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    that looks right.. systems socionics is not totally onboard with DCNH but I know they cross talk with gulenko and have somewhat similar theoretical understandings. I think they would agree big picture that "dominance" as a social manifestation in any given type flows from their strongest functions. the thing is with a D LSI for example, theyre going to influence their environment in a Fe Te Se way, its just through their own strong functions Ti Si. Thus Stalin or whatever, you can see the Fe Te Se effects, but those are ultimately effects that are created as a consequence of his very strong Ti Si oriented mental processes. a good example is compare putin to Trump, you see trump actually trying to directly implement Fe Te Se way more than Putin, and yet Putin is issuing just as many Fe Te Se effects, even outstripping Trump, who is ultimately almost a cog in Putin's process. yet Trump tries to present himself as the dominator Putin actually is. in other words, you get into the room with them as you see Putin actually dominating Trump, but Trump acting more overtly Fe Te Se. this is the difference between DCNH and base type. Trump has base type more in line with Fe Te Se but Putin is actually D in that interaction. now in other interactions Trump may actually dominate, but the point is here is theres a difference between base type and DCNH, what gives Trump his "try hard" character is often his direct attempt to create a D interaction, because of the closeness of D with SEE base type. You could say the Trump/Putin interaction is a good example of two D types, one supervising the other. and each creating D "effects" in term of Fe Te Se in their own unique way based on base type. Putin in a cold calculating sense, Trump in a bombastic maneuvering, some might say idiotic, sense. yet each can dominate. clearly there is not only one base functional profile for domination
    Last edited by Bertrand; 07-31-2018 at 11:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Well you seem far more "ideology-oriented" than any Te lead ever would be, as they focus more on the purely pragmatic side of things, they don't have much of a need for any overarching and consistent enough reasoning as a basis for their attitudes or views, they are far more interested in just doing what works in practice, focused on the working mechanics of objects to use them rather than a detailed deeper understanding of them.
    Basically the really shitty Si is the only thing that hits home about LIE descriptions I've seen so far. Having a hard time seeing Fe be unvalued, or Ne being a strong function.

    Lol, well, another reason for uniting could be for pure survival reasons. Or in a less dark scenario, just simply for ensuring better progress for humanity overall. Of course it does not mean there can't be competition and conflict still, but it would at least not be on the level of actual wars.
    lol Maybe, countries cooperate pretty well any time some new potential pandemic finds its way out of China but how would that be maintained once the crisis passes. I just have a hard time seeing Uzbeks, Chileans, Congolese, and Americans all finding that degree of common cause short of some sort of cataclysm or extra-species/-planetary. It took Ottomans at Vienna just to get Germans, Poles, and Spanish on the same side lmao.

    But I'm also not all that averse to the idea of wars to begin with, though. Not necessary a fan of it (though I tend to side with Ernst Junger*) but the potential and option has to be there for a (Schmitt**) political distinction of any meaning to matter. When it happens, minus an Other, genuine unity seems have a pretty short shelf-life past a certain scale. America is politically contained but internally that "unity" is more like ranchers keeping livestock from escaping the pen, depressingly. Sociologists tend to argue that the US actually contains 7-9 different nations, and they aren't much fans of each other--at all--until some Saudis flew planes into our towers.

    *
    junger.png

    **
    schmitt.png

    I got that sense, that it's just introspective curiosity. My curiosity about it is also just on that level.
    I'm pretty okay with however all the digging and questioning goes lol as long as there's hopefully some answer. As for me when I stopped trying to pidgeonhole what I should believe or support into another person's framework and said "fuck it" it came as a huge relief and made a lot of topics a lot more fun. Whether that's Ti, Se, or some other damn thing I'm a-okay with it lol

    That kind of sounds familiar to me.
    lmao Nerd rants all day every day.

    Yeah and I guess there is one way to reason for why they'd be put into these function positions but this is getting so speculative at that point and doesn't all add up outside the Ego functions so I'm leaving the topic alone.
    Yeah I get that. I personally lean towards the ideas that can give me an example. An instantiation of X, Y, or Z class of something, which Gulenko seems to be able to do. Dunno about the other way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    that looks right.. systems socionics is not totally onboard with DCNH but I know they cross talk with gulenko and have somewhat similar theoretical understandings. I think they would agree big picture that "dominance" as a social manifestation in any given type flows from their strongest functions. the thing is with a D LSI for example, theyre going to influence their environment in a Fe Te Se way, its just through their own strong functions Ti Si. Thus Stalin or whatever, you can see the Fe Te Se effects, but those are ultimately effects that are created as a consequence of his very strong Ti Si oriented mental processes. a good example is compare putin to Trump, you see trump actually trying to directly implement Fe Te Se way more than Putin, and yet Putin is issuing just as many Fe Te Se effects, even outstripping Trump, who is ultimately almost a cog in Putin's process. yet Trump tries to present himself as the dominator Putin actually is. in other words, you get into the room with them as you see Putin actually dominating Trump, but Trump acting more overtly Fe Te Se. this is the difference between DCNH and base type. Trump has base type more in line with Fe Te Se but Putin is actually D in that interaction. now in other interactions Trump may actually dominate, but the point is here is theres a difference between base type and DCNH, what gives Trump his "try hard" character is often his direct attempt to create a D interaction, because of the closeness of D with SEE base type. You could say the Trump/Putin interaction is a good example of two D types, one supervising the other. and each creating D "effects" in term of Fe Te Se in their own unique way based on base type. Putin in a cold calculating sense, Trump in a bombastic maneuvering, some might say idiotic, sense. yet each can dominate. clearly there is not only one base functional profile for domination

    Awesome. Huge thanks for the example. That's a big help in framing all this in my head.
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    that whole page is gold, I occassionally go back and reread SSS and I feel like I learn new stuff every time

    multidimensional function, as opposed to a normative one, can confidently function in different situations, including difficult ones. It faces a failure as normal thing - there is no reason to get upset, it is rather an occasion to correct a mistake, change the approach (according to the situation), to learn from the result . Unpleasant? Yes. But nothing dramatic. The function 7 is a kind of "hard-nosed" self-righteous one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    that whole page is gold, I occassionally go back and reread SSS and I feel like I learn new stuff every time
    That's a way of thinking about it that never occurred. I'll have to sit back and try to think of a few occasions like that and see what I can glean from this...
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    yeah that's a super information dense couple of sentences

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    Basically the really shitty Si is the only thing that hits home about LIE descriptions I've seen so far. Having a hard time seeing Fe be unvalued, or Ne being a strong function.
    Shitty Si like?


    lol Maybe, countries cooperate pretty well any time some new potential pandemic finds its way out of China but how would that be maintained once the crisis passes. I just have a hard time seeing Uzbeks, Chileans, Congolese, and Americans all finding that degree of common cause short of some sort of cataclysm or extra-species/-planetary. It took Ottomans at Vienna just to get Germans, Poles, and Spanish on the same side lmao.
    Oh it could be more long-term concerns of humanity surviving due to limited resources unless we cooperate better about sorting out this issue. But yeah I don't expect that to happen fast.


    But I'm also not all that averse to the idea of wars to begin with, though. Not necessary a fan of it (though I tend to side with Ernst Junger*) but the potential and option has to be there for a (Schmitt**) political distinction of any meaning to matter. When it happens, minus an Other, genuine unity seems have a pretty short shelf-life past a certain scale. America is politically contained but internally that "unity" is more like ranchers keeping livestock from escaping the pen, depressingly. Sociologists tend to argue that the US actually contains 7-9 different nations, and they aren't much fans of each other--at all--until some Saudis flew planes into our towers.
    I just see war as starting to stand in the way of progress at one point. I do think war is a necessity at this point (in the present) tho'.

    Again, I don't expect they would disappear all that fast even if we wanted to go towards this, it would be a longer term process.

    Mind elaborating on the bolded, i.e. why did you use this analogy?


    "Courage means to let oneself be nailed to the cross for one's cause. Courage means, in the last moment of life, to still show allegiance to the thought for which one stood and fell."

    I'm going to be cynical, nice way to brainwash people into going into war eh? Not saying it's not good to stand up for causes and fight for them, quite the opposite actually, but... why do we agree the cause is good? And why or when must one's life be given to it? Other than, e.g. in the case of war, another country attacking? (Or ok, the other example I'm willing to accept is if you/your country really needs to get access to resources this way, i.e. no other choice at all.)

    "But he is, nevertheless, the other, the stranger; and it is sufficient for his nature that he is, in a specially intense way, existentially something different and alien, so that in the extreme case conflicts with him are possible. These can neither be decided by a previously determined general norm nor by the judgment of a disinterested and therefore neutral third party."

    And that's such an overly emotional way of looking at things lol. Was this writer EIE or something, lol.

    Overly emotional: it's not even considered what kind of stuff is different and why and whether that is actually a problem. Sometimes yeah it can be. But no, I would never make a general concept out of this.

    Lol btw idk your opinions on this, this stuff just caught my eye, you don't have to enter into any discussion with me over it. I don't mind if you want to, though, ofc.


