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Thread: Fe Exhaustion

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    Default Fe Exhaustion

    I have multiple questions


    (1) how do LIIs (and LSI) handle the constant presence of Fe-leads? In particular ESEs. As introverts don't they get exhausted or irritated after some time?

    I'm asking because my project partner is ESE. At first we only saw each other once a week for a few hours and she held herself back because we didn't know each other well. Actually she still knows nothing about me but now that I tried to smile and nod politely when she's talking she feels like we're friends or something. She expects me to react of everything she says and it's wearing me out. Which leads me to...

    (2) how do I tell an ESE politely to leave me alone (and that bus rides are not for chatting)?

    We see each other more often now to finish the project. She constantly tries to show how clever she is (just ESE thing) and how much fun she is having. I don't care. I just don't want to piss her off. (partly because I don't want to be an asshole and partly because we still have to work together smootly for a few weeks)


    (3) How do I tell an EIE politely that I can't listen to her complaints and grievances all the time.

    I don't want to hurt her or invalidate her feelings but sometimes I feel like she's at war with the world and expects my support. I've already been at this point and it didn't go well. She'll see my lack of concern as an insult eventually. I don't want to put a strain on our relationship but at the moment I'm out of options and I don't want to adjust my behavior on my own expense to make her happy.
    At least not all the time. I can accept that compromises are necessary.

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    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
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    this is so bitchy, how dare you, I hope you improve your hypothetic PoLR soon.


    (jk in memory of few members.)

    edit.
    In all seriousness I think ESEs are responsible and nice ppl for team work. I was actually in plenty of school projects with an ESE friend (the only one responsible and caring enough as friend and partner team).

    I don't feel bothered by them unless they want to talk to me about how evil/mean etc is someone for 1000th time or request/push information (this doesnt happen with friend). I'm thankful for their existence and presence honestly. So don't get you in there completely.
    I've seen LSI bothered by them sometimes, guess is more due Si with Fe, they just sit and listen to ESE patiently. I don't see LxI particularly bothered by Fe, guess. ESEs just obey what LII say or give some caring hand. So do what they do (LxI), just express what you need, what you will do and what do you need them to do for you and why its important as soon as possible before you run out of patience.
    Last edited by Hope; 07-19-2018 at 09:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aki View Post
    this is so bitchy, how dare you, I hope you improve your hypothetic PoLR soon.


    (jk in memory of few members.)

    For a moment I thought you're trying to kill me because I'm not trying to be bitchy - I need advice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    (1) how do LIIs (and LSI) handle the constant presence of Fe-leads? In particular ESEs. As introverts don't they get exhausted or irritated after some time?
    Not really, no. It's my Dual-seeking function, so I tend to respond to it very positively and will seek out experiencing Fe when it's absent. I can and have done 10-11 hour skype conversations with an EIE and the only tiredness was from not sleeping. The only friction I see coming from an ESE is Se butting up against Si.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    (2) how do I tell an ESE politely to leave me alone (and that bus rides are not for chatting)?
    I have little first-hand experience with ESE. I think I would probably just listen politely and not engage very much beyond acknowledgements or simple responses. One of my parents is an SEI that's never caused an issue for us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    (3) How do I tell an EIE politely that I can't listen to her complaints and grievances all the time.
    Only response I have for this is from LSI example. I don't really have an issue with hearing out an EIE's problems most of the time since I seem to default automatically to taking his/her side. The simplest response/resolution I can recall off-hand was just an easy "Yeah @#$% those guys." directed at the grievance. The response seems to generally be "Yeah! They suck!" or a weak Fe protest in their defense that still enjoys the simple directness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aki View Post
    this is so bitchy, how dare you, I hope you improve your hypothetic PoLR soon.


    (jk in memory of few members.)

    edit.
    In all seriousness I think ESEs are responsible and nice ppl for team work. I was actually in plenty of school projects with an ESE friend (the only one responsible and caring enough as friend and partner team).

    I don't feel bothered by them unless they want to talk to me about how evil is someone for 1000th time or request/push information (this doesnt happen with friend). I'm thankful for their existence and presence honestly. So don't get you in there completely.
    That's all true expect my ESE never talks badly about anyone. Working with her hasn't been a problem . It's the periods where we are not working. She's getting too close to quickly.

    Now she even takes the exact same route to uni as me to chat but I absolutely need those 15 minutes bus ride to be alone. Now it's like I can not hide from her. And especially after a long day I don't have the energy to listen to her. We haven't reached the point where both people can shut up and not feel awkward about it. I know her full life story and family tree by now.She keeps me up to date with her brother's problems and plans.
    Telling her that I don't really care about people whom I'll never meet will make me look inconsiderate or something.

