Ganin's B&W LIE Sketches for reference

[vesstheastralsilky]

Oh, never mind my promotion of other people's sketches because of mixed Quadra and label mix-ups. Never mind that I endorsed these both as ENTJ because one is different. Maybe one day I will make my own sketches and post them. *sigh* :frustration:

[Sanguine Miasma]

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[timber]

hah.

[vesstheastralsilky]

Troll Mr 007, very impressive match!!

It was uncanny to go from seeing the sketches to watching them come to life in this video. I did not watch all of it but anyway, I appreciate your contribution.

[Sanguine Miasma]

Yeah lol, Jack Aaron is LIE in my book. [Besides Fi seems to be suggestive being totally at sea and lots of stuff rings true with Strati's profile.]

[Adam Strange]

Yeah lol, Jack Aaron is LIE in my book. [Besides Fi seems to be suggestive being totally at sea and lots of stuff rings true with Strati's profile.]

He doesn’t act like any other LIE whom I know.
Personally, I see lots of Ti.

”I’ve always been fixated by structure.”

[Sanguine Miasma]

Well, his lack of fears would be pretty strange for Fi PoLR. Instead "lets be friends no matter what" is very suggestive position where person can not really trust it.


Anyways, he has honed in acting skills.

[Desert Financial]

Skip to 4:25. There's your proof that he's ENTj.

[Adam Strange]

He consistently strikes me as creepy and weird. His clothes, his mannerisms, his speech patterns, his prissiness, all seem incredibly jarring to me. I just never get that impression from other LIE’s. I do get that impression sometimes from Alpha NT’s, though.

Other LIE’s can seem to me to be obnoxious jerks or dangerous assholes, but I can always understand them and see where they are coming from. We easily “click”, even when we don’t agree with each other. But Aaron seems to me to be one unpleasant experience after another.

Watching that video requires a huge amount of effort, as if I have to do a lot of information transforms to follow him and predict where he’s going. That seems more like interactions between opposing Quadras than between Identicals.

[Sanguine Miasma]

So, I find some ILE's the most obnoxious people there are... (especially dominant ones)

[Desert Financial]

He consistently strikes me as creepy and weird. His clothes, his mannerisms, his speech patterns, his prissiness, all seem incredibly jarring to me. I just never get that impression from other LIE’s. I do get that impression sometimes from Alpha NT’s, though.

Other LIE’s can seem to me to be obnoxious jerks or dangerous assholes, but I can always understand them and see where they are coming from. We easily “click”, even when we don’t agree with each other. But Aaron seems to me to be one unpleasant experience after another.

Watching that video requires a huge amount of effort, as if I have to do a lot of information transforms to follow him and predict where he’s going. That seems more like interactions between opposing Quadras than between Identicals.

What's wrong? You don't like the red suspenders? Lol.

[Sanguine Miasma]

Jack's sub type? I think it is probably C. LIE-C. dominants can not usually take C's seriously.

[Adam Strange]

Jack's sub type? I think it is probably C. LIE-C. dominants can not usually take C's seriously.

What? You don't want him as an Identical either?

[Desert Financial]

Jack Oliver in video form:

[Wavebury]

I have interacted with him in the past, albeit minimally. I never got the impression he was gamma or LIE.

My feeling towards him is similar to Adam's btw.

[Sanguine Miasma]

DarkAngelFireWolf69 has labelled Jack as LIE as well.

[niko]

The validity of VI is still a big question mark to me. Sure, you can have different facial expressions depending on your type. But your entire entire facial composition being determined by your type?! Doesn't really sound right.
VI also doesn't take into account that not everyone is White/Caucasian. I am pretty sure there are Asian, African, etc... ENTj's. That is understandable though, considering the locations where socionics originated.
Another things is that, assuming those two sketches are really what ENTj's look like, most of the people typed as such would be mistypes.

Being new to socionics, however, means I have not yet researched nearly as much as some people around here, so I am open to changing my mind, given enough evidence. This being true would also definitely de-ENTj-ify me, since I look nothing like those two sketches. Especially compared to the first one.