    I'm pretty okay with however all the digging and questioning goes lol as long as there's hopefully some answer. As for me when I stopped trying to pidgeonhole what I should believe or support into another person's framework and said "fuck it" it came as a huge relief and made a lot of topics a lot more fun. Whether that's Ti, Se, or some other damn thing I'm a-okay with it lol
    Oh, for me what seems to help is when I get the "other" logical framework, but I guess I do it the same way as you described it - stop temporarily to place my own opinions onto what the other person is saying (as a filter), though my own understanding still has to be used to be able to pick up theirs, so it has to be all-encompassing enough first - and yeah it actually can make things more fun sometimes. Except that I put my own opinions back pretty fast in the game and then if I just see the other pov as silly, then yeah not gonna stay engaged.

    But yeah, digging, questioning, all that is effortful so yeah there needs to be some goal for it


    lmao Nerd rants all day every day.



    Yeah I get that. I personally lean towards the ideas that can give me an example. An instantiation of X, Y, or Z class of something, which Gulenko seems to be able to do. Dunno about the other way.
    Ehm, yeah unless stuff is too abstract to illustrate with just a few examples and Gulenko can go off towards that far end too much in some cases

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Shitty Si like?
    I'm not organized, almost at all. All packing for travel for work is done around midnight the night before the trip. The "place" for most things tends to be where I left it. I take almost no notes either in study or in work tasks or document projects/tasks. It's a strain to remember to get a haircut every 3 weeks or to remember to do laundry. Generally shaving happens once I notice it feels like steel wool on my face. If I'm not meeting anyone I give a shit about (like a client or friend or family) I'm very content to wear the same shit several times in a row. My apartment is completely sparse with just a bed, dinner table, workout gear, bed, and a dresser being most of what wasn't already here. I can get a perfectly good sleep on the floor, and when I lived elsewhere for a year and a half I couldn't be bothered to buy a comforter so I just slept under sheets. The paperwork portion of my job is half of why I applied for a related but different position. Haven't been to a doctor in probably 10 years, either lmao

    Oh it could be more long-term concerns of humanity surviving due to limited resources unless we cooperate better about sorting out this issue. But yeah I don't expect that to happen fast.
    This is why we need to colonize other planets, so we can have more resources to keep fighting each other over resources

    I just see war as starting to stand in the way of progress at one point. I do think war is a necessity at this point (in the present) tho'.

    Again, I don't expect they would disappear all that fast even if we wanted to go towards this, it would be a longer term process.
    For sure, nothing about you so far gives me the impression of being some crazy pie-in-the-sky hippie lol. I can certainly see that wars can cause backwards progress or inhibit it (though that begs the definition of "progress"). Just as a general rule I view struggle as an animating element of people and peoples, and that too much comfort drives us crazy, and that war is an instance of extremely vital struggle.

    Mind elaborating on the bolded, i.e. why did you use this analogy?
    Just the mental image that came to mind. The federal government of the US in its current social circumstances is more or less hurriedly trying to just corral its various different internal groups with zero-sum conflicts of interest and prevent them from killing each other or bolting out of the fence. It's all they can do just to stop a stampede at the moment because socially in multiple difference instances America is on the hairy-edge of what Schmitt considers a revolutionary state (ie. subjects determine their own friend-enemy distinction irrespective of the sovereign/state).


    "Courage means to let oneself be nailed to the cross for one's cause. Courage means, in the last moment of life, to still show allegiance to the thought for which one stood and fell."

    I'm going to be cynical, nice way to brainwash people into going into war eh? Not saying it's not good to stand up for causes and fight for them, quite the opposite actually, but... why do we agree the cause is good? And why or when must one's life be given to it? Other than, e.g. in the case of war, another country attacking? (Or ok, the other example I'm willing to accept is if you/your country really needs to get access to resources this way, i.e. no other choice at all.)
    lol I'm prone to cynicism in many things so cynic away. To American ears "propaganda" carries a connotation of cynical media put out by people that don't believe it to manipulate the citizenry. If you had a different meaning plz correct me.

    If I didn't know much about Junger I'd probably this was propaganda, as well, but he was a veteran of WWI wounded while un-reluctantly following orders in the twilight of the war to try and take land from the Entente Powers. In the post-war years he was one of the few not writing depressive morality plays of reflection about the war, and was a big proponent of "Heroic Realism" in the post-war years.

    "why do we agree the cause is good?"

    I'm not necessarily sure agreement is implied, just the celebration of the commitment to follow something to its utmost ends. There are a lot of things I disagree with but that kind of commitment is still impressive. (eg. 3 Brazillians given a burial by Germans that resisted until they ran out of ammunition and then were shot in a bayonet charge LINK)

    "And why or when must one's life be given to it?"

    When the circumstances require, I would suppose. As for why, I'm inclined to something along the lines of John 15:13 LINK

    "But he is, nevertheless, the other, the stranger; and it is sufficient for his nature that he is, in a specially intense way, existentially something different and alien, so that in the extreme case conflicts with him are possible. These can neither be decided by a previously determined general norm nor by the judgment of a disinterested and therefore neutral third party."

    And that's such an overly emotional way of looking at things lol. Was this writer EIE or something, lol.
    Rofl he could be. I see no results for him in MBTI or socionics when I search google (just this thread comes up lol). He's almost certainly Beta quadra. I know he was a follower of an EIE, though.

    Overly emotional: it's not even considered what kind of stuff is different and why and whether that is actually a problem. Sometimes yeah it can be. But no, I would never make a general concept out of this.
    Lmao well just for clarity, it's from his book "The Concept of the Political" where the main thesis is to reduce the definition and function of a political community to its most fundamental and inescapable principle and necessities, the concept of the "political." This sounds Ti going for a core truth build upon to me, but I'll be curious what your take is. His tone may be EIE-seeking if he isn't one himself lol.

    Just a couple excerpts for the purpose of illustration more than to try and make any point
    schmitt3.png schmitt2.png

    Lol btw idk your opinions on this, this stuff just caught my eye, you don't have to enter into any discussion with me over it. I don't mind if you want to, though, ofc.
    lmao like I said some of this shit I could talk about all day long, so if I see a discussion offered I'm going to enter into one. Most often it's a question of if things get too uncomfortable or intolerable to my interlocutor.

    Oh, for me what seems to help is when I get the "other" logical framework, but I guess I do it the same way as you described it - stop temporarily to place my own opinions onto what the other person is saying (as a filter), though my own understanding still has to be used to be able to pick up theirs, so it has to be all-encompassing enough first - and yeah it actually can make things more fun sometimes. Except that I put my own opinions back pretty fast in the game and then if I just see the other pov as silly, then yeah not gonna stay engaged.

    But yeah, digging, questioning, all that is effortful so yeah there needs to be some goal for it
    Oh yeah if there's an acceptable framework that already exists pre-formed, by all means, gimme lol. Socionics is great and works as far as I can tell

    With political cliques, though, in my case it was more a wandering trying to find a good fit, and any attempt to try and conform to or adopt placed certain kinds of constrictions or burdens that just made it hard to "breath," so to speak. A lot of pretend or forced positions for the same of consistency with something I thought sounded nice and true, but ultimately weren't and weren't something that really resonated in me. Then I finally got fed up and stopped playing that game.

    Ehm, yeah unless stuff is too abstract to illustrate with just a few examples and Gulenko can go off towards that far end too much in some cases
    lmao I feel that. When things start to get into the really abstract and speculative my eyes start to glaze over and I start just skimming everything instead of really reading it.
    Last edited by Oppai Anschluss; 08-01-2018 at 01:06 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    I'm not organized, almost at all. All packing for travel for work is done around midnight the night before the trip. The "place" for most things tends to be where I left it. I take almost no notes either in study or in work tasks or document projects/tasks. It's a strain to remember to get a haircut every 3 weeks or to remember to do laundry. Generally shaving happens once I notice it feels like steel wool on my face. If I'm not meeting anyone I give a shit about (like a client or friend or family) I'm very content to wear the same shit several times in a row. My apartment is completely sparse with just a bed, dinner table, workout gear, bed, and a dresser being most of what wasn't already here. I can get a perfectly good sleep on the floor, and when I lived elsewhere for a year and a half I couldn't be bothered to buy a comforter so I just slept under sheets. The paperwork portion of my job is half of why I applied for a related but different position. Haven't been to a doctor in probably 10 years, either lmao
    Lol sp-last chaos... Looks like you do have strong Si if you don't actually feel stressed out by any of this bc that means you are able to deal with your bodily sensations without a problem.

    I relate to some of this btw but I'm not like this THIS much. Maybe I'm sx/sp over sx/so after all...

    It's also ofc that you are a guy, so you'll be less tidy than women about some of this stuff lol.

    I'm personally not housewife material either but still, a tiny bit more focused on these matters than you.

    But I beat you at chaos at one point, I pack for travel the absolute last minute.

    And I can sleep on the floor just fine too yeah, or in broad daylight etc. I attribute that to good Si in my case because I just know how to adjust my body with the circumstances + the circumstances too ofc if needed.


    This is why we need to colonize other planets, so we can have more resources to keep fighting each other over resources
    Well that's an option too but I prefer to stick to more realistic scenarios lol


    For sure, nothing about you so far gives me the impression of being some crazy pie-in-the-sky hippie lol. I can certainly see that wars can cause backwards progress or inhibit it (though that begs the definition of "progress"). Just as a general rule I view struggle as an animating element of people and peoples, and that too much comfort drives us crazy, and that war is an instance of extremely vital struggle.
    The definition of progress is another long and deep topic.

    Yeah, fighting, it's animating and whatnot, and I think we deeply agree on that part again lol, but I prefer it to have a truly good point if it's really about giving a lot for something, such as my life, and it should be the best solution as well. If it's just about finding a way to fight, I can see other ways to do that than doing it in war.