    That probably sounds like bitching by now. I don't have anything against her. We are partners who work on the same project and I never wanted our relation to become this personal.


    So do what they do (LxI), just express what you need, what you will do and what do you need them to do for you and why its important as soon as possible before you run out of patience.
    Thank you I'll need to do that. I should know by know that passiveness won't bring me anywhere.
    (But telling someone what I need without hurting them is difficult ... <- place silf-pity here ->)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    Not really, no. It's my Dual-seeking function, so I tend to respond to it very positively and will seek out experiencing Fe when it's absent. I can and have done 10-11 hour skype conversations with an EIE and the only tiredness was from not sleeping. The only friction I see coming from an ESE is Se butting up against Si.



    I have little first-hand experience with ESE. I think I would probably just listen politely and not engage very much beyond acknowledgements or simple responses. One of my parents is an SEI that's never caused an issue for us.



    Only response I have for this is from LSI example. I don't really have an issue with hearing out an EIE's problems most of the time since I seem to default automatically to taking his/her side. The simplest response/resolution I can recall off-hand was just an easy "Yeah @#$% those guys." directed at the grievance. The response seems to generally be "Yeah! They suck!" or a weak Fe protest in their defense that still enjoys the simple directness.
    Thank you @1INT Vault Dweller. I should try the last one. Actually sounds like fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    Not really, no. It's my Dual-seeking function, so I tend to respond to it very positively and will seek out experiencing Fe when it's absent. I can and have done 10-11 hour skype conversations with an EIE and the only tiredness was from not sleeping. The only friction I see coming from an ESE is Se butting up against Si.
    That EIE was me. In reverse, to address my own Ti-Dual Seeking, I have also (obviously) had several 10+ hour skype calls with LSI (and calls nearly as long with LII) and, likewise, the only tiring I experienced was from not having slept that night lmao


    (1) how do LIIs (and LSI) handle the constant presence of Fe-leads?
    They don't "handle" it, they love it. In the absence of Duality (or at least Activity types) any given type can grow restless with the unsatisfying feedbacks or even substitute the absence by attempting to create that atmosphere themselves. I've read some interesting material on what LSI does in the absence of EIE. We can all attempt to simulate our implicitly desired atmosphere and feedbacks, superimposing our subconscious wants onto the environment. Shit like this is why Socionics is the most fascinating system of Typology

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    Tell them you’re on the autism spectrum and you can’t process other people’s emotive expression very well because your brain doesn’t work that way and you have to go home and sleep twelve hours a night to recover under special blankets and are looking for medications to help with it but so far nothing has worked and you are trying so hard to figure out how to get quiet alone time, but don’t make it about them, and they will feel sorry for you and will want to help you and they’ll be a lot quieter and give you more space.

    They will also tell everyone you have autism but small price to pay.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Bonus points if you wear this

    EDIT: I'm teasing in response to Golden

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    But on a more serious note—tho my plan might actually work!—can you shift more of the ESE communication to texting, google sheets, slack, etc.? I think I communicate better with Delta STs textually because they can’t see my face.

    I try to hold back Fe around people who can’t respond to it, but then I have a really hard time functioning at all, which wouldn’t conduce to working on a project with someone.

    As for the EIE, they may not want to lean on you even tho they do. Usually LSI is good with directing ppl toward resources like systems and info that can help sort their shit. You can probably manage that. Or find them some Betas to complain to so you bear less burden.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    Bonus points if you wear this

    EDIT: I'm teasing in response to Golden
    But actually even if I knew the person was roundabout telling me to back away slowly, I’d find this so fucking funny I would for sure go along with it. @Cosmic Teapot, I will buy you that hat if you will wear it.

    Just put it on every time you see the Fe doms coming toward you and let them see you put it on.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Tell them you’re on the autism spectrum and you can’t process other people’s emotive expression very well because your brain doesn’t work that way and you have to go home and sleep twelve hours a night to recover under special blankets and are looking for medications to help with it but so far nothing has worked and you are trying so hard to figure out how to get quiet alone time, but don’t make it about them, and they will feel sorry for you and will want to help you and they’ll be a lot quieter and give you more space.

    They will also tell everyone you have autism but small price to pay.
    Gold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Or find them some Betas to complain to so you bear less burden.
    I'll jump on this grenade, @Cosmic Teapot. Send me all your EIEs

    edit: With pictures...

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    But on a more serious note—tho my plan might actually work!—can you shift more of the ESE communication to texting, google sheets, slack, etc.? I think I communicate better with Delta STs textually because they can’t see my face.