That Jack guy though vibes as a Ne dominant to me. I am also not sure I'd get along with him irl. He reminds me of people who very badly want to get punched in the face.

[Lord Panda]

The validity of VI is still a big question mark to me. Sure, you can have different facial expressions depending on your type. But your entire entire facial composition being determined by your type?! Doesn't really sound right.
VI also doesn't take into account that not everyone is White/Caucasian. I am pretty sure there are Asian, African, etc... ENTj's. That is understandable though, considering the locations where socionics originated.
Another things is that, assuming those two sketches are really what ENTj's look like, most of the people typed as such would be mistypes.

Being new to socionics, however, means I have not yet researched nearly as much as some people around here, so I am open to changing my mind, given enough evidence. This being true would also definitely de-ENTj-ify me, since I look nothing like those two sketches. Especially compared to the first one.

That Jack guy though vibes as a Ne dominant to me. I am also not sure I'd get along with him irl. He reminds me of people who very badly want to get punched in the face.

I don't trust VI at all either, and I have been into Socionics for a while. So you're definitely not alone in that

[Adam Strange]

The validity of VI is still a big question mark to me. Sure, you can have different facial expressions depending on your type. But your entire entire facial composition being determined by your type?! Doesn't really sound right.
VI also doesn't take into account that not everyone is White/Caucasian. I am pretty sure there are Asian, African, etc... ENTj's. That is understandable though, considering the locations where socionics originated.
Another things is that, assuming those two sketches are really what ENTj's look like, most of the people typed as such would be mistypes.

Being new to socionics, however, means I have not yet researched nearly as much as some people around here, so I am open to changing my mind, given enough evidence. This being true would also definitely de-ENTj-ify me, since I look nothing like those two sketches. Especially compared to the first one.

That Jack guy though vibes as a Ne dominant to me. I am also not sure I'd get along with him irl. He reminds me of people who very badly want to get punched in the face.

Strangely enough, I can identify types* in Asians and Africans by VI. Whatever it is I'm seeing, it goes beyond local origin.

I've been talking with an African-American SLI Jehovah's Witness for years. A month ago I met his daughter and BAM in two seconds I saw that she was ESI. Further conversation with her just confirmed that.

Whatever the source of type is, it also drives the muscles of your face, so you can often see the person's type from their facial expressions. This is probably why @Sol prefers multiple pics or videos to identify type. I do, too.

* I can identify certain types better than others. Race doesn't seem to affect my accuracy, but age and quadral distance does.

[Sanguine Miasma]

Another LIE

[Sanguine Miasma]

That Jack guy though vibes as a Ne dominant to me. I am also not sure I'd get along with him irl. He reminds me of people who very badly want to get punched in the face.

Amalgamation of Don Quixote? ILE's look more like they need to some sort of anti psychotics. Ej is in your face type typically.

[niko]

Strangely enough, I can identify types* in Asians and Africans by VI. Whatever it is I'm seeing, it goes beyond local origin.

I've been talking with an African-American SLI Jehovah's Witness for years. A month ago I met his daughter and BAM in two seconds I saw that she was ESI. Further conversation with her just confirmed that.

Whatever the source of type is, it also drives the muscles of your face, so you can often see the person's type from their facial expressions. This is probably why @Sol prefers multiple pics or videos to identify type. I do, too.

* I can identify certain types better than others. Race doesn't seem to affect my accuracy, but age and quadral distance does.

So what you're saying, if I understood correctly, is that it has become instinctive to you. Just like one can tell, for example, when someone is lying based on subconsciously picking up small facial expressions. If that's the case with VI, than I agree, as I mentioned in my post.
However, I do not agree with static pictures, let alone sketches. Although the ENTj description I read on socionics.com had a physical appearance description in it, which did indeed fit me (square shoulders, salesman smile, full lips, etc...). Called it off as a coincidence.

What's quadral distance? I'd guess it's implication would be that a member, let's say from Gamma, may resemble Beta and Delta somewhat, but no Alpha.