    Just the mental image that came to mind. The federal government of the US in its current social circumstances is more or less hurriedly trying to just corral its various different internal groups with zero-sum conflicts of interest and prevent them from killing each other or bolting out of the fence. It's all they can do just to stop a stampede at the moment because socially in multiple difference instances America is on the hairy-edge of what Schmitt considers a revolutionary state (ie. subjects determine their own friend-enemy distinction irrespective of the sovereign/state).
    America in revolution, that was an interesting image for sure. Is it really that close to being that?


    lol I'm prone to cynicism in many things so cynic away.



    To American ears "propaganda" carries a connotation of cynical media put out by people that don't believe it to manipulate the citizenry. If you had a different meaning plz correct me.
    Oh no, we have that connotation for it here too, possibly even stronger.


    If I didn't know much about Junger I'd probably this was propaganda, as well, but he was a veteran of WWI wounded while un-reluctantly following orders in the twilight of the war to try and take land from the Entente Powers. In the post-war years he was one of the few not writing depressive morality plays of reflection about the war, and was a big proponent of "Heroic Realism" in the post-war years.
    Interesting


    "why do we agree the cause is good?"

    I'm not necessarily sure agreement is implied, just the celebration of the commitment to follow something to its utmost ends. There are a lot of things I disagree with but that kind of commitment is still impressive. (eg. 3 Brazillians given a burial by Germans that resisted until they ran out of ammunition and then were shot in a bayonet charge LINK)

    "And why or when must one's life be given to it?"

    When the circumstances require, I would suppose. As for why, I'm inclined to something along the lines of John 15:13 LINK
    Yeah I was asking rhetorical questions Your commitment orientation is very Ni HA btw in the way you put it, idk why you didn't relate to the descriptions

    Anyway yes I find commitment impressive too like that. I just do not want it to go over the other extreme with it becoming a brainwashing issue when the goal is not actually all that good or sensible or even worse than that.

    So for example for the example of the Brazilians, yeah, you can give a good statement by that kind of commitment, but I can't say I would necessarily prioritize making that statement over other goals if I have them in life, it depends if the other goals I find even better. (And yes they can still be goals for other people too, so it's not simply about being 100% self-centred, not at all.)

    The last link of yours there, yeah, I was gonna call it a touchy-feely link lol, so anyway sure that's a valid thing too. But do it in a way that it really ends up at the best possible results (i.e. best of all implementable ones) overall.


    Rofl he could be. I see no results for him in MBTI or socionics when I search google (just this thread comes up lol). He's almost certainly Beta quadra. I know he was a follower of an EIE, though.

    Lmao well just for clarity, it's from his book "The Concept of the Political" where the main thesis is to reduce the definition and function of a political community to its most fundamental and inescapable principle and necessities, the concept of the "political." This sounds Ti going for a core truth build upon to me, but I'll be curious what your take is. His tone may be EIE-seeking if he isn't one himself lol.
    Lol I didn't really think about the type, just that bit seemed like it. I read the texts you posted here, I think all I can say is just that the writer is definitely a Ti/Fe type and yeah could be "EIE seeking tone" or "Fe seeking tone". If it really was about elaborating on fundamental principles, that's either Ti or Ni but it does sound more Ti than anything.



    lmao like I said some of this shit I could talk about all day long, so if I see a discussion offered I'm going to enter into one. Most often it's a question of if things get too uncomfortable or intolerable to my interlocutor.


    I don't think it'd ever get too "uncomfortable or intolerable" for me lol


    Oh yeah if there's an acceptable framework that already exists pre-formed, by all means, gimme lol. Socionics is great and works as far as I can tell
    It's actually weird with Socionics

    I only find it an acceptable framework for myself if I integrate it with some other contexts of systems but then yeah it seems to really offer things in terms of what its model is about that I have not seen anywhere else and that says a lot because I majored in cognitive psychology so I do have a background somewhat in other psychology theories.


    With political cliques, though, in my case it was more a wandering trying to find a good fit, and any attempt to try and conform to or adopt placed certain kinds of constrictions or burdens that just made it hard to "breath," so to speak. A lot of pretend or forced positions for the same of consistency with something I thought sounded nice and true, but ultimately weren't and weren't something that really resonated in me. Then I finally got fed up and stopped playing that game.
    Lol again that's so familiar to me, about the wandering part. Uhm, I was never strongly part of any "cliques", but otherwise yeah, nothing really made sense beyond a point. (I also didn't worry about constrictions or burdens but that's beside the point, just being precise here lol.)


    mao I feel that. When things start to get into the really abstract and speculative my eyes start to glaze over and I start just skimming everything instead of really reading it.
    Yeah, since we are in your type thread, I'll say that that pretty much excludes N types (as for the LIE suggestion you asked about).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Lol sp-last chaos... Looks like you do have strong Si if you don't actually feel stressed out by any of this bc that means you are able to deal with your bodily sensations without a problem.

    I relate to some of this btw but I'm not like this THIS much. Maybe I'm sx/sp over sx/so after all...
    lmao You may just be better at being an adult than I am. If that explains it, then awesome, because so many of the strong-Si type descriptions I saw sound all orderly, and then I look at the mess around me like "well shit..."

    It's also ofc that you are a guy, so you'll be less tidy than women about some of this stuff lol.

    I'm personally not housewife material either but still, a tiny bit more focused on these matters than you.
    lol any amount more focused on these things than me is an improvement. I feel like if an SEI wound up married to me she'd probably turn homicidal inside of a month.

    But I beat you at chaos at one point, I pack for travel the absolute last minute.
    lmao you're a braver woman than I. The only time I stress this kind of thing is when I start trying to remember if I'm forgetting anything I need at a client, or might be leaving in a hotel room, so I end up going over it all like 3-4 times and still end up forgetting something in the hotel 25% of the time.

    And I can sleep on the floor just fine too yeah, or in broad daylight etc. I attribute that to good Si in my case because I just know how to adjust my body with the circumstances + the circumstances too ofc if needed.
    So that's what strong unconscious Si without primary SP looks like lol. I had been associating it with really having your shit together and making all of your spaces homey and comfy as they can be.

    Well that's an option too but I prefer to stick to more realistic scenarios lol
    Psh, "realistic." Have fun with that while I'm gonna be killing the other team in Martian resource wars, sucker

    The definition of progress is another long and deep topic.

    Yeah, fighting, it's animating and whatnot, and I think we deeply agree on that part again lol, but I prefer it to have a truly good point if it's really about giving a lot for something, such as my life, and it should be the best solution as well. If it's just about finding a way to fight, I can see other ways to do that than doing it in war.
    I can see that, absolutely, and I don't really disagree lol. I might just have a smaller scope in what I require for "a truly good point." "For my people" has always been enough of a truly good point for me. I wouldn't endorse fighting/war for its own sake, but even the shittiest wars yield some of the most inspiring expressions or demonstrations of φιλία and passion.

    America in revolution, that was an interesting image for sure. Is it really that close to being that?
    In a Schmitt-ian sense, yes, unfortunately. When people start acting on it, I don't know, because it's been sitting at a low boil for about 8 years, now. 2024 will be an interesting year because that's Trump's term limit hits, and the Left has been getting extremely rabidly racialized and illiberal in their desires. The ability for dissent to subsist is no longer acceptable to them, and they're getting more violent about it.

    Yeah I was asking rhetorical questions Your commitment orientation is very Ni HA btw in the way you put it, idk why you didn't relate to the descriptions
    Oh cool lol that was an aspect that hadn't occurred to me. I definitely did relate to it, but I also related to the description of suggestive Ni from your link so I was on the fence. I'll chalk that up to being hard to make finer distinctions between things you're bad at. My concept of Ni was focused on explicit consistency and the "time" orientation that keeps coming up in other descriptions

    Anyway yes I find commitment impressive too like that. I just do not want it to go over the other extreme with it becoming a brainwashing issue when the goal is not actually all that good or sensible or even worse than that.

    So for example for the example of the Brazilians, yeah, you can give a good statement by that kind of commitment, but I can't say I would necessarily prioritize making that statement over other goals if I have them in life, it depends if the other goals I find even better. (And yes they can still be goals for other people too, so it's not simply about being 100% self-centred, not at all.)
    Yeah absolutely. A unity of a good cause and total commitment would be the ideal without a doubt.

    The last link of yours there, yeah, I was gonna call it a touchy-feely link lol, so anyway sure that's a valid thing too. But do it in a way that it really ends up at the best possible results (i.e. best of all implementable ones) overall.
    lol yup I agree again with only a slight alteration, I'm okay with "good enough" results =P. I think our biggest difference is really just on where that line is drawn and maybe a bit of an aesthetic difference. You're much more sensible and pragmatic about this question where I'm very much a romantic about it .


