View Poll Results: Allocentric vs egocentric, handedness and left/right problems

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  • Allocentric, right handed, no l/r problems

    6 40.00%
  • Allocentric, right handed, l/r problems

    1 6.67%
  • Allocentric, left handed, no l/r problems

    1 6.67%
  • Allocentric, left handed, l/r problems

    1 6.67%
  • Allocentric, mixed handed, no l/r problems

    1 6.67%
  • Allocentric, mixed handed, l/r problems

    0 0%
  • Egocentric, right handed, no l/r problems

    1 6.67%
  • Egocentric, right handed, l/r problems

    1 6.67%
  • Egocentric, left handed, no l/r problems

    1 6.67%
  • Egocentric, left handed, l/r problems

    0 0%
  • Egocentric, mixed handed, no l/r problems

    0 0%
  • Egocentric, mixed handed, l/r problems

    0 0%
  • No preference, right handed, no l/r problems

    1 6.67%
  • No preference, right handed, l/r problems

    0 0%
  • No preference, left handed, no l/r problems

    1 6.67%
  • No preference, left handed, l/r problems

    0 0%
  • No prefrence, mixed handed, no l/r problems

    0 0%
  • No preference, mixed handed, l/r problems

    0 0%
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Thread: Your default mode of spatial processing: Allocentric vs egocentric. + Handedness

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    Default Your default mode of spatial processing: Allocentric vs egocentric. + Handedness

    Especially in this case picture tells more than 1000 words.


    Anyways like pic tells this relates to your visual coding of your environment. Most people are apparently egocentric. I have asked people about this and some are completely out of comprehension when I introduce them allocentric processing. OTOH I do not really understand egocentric spatial processing.

    There are claims that allocentric people have more problems with left and right processing. It also relates to handedness.

    I'm allocentric, have problems distinguishing left and right. I also have bit of mixed handedness but I'm right handed.
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    c esi-se 6w7 spsx ashlesha's Avatar
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    Weird. Constant allocentric perception sounds fake lol

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    Great thread topic! I've wondered if this is type related.

    I happen to be egocentric. Sometimes when I enter a "flow" state or achieve a level of high competency in something, I'll go allocentric. For example, if I've been driving for hours, I'll get used to the rhythm of it and start seeing things from a "bird's eye" angle, including my car and all the cars around me. When I was very young, I was more allocentric, too. But, by default, I'd say I'm probably egocentric these days.

    I dated an IEI who was allocentric. This difference create some discrepancies in communication and generally how we navigated the world.

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    This is why when people ask for directions on the street I have to turn the way I'm facing and move my hands around.

    @A Moderator would it be too personal to talk about the communication differences? I'm intrigued.

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    Oh wow, this is interesting. Well I think I'm a little bit of both egocentric and allocentric, they both make sense to me. The egocentric processing probably comes a little more easily, though. I kind of remember developing the allocentric processing through practice. At this point, they're about equal.

    Also, I'm quite a lot better at object visualization (shapes, colors, and textures) than spacial vizualization, which takes a lot more mental energy for me.

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    Primarily allocentric perception for me, but sometimes I use egocentric perception.

    Difficult to tell (for myself) if I'm right handed or mixed handed, because there are working tasks where I tend to prefer to use my left hand.

    Most of the time I've no problems to distinguish left from right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    @A Moderator would it be too personal to talk about the communication differences? I'm intrigued.
    No. What do you want to know?

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    c esi-se 6w7 spsx ashlesha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    No. What do you want to know?
    Were the communication differences and "navigation of the world" limited to spatial things, or did you mean more generally?

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    divine, too human WVBRY's Avatar
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    Egocentric here.

    Right handed. I used to have alot of problems telling left from right when younger, since the categories seemed arbitrary. But now, to know my right from left, I'll just think which hand I would use if I had to write or perform a task with it, and that solves the problem.

    I also think I have good object visualization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    Were the communication differences and "navigation of the world" limited to spatial things, or did you mean more generally?
    It wasn't limited to spacial things.

    One of our differences lied in how we see ourselves in the eyes of others. She basically relied on the allocentric processing to gauge how others saw her, which she put confidence in. On the other hand, I basically have to ask people how they see me or use cognitive empathy from a more subjective, personal place. When we realized we saw the world this differently, she kind of freaked out. She often thought I looked awkward or odd in public, and up until the point when we realized our difference in processing, she probably wondered why the hell I lacked the vantage point she had.

