, including new people and acquaintances. Bridging the distance with a "negativist" dual, such as ESI and LSE, is often a difficult task – one has to overcome their "barrier of negativity", which requires a lot of effort in the absence of sufficiently high self-esteem. Thus, both EII and LIE often prefer the company of each other - the company of their "positivist" semi-dual type - instead of trying to relate to people of their dual types. Mutually valued ethics of relations (Fi) serves as the "signal beacon" for them to get to know one another and start closing the distance.

    The ENTj is attracted by the INFj's responsiveness, emotional sensitivity, helpfulness, his/her desire to be of service, to charm, to aid a friend, an inclination to sacrifice oneself for his/her partner (because something like this is also "coded" in the ethical program of LIE's dual, the ESI).

    Meanwhile, the EII finds attractive everything in the LIE that at least partially overlaps with the program aspect of "logic of actions" of EII's dual type LSE – LIE's persistence in achieving goals, logical acumen, inexhaustible energy, his preference for creativity and innovation – as well as by the characteristic traits of this type: LIE's cheerfulness and optimism.


    This would seem to be great on the face of it, except that the above is not all that Strat wrote about this relationship, a fact about which I am painfully aware. The EII, however, is not so sure that she needs brakes when she goes out with me. To her, it all just seems so wonderful. The fact that she sees the potential for more than friendship in our relationship is indicated by the fact that, rather than just having me stop by her office to meet before going to lunch together, she texted me to meet her far down the hall in front of the elevators, out of sight of the rest of the office. (Let me say right here that I've told her that I don't think she and I are a good romantic match. She's a valuable friend, though.)

    We went out to lunch today and the EII looked absolutely fantastic. She has Si and dresses with fantastic good taste, which is also what attracted me to my SLI ex-wife. Honestly, I can take this woman anywhere and be proud to be with her. After lunch, we got up from the table and I told her that she looked great today. She positively glowed on the walk back, which made me happy. I like her and she deserves to feel good about herself.

    As we were getting into the elevator to return to the office, her face suddenly fell into what I think of as an e9 face; long and stoic and emotionally remote. I've seen that face on forum members whom I think are e9's.

    Now, I've never seen her look like that before. Usually, she has a kind of e5, slightly rational face on, like the woman at 2:20 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Uu-VTXfRE. Still, that e9 face was so obvious.

    I looked up the integration-disintegration directions of an e9, and they integrate to e3 (glowing, walking on clouds, public face). So perhaps that is what happened. She normally hides her character in an e5-like caution, and then was brought out to an e3, and when she started thinking about work again, fell back into an unguarded e9.

    Or maybe I'm trying to gift wrap an elephant here. Hard to know for sure.

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    Sorcery! coeruleum's Avatar
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    Don't type by integration patterns. Integration patterns are inexorably included in the type. To use a music analogy, that's like expecting a C chord to sound like E or G. A C chord will sound like a C chord, and you can hear E and G if you know what to listen for, but it doesn't become an E or G chord even in first or second inversion and it's extremely unlikely to be confused for one even when you're not paying close attention.

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    Queen of the Damned Aylen's Avatar
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    One year later this thread gets a response.

    I agree that you shouldn't type based on integration/disintegration or VI. I don't think there is a long stoic type 9 face Adam. I mostly agree with the following:

    If You’re Confused About Your Enneagram Type, Read This
    By Heidi Priebe
    Updated April 5, 2019

    Like any personality system, the Enneagram has found itself embedded in a plethora of stereotypes.

    Fours are creative, yet dramatic. Ones are principled yet judgmental. Sevens are adventurous yet unreliable and nines are accepting yet spineless.

    Like so many other personality systems, we try to identify ourselves by lining our behaviours up against these stereotypes and determining which ones we most closely resemble. The problem with doing this is that many of us will identify with more than one stereotype.

