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Thread: Duality: How to overcome T-F differences?

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    Default Duality: How to overcome T-F differences?

    I self-typed myself as IEI in socionics, and I have an SLE friend whom I get along with really well. We have this soulmate-like connection with each other and we can often understand each other easily without any words needed.

    but there are times when we would get into T-F clashes. For example, as a logical type, my SLE friend tend to value his intellect highly, but as an ethical type, I tend to value my feelings highly, and being the T type he is, he often likes helping me solve problems and giving me advice about things, but being the F type I am, there are times when some of his advice goes against my feelings about things so I start rejecting those ideas, and he starts taking it personally because he feels that I dont value his intelligence.

    So what are some ways to overcome this T-F gaps between us? I feel like everything between us is perfect so far, its only this T-F differences that is driving us apart at the moment.

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    "helping me solve problems and giving me advice about things"

    That would specifically be Te.

    If you are just going to follow your feelings anyway then there is no reason to seek out his advice. It may help him to understand if you can articulate why something "feels wrong" to you (not sure exactly what you mean by that).

    Likewise, part of giving advice means recognizing that the other person isn't required to follow it. If they were, it wouldn't be advice, it would be telling them what to do.

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    Duality as I understand it doesn't mean no conflicts, just that both sides gain from it and move on very quickly from them.

    Either way, how it's said can be as important as what it said. We talking straight rejection of his suggestion or something a little more diplomatic with a reason given?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    "helping me solve problems and giving me advice about things"

    That would specifically be Te.

    If you are just going to follow your feelings anyway then there is no reason to seek out his advice. It may help him to understand if you can articulate why something "feels wrong" to you (not sure exactly what you mean by that).

    Likewise, part of giving advice means recognizing that the other person isn't required to follow it. If they were, it wouldn't be advice, it would be telling them what to do.
    He doesn't value Te, he doesn't trigger my Te PoLR. Also, our connection is really natural and comfortable, like we can be our true selves around each other at all times, which pretty much fits into the concept of duality. He is also Fi PoLR to the max, like there was once when I told him that my job isn't paying enough and I'm struggling financially, and he suggested me to lie to my parents to schmooze money out of them. Of course I ended up rejecting this advice of his. I can't see an Fi-valuing type giving me such an advice, seriously.

    And I have never seek out his advice, but he will usually just gave me advice without me asking for it.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    Duality as I understand it doesn't mean no conflicts, just that both sides gain from it and move on very quickly from them.

    Either way, how it's said can be as important as what it said. We talking straight rejection of his suggestion or something a little more diplomatic with a reason given?
    Yes, my SLE friend and I tend to move on quickly from conflicts. In fact, I wouldn't call those conflicts, but more like "disagreements". We will disagree with each other, and then try to resolve those disagreements together.

    And I don't straight-out reject his ideas, but I'll be diplomatic and give a bunch of reasons about why I disagree with some of his ideas. For example, his latest advice, he wanted me to work in the sex industry, so I rejected this advice of his, and I gave a bunch of reasons why I didn't want to have this as my career path, and then he started taking it personally. He feels that I'm brushing away his advice. It's like, he wants me to be completely submissive to him and to just follow everything he says, and if I don't follow everything he says, he starts taking it personally.
    Last edited by Hermit Soul; 07-30-2018 at 07:13 AM.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    This is not necessarily a technical T-F difference though. Could be other reasons. I understand the problem though.

    An honest feeling reaction can help. You have to trust the compatibility and also show bad moods and disappointment (if he is too logical for example)

    Ive had good results with ILEs by doing that.

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    Technically it should be "useful" for him to learn from your reactions, because other people will also show similar reactions to his advice.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    This is not probably best place to suggest to sell a kidney.

    Are those advises serious?
    Measuring you right now

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    To explain to an Fi polr why something is wrong is probably the worst thing you can do. Instead you just have to react spontaneously and reject the whole discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    This is not probably best place to suggest to sell a kidney.