[Adam Strange]

So what you're saying, if I understood correctly, is that it has become instinctive to you. Just like one can tell, for example, when someone is lying based on subconsciously picking up small facial expressions. If that's the case with VI, than I agree, as I mentioned in my post.
However, I do not agree with static pictures, let alone sketches. Although the ENTj description I read on socionics.com had a physical appearance description in it, which did indeed fit me (square shoulders, salesman smile, full lips, etc...). Called it off as a coincidence.

What's quadral distance? I'd guess it's implication would be that a member, let's say from Gamma, may resemble Beta and Delta somewhat, but no Alpha.

Yes, exactly. I actually seem a tiny bit like ILE's sometimes, but that resemblance disappears with a few minutes exposure.

And I just spend so little time with Alphas that I haven't accumulated enough face time to recognize them most of the time.

I have two sets of cousins. One set is Beta and one is Alpha, and the Alphas always seemed like aliens to me. Nice people, but I have absolutely no points in common with them.

Incidentally, my Delta parents were fine with the Alphas but hated the Betas, while I really liked the Betas and just didn’t understand the Alphas.

[niko]

Amalgamation of Don Quixote? ILE's look more like they need to some sort of anti psychotics. Ej is in your face type typically.

Most of the people I'm frequently in contact with are my age (early 20s or a bit younger), and those who are Ep always seem more in your face. Ej people seem more controlled to me.
I would very much like to meet a mature and/or older Ep (especially ENp)

[niko]

Yes, exactly. I actually seem a tiny bit like ILE's sometimes, but that resemblance disappears with a few minutes exposure.

And I just spend so little time with Alphas that I haven't accumulated enough face time to recognize them most of the time.



I have two sets of cousins. One set is Beta and one is Alpha, and the Alphas always seemed like aliens to me. Nice people, but I have absolutely no points in common with them.

You got me interested now. Where can I post my photograph/video?

EDIT: I agree with Alphas seeming very different. I secretly envy them sometimes. I think people around me were generally alphas and betas, so I always felt out of place. I was never able to participate in the common atmosphere.
Also, I've not got along with betas much either. But then again, most of them were immature.

[Adam Strange]

You got me interested now. Where can I post my photograph/video?

EDIT: I agree with Alphas seeming very different. I secretly envy them sometimes. I think people around me were generally alphas and betas, so I always felt out of place. I was never able to participate in the common atmosphere.
Also, I've not got along with betas much either. But then again, most of them were immature.

@niko, You can post a video in the Type Me Introductions section, and you can post personal pictures in The Unofficial Member’s picture thread. I might have those names wrong, since I use things conditionally and forget everything else.

[vesstheastralsilky]

He doesn’t act like any other LIE whom I know.
Personally, I see lots of Ti.

”I’ve always been fixated by structure.”

He talks about how systems work during the first several minutes of the video going forward and back Willy nilly in time. This is Te data and Ni rationality, not logic (Ti).

[Sanguine Miasma]

Well static style of interaction is usually prefers "rambling" about own views/definitions and not directly talking with people.

An example of ILE(-D)

And look at the topic: Does God Try to Get More Gays in Hell?
Especially phrasing part. That is true Ne.

[vesstheastralsilky]

So, I find some ILE's the most obnoxious people there are... (especially dominant ones)

Hehhhhh no not really

Obnoxious is often subjective.

[vesstheastralsilky]

The validity of VI is still a big question mark to me. Sure, you can have different facial expressions depending on your type. But your entire entire facial composition being determined by your type?! Doesn't really sound right.
VI also doesn't take into account that not everyone is White/Caucasian. I am pretty sure there are Asian, African, etc... ENTj's. That is understandable though, considering the locations where socionics originated.
Another things is that, assuming those two sketches are really what ENTj's look like, most of the people typed as such would be mistypes.

Being new to socionics, however, means I have not yet researched nearly as much as some people around here, so I am open to changing my mind, given enough evidence. This being true would also definitely de-ENTj-ify me, since I look nothing like those two sketches. Especially compared to the first one.