    I try to hold back Fe around people who can’t respond to it, but then I have a really hard time functioning at all, which wouldn’t conduce to working on a project with someone.

    As for the EIE, they may not want to lean on you even tho they do. Usually LSI is good with directing ppl toward resources like systems and info that can help sort their shit. You can probably manage that. Or find them some Betas to complain to so you bear less burden.
    Texting is definitely a good idea! I didn't give her my number because of privacy but now that you say it that may have worked against me.
    I'll see whether I can do the second part with EIE.
    Thanks a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    But actually even if I knew the person was roundabout telling me to back away slowly, I’d find this so fucking funny I would for sure go along with it. @Cosmic Teapot, I will buy you that hat if you will wear it.

    Just put it on every time you see the Fe doms coming toward you and let them see you put it on.
    I'm pretty sure they'll start pampering me (:

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    Texting is definitely a good idea! I didn't give her my number because of privacy but now that you say it that may have worked against me.
    I'll see whether I can do the second part with EIE.
    Thanks a lot.
    Cool. On your bus ride, can you pretend to be reading something assigned to you, or pretend to be asleep? Or wear headphones and say it’s a guided meditation and this is your only chance to get it done, daily, on the bus? Something like that.

    ETA the more I think about it, the more I like the book option. Ti leads usually need to read and their duals should be able to understand that easily.

    Now I’m outta here because you’re asking for less Fe in your life.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    I'm pretty sure they'll start pampering me (:
    Well the EIE won’t. Pamper schmamper.

    But it is a risk with the ESE.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Just tell them that it is enough speaking about given subject, grab your head, take a deep breath, and add "because I am getting fuck*** crazy, and you dont want me to get crazy" ;-) Maybe just without that crazy part. But my guess is ESE will of course forgive you as you wont be the first person to tell her to shut up. If she's talking a lot, she's likely taking nonsense, so attack her confidence and point this out to her.

    Well another approach would be attacking it head-on, so simply just show your disagreement, make disgusting expression, move head side to side, pretend that you listening and then say simply "NO", also ridicule them, laugh at them, make them uncomfortable. So they will seek someone else.

    Another tactic is to focus solely on the job at hand. So keep changing subject all the time so she can see that you want to speak only about job. And try to be constructive and professional.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    (1) how do LIIs (and LSI) handle the constant presence of Fe-leads? In particular ESEs. As introverts don't they get exhausted or irritated after some time?
    the activity of superid stimulates, but not exhausts
    they may annoy by Fe in case they express negative feelings

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    But on a more serious note—tho my plan might actually work!—can you shift more of the ESE communication to texting, google sheets, slack, etc.? I think I communicate better with Delta STs textually because they can’t see my face.

    I try to hold back Fe around people who can’t respond to it, but then I have a really hard time functioning at all, which wouldn’t conduce to working on a project with someone.

    As for the EIE, they may not want to lean on you even tho they do. Usually LSI is good with directing ppl toward resources like systems and info that can help sort their shit. You can probably manage that. Or find them some Betas to complain to so you bear less burden.
    What do you mean by "hold back Fe", how do you define this Fe ?
    And what kind of response do you expect from Fe suggestive types ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Cool. On your bus ride, can you pretend to be reading something assigned to you, or pretend to be asleep? Or wear headphones and say it’s a guided meditation and this is your only chance to get it done, daily, on the bus? Something like that.

    ETA the more I think about it, the more I like the book option. Ti leads usually need to read and their duals should be able to understand that easily.

    Now I’m outta here because you’re asking for less Fe in your life.
    The book option sounds kinda elegant. No talking. No explaining myself. Just silence... and yeah outta my thread.

    On a serious note I need to think about my behavior towards ESEs and EIEs. So far this thread and its contributors gave me a lot to consider. Mainly that I'm not being communicative enough. Admitting that is hard. I'm expecting the ESE to read my mind and leave me alone. When I'm not telling her what's bothering me I might stay out of an argument but in reality I'm not even giving her a chance to pay attention to my problem areas.
    Last edited by Cosmic Teapot; 07-19-2018 at 08:53 AM. Reason: corrected a word

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    Quote Originally Posted by falsehope View Post
    Just tell them that it is enough speaking about given subject, grab your head, take a deep breath, and add "because I am getting fuck*** crazy, and you dont want me to get crazy" ;-) Maybe just without that crazy part. But my guess is ESE will of course forgive you as you wont be the first person to tell her to shut up. If she's talking a lot, she's likely taking nonsense, so attack her confidence and point this out to her.