    Are those advises serious?
    Yeah those advices are serious. He is a sensing type so he doesn't think the same way as us intuitives. To him, selling a kidney in this place is considered a normal thing to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    To explain to an Fi polr why something is wrong is probably the worst thing you can do. Instead you just have to react spontaneously and reject the whole discussion.
    I've decided to go "victim" mode on him. I'll present to him a list of sex workers that have been raped/killed in the past few years, and then tell him that I would be in the same situation as those sex workers, that I might end up getting raped/killed too. And if he cares about me, he wouldn't want to see anything bad happening to me.

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    He's just dumb if he is proposing to sell kidney and to be sex worker. He will eventually corrupt you or cause any other trouble with his way of thinking. I dont think this "duality" will be any good to you. Maybe you are just wasting your life with him, maybe you should find different friends, who would help you with your career, get you new skills or new opportunities. They dont need to be duals, the comfort of the chit-chat is not the most important in life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit Soul View Post
    He doesn't value Te, he doesn't trigger my Te PoLR. Also, our connection is really natural and comfortable, like we can be our true selves around each other at all times, which pretty much fits into the concept of duality. He is also Fi PoLR to the max, like there was once when I told him that my job isn't paying enough and I'm struggling financially, and he suggested me to lie to my parents to schmooze money out of them. Of course I ended up rejecting this advice of his. I can't see an Fi-valuing type giving me such an advice, seriously.

    And I have never seek out his advice, but he will usually just gave me advice without me asking for it.




    Yes, my SLE friend and I tend to move on quickly from conflicts. In fact, I wouldn't call those conflicts, but more like "disagreements". We will disagree with each other, and then try to resolve those disagreements together.

    And I don't straight-out reject his ideas, but I'll be diplomatic and give a bunch of reasons about why I disagree with some of his ideas. For example, his latest advice, he wanted me to work in the sex industry, so I rejected this advice of his, and I gave a bunch of reasons why I didn't want to have this as my career path, and then he started taking it personally. He feels that I'm brushing away his advice. It's like, he wants me to be completely submissive to him and to just follow everything he says, and if I don't follow everything he says, he starts taking it personally.
    This person isn't your friend. Please, for the sake of humanity, find better people to hang out with. If selling a kidney is "normal to him", why doesn't he fucking do it? Telling someone to sell a kidney isn't related to sensing vs intuition, if it was, where are all the sensing people lining up to sell their kidneys? No offense but you are naive if you think this person is in any way well-intended.

    Frankly this is disgusting, but you sound really young and naive, I think everyone hung out with someone like this at some point in their younger years because they didn't know who to hang out with.
    Last edited by Uncle Ave; 07-30-2018 at 03:21 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit Soul View Post
    Yeah those advices are serious. He is a sensing type so he doesn't think the same way as us intuitives. To him, selling a kidney in this place is considered a normal thing to do.
    Nothing to do with being a sensing type - i think you need to set some boundaries with him tbh, even if you are good friends, even lovers, find a way that hell avoid this topic forever, please...for your safety.
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    I agree with most of the people here who said that the idea of having you go into sex work or selling body parts for profit is a bad idea. I find it problematic that you are even considering something like this.

    Finding a dual with whom you can be your natural self is wonderful, but let me say, this wonderful feeling is a function of information exchange between duals, and does not have anything to do with whether or not someone is giving you good advice. Or if they are a good, moral person.

    In this case, the advice he is giving you is bad enough for me to recommend that you should seriously consider distancing yourself from this guy. It is hard to imagine that a guy who recommends that his "GF" go into sex work is going to have your best interests at heart. Has he also recommended that you turn over your earnings to him?

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    In case of same valued T/F, - to accept the need of higher activity and being ruled by the opposite function.
    T types need more take into account emotions and to be leeded by them. F types to become more reasonable.

    In case of other values - you need to rise own valued variant of your weak function. This will make easier to accept other one's variant after time.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Just think smarter and trust him more when he tells you something.

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    If this is the "sex work" suggesting guy then trusting him is probably the last thing to do. Let him take it personally. That guy's a bad influence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    If this is the "sex work" suggesting guy then trusting him is probably the last thing to do. Let him take it personally. That guy's a bad influence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I agree with most of the people here who said that the idea of having you go into sex work or selling body parts for profit is a bad idea. I find it problematic that you are even considering something like this.