    We’re ambitious, but also compassionate. We’re creative but also adventurous. We’re helpful but also intellectual. We’re powerful but also security seeking. We find ourselves lost in a sea of confusion over which type fits us the best of all and too often, we unknowingly place ourselves into the wrong category. This is the problem with using stereotypes to identify one’s personality type.

    So how do we properly identify ourselves?

    A lesser-known fact about the Enneagram is that it isn’t meant to be a system that merely identifies clusters of traits. The Enneagram is a dynamic, growth-oriented inventory that aims to pinpoint one’s basic fears and motivations, in order to facilitate personal growth through a specific trajectory.

    Which traits you utilize – helpfulness, creativity, dutifulness, etc. – are merely manifestations of your basic fears. But which behaviours you employ to escape your fears can be situational.

    A type six may tap into their creative side in order to please a mentor – to avoid their basic fear of being without support or guidance – and consequently mistake themselves for a type four. A type three may act dominant and assertive in order to progress professionally and mistake themselves for a type eight. When judging our type based on behaviour, we are at a high risk for mistyping ourselves.

    The only reliable method of identifying your type is to discover which of the nine basic fears guide the majority of your behaviour.


    The nine core fears – as listed in Don Richard Riso and Russ Hudson’s “The Wisdom Of The Enneagram” are as follows:

    Type 1 – The fear of being evil or corrupt.

    Type 1s strive to be morally upstanding and virtuous in the face of external corruption. Their pervasive, underlying fear is that they themselves are corrupt, and they must act in a virtuous way in order to prove this fear wrong. Their prime motivation in life is their own sense of integrity. They are constantly aiming to move away from corruption and towards virtue, or the greater good.

    Type 2 – The fear of being unloved or unwanted by others.

    Type 2s strive to be loved and wanted by those around them. Their pervasive, underlying fear is that there is nothing inherently loveable about them, and they must therefore help others in order to earn their love. Their prime motivation in life is proving themselves worthy of care and love from others. They are constantly aiming to move away from worthlessness and toward relationships that foster mutual loving and caregiving.

    Type 3 – The fear of being unaccomplished and worthless.

    Type 3s strive to achieve success within their community, believing it to be a measure of their own worth. This type’s pervasive, underlying fear is that they are inherently worthless and undesirable apart from their achievements, and they must therefore accomplish as much as possible in order to be desired and accepted by others. They are constantly aiming to move away from worthlessness and towards impressive achievements that will earn them the respect and admiration of others.

    Type 4 – The fear of lacking a unique, significant identity.

    Type 4s strive to prove their uniqueness and individuality to others. Their pervasive, underlying fear is that they would be worthless and unlovable if they were average, therefore they must cultivate as unique an identity as possible in order to prove their own significance. They are constantly aiming to move away from normalcy and towards expressions of intensity and individuality.

    Type 5 – The fear of being helpless and inadequate.

    Type 5s strive to become as knowledgeable and competent as possible in all of their undertakings. Their pervasive, underlying fear is of being helpless, overwhelmed and incapable of dealing with the world around them. Therefore, they must learn as much as they can and master as much as they can, in order to reassure themselves that they are competent and capable. They are constantly aiming to move away from ignorance and ambiguity, and toward knowledge and understanding.

    Type 6 – The fear of being without support or guidance.

    Type 6s strive to find support and guidance from those around them. Their pervasive, underlying fear is that they are incapable of surviving on their own, and they must therefore seek out as much support and direction from others as possible. They are constantly aiming to move away from isolation and towards structure, security and the guidance of others.

    Type 7 – The fear of deprivation and pain.

    Type 7s strive to achieve their wildest desires and find fulfillment. Their pervasive, underlying fear is that their needs and desires will not be met by others, and so they must go and pursue them themselves. They are constantly aiming to move away from pain, sadness and helplessness and towards independence, happiness and fulfillment.

    Type 8 – The fear of being harmed or controlled by others.