    Lol I didn't really think about the type, just that bit seemed like it. I read the texts you posted here, I think all I can say is just that the writer is definitely a Ti/Fe type and yeah could be "EIE seeking tone" or "Fe seeking tone". If it really was about elaborating on fundamental principles, that's either Ti or Ni but it does sound more Ti than anything.
    Yeah I only know his writings as a philosopher (nothing personal or candid) so I doubt I could say more than that he's a Beta and maybe ST. I just know that most of his conclusions I came to on my own, independently, in less thorough and clear language. Eventually I read some of his stuff and my reaction was "oh my God. I'm home!" lol

    I don't think it'd ever get too "uncomfortable or intolerable" for me lol
    Challenge accepted lol


    It's actually weird with Socionics

    I only find it an acceptable framework for myself if I integrate it with some other contexts of systems but then yeah it seems to really offer things in terms of what its model is about that I have not seen anywhere else and that says a lot because I majored in cognitive psychology so I do have a background somewhat in other psychology theories.
    Nice, you probably have some pretty good criticisms as well beyond some of the peripheral speculative stuff. The intertype relation stuff strikes me as the most interesting (go figure, if sx/so), since it's more applicable and experiential than anything in MBTI which is basically just "Okay, you're an INFP. I guess you like to do magic mushrooms, walk around barefoot, and skip shaving your armpits" or "you're an INTJ, so you're a wannabe James Bond villain with short-man syndrome."


    Lol again that's so familiar to me, about the wandering part. Uhm, I was never strongly part of any "cliques", but otherwise yeah, nothing really made sense beyond a point. (I also didn't worry about constrictions or burdens but that's beside the point, just being precise here lol.)
    Hey be as precise as you like lol it's cool that someone else can relate to a good about of this stuff for once


    Yeah, since we are in your type thread, I'll say that that pretty much excludes N types (as for the LIE suggestion you asked about).
    Which is hysterical because for basically any MBTI forum "smart" default just means "NT" lmao and of course "deep" means "NF"
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    (Sorry I did not have time for a couple of days)


    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    lmao You may just be better at being an adult than I am. If that explains it, then awesome, because so many of the strong-Si type descriptions I saw sound all orderly, and then I look at the mess around me like "well shit..."

    lol any amount more focused on these things than me is an improvement. I feel like if an SEI wound up married to me she'd probably turn homicidal inside of a month.
    Lol, right.


    lmao you're a braver woman than I. The only time I stress this kind of thing is when I start trying to remember if I'm forgetting anything I need at a client, or might be leaving in a hotel room, so I end up going over it all like 3-4 times and still end up forgetting something in the hotel 25% of the time.
    Ahh it doesn't need that much courage =) I have a few little tricks as methods to ensure I don't forget stuff


    So that's what strong unconscious Si without primary SP looks like lol. I had been associating it with really having your shit together and making all of your spaces homey and comfy as they can be.
    Yep that's what it looks like =P


    Psh, "realistic." Have fun with that while I'm gonna be killing the other team in Martian resource wars, sucker
    Yeah I'm having fun in actual tangible reality


    I can see that, absolutely, and I don't really disagree lol. I might just have a smaller scope in what I require for "a truly good point." "For my people" has always been enough of a truly good point for me. I wouldn't endorse fighting/war for its own sake, but even the shittiest wars yield some of the most inspiring expressions or demonstrations of φιλία and passion.
    I see, I seem a bit less strongly motivated by this umm, Fe stuff? I mean I can be, but if I see no good / constructive end result then I lose interest. That for me is true in general too.


    In a Schmitt-ian sense, yes, unfortunately. When people start acting on it, I don't know, because it's been sitting at a low boil for about 8 years, now. 2024 will be an interesting year because that's Trump's term limit hits, and the Left has been getting extremely rabidly racialized and illiberal in their desires. The ability for dissent to subsist is no longer acceptable to them, and they're getting more violent about it.
    Gotcha...


    Oh cool lol that was an aspect that hadn't occurred to me. I definitely did relate to it, but I also related to the description of suggestive Ni from your link so I was on the fence. I'll chalk that up to being hard to make finer distinctions between things you're bad at. My concept of Ni was focused on explicit consistency and the "time" orientation that keeps coming up in other descriptions
    Yeah, it's harder to differentiate between similarly strong or similarly weak functions. For me too I related to both descs both for HA/DS functions (Ni/Fe) originally and it took a while (more self-observation etc) before I could see which one really fit me more consistently and especially, more concretely.


    Yeah absolutely. A unity of a good cause and total commitment would be the ideal without a doubt.




    lol yup I agree again with only a slight alteration, I'm okay with "good enough" results =P. I think our biggest difference is really just on where that line is drawn and maybe a bit of an aesthetic difference. You're much more sensible and pragmatic about this question where I'm very much a romantic about it .
    Yeah, well "implementable" means it works in practice so in that sense it's also just "good enough"... but yes you are more, um romantic about it. Maybe the age difference


    Yeah I only know his writings as a philosopher (nothing personal or candid) so I doubt I could say more than that he's a Beta and maybe ST. I just know that most of his conclusions I came to on my own, independently, in less thorough and clear language. Eventually I read some of his stuff and my reaction was "oh my God. I'm home!" lol
    Hm yeha interesting, sorry no idea on typing still though.


    Challenge accepted lol




    Nice, you probably have some pretty good criticisms as well beyond some of the peripheral speculative stuff. The intertype relation stuff strikes me as the most interesting (go figure, if sx/so), since it's more applicable and experiential than anything in MBTI which is basically just "Okay, you're an INFP. I guess you like to do magic mushrooms, walk around barefoot, and skip shaving your armpits" or "you're an INTJ, so you're a wannabe James Bond villain with short-man syndrome."
    Yeah, criticisms I do have of the speculative stuff.

    As for intertype relations, I think most of it is speculative nuance too, lol, the most basic relations seem robust enough tho' (duality, conflictor/superego, maybe the other intraquadra stuff too).


    Hey be as precise as you like lol it's cool that someone else can relate to a good about of this stuff for once



    Which is hysterical because for basically any MBTI forum "smart" default just means "NT" lmao and of course "deep" means "NF"
    For the stereotypical "understanding" of it yeah

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    Oof, sorry about that slow response. Been traveling for work for the last month and spending a lot of time doing some deep soul-searching.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    (Sorry I did not have time for a couple of days)
    No sweat lol. My work is getting into its busy season so I'll be pretty slow for the next few months, as well, most likely.

    Yeah I'm having fun in actual tangible reality
    Give it time and tangible reality will catch up with me lmao

    I see, I seem a bit less strongly motivated by this umm, Fe stuff? I mean I can be, but if I see no good / constructive end result then I lose interest. That for me is true in general too.
    Yeah, I'm not so sure it's typology related, and more an effect of where I am personally. Or maybe those are one and the same. Who knows lol

    Yeah, it's harder to differentiate between similarly strong or similarly weak functions. For me too I related to both descs both for HA/DS functions (Ni/Fe) originally and it took a while (more self-observation etc) before I could see which one really fit me more consistently and especially, more concretely.
    That makes a lot of sense. All things in due time.

    Yeah, well "implementable" means it works in practice so in that sense it's also just "good enough"... but yes you are more, um romantic about it. Maybe the age difference
    lol doubtless that's true, also maybe partly the gender difference.

    Yeah, criticisms I do have of the speculative stuff.

    As for intertype relations, I think most of it is speculative nuance too, lol, the most basic relations seem robust enough tho' (duality, conflictor/superego, maybe the other intraquadra stuff too).
    Yeah the conflictor & superego definitely seem extremely on the money as far as I can tell. Explains a great deal about some past relationships that turned extremely sour very quickly lol

    For the stereotypical "understanding" of it yeah
    lol well I'm content to be a big ol' "shallow" and "dumb" ST lmao. I have about a billion times more fun than the self-satisfied "deep" Deltas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss View Post
    Oof, sorry about that slow response. Been traveling for work for the last month and spending a lot of time doing some deep soul-searching.
    Slowest ever response here. I'm still busy too, will be busy for a long time actually, but got a little time this evening.



    Yeah, I'm not so sure it's typology related, and more an effect of where I am personally. Or maybe those are one and the same. Who knows lol
    Maybe the E6?



    Yeah the conflictor & superego definitely seem extremely on the money as far as I can tell. Explains a great deal about some past relationships that turned extremely sour very quickly lol
    Ahem, EII or IEE?


    I just want to add, I still have the same opinions as before about how I see you, but if you are sure on your new typing, that's all cool by me, too. So I'm not going to bring that up, unless you want to analyse anything about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Slowest ever response here. I'm still busy too, will be busy for a long time actually, but got a little time this evening.
    lmao she lives. That's no worries from me, as I can sympathize after a couple months of 70 hour weeks and travel.

    Maybe the E6?
    Or Fe Hidden Agenda? rofl Hell if I know with some of these things

    Ahem, EII or IEE?
    I seem to clash the hardest and fastest with EIIs, at least the women. A lot of "you can't say that" and "that's mean." I had a friend for a while that typed INFJ in MBTI that I'm relatively certain is an EII and crass jokes, swearing, and teasing never once sat right for her and we got into a LOT of very heated fights about it until we just parted ways because it was too much fucking stress for me to handle.

    I just want to add, I still have the same opinions as before about how I see you, but if you are sure on your new typing, that's all cool by me, too. So I'm not going to bring that up, unless you want to analyse anything about it.
    Hey, I'm down for any observations you got lol. I have very little concept of how I come across to others and you have been at this longer than me. By and large I operate by trying to make a catalogue of impressions I get from identified types or clear examples of functions/IEs to which I compare and contrast other things. So if "this feels like that" or "this doesn't vibe like that in this way" is just how I try to color things or feel them out through negative space.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss View Post
    lmao she lives. That's no worries from me, as I can sympathize after a couple months of 70 hour weeks and travel.]
    Nice, any particular goal with that amount of workaholism?