    Finding a dual with whom you can be your natural self is wonderful, but let me say, this wonderful feeling is a function of information exchange between duals, and does not have anything to do with whether or not someone is giving you good advice. Or if they are a good, moral person.

    In this case, the advice he is giving you is bad enough for me to recommend that you should seriously consider distancing yourself from this guy. It is hard to imagine that a guy who recommends that his "GF" go into sex work is going to have your best interests at heart. Has he also recommended that you turn over your earnings to him?
    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Nothing to do with being a sensing type - i think you need to set some boundaries with him tbh, even if you are good friends, even lovers, find a way that hell avoid this topic forever, please...for your safety.
    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    This person isn't your friend. Please, for the sake of humanity, find better people to hang out with. If selling a kidney is "normal to him", why doesn't he fucking do it? Telling someone to sell a kidney isn't related to sensing vs intuition, if it was, where are all the sensing people lining up to sell their kidneys? No offense but you are naive if you think this person is in any way well-intended.

    Frankly this is disgusting, but you sound really young and naive, I think everyone hung out with someone like this at some point in their younger years because they didn't know who to hang out with.
    Quote Originally Posted by falsehope View Post
    He's just dumb if he is proposing to sell kidney and to be sex worker. He will eventually corrupt you or cause any other trouble with his way of thinking. I dont think this "duality" will be any good to you. Maybe you are just wasting your life with him, maybe you should find different friends, who would help you with your career, get you new skills or new opportunities. They dont need to be duals, the comfort of the chit-chat is not the most important in life.
    Lol, it was all a misunderstanding. It turns out that he didn't want me to go into sex work afterall, but it was just a sexual fantasy of his to watch his girlfriend/wife making love with other men, especially if the other men is of a powerful status, like a boss. He told me that he actually cared about my feelings much more than I realized and he wouldn't want to place me in such a dangerous situation by asking me to go into sex work. Oh, I'm such a silly F type, I actually read too deeply into what he said and misunderstood everything he said.

    Also, we aren't just friends, but we both have romantic feelings for each other. I've been infatuated with him for a year, I initially thought that my romantic feelings was one-sided on my part, but it turns out that he felt the same way about me too, as he recently brought up to me the idea of us dating/getting married. xD

    I really love dual connection. Our communication just flows really easily, and even if we had any misunderstandings with each other, it tends to get cleared up pretty quickly. SLEs are awesome. ^.^

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    Just learn from each other. Don't be fucking selfish And understand his point.

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    I dont think a guy that wants to marry you would ever have the fantasy of you sleeping with other men. @Hermit Soul

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    naive statement of the millenia

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAWTEASE View Post
    I don’t think a guy that wants to marry you would ever have the fantasy of you sleeping with other men.
    jealousy + victimish s&m = mb
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Is that guy a pimp? Seems like he has money problems and tries to steal it from you, should you acquire it. Stealing money from your parents, being a whore or selling a kidney have one common denominator: they all make big money. I'd stay away from that guy before its too late.

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    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAWTEASE View Post
    I dont think a guy that wants to marry you would ever have the fantasy of you sleeping with other men. @Hermit Soul
    Its called cuckolding. Go to a porn site and have a look.

    The dynamic requires having a wife or at least a very committed gf, so it adds up fine for someone with this fantasy to want to get married.
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    I am aware of cuckolding.
    You are referring to a fetish. I am referring to a young guy that wants to fuck around.

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    why didnt you just say that then, you made it about marriage when your entire point seems to be "this person is not serious." (or however you want to phrase "I don't approve of this person for you") its not about marriage because people can be sincerely in love and want to be committed to marriage and still sleep around because they view their commitment as deeper than physical. putting it the way you did either makes you out to be stupid or defines marriage in a way not everyone shares, and in any case distracts from your real point, which is "I dont think this person values you", of course, putting it this way would make it merely a matter of opinion and I think your point was to try and attach some appearance of objectivity to the claim. of course the subjectivity just got offloaded into "marriage" but its no less an illegitimate move. maybe you figured no one would call you out on it because everyone agrees with your understanding, but your understanding is shallow, and I think that was people's point in responding the way they did