    In terms of how we differed in more impersonal kinds of navigation, we generally had a different frame of reference guiding us. We traveled quite a bit, and in hindsight, it was as though her allocentric view of things naturally "pulled her along", like the sail on a boat or the top of a hot air balloon uplifting its passengers. This gave her a faster pace. Meanwhile, I had more trepidation because, I suppose, coming from a more subjective vantage point, I didn't see around the same corners she did, so to speak. And, generally, I was more stubborn in the sense that I came at things from an angle of self preservation. Probably some differences in decisiveness vs. judicious here, as well.

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    I feel like this is set up as an either/or but most people can do both depending on the situation. for example if im in a new environment I can begin mapping stuff but if I don't know it to begin with its hard to take a birds eye perspective. meanwhile I may take a birds eye perspective but if Im giving directions to a person I might think in terms of what theyll see as they navigate from the first person perspective in order to make sure they get to where theyre going (they by definition are forced into a first person perspective if they're asking for directions about an unknown)... it just depends. I think in general people just do first person thinking until they map out an area and then have a mental map of the area. you obviously can't literally see from a camera off to the corner or based on some central object, so its all perspective taking oriented around some point or other. allocentric just seems to be a perspective "high" up or what have you. if you default to a birds eye thats sort of werid since its full of gaps. it sounds like one must switch to first person to even take notice of whats in front of you in order to fill out the map.. maybe this has to do with the relationship between perceiving functions and conscious/unconscious. perhaps Ne base types do think more maplike and experience their first person perspective more subconsciously or some version of that

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    If people employ these viewpoints on a basis of what's needed, it makes sense that social influences that demand specific attitudes could increase the chances of an individual having either egocentric or allocentric views.

    For example, in the U.S., individualism dominates our culture and we encourage it to promote success in individualistic systems like capitalism. Capitalism revolves around how the individual (or subject) gains profit (or object). So, maybe there's a higher propensity for egocentric attitudes to surface.

    On the other hand, in collectivistic cultures like those of East Asia, Africa, and the Middle East, the needs of the community are emphasized over the needs of the individual. So, maybe there's a higher propensity for allocentric attitudes to surface.

    Finland (where @Troll Nr 007 is from) is considered individualistic, but it probably has more collectivistic elements than those of the U.S. What do you think, @Troll Nr 007? If my theory is incorrect, it means that innate personality differences play a bigger role than social differences in how your attitude differs from mine.

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    I'm pretty almost everyone is egocentric before they get trained in a task that requires allocentric directions except some tribes in Australia that don't have words in their language for left and right, and they have a complex task they get trained in called hunting. If you can drive you can probably do both fine though. In fact, they seem too abstract for people to be constantly be doing only one or the other at all. Like if you see an object in front of you, you aren't thinking about how much you have to turn to get to the object to the side of it, you're just thinking the object is to the side of it.

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    I'm a bad driver in a sense if we wiev it as a talent. I just have to be very careful. I have passed the test but instructor did not get my method how I manage it. I have problems telling left from right. Generally I do not learn by directions - I just use my brain to understand relations and then code those things into movements of my own body. I have no sense of being bodily synced with people.
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    Default also, I NEVER measure distance with "blocks" or time expectancy

    never considered this

    Allocentric main; if I'm far away from stuff, and I want to be closer, I move that way. I see what I see, I also have a map of the layout in mind, often from last time I saw it. Insides of buildings will have a sort of local north, "the back", and I'll grid out the place from there. A lot of the estimates come from expecting right angles at every intersection, and for paths to continue as if in a grid. West USA road networks threw me kinda big here. I have direction not just position now, being on the left of a road is drastically different from being on the right, and both need movement. Anything too convoluted re: directions gets thrown in the mystery box, I stay out of there for now.

    Ambidextrous with caveats; left-hand writing is sloppier and it means my hand gets smeared with ink. Left arm has more power and steadiness, right arm has more finesse; if I need a third limb to use, it's usually the right foot. Full left-handed drummer at first, but most kits were rightie, and all the bands shared drums to an extent, so what was left on stage was optimized for drumming rightie, so I used right leg to kick.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    Finland (where @Troll Nr 007 is from) is considered individualistic, but it probably has more collectivistic elements than those of the U.S. What do you think, @Troll Nr 007? If my theory is incorrect, it means that innate personality differences play a bigger role than social differences in how your attitude differs from mine.
    It is like having mentality to not to tell others what to do. Having freedom to be yourself (if person manages to not care about peer pressure). However it is not about thinking in terms of "winner takes it all". Taxation system is heavier towards higher earning people [unless they manage to circumvent it]. It is usually frowned upon if you show off.
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    I can easily do mental rotations of objects in space and I generally have an x-ray view of objects in any orientation, meaning that I can relate all their internal parts to each other and mentally rotate the objects in space. Drawing this stuff is trivially easy for me.