    Or Fe Hidden Agenda? rofl Hell if I know with some of these things



    I seem to clash the hardest and fastest with EIIs, at least the women. A lot of "you can't say that" and "that's mean." I had a friend for a while that typed INFJ in MBTI that I'm relatively certain is an EII and crass jokes, swearing, and teasing never once sat right for her and we got into a LOT of very heated fights about it until we just parted ways because it was too much fucking stress for me to handle.
    Hmm, I've yet to see EIIs (the ones I've known) get into very heated fights lol, do you mean she actually got loud and had the actual stamina to tolerate the fighting? Without breaking down eventually crying or sulking lol

    I do have a problem with some EIIs myself, but it's entirely different - their guilt trippy or otherwise really negative and heavy Fi just gets traumatic lol.

    (I mean heavy to me. They still sound really light otherwise and not at all heavy in a physical way, it's more emotional to me. I have way less trouble with the Fi of ESIs in comparison)

    And it doesn't even have to be criticism towards me is the fun thing.


    Hey, I'm down for any observations you got lol. I have very little concept of how I come across to others and you have been at this longer than me. By and large I operate by trying to make a catalogue of impressions I get from identified types or clear examples of functions/IEs to which I compare and contrast other things. So if "this feels like that" or "this doesn't vibe like that in this way" is just how I try to color things or feel them out through negative space.
    OK, sure, if I see anything that looks like it relates to type, I'll let you know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Nice, any particular goal with that amount of workaholism?
    lol apart from survival I was trying to meet my assigned charge hour goal for the year that my consultancy assigns to each of us. Our slow season is in the beginning of the year so almost immediately we're all at a deficit and have to play catch up being double or triple-booked for the last 4 months.

    It helped pass the time though. Been going through a job application that's taken going on a full year now with a hell of a lot of waiting.


    Oi lmao speak up if you have an opinion


    Hmm, I've yet to see EIIs (the ones I've known) get into very heated fights lol, do you mean she actually got loud and had the actual stamina to tolerate the fighting?
    loud was only at her most hysterical after things had escalated (or disintegrated?) into theatrics. Prior to that it was always a lot of silent treatment, judgementally excusing herself from a chat, passive aggressive quips, text messages that would include a semi-subtle barb that she both did and didn't want a response to. Vexing shit until I got tired or she got out of control.

    I do have a problem with some EIIs myself, but it's entirely different - their guilt trippy or otherwise really negative and heavy Fi just gets traumatic lol.
    Oooooooh yeah. Her default mode seemed like ethical pressuring and it was tiring to say the least.


    OK, sure, if I see anything that looks like it relates to type, I'll let you know.
    sweet lol I'll keep an eye out
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss View Post
    lol apart from survival I was trying to meet my assigned charge hour goal for the year that my consultancy assigns to each of us. Our slow season is in the beginning of the year so almost immediately we're all at a deficit and have to play catch up being double or triple-booked for the last 4 months.

    It helped pass the time though. Been going through a job application that's taken going on a full year now with a hell of a lot of waiting.



    Oi lmao speak up if you have an opinion
    Lol not anything definite enough beyond "oh E6 + Fe together kind of clicks". HA or not, it's a good question how the E6 affects things in that area: i.e. would it mean more openness emotionally.


    loud was only at her most hysterical after things had escalated (or disintegrated?) into theatrics. Prior to that it was always a lot of silent treatment, judgementally excusing herself from a chat, passive aggressive quips, text messages that would include a semi-subtle barb that she both did and didn't want a response to. Vexing shit until I got tired or she got out of control.
    Ooh, ok I've known that kind of EII too - I once asked her directly to do something (wasn't even for me, was for the sake of someone else), and the way she responded lol, sounds like this one. I ended up never talking to her again.


    Oooooooh yeah. Her default mode seemed like ethical pressuring and it was tiring to say the least.
    How about when they just really open up to you about their deep needlessly guilty or other crappy negative feelz to you?

    (I hope no EII is reading this thread now.)


    sweet lol I'll keep an eye out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Lol not anything definite enough beyond "oh E6 + Fe together kind of clicks". HA or not, it's a good question how the E6 affects things in that area: i.e. would it mean more openness emotionally.
    He's Enneagram 6 + Sx/So, Counterphobic. Thus, he's very selective. He can absorb Fe energy in short bursts and feel energized for a period of time, but in terms of openness in an intimacy or "willing to share emotions" sense, that's reserved for very specific friends.

    I'll allow him to speak for himself of course, but over the past half year we've learned a great deal more about Socionics - Functional Dimensionality, Bukalov's Signage, Reinen's Dichotomies, more stuff on IR, Functional Semantics, and just generally improved on IE placement Model A understanding. The gist is that Ni suggestive, Fi PoLR, Fe HA, Si ignoring, and so forth all became clear (particularly Fi PoLR and Ni Suggestive).

    I was also personally acquainted with the EII in question. She was passive aggressive, ethically pressuring, cold-shouldering (silent treatment), and typically left in a huff and puff, always finger waving and policing him. As Oppai said, she typed INFJ in MBTI, yet when the three of us were together, her and I were starkly different, only superficially similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post



    Lol not anything definite enough beyond "oh E6 + Fe together kind of clicks". HA or not, it's a good question how the E6 affects things in that area: i.e. would it mean more openness emotionally.
    lol awesome. I still need to read more enneagram. Still basically just going on what 3 people on here have said for the most part.

    Ooh, ok I've known that kind of EII too - I once asked her directly to do something (wasn't even for me, was for the sake of someone else), and the way she responded lol, sounds like this one. I ended up never talking to her again.
    Yeah...I haven't spoken to her in going on 4 years. I wish her well and she's a kind person, but I know that if I reconnected with her shit would start flaring up almost immediately again. oil and vinegar, except with a lot of hurtful remarks thrown in.

    How about when they just really open up to you about their deep needlessly guilty or other crappy negative feelz to you?

    (I hope no EII is reading this thread now.)
    rofl thinking about it made my ass clench and made me squirm like someone dropped something gross down the back of my shirt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous Lynx View Post
    He's Enneagram 6 + Sx/So, Counterphobic. Thus, he's very selective. He can absorb Fe energy in short bursts and feel energized for a period of time, but in terms of openness in an intimacy or "willing to share emotions" sense, that's reserved for very specific friends.

    I'll allow him to speak for himself of course, but over the past half year we've learned a great deal more about Socionics - Functional Dimensionality, Bukalov's Signage, Reinen's Dichotomies, more stuff on IR, Functional Semantics, and just generally improved on IE placement Model A understanding. The gist is that Ni suggestive, Fi PoLR, Fe HA, Si ignoring, and so forth all became clear (particularly Fi PoLR and Ni Suggestive).

    I was also personally acquainted with the EII in question. She was passive aggressive, ethically pressuring, cold-shouldering (silent treatment), and typically left in a huff and puff, always finger waving and policing him. As Oppai said, she typed INFJ in MBTI, yet when the three of us were together, her and I were starkly different, only superficially similar.
    Ah, yeah like I said I know that kind of EII, the one I'm thinking of actually knew MBTI and typed as INFJ, no joke.

    As for the Fe part, I'm much the same way like you described that. I do see that as Fe dual seeking rather than Fe HA, really, but that's my view of things. To explain, the bits on the short bursts and on being low on openness to share that's what I see as having lower emotional energy than if Fe was the Mobilising function, so fitting Dual seeking more (for both aspects), and introversion (for the latter aspect). As far as the latter relates to Fe information specifically, I mean (rather than just Fi).

    Where I mentioned E6 I meant he still has a bit more openness compared to me and I thought that can be chalked up to E6. Maybe it's also the long-term close and intense friendship with you as an Fe ego as well

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    Default OA SOLTI-160 Test Results

    Interesting test but it seems to be at least somewhat confounded by subtypes. Result says SLE but comparing which functions are weaker than "standard" and stronger than "standard" as well as the dichotomies tells an interesting story.

    SLE scored under standard
    LSI score far outside standard
    Logical valued over Sensing
    Sensing less valued than standard
    Rational valued instead of irrational
    Decisive far above standard
    More serious than standard
    Obstinate instead of yielding (absolutely true)
    Questioning instead of declaring (surprising since I don't think of myself as questioning)
    Essentially neither positive nor negative

    Si negative score instead of positive
    Ni half the negative score of normal
    Ne equally negative scored with Ni
    Ti far above "normal"
    Te above "normal"
    Fi less negative than normal
    Fe marginally less negative than normal
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Beta ST 6w5 8w9 3w4 sx/so

    Every problem on earth can be solved by the liberal application of ordnance

    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life."


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    you extraversion score is really high for a LSI...
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    you extraversion score is really high for a LSI...
    Yeah I'm not sure what's going on there lmao I've been told since I got here I have stronger Fe than typical LSI's, but at the same time I'm pretty sure I have weaker Se than SLE's
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    Every problem on earth can be solved by the liberal application of ordnance

    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life."