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAWTEASE View Post
    I am aware of cuckolding.
    You are referring to a fetish. I am referring to a young guy that wants to fuck around.
    The bright line between a fetish and fucking around is dim.
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    Also, we aren't just friends, but we both have romantic feelings for each other. I've been infatuated with him for a year, I initially thought that my romantic feelings was one-sided on my part, but it turns out that he felt the same way about me too, as he recently brought up to me the idea of us dating/getting married. xD

    ^
    What the hell do I know but this all combined with him wanting her to fuck others doesn’t sound mature. The guy given his young age is totally just experimenting and def not gonna settle and marry her like he is stating. Bullshit. I will kiss your feet if they seriously end up getting married.
    @Hermit Soul Why are you putting dating and getting married together ?
    Dating someone is way lessss investment than getting married to someone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAWTEASE View Post
    Also, we aren't just friends, but we both have romantic feelings for each other. I've been infatuated with him for a year, I initially thought that my romantic feelings was one-sided on my part, but it turns out that he felt the same way about me too, as he recently brought up to me the idea of us dating/getting married. xD

    ^
    What the hell do I know but this all combined with him wanting her to fuck others doesn’t sound mature. The guy given his young age is totally just experimenting and def not gonna settle and marry her like he is stating. Bullshit. I will kiss your feet if they seriously end up getting married.
    @Hermit Soul Why are you putting dating and getting married together ?
    Dating someone is way lessss investment than getting married to someone.
    Quote Originally Posted by NAWTEASE View Post
    I don’t think a guy that wants to marry you would ever have the fantasy of you sleeping with other men. @Hermit Soul
    If you're implying that he isn't serious about me, then you're wrong about that.
    In fact, he has mentioned before that he isn't too interested in sex, and his actions seems to be adding up, as he is taking things really slowly with me and always making sure that I feel comfortable etc.

    He is also always telling me everything about himself, his hopes, his dreams, his fears etc. Whenever he is feeling down or having a bad day, he will always tell me about it. This is how close we are with each other, we tell each other everything.

    We have a strong emotional connection with each other .

    Also, I've dated a player before a few years ago, so I know how a player acts like. He is definitely the opposite of everything my player ex was.
    My player ex was always rushing things with me, unlike my current SLE who take things really slowly with me.

    And he does have a fetish for cuckolding, he told me before that he gets aroused at the idea of his wife having sex with another guy.

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    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............................................
    @Hermit Soul, I’m not an expert, but it seems to me that wanting your wife to have sex with another man implies that he might not be in the healthiest place right now.
    You might want to try to find out what humiliation means to him, and why he is interested in it.

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    Depending on how “fetish” gets defined, various studies in recent years are finding fetish prevalences from as little as 4 percent to as high as 75 percent of people.

    My opinion is it’s not unusual to have one, and the question is whether it will cause distress or harm to anyone, or strain a relationship because both people aren’t on board with it.

    So is this a real fetish of his, if so his long has he had it, how important to him is it, can he be in a relationship long-term with someone who doesn’t want to indulge it? And are you interested in ever trying this out, and if so what plan can be devised to ensure safety and discretion? What would happen if you didn’t like it?

    I don’t need any answers obvs, this is about the kind of convo that should happen at some point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit Soul View Post
    He doesn't value Te, he doesn't trigger my Te PoLR. Also, our connection is really natural and comfortable, like we can be our true selves around each other at all times, which pretty much fits into the concept of duality. He is also Fi PoLR to the max, like there was once when I told him that my job isn't paying enough and I'm struggling financially, and he suggested me to lie to my parents to schmooze money out of them. Of course I ended up rejecting this advice of his. I can't see an Fi-valuing type giving me such an advice, seriously.

    And I have never seek out his advice, but he will usually just gave me advice without me asking for it.




    Yes, my SLE friend and I tend to move on quickly from conflicts. In fact, I wouldn't call those conflicts, but more like "disagreements". We will disagree with each other, and then try to resolve those disagreements together.