    Type 8s strive to become strong, independent and self-directed. Their pervasive, underlying fear is of being violated, betrayed or controlled while at the mercy of others. They feel secure and okay so long as they are in control of their circumstances. They are constantly aiming to move away from external limitations and toward self-sufficiency and power.

    Type 9 – The fear of loss and separation from others.

    Type 9s strive to maintain peace and harmony both internally and externally. Their pervasive, underlying fear is that they will become disconnected from others and out of sync with the world around them. They feel secure and okay as long as they are living in harmony with the people and world around them. They are constantly moving away from conflict and pain and toward peace, stability and harmony.
    I do agree with this:
    Note about basic fears: Though many of us possess more than one basic fear, you must evaluate your Enneagram type by identifying the fear that stands out as the most intense or horrifying to you – the one that perhaps elicits a physiological response when you encounter it and that you feel a drastic gut impulse to avoid. This will be a fear that you have experienced pervasively in your life, across a wide range of situations.
    https://thoughtcatalog.com/heidi-pri...ype-read-this/

    I have read most of the enneagram books and the way I finally accepted my type was by the part I bolded and basic/core desire. I would not use these short quotes to type myself either. That is why I read several different authors. Integration/disintegration is clear once you understand your core type. You can use tritype to narrow it down.


    The enneagram is a personality system that illustrates nine archetypal human character structures. The theory of the enneagram has been shrouded in mystery and debate. Some religious leaders, like Chris Heuertz and Franciscan Fr. Richard Rohr are Christian advocates of the system. Some religious leaders hate the enneagram, decrying its origins in the Sufi religion.


    Scientific validation of the enneagram test, also called the Riso-Hudson Enneagram Type Indicator (RHETI), started in 2004 with a dissertation published by Rebecca Newgent at the University of Akron. She favorably validated the RHETI against well-known five-factor instruments including the NEO-PR-I. The enneagram is used frequently by psychologists and counselors.


    But What Does the Enneagram Stand For?
    The enneagram is a pointed geometric figure that maps out nine personality types and their complex interrelationships. It is taken from the Greek word “nine”-ennea-and “figure”-grammos; making it a “nine-pointed figure”. According to the theory behind the enneagram, each of us is born with a dominant type (one of the numbers 1-9). These numbers are then connected by arrows in significant patterns which point the way towards health (integration) and neurosis (disintegration). You can find out more about the nine enneagram types here.


    What Does the Enneagram Have to do with Fear?
    The psychology of the enneagram states that each personality type has a core fear that drives them. This fear is something we defend against with our basic desire. For example, if someone fears being controlled by others, their basic desire would be to have freedom, which might deteriorate into escapism.


    https://www.psychologyjunkie.com/201...nneagram-type/
    Someone made a thread of enneagram links that should be a sticky. You can check those out too.
    Last edited by Aylen; 12-05-2019 at 09:32 AM.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



  5. #5
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    No, that sounds ineffective. If you’re new with the enneagram the integration/disintegration is hard to grasp. Look at the whole descriptions of a type, what motives the type and how that fuels the behavior patterns in their life.

    If a person is a 3 for example, that means their disintegration/integration lines are interconnected (3-6-9) and it’d be hard to tell apart what is unhealthy behavior that’s type and what comes from the disintegration type. Disintegration doesn’t make you actually act like that type fully, just take certain unhealthy traits from them. Sorry this is kind of incomprehensable I’m in class lol.

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    It would be more useful to look at disintegration. With all the chaos in our lives, we’re more likely to be unhealthy or fall into unhealthy patterns than we are to reach enlightenment. But I don’t think the lines are limited to just your core type - I believe they exist in all the types in your tritype. For example, I have heavy expressions of both 7 to 1 AND 2 to 8 with my respective 7 and 2 fixes. Which are disintegration points that already look similar, IMO, so you’re most likely going to have similar disintegration points in your personality.

    But you shouldn’t type yourself just off one factor like this, use em all.
    And I'm what you desire, like a siren in the night



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