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    I think you could be SLE-Ti Oppai. You have more Te and Ti and rationality than average SLE according your results. That would point out in Ti subtype. Hence the confusion between LSI or SLE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    I think you could be SLE-Ti Oppai. You have more Te and Ti and rationality than average SLE according your results. That would point out in Ti subtype. Hence the confusion between LSI or SLE.
    Interesting you say that cause another test has given me LSI-Ti twice with months apart. A self-type LSI-Se says Se seems more on/off rather than omnipresent for me as a contrast with the impression self-typed SLEs give. I generally leave the door 15-20% open on which at any given time since I seem to come down in the middle on many dichotomies just by self-assessment from descriptions.
    Last edited by Oppai Anschluss; 01-25-2019 at 06:07 PM.
    Beta ST 6w5 8w9 3w4 sx/so

    Every problem on earth can be solved by the liberal application of ordnance

    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life."


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    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss View Post
    Interesting you saw that cause another test has given me LSI-Ti twice with months apart. A self-type LSI-Se says Se seems more on/off rather than omnipresent for me as a contrast with the impression self-typed SLEs give. I generally leave the door 15-20% open on which at any given time since I seem to come down in the middle on many dichotomies just by self-assessment from descriptions.
    the test from sociotype.com?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cody View Post
    the test from sociotype.com?
    Yup that’s the one
    Beta ST 6w5 8w9 3w4 sx/so

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    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life."


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    My guess is SLE. You remind me of their discrete nature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
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    You & as said before @sbbds all seem like Delta STs to me maybe LSE-Si's.

    Remember I follow functional dynamics and original functional definitions more than profiles or Mr. G who would likely peg you as LSI.
    Last edited by vesstheastralsilky; 01-26-2019 at 08:19 PM.
    ~* astralsilky

    4w5 that morphed into a 3w2 sx/sp
    Cancer Sun, Cancer/Leo Moon, Libra Ascendant, Pluto conjunct Ascendant, Sun conjunct Moon, Saturn conjunct Mercury conjunct MC in 10th, Jupiter handle of bucket pattern squares Nodes, Uranus biquintile Jupiter, Neptune sextile Ascendant, Lilith trine Ascendant, Venus in Gemini/Cancer in 9th house conjunct MC, Venus trine Uranus, Uranus conjunct Spica, Ascendant conjunct SuperGalactic Center, Sun inconjunct Galactic Center.

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    Didn't want to make a new thread so here is the questionnaire from @thehotelambush


    The Extended Questionnaire v0.2


    What do you study or do for a living? How did you come to do that? What do you like or dislike about it?

    Penetration Testing/Red Teaming/Information Security Consulting. I came to do it through the Edward Snowden leaks making me aware that there's a line of work in legal hacking and thought it sounded cool as shit so I did it. I like getting to take over client networks, beat their defensive teams, and say "I win." I hate having to badger client contacts into moving and doing their jobs, writing reports, and having to spend hours poking at a website trying to find the 1 thing that works.

    What are your values, and why?

    Be loyal to your friends, family, and people. Apart from doing your duty to God nothing else matters in this life.

    What else do you do on a daily basis? What are your interests and hobbies? Why do you do them?

    This forum, following the news, talking about philosophy and theology with friends, watching humanities analysis videos on youtube

    Describe your relations with family and friends. What do you like and dislike about them?

    I like when it's laid back and fun with a lot of shit-talking and banter with an occasional serious talk about what's fucked up and needs fixing or what something means

    What do you look for in friends? In romantic relationships?

    A place to mostly relax and have fun, and a partner in achieving things that actually matter

    What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?

    Only two real conflicts recently, snapping at someone trying to crawl around in my head and dig into my personal history and the other being just an irreconcilable clash of values. The latter happens on a regular basis as I don't give people many options for the former.

    How would your friends describe you?

    A loyal and lovable asshole with a clear personal sense of right and wrong

    What do people generally see as your strengths? What do you like about yourself?

    That I'm determined, above average intelligence, and have a clear sense of what I want and what I think is right. I like all of the above.

    What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?

    Poor imagination/creativity. I get locked into tunnel-vision very frequently and hate having to step out of that. I'm also pretty bad at communication with people I'm not particularly invested in. Both of these are criticisms I receive and dislike about myself.

    In what areas of life can you manage well on your own? In what areas of your life would you like help?

    I manage my work and accomplishing my goals and identifying what matters to me pretty well. I would like help in the social sphere on all fronts

    What things do you dislike doing? What things do you enjoy more than others?

    Paperwork, meetings, badgering client contacts to do their jobs so I'm able to do mine, cleaning/housekeeping, being asked to explain and justify disparate preferences or assumptions. Winning, laughing with a group of friends or friendly acquaintances, finding meaning and purpose in something

    What goals, aspirations, or plans do you have for the future? How did you come to have them?

    Do my current job on a scale with greater impact than a credit union's NCUA audit, find a wife and start a family, and settle in a community I can identify with and call my own. Came to have them because the latter 2 I've always wanted and the former from realizing that small-to-medium clients get boring

    If you had enough money to live comfortably for the rest of your life without working, what would you do with your time?

    Bushcraft and funding the people that can fix problems in society

    What traits do you find endearing that others might dislike? What traits are considered positive/neutral by others but tend to annoy you?

    Inappropriate jokes, self-effacing jokes/clumsiness/scatterbrained-nesss, wanting other people to relax and have a good time. Things that annoy me are getting hung up about what's appropriate in a social situation, caring a lot about procedure, getting hung up on or hectoring over something offending someone

    What kinds of things do you do to manage and/or beautify your environment (your room, your house, etc.)? What do you think of daily chores?

    I don't. I'll do them if I have to, and will avoid them if I can

    How do you behave around strangers?

    I ignore them mostly. If they're a client contact or employee I behave stiffly and properly. If they're strangers at a dinner table I'll gauge them to see if they're fun or a tightass

    How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?

    If it's someone I don't really care about or if it's a subject I really care about I can try to win at all costs including personal attacks and torpedo'ing a friendly relationship with the other person. If it's someone I value or wanted to be on good terms with I tend to fall-back and consider that person an enemy and avoid them if possible.

    What is one common misconception that people have about things? Explain why it is wrong.

    That nationalism and exclusion is necessarily hateful or antagonistic and that discernment is criticism

    What did you do last Friday?

    Went to work, got through meetings. Went home and listened to music, watched some youtube videos, browsed twitter, and checked the forum. Exciting stuff.

    What is your biggest accomplishment?

    The biggest accomplishment I have that I am allowed to talk about, after getting this career, was talking over a bank's network with a phone call.

    What is something you regret?

    Telling my USMC recruiters to fuck off when I realized they fraudulently filled out my paperwork, instead of getting it fixed and going through with it all.

    Who do you admire, and why?

    People that can affect change and inspire people. A collection of central Europeans in the early 20th century.

    What's been on your mind? Has anything been worrying or concerning you? What problems have you encountered lately?

    Been concerned about how a very long drawn out job application process will play out.

    What are your religious or spiritual beliefs and why do you hold them?

    Traditionalist (pre-Vatican 2) Catholic, bordering on Sedevacantist. Because it's true, and because the aesthetics are top tier

    What are your political beliefs, and why? To what extent do you care about politics?

    Right-wing Nationalist, because the most precious possession you have is your own people. I place great importance on my politics.

    Would you ever be interested in starting a business? Why or why not? What role would you play in it? What kind of business would it be?

    Passing interest in independent subcontracting work but I hate sales and I hate all the paperwork

    What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?

    I prefer mostly solo work in a group setting with people you can joke around with without having to worry about HR wrapping you on the knuckles. I look for a chance to do cool shit and have fun with people

    What is or was your favorite school subject and why?

    History, because I like learning about the events and understanding the narrative of past goings on

    How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?

    If you signed up for something then don't try to shirk the costs, implications, and responsibilities that come with it. You made your bed, now lay in it.

    Where did you go on your most recent vacation? What did you do there? How did you like it and why?

    The last vacation I had where I traveled, instead of just taking time off, I went to England. Traveled around to the usual tourist shit and a lot of small towns. Yeah I liked it, I like seeing quaint small towns from the places my family came from.

    What were you like as a kid? How have you changed since you were a child?

    A socially anxious shut-in that was terrified of people. Not socially anxious anymore and people are a mixed back but can be pretty great when you click.

    What was your high school experience like?

    A lot of just waiting to get out, trolling teachers, and arguing with people to upset them

    Talk about a significant event from your life.

    I took my USMC recruiters' words about integrity to heart and demanded that they correct my paperwork that they falsified even if it would hamper my options, and when they tried to talk me about of it for 3 hours I walked out on them and went back to college.

    Do you like kids? Why or why not?

    I like the idea of kids raising them in a whole and engaged community. Kids in actuality today are getting screwed up pretty bad early on and are developing a lot of hard to like traits

    If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?

    Instilling the awareness to make good decisions with regards to long-term consequences, and the fortitude to say no to teachers and peers that will try to steer them wrong.

    Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.

    Yes. The cause was a month of lazy troublesome clients and my reaction was to find a new job opportunity and immediately apply

    How do you see other people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.

    I don't see people as a whole. I see them as multiple wholes. People aren't allowed to identify as any sort of group and advocate for their interest outside of materialistic brand consumption.

    What do you do if you're not getting what you want? What approach do you use?

    I attack the problem harder.

    Are you comfortable taking leadership roles? In what areas? Why or why not?

    Pretty apathetic about leadership. I like solitary work in a group setting.

    How often do you get angry? What kinds of things make you angry?

    Somewhat often. Indecision, wasting my time, over-emphasis on materialistic concerns

    What is the best thing that happened to you during the past week?

    I took over my client's network.

    What is the worst thing that happened to you during the past week?