    And I don't straight-out reject his ideas, but I'll be diplomatic and give a bunch of reasons about why I disagree with some of his ideas. For example, his latest advice, he wanted me to work in the sex industry, so I rejected this advice of his, and I gave a bunch of reasons why I didn't want to have this as my career path, and then he started taking it personally. He feels that I'm brushing away his advice. It's like, he wants me to be completely submissive to him and to just follow everything he says, and if I don't follow everything he says, he starts taking it personally.
    Seems more an ethical disagreement, where he can't get your reasons because those are ethical or Fi (IEI has good Fi too). Plus, working in sex industry is super bad idea which probably would bring more problems than benefits. He's clearly Fi PoLR and even if you are duals PoLRs are PoLRs. Another point for Fi is because he's getting 'offended', if it were mere logic he wouldnt be so, but he does so it seems more like his bad Fi is in charge (fetish seems to point also at Fi PoLR). I don't think this has anything to do with logic, its about ethics of relations.
    Last edited by Tommy; 09-21-2018 at 12:20 AM.

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    NAWTEASE's Avatar
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    Does he have connections to the sex industry?
    What if he is SEDUCING your mind slowly in order for you then to join the sex industry? So he can then earn money on you, bring you in a situation where you can’t get out?
    BTW: He doesn’t need to rush if he has sidechicks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAWTEASE View Post
    Does he have connections to the sex industry?
    What if he is SEDUCING your mind slowly in order for you then to join the sex industry? So he can then earn money on you, bring you in a situation where you can’t get out?
    BTW: He doesn’t need to rush if he has sidechicks.
    Grr I accidentally liked this post. As far as I know, he doesn’t have any connections to the sex industry. And why would he need to earn money off me? He is already quite wealthy himself and he has so much money that he has been considering donating his money to help needy people.

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    SLE say stuff like that all the time, its not even a thing to take notice about. It was probably more an invitation to gain some Fe from you and maybe even some Ni insight thrown in if the mood allowed it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermit Soul View Post
    I self-typed myself as IEI in socionics, and I have an SLE friend whom I get along with really well. We have this soulmate-like connection with each other and we can often understand each other easily without any words needed.

    but there are times when we would get into T-F clashes. For example, as a logical type, my SLE friend tend to value his intellect highly, but as an ethical type, I tend to value my feelings highly, and being the T type he is, he often likes helping me solve problems and giving me advice about things, but being the F type I am, there are times when some of his advice goes against my feelings about things so I start rejecting those ideas, and he starts taking it personally because he feels that I dont value his intelligence.

    So what are some ways to overcome this T-F gaps between us? I feel like everything between us is perfect so far, its only this T-F differences that is driving us apart at the moment.
    Well hey. If he tries to advise you in such a way that his ego is at stake, maybe it's he who doesn't value your intelligence?

    In any case, it does help to recognize spheres of competency and respect spheres of competency. For example, I knew someone who majored in psychology, and I initially resisted what she had to say, as it pertained to her field. I dislike committing fallacies that appeal to authority. But after gaining more respect for her work, I decided to give her more generous interpretations, ie. having more of an open mind. Maybe if you established your differences and gave reasons to respect each difference (like showing how an 'ethical' mindset has improved your life), then you'd gain mutual respect.
    "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see." - Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    Well hey. If he tries to advise you in such a way that his ego is at stake, maybe it's he who doesn't value your intelligence?

    In any case, it does help to recognize spheres of competency and respect spheres of competency. For example, I knew someone who majored in psychology, and I initially resisted what she had to say, as it pertained to her field. I dislike committing fallacies that appeal to authority. But after gaining more respect for her work, I decided to give her more generous interpretations, ie. having more of an open mind. Maybe if you established your differences and gave reasons to respect each difference (like showing how an 'ethical' mindset has improved your life), then you'd gain mutual respect.
    I should really read entire threads before responding to the OP without context...
    "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see." - Schopenhauer

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    1 don't be so egotistical
    2 fight it out, but in a productive way that doesn't hurt the other person
    Check out my socionics work [link]

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    Only on 16t can an abstract, psychological premise about lack of mutual respect so quickly escalate into cuckolding.
    "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see." - Schopenhauer

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    Hilarious!
    "The society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools." ―Thucydides



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    Clutch thread. Thoroughly enjoyed.

    Also, cuckolding is about getting validation of your worth via someone else thinking your girlfriend is fuckable.
    Re-read that a couple times. That's a broken person.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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