That Jack guy though vibes as a Ne dominant to me. I am also not sure I'd get along with him irl. He reminds me of people who very badly want to get punched in the face.

VI is difficult for most to get it right but it has merit. Trepidation from newbies is not amiss. But the fact remains, there exist standard cognitive processes which yield characteristic expressions and outward emanations of decorum and behavior.

There are even professional Socionics references where what one theorist calls ENFJ the next might call INFJ. Then there are all those dang profiles. The more one adapts to others and the world, one could develop any number of ways that can start to obscure true base natural type. It can depend on how accepted one was early in life and provided for or what kind of challenges had to be overcome therefore more functions may have been honed to create a more self actualized ie well rounded person. But I digress.

My advice of what I have learned most over the years is that having a complete map of personal natural intertype relations you can use as a guide is very much an excellent validator of type essences. So never get too dependent on other methods without incorporating the gold of Socionics: relational predictability over time.

[chriscorey]

Skip to 4:25. There's your proof that he's ENTj.

Are you serious? I used to talk to him on Personality Nation Forum years ago and he typed as ENTP.. I'm not sure how he types in socionics. He was really silly on the forum if I recall correctly, and also one of the biggest trolls out there. I think he was a stage actor or something... pretty hard to type. I won't even attempt to type him because he's hardly ever being serious.

[niko]

VI is difficult for most to get it right but it has merit. Trepidation from newbies is not amiss. But the fact remains, there exist standard cognitive processes which yield characteristic expressions and outward emanations of decorum and behavior.

There are even professional Socionics references where what one theorist calls ENFJ the next might call INFJ. Then there are all those dang profiles. The more one adapts to others and the world, one could develop any number of ways that can start to obscure true base natural type. It can depend on how accepted one was early in life and provided for or what kind of challenges had to be overcome therefore more functions may have been honed to create a more self actualized ie well rounded person. But I digress.

My advice of what I have learned most over the years is that having a complete map of personal natural intertype relations you can use as a guide is very much an excellent validator of type essences. So never get too dependent on other methods without incorporating the gold of Socionics: relational predictability over time.

I completely agree with the bolded and I have noticed it myself too. When Te dominant people talk I always feel like they could be slamming a gavel or their fist against the table to accentuate what they are saying. Very clear kind of communication which I really enjoy. Or Se people's calm and abrasive/sarcastic look. Those are only two of the behaviors I have noticed (I enjoy observing people and knowing how they act over time).
However, I see no reason why, an ENTj in our case, should look like those sketches? Or am I completely missing the point? Especially the first sketch, I have genuinely never seen anyone close to that. The second one looks like a blond Connery though, who happens to be ENTj (and good looking).

I'll make sure to read more about intertype relations when I manage to find some more time.

[vesstheastralsilky]

Hmm, is this guy the same type as author Madeleine L'Engle who wrote A Wrinkle in Time?? Hmmmm

But if they are LIEs they are a different subtype than others I have known better.

[Sol]

Strangely enough, I can identify types* in Asians and Africans by VI. Whatever it is I'm seeing, it goes beyond local origin.

I can too and some are in my lists. But it looks harder for me to identify types of asians and blacks. The visual difference is additional noise to tune on the impressions. After more of IRL communication or video typing of those races it may become easier.

> Whatever the source of type is, it also drives the muscles of your face, so you can often see the person's type from their facial expressions. This is probably why @Sol prefers multiple pics or videos to identify type. I do, too.

It's general for those who uses nonverbal. The more and different data - the more correct its understanding. There can be different situations and to see a human in several of them helps to notice what is stable as the Jung's type. Also a single photo may to have much of self-control. Natural behavior is easier to notice from several photos. The similar is with clips.

The first videotyping experiment which I did (seems in 2014) used a single video clip per a human. The 2nd used only bloggers with channels and had the recommendation to watch at least 2 of a clips from a blogger's channel. The 2nd experiment have given significantly higher typing matches between typers than the 1st. So it's objectively useful to see the same human in slighly different contexts (like several photos, clips, IRL situations) to understand his type.