    It took 15 hours to take over my client's network

    What is the purpose of life? What do you find personally meaningful in life?

    To suffer well for the benefit of your people unto your end, and as a process of developing personal virtues.

    What is the most interesting place you have been, and why?

    St Petersburg. Was the only capital I've been to that didn't feel like every other major city.

    How do you dress or manage your appearance?

    I get a monthly haircut, fast for spiritual and health reasons, wear a dress shirt and slacks for work, wear a casual collared button-down and chinos or jeans everywhere else

    Do you like surprises?

    Pretty apathetic to surprises.
    Beta ST 6w5 8w9 3w4 sx/so

    Every problem on earth can be solved by the liberal application of ordnance

    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life."


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    Questionnaire answers do suggest Beta.

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    I think SLE >>> LSI.

    You have a ridiculous humour vibe that is Uncle Buck-esque. That’s very Ne role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    My guess is SLE. You remind me of their discrete nature.
    I'm interested, how do you see SLE more (or less?) discrete than LSI? Or different in what way in terms of discreteness?


    Quote Originally Posted by vesstheastralsilky View Post
    You & as said before @sbbds all seem like Delta STs to me maybe LSE-Si's.

    Remember I follow functional dynamics and original functional definitions more than profiles or Mr. G who would likely peg you as LSI.
    Loool Delta ST for these people

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I'm interested, how do you see SLE more (or less?) discrete than LSI? Or different in what way in terms of discreteness?
    I don't really hear LSI's calling a or b without considering boundaries (as in while "thinking on their feet"). [I tend to put those discrete things on rest. For example discrete math is clearly my least favorite area.]
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    I don't really hear LSI's calling a or b without considering boundaries (as in while "thinking on their feet"). [I tend to put those discrete things on rest. For example discrete math is clearly my least favorite area.]
    Since you mentioned it Discrete Mathematics was actually the only math class I ever really enjoyed a lot lol but I have a sneaking suspicion that just a decisive vs judicious thing
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    "Ultimately, man should not ask what the meaning of his life is, but rather he must recognize that it is he who is asked. In a word, each man is questioned by life; and he can only answer to life by answering for his own life."


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    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss View Post
    Interesting test but it seems to be at least somewhat confounded by subtypes. Result says SLE but comparing which functions are weaker than "standard" and stronger than "standard" as well as the dichotomies tells an interesting story.
    I score on that test by dichotomies as (i)STj, where the "i" is barely existing over the midline (barely over zero).

    The reinin traits are useless lol.


    Si negative score instead of positive
    Ni half the negative score of normal
    Ne equally negative scored with Ni
    Ti far above "normal"
    Te above "normal"
    Fi less negative than normal
    Fe marginally less negative than normal
    Lol you sound pretty similar to me, again (with a difference for Fe and Si, Fe is lower for me and Si is higher but not terribly high for an LSI).

    Your new questionnaire answers are consistent with these test results too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss View Post
    Interesting you say that cause another test has given me LSI-Ti twice with months apart. A self-type LSI-Se says Se seems more on/off rather than omnipresent for me as a contrast with the impression self-typed SLEs give. I generally leave the door 15-20% open on which at any given time since I seem to come down in the middle on many dichotomies just by self-assessment from descriptions.
    Yah these tests only go that far.

    I'll give a little analysis of your new questionnaire, far from exhaustive tho'.



    But first I'll also answer another post of yours

    Yeah I'm not sure what's going on there lmao I've been told since I got here I have stronger Fe than typical LSI's, but at the same time I'm pretty sure I have weaker Se than SLE's
    Now what I think would be useful is if you fleshed out in everyday words as to what it means "have stronger Fe than typical LSI'".

    Weaker Se, I think I know what you mean there, about your dislike of excessive materialism. Or anything else you had in mind here?


    Random q from earlier stuff, you said "As for me when I stopped trying to pidgeonhole what I should believe or support into another person's framework and said "fuck it" it came as a huge relief and made a lot of topics a lot more fun."

    How did that happen btw, that you stopped?



    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss View Post
    I hate having to badger client contacts into moving and doing their jobs, writing reports, and having to spend hours poking at a website trying to find the 1 thing that works.
    Haha, because you need the zen state to do the patient poking for hours? (Or?)


    What conflicts have you encountered recently with other people? Why did they happen? Which kinds seem to happen on a regular basis?

    Only two real conflicts recently, snapping at someone trying to crawl around in my head and dig into my personal history and the other being just an irreconcilable clash of values. The latter happens on a regular basis as I don't give people many options for the former.
    I can see why you relate to Obstinate as far as the description for that trait goes lol


    How would your friends describe you?

    A loyal and lovable asshole with a clear personal sense of right and wrong
    I do think this theme of you paying attention to what's right and wrong is strong and consistent.

    It's one of the main things that keeps me focused on LSI>SLE for you. It being far more characteristic of a Ti lead type (or Ij in general).


    What are your weaknesses? What criticism do you often face from others? What do you dislike about yourself?

    Poor imagination/creativity. I get locked into tunnel-vision very frequently and hate having to step out of that. I'm also pretty bad at communication with people I'm not particularly invested in. Both of these are criticisms I receive and dislike about myself.
    And then these things also for LSI>SLE, lower Ne and Fe.

    (And yeah, I'm sure I already said that I 1000% relate to these traits.)

    1D Fe rather than 2D Fe (weaker), since you are more selective.


    What things do you dislike doing? What things do you enjoy more than others?

    Paperwork, meetings, badgering client contacts to do their jobs so I'm able to do mine, cleaning/housekeeping, being asked to explain and justify disparate preferences or assumptions. Winning, laughing with a group of friends or friendly acquaintances, finding meaning and purpose in something
    Trouble with disparate preferences/assumptions sounds Ne PoLR/Rational/Ti


    How do you react to conflict? What do you do if somebody insults or attacks you?

    If it's someone I don't really care about or if it's a subject I really care about I can try to win at all costs including personal attacks and torpedo'ing a friendly relationship with the other person. If it's someone I value or wanted to be on good terms with I tend to fall-back and consider that person an enemy and avoid them if possible.
    I see this as far more Fe DS than Fe HA. Fe HA would be less black and white and less passive with managing the manifestations of the relationship. Fe HA basically can try and use emotional expressions and explicitly affirmative/etc Fe talks rather than just cut them off in a black and white way emotionally.

    The black and white attitude emotionally and the passivity in terms of emotional "manipulation" of the relationship applies even if there is effort made to repair the relationship (say if it was an important enough relationship etc).

    And of course Fe HA can also cut people off but you really just wrote about passive avoidance and black-white judging.


    What is one common misconception that people have about things? Explain why it is wrong.

    That nationalism and exclusion is necessarily hateful or antagonistic and that discernment is criticism
    Great point re: discernment


    Who do you admire, and why?

    People that can affect change and inspire people.
    Say more on this.



    What kind of work environment do you prefer? What do you look for in a job?

    I prefer mostly solo work in a group setting with people you can joke around with without having to worry about HR wrapping you on the knuckles. I look for a chance to do cool shit and have fun with people
    Rather introverted answer.


    What is or was your favorite school subject and why?

    History, because I like learning about the events and understanding the narrative of past goings on
    Seems like a bit of an actively independent use of Ni. I have the same btw lol (tho' history for me wasn't my fav. This actually makes me feel like you have stronger Ni than I do lol. Not hard to achieve that accomplishment tho'... )


    How do you approach responsibility? What do you tend to expect of others?

    If you signed up for something then don't try to shirk the costs, implications, and responsibilities that come with it. You made your bed, now lay in it.
    Again hell yeah

    I don't want to strictly link this on its own to type because other things affect sense of responsibility too, but you do seem way more consistently focused on duties than any Exxp would be. It's an approach most natural for Ixxjs.


    What were you like as a kid? How have you changed since you were a child?

    A socially anxious shut-in that was terrified of people. Not socially anxious anymore and people are a mixed back but can be pretty great when you click.
    Quite strong indication of introversion. I.e. your default response to stress was with an introverted, not an extraverted orientation. Ofcourse big stress I'm sure can affect extraverted types to the degree of turning introverted-ish. But I get the sense that for you it's the default approach.


    Talk about a significant event from your life.

    I took my USMC recruiters' words about integrity to heart and demanded that they correct my paperwork that they falsified even if it would hamper my options, and when they tried to talk me about of it for 3 hours I walked out on them and went back to college.
    You went overly conscientious there even for Ixxj lol.


    If you were to raise a child, what would be your main concerns, what measures would you take, and why?

    Instilling the awareness to make good decisions with regards to long-term consequences, and the fortitude to say no to teachers and peers that will try to steer them wrong.
    I see this as quite Ti/Ni>Se/Fe.


    Ever feel stuck in a rut? If yes, describe the causes and your reaction to it.

    Yes. The cause was a month of lazy troublesome clients and my reaction was to find a new job opportunity and immediately apply
    Okay just to not sound entirely monotone about your typing lol, this is Se for sure in this case (not that I'm saying this is SLE specific. Se creative is able to get impulsive and even brash too).


    How do you see other people as a whole? What do you consider a prevalent social problem? Name one.

    I don't see people as a whole. I see them as multiple wholes. People aren't allowed to identify as any sort of group and advocate for their interest outside of materialistic brand consumption.
    Out of curiosity, multiple wholes...?