    I have a very poor sense of where I am in a building or in a city. If I want to figure out how to get from where I am to where I want to go, I have to imagine individual scenes or spaces and connect them together in my head.

    My sense of left and right is fluid. I've given up telling drivers to turn left or right, because I seem to consistently reverse them. I'll think, "Hmm, we have to turn left up here" and I'll say "Turn right" while somehow thinking that I said "Turn left". I now say "Turn your way" or "Turn my way", because this reliably relates the orientation of the car's occupants to that of the space around us, whereas relating my own orientation to the driver's is not reliable.

    I throw left and bat right.

    I think the above means I'm allocentric, and I consider myself to be left-handed.

    I find it interesting to compare the question of centricity orientations to socionics types. I tend to be fairly ego-less in discussions and suppress my Fi while making use of my impartial Te. I try not to place myself or my viewpoint into discussions when I'm gathering information or acting on it.
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    I’m left-handed and I think I can’t feel my own body.

    I also don’t think these are mutually exclusive and it doesn’t make sense to classify them as completely separate. The difference is more philosophical than spatial, objectively speaking.

    Say you’re looking at a map allocentrically from your bird’s eye view. You are still mentally visualizing from a “first person” vantage point (above) at all times. The 4 directions have a central starting point anyway, and you need to use the same orientations when thinking egocentrically; it’s just the objective orientations are implicit here while they are explicit in the allocentric version. Therefore these are two versions of the exact same thing, albeit the allocentric kind is a bit more detached.

    Or maybe I just think allocentrically primarily and I’m crazy. I use maps a lot in my daily life so that might explain it too. I also spend a lot of time trying to navigate in the dark and move to unfamiliar places a lot and have to re-orient and navigate there.
    Last edited by sbbds; 10-04-2018 at 11:38 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I’m left-handed and I think I can’t feel my own body.

    I also don’t think these are mutually exclusive and it doesn’t make sense to classify them as completely separate. The difference is more philosophical than spatial, objectively speaking.

    Say you’re looking at a map allocentrically from your bird’s eye view. You are still mentally visualizing from a “first person” vantage point (above) at all times. The 4 directions have a central starting point anyway, and you need to use the same orientations when thinking egocentrically; it’s just the objective orientations are implicit here while they are explicit in the allocentric version. Therefore these are two versions of the exact same thing, albeit the allocentric kind is a bit more detached.

    Or maybe I just think allocentrically primarily and I’m crazy. I use maps a lot in my daily life so that might explain it too. I also spend a lot of time trying to navigate in the dark and move to unfamiliar places a lot and have to re-orient and navigate there.
    Yeah. It is quite understandable but once you notice a person who thinks that he/she has attached separate invisible threads to each object without interconnections of the objects the difference in each ends of spectrum gets bit bizarre.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbbds View Post
    I’m left-handed and I think I can’t feel my own body.

    I also don’t think these are mutually exclusive and it doesn’t make sense to classify them as completely separate. The difference is more philosophical than spatial, objectively speaking.

    Say you’re looking at a map allocentrically from your bird’s eye view. You are still mentally visualizing from a “first person” vantage point (above) at all times. The 4 directions have a central starting point anyway, and you need to use the same orientations when thinking egocentrically; it’s just the objective orientations are implicit here while they are explicit in the allocentric version. Therefore these are two versions of the exact same thing, albeit the allocentric kind is a bit more detached.

    Or maybe I just think allocentrically primarily and I’m crazy. I use maps a lot in my daily life so that might explain it too. I also spend a lot of time trying to navigate in the dark and move to unfamiliar places a lot and have to re-orient and navigate there.
    Yeah, I agree with what you say here...I find it difficult to distinguish between the two.

    Even though, I am primarly right-handed but I can write decently with both hands, and my mother was ambidextrous.

    EDIT: Thinking about it a bit more - in closed spaces I think I am more egocentric, in open spaces I use more allocentric methods.
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    Strange...I am 100% allocentric. It does not matter what I am doing. Hell, even when driving I have like an overhead map of my position to gauge distance and maneuverability. I am cross dominant, but I can say Right-handed. Not sure if I have Right/Left problems.

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