    Well another approach would be attacking it head-on, so simply just show your disagreement, make disgusting expression, move head side to side, pretend that you listening and then say simply "NO", also ridicule them, laugh at them, make them uncomfortable. So they will seek someone else.

    Another tactic is to focus solely on the job at hand. So keep changing subject all the time so she can see that you want to speak only about job. And try to be constructive and professional.
    lol that's not me at all. Maybe it works for someone else, thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    (1) how do LIIs (and LSI) handle the constant presence of Fe-leads? In particular ESEs. As introverts don't they get exhausted or irritated after some time?
    That's usually no serious issue for me. ESE are -suggestive and -PoLR – I know how to handle them. ...most of them.
    Exhausted? No. Irritated? Sometimes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    the activity of superid stimulates, but not exhausts
    they may annoy by Fe in case they express negative feelings
    Yes, I agree with your statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shining View Post
    What do you mean by "hold back Fe", how do you define this Fe ?
    And what kind of response do you expect from Fe suggestive types ?
    The way I define this Fe is basically expression. Holding it back means it feels polite to try to be less expressive. It is a struggle, but I can make my face much blanker, or more studious, or businesslike, or whatever seems to be appropriate. I can say less, speak more slowly, leave spaces in my speech, be silent. I’ve tried quite a few things since learning about socionics. Not saying it works very well tho.

    Fe suggestives mirror my expression. They apparently don’t produce it innately, which when I was younger I didn’t understand, I thought they were probably a lot like me because I was mostly seeing them when they were interacting with me. Their faces brighten, they smile more, joke around (VERY bad jokes!), loosen up, become more expansive. Stuff like that.

    So the difference between Fe suggestive and Fe polr is that one is responding in a detailed way to me, and the other seems not to be responding much ... it can be like a blank in the case of SLI. Fe polrs sometimes have literally made the same comment to me more than once back to back in a conversation because what I responded with went unprocessed. Or what they said went unprocessed?

    SLI: “The yellow and gray paint you chose for the kitchen work well together.”

    Me: “Oh thanks! I just wanted to match the stainless steel, really, and then I needed a warm color.”

    SLI: [Looks at me blankly.] “The yellow and gray work well together.”

    Me: “... Um ok ... uh ... thanks.” [Awkward grin.]

    PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS
    Last edited by golden; 07-18-2018 at 10:13 PM.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    The book option sounds kinda elgand. No talking. No explaining myself. Just silence... and yeah outta my thread.

    On a serious note I need to think about my behavior towards ESEs and EIEs. So far this thread and its contributors gave me a lot to consider. Mainly that I'm not being communicative enough. Admitting that is hard. I'm expecting the ESE to read my mind and leave me alone. When I'm not telling her what's bothering me I might stay out of an argument but in reality I'm not even giving her a chance to pay attention to my problem areas.
    I said I’d go away but I’m Fe so I’m back.

    Your post is so thoughtful. It would have meant a lot to me to have ever known that an SLI was questioning their lack of communicativeness toward me, so I found it touching.

    I don’t believe you or the ESE is doing anything wrong, Cosmic. It is really hard to give someone feedback that could amount to “Dont behave in the way thst comes naturally to you.”
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    The way I define this Fe is basically expression. Holding it back means it feels polite to try to be less expressive. It is a struggle, but I can make my face much blanker, or more studious, or businesslike, or whatever seems to be appropriate. I can say less, speak more slowly, leave spaces in my speech, be silent. I’ve tried quite a few things since keaning about socionics. Not saying it works very well tho.

    Fe suggestives mirror my expression. They apparently don’t produce it innately, which when I was younger I didn’t understand, I thought they were probably a lot like me because I was mostly seeing them when they were interacting with me. Their faces brighten, they smile more, joke around (VERY bad jokes!), loosen up, become more expansive. Stuff like that.

    So the difference between Fe suggestive and Fe polr is that one is responding in a detailed way to me, and the other seems not to be responding much ... it can be like a blank in the case of SLI. Fe polrs sometimes have literally made the same comment to me more than once back to back in a conversation because what I responded with went unprocessed. Or what they said went unprocessed?

    SLI: “The yellow and gray paint you chose for the kitchen work well together.”

    Me: “Oh thanks! I just wanted to match the stainless steel, really, and then I needed a warm color.”

    SLI: [Looks at me blankly.] “The yellow and gray work well together.”

    Me: “... Um ok ... uh ... thanks.” [Awkward grin.]

    PLEASE EXPLAIN THIS
    Thanks for your explanations, very helpful to me

    Despite their emotional responsiveness, i guess LxI are mostly unaware of their emotional expression ?