    Are you comfortable taking leadership roles? In what areas? Why or why not?

    Pretty apathetic about leadership. I like solitary work in a group setting.
    More introversion


    How often do you get angry? What kinds of things make you angry?

    Somewhat often. Indecision, wasting my time, over-emphasis on materialistic concerns
    Bit more Se creative than Se lead if these are the two options.


    Do you like surprises?

    Pretty apathetic to surprises.
    Not very into Ep-like change (though ofcourse Ne is better at this than Se)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    I don't really hear LSI's calling a or b without considering boundaries (as in while "thinking on their feet"). [I tend to put those discrete things on rest. For example discrete math is clearly my least favorite area.]
    Er, a or b? I'm missing context, please say more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oppai Anschluss View Post
    Since you mentioned it Discrete Mathematics was actually the only math class I ever really enjoyed a lot lol but I have a sneaking suspicion that just a decisive vs judicious thing
    I don't think the Socionics model can be used well for such fine details of cognition heh

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Troll Nr 007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Er, a or b? I'm missing context, please say more.
    By not filtering things through binary logic if you will all the time. I'm not saying that they do not do it at all. I see it more flexible but then others might see it as following its own continual train of thought.

    Like this

    instead of n=1, 2, 3,...
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I donít care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

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    DRANG NACH BETA NF Oppai Anschluss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    I score on that test by dichotomies as (i)STj, where the "i" is barely existing over the midline (barely over zero).

    The reinin traits are useless lol.
    lol yeah that's what I'm starting to think, as well. I come down in the middle of so many of them when reading descriptions.


    Lol you sound pretty similar to me, again (with a difference for Fe and Si, Fe is lower for me and Si is higher but not terribly high for an LSI).

    Your new questionnaire answers are consistent with these test results too.
    That's pretty much the impression I had gotten so far lol so tat least there's that?


    Now what I think would be useful is if you fleshed out in everyday words as to what it means "have stronger Fe than typical LSI'".

    Weaker Se, I think I know what you mean there, about your dislike of excessive materialism. Or anything else you had in mind here?
    For Se: Less omnipresent and constant. Like you said, more on/off. Applied when I need it as opposed to a default mode of operation.

    For Fe: More expressive. More effort trying to get things to be laid back and have fun.

    Random q from earlier stuff, you said "As for me when I stopped trying to pidgeonhole what I should believe or support into another person's framework and said "fuck it" it came as a huge relief and made a lot of topics a lot more fun."

    How did that happen btw, that you stopped?
    Dunno how things are over there but politically in America things (while I was growing up) got sorted either into two different kinds of bundled ways of thinking. For a very long time in the ideological wilderness it was spent trying to double down and define and adhere to a more consistent "true" system from some central principles of one of those two ways of thinking. A lot of it was coming to conclusions that are dog shit and I didn't really like/agree with but bit my tongue going "Well, that's how this stupid principle plays out so I guess that's how it is." About 6 years spent going down different rabbit holes trying to force my positions into unrealistic and stupid frameworks based on abstract and unworkable principles that result in completely repellent conclusions (eg. the "non-aggression principle" leading to complete atomism and social apathy to abusive practices by people or groups, shrugging off the life expectancy falling among my people due to suicide and drug abuse because "that's not my problem," and thinking that things are necessarily better because I can buy more cheap plastic shit from china for less this year than last year).

    That stopped when I gave less of a shit about consistency and stuck more with just what I think is true or right, and had a minor realization that I was doing a lot of that ideological wandering because I wanted some sort of "us" or team to be on to struggle against the other team. A collective purpose and meaning to belong to and work for.

    Haha, because you need the zen state to do the patient poking for hours? (Or?)
    More or less, yeah. There are so many possibilities for what might work and meticulously going through each and every one makes me want to pull my hair out more each time it doesn't work. Then in the back of my mine my I know my LII or ILE co-worker would likely see the potential likely alternative almost immediately. That process of sorting through myriad potentialities is like pulling teeth.

    I do think this theme of you paying attention to what's right and wrong is strong and consistent.

    It's one of the main things that keeps me focused on LSI>SLE for you. It being far more characteristic of a Ti lead type (or Ij in general).
    lol I was getting that impression when answering the questions. I was wondering if someone was going to jump in and say ESI because of that.

    And then these things also for LSI>SLE, lower Ne and Fe.

    (And yeah, I'm sure I already said that I 1000% relate to these traits.)

    1D Fe rather than 2D Fe (weaker), since you are more selective.
    lol yeah the only time I have any creativity is within appropriate jokes. lucky me .

    Trouble with disparate preferences/assumptions sounds Ne PoLR/Rational/Ti
    Been told all my life I'm an opinionated dick lol coming to conclusions I'll argue over on a subject I've only just learned about.

    I see this as far more Fe DS than Fe HA. Fe HA would be less black and white and less passive with managing the manifestations of the relationship. Fe HA basically can try and use emotional expressions and explicitly affirmative/etc Fe talks rather than just cut them off in a black and white way emotionally.

    The black and white attitude emotionally and the passivity in terms of emotional "manipulation" of the relationship applies even if there is effort made to repair the relationship (say if it was an important enough relationship etc).

    And of course Fe HA can also cut people off but you really just wrote about passive avoidance and black-white judging.
    Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. Last time it got really bad in a case of getting nasty with someone was a person I was pretty friendly with attacking some things that mean a lot to me, in a way/perspective that is completely repulsive to me, so it turned into a couple hours of attacking each other leading to attacking him with personal private information just to shut him up. Still feel kind of bad about that. Other times it might be throwing out an idea and getting a really antagonistic response from someone I think was pretty alright, and the response is just to wash my hands, go "shit, I thought you were cool. Guess not" and cut them out.

    Great point re: discernment
    Thanks lol people that treat the very idea of exclusive definitions or valuations as innately immoral drive me up the walls.


    Say more on this.
    I love sound clips, videos, personal interactions etc. where someone can speak in a rousing and emotionally evocative way, cut through a lot of bullshit and clearly say "this is what matters, and is worth moving mountains and giving everything for." There are a lot of quotes from saints and early 20th century politicians that have that effect, and I can never get enough of it.

    Seems like a bit of an actively independent use of Ni. I have the same btw lol (tho' history for me wasn't my fav. This actually makes me feel like you have stronger Ni than I do lol. Not hard to achieve that accomplishment tho'... )
    lmao yeah I only realized it after a few college course as an (initially) history major and realized memorizing facts like dates and names and places was the last thing I was interested in. I liked learning that W led to X which led to Y because of Z


    Again hell yeah

    I don't want to strictly link this on its own to type because other things affect sense of responsibility too, but you do seem way more consistently focused on duties than any Exxp would be. It's an approach most natural for Ixxjs.
    lol yeh buddy


    Quite strong indication of introversion. I.e. your default response to stress was with an introverted, not an extraverted orientation. Ofcourse big stress I'm sure can affect extraverted types to the degree of turning introverted-ish. But I get the sense that for you it's the default approach.
    Yeah hard to say for certain cause there was a lot of bullying and boys raised by single mothers have a strong tendency towards avoidant behavior when not totally antisocial, but I'm inclined to agree with you here.

    You went overly conscientious there even for Ixxj lol.
    lmao it's not standard practice for an IxxJ to let people spend 3 hours trying to talk him/her into committing a felony against the national government?

    I see this as quite Ti/Ni>Se/Fe.
    So you're saying Se/Fe is "do fun, dumb, impulsive shit?" lol : P

    Okay just to not sound entirely monotone about your typing lol, this is Se for sure in this case (not that I'm saying this is SLE specific. Se creative is able to get impulsive and even brash too).
    Yeah it's not that often I get that fed up and impulsive but it's been known to happen when I get to the point of "I'm just so done with this shit"

    Out of curiosity, multiple wholes...?
    Going back to the references to Discrete Mathematics, if "People" = the Universe of discrete elements (people) I view people more in terms of "peoples" in separate sets and in subsets

    Say for example in the graph below the Union of all equals "People" but the "Rational" circle is instead "Asians" and then "Integers" is Chinese and "Whole" is Han Chinese and "natural" is some smaller subset. "Irrational" might just be "non-Asian people" or "Europeans" (with their own unlisted subsets) with the empty space being "non-Asian & non-European peoples."

    Talking about "people" as a single whole is not something I do. It's a set so broad to be almost meaningless, outside of a very basic taxonomic sense, where it's the assumed universe/context when talking about anything social or typological. Talking about "people as a whole" feels tautological and useless.

    But there are multiple distinct peoples where the definitions are proximate and meaningful enough to consider and address.





    Bit more Se creative than Se lead if these are the two options.
    Interesting. Is that because of the non-materialism? Because indecision is something that tends to get me screaming at traffic or getting somewhat rude and short with people.

    Not very into Ep-like change (though ofcourse Ne is better at this than Se)
    Yeah I respond well enough to surprises I think, but it's more of a reaction like "oh, okay. This is something new that I need to take care of/deal with and get back to what I was up to"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    By not filtering things through binary logic if you will all the time. I'm not saying that they do not do it at all. I see it more flexible but then others might see it as following its own continual train of thought.

    Like this

    instead of n=1, 2, 3,...
    I've never known anyone who truly just had binary logic all the time lol

    Am I following you though, 1st example here is adding extra math or boundaries or whatever you meant, which is necessary to be a proper LSI in your opinion? And second one is SLE discreteness or?

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