>* I can identify certain types better than others. Race doesn't seem to affect my accuracy, but age and quadral distance does.

age may add troubles also. for example, nonverbal of old people mb lesser expressive and hence to give lesser clear impressions

quadral distance has no negative effect on me.
other important is my IRL experience - longer, more of the quantity, higher significance of the interaction with people of those types, the easier for me to notice these types

[Cosmic Teapot]

I don't think he's LIE

Transcript starting at 35min 20 sec


I just admire myself. I don't really criticize myself. I can identify a weakness in myself - or a "bad thing" in myself but I have this, like, healthy bubble of narcissism I got from being called a special child by my parents for years, so being the oldest, the special... and yeah etc ... gifted and yada yada yada - so I didn't really develop a sense of "oh I'm bad at things- I'm terrible of things - I'm awful etc." My sister has *plenty* of that btw she is very much self-critical but I'm not.

To me- when someone says something bad about me I say "Oh! It makes me unique!" *claps hands* So, I don't really take that on as a bad thing - sure [if] it's getting in the way of what I wanna do - I'll try to fix it - but I don't say "Oh, I'm critical and Oh, I'm bad, I'm a bad person - I'm obsolete and deficient" - I just think "hm, ok, I'm defunct in something but that makes me cool- uuhm- not "cool" - unique. I'm never cool- very rarely - some people could be cool, usually small children - they always find me cool *rubs chin* - that tells me more about them than about myself, I guess

- uhm-but-uhm yeah - what was I saying? - Can't remember - yeah! Those are things I don't criticize myself [for].

[Si-DS and Fe-HA, Alpha Quadra]
Ok, now - my ideal environment: *mumbles* ideal environment *mumbles* people are free to do whatever they want when they want. I like this free open-ended environment. Lots of comfort, good food, emotional vibrancy. I like people expressing happiness, I like happy surroundings. I like that Hakuna Matata attitude - like in lion king, that's the sort of [thing] that feels like my ideal. Also i need more technology and interesting things and *mumbles* oh and I like beautiful nature - also being in touch with technology as well; lots of new things that developments can bring me. I essentially want to live forever and see what kinds of new things are *mumbles* in the next few centuries.

[Fi-Polr]
Also I want an environment free of obligations and being told what to do - like "You have a moral responsibility, so look after your fellow men", for instance *mumbles* I said no, no I don't, I didn't consent to that at all. If I committed to that - sure- bit I don't - Instead - I - I like doing nice things for other people because that makes them happy, which makes me happy because I got happy people around me, so I'm happy - but I don't, uhm, I never liked the idea of saying I ought to do someth... - if some say I ought to do some- morally I react the other way and actually become more antisocial. I reject that particular philosophy *mumbles* instead it's more about me, what I want. And if that involves helping others then that's good. And that's healthy!


stopped at 38min 4sec

[Cosmic Teapot]

What about him? I can't really tell atm what are your opinions? (@everyone)

[Adam Strange]

^ I get a hint of an SLI type. He’s smarter and more ambitious than average.

[Cosmic Teapot]

^ I get a hint of an SLI type. He’s smarter and more ambitious than average.

Agree. That makes more sense.

[sbbds]

Jack is a vapid cult leader who has joked about being a sociopath in the past. Not worth giving a type. Next.

[Sanguine Miasma]

I do agree that Jack might be ILE if we take apply all the typical temperament based actions. It is actually remarkable similarity based on descriptions.

I think doing typing on temperament based actions is not the right way to go about it.

Temperament based behavior once you go past first stages you will notice how static and dynamic people interact and how it is complementary when it is combined. Statics won't usually discuss with you directly and dynamics won't usually define terms.

Like there are ESI's who look remarkably like SEI's and vice versa but soon it fades away. It actually helps if you notice them while they are not aware of you.

Another example of ILE