    Is there any conscious focus needed to mirror the emotions for LxI, or by sole suggestivity is it achieved ?
    I would think it could be possible for LxI to try to mimic consciously the emotions, but most of the time it would look awkward, so trying to voluntarily express emotions would be Fe polr (but in this case they don't want to, it is just to fit in), there would be better awareness of emotional expectations from Fe polr (even if less inclined to act on it).

    Is that make sense sometimes to think you want to reciprocate emotions but feel inadequate in doing so for LxI, so eventually attenuating the emotional expression ?
    For me, i feel like i want but don't want at the same time, it's maybe linked to the felt incompetence regulating my own emotional expression and so the resulting possibility to feel ashamed for that ?
    And some kind of ambivalence about emotions, like sometimes Fe can be really disturbing and annoying, when loud and chaotic it's just makes me run away, though i don't think it's often Fe lead who disturbs me this way, more about other extravert type i would guess.
    Are LxI supposed to enjoy this kind of loud and chaotic emotional expression, in group or crowd ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shining View Post

    Is there any conscious focus needed to mirror the emotions for LxI, or by sole suggestivity is it achieved ?
    I think they can't help it.

    I used to date an LII; literally, I'd laugh and he'd laugh, I'd cry and he'd cry.

    W/ Ti creatives I feel like I can't pull them around as easily, they can sort of...shut themselves off?

    Sample size too small?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shining View Post
    Despite their emotional responsiveness, i guess LxI are mostly unaware of their emotional expression ?
    Speaking only for myself, I'm not unaware, just not controlled. The emotions just happen or they just don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by shining View Post
    Is there any conscious focus needed to mirror the emotions for LxI, or by sole suggestivity is it achieved ?
    A conscious focus is not needed for me. All I need is a sense of sincerity in those emotions from the other person. That's why I'm such a big fan of Ego Fe's. If the emotions seem forced, affected, or otherwise disingenuous I don't mirror anything except the minimum for politeness and I tend to grow suspicious of the other person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shining View Post
    Despite their emotional responsiveness, i guess LxI are mostly unaware of their emotional expression ?
    I am not one so I can’t be sure, but I feel they don’t have a lot of control over it.

    Is there any conscious focus needed to mirror the emotions for LxI, or by sole suggestivity is it achieved ?
    I would think it could be possible for LxI to try to mimic consciously the emotions, but most of the time it would look awkward, so trying to voluntarily express emotions would be Fe polr (but in this case they don't want to, it is just to fit in), there would be better awareness of emotional expectations from Fe polr
    As @lemontrees said, the mirroring is not conscious.

    LXI can do a good job with being consistently polite in various social situations, and a couple of the ones I know who are parents have a kind of parent role they step into and it’s pretty expressive. I think this is about half conscious.

    Is that make sense sometimes to think you want to reciprocate emotions but feel inadequate in doing so for LxI, so eventually attenuating the emotional expression ?
    Again maybe more a question for LXIs to answer. I think this may be more LII-ish, the Se polr seems to create less certainty in self-assertion and that may be a factor, just guessing here. My husband is LSI and he says he feels uncertain about the people side of things but it’s not so obvious to me from his behavior.

    For me, i feel like i want but don't want at the same time, it's maybe linked to the felt incompetence regulating my own emotional expression and so the resulting possibility to feel ashamed for that ?
    And some kind of ambivalence about emotions, like sometimes Fe can be really disturbing and annoying, when loud and chaotic it's just makes me run away, though i don't think it's often Fe lead who disturbs me this way, more about other extravert type i would guess.
    Are LxI supposed to enjoy this kind of loud and chaotic emotional expression, in group or crowd ?
    I don’t enjoy merely loud and chaotic environments, I like emotionally rich and purposefully stimulating ones. I like it to have some organization. I think Fe maybe is not soooo chaotic? It’s still a rational IE.

    Quote Originally Posted by lemontrees View Post
    I think they can't help it.

    I used to date an LII; literally, I'd laugh and he'd laugh, I'd cry and he'd cry.

    W/ Ti creatives I feel like I can't pull them around as easily, they can sort of...shut themselves off?

    Sample size too small?
    Ti creative is still receptive to my Fe but they push back with their own extroverted dominant IE.
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    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    Speaking only for myself, I'm not unaware, just not controlled. The emotions just happen or they just don't.



    A conscious focus is not needed for me. All I need is a sense of sincerity in those emotions from the other person. That's why I'm such a big fan of Ego Fe's. If the emotions seem forced, affected, or otherwise disingenuous I don't mirror anything except the minimum for politeness and I tend to grow suspicious of the other person.
    We cross-posted. I was glad you mentioned the “grow suspicious” thing because I’ve seen that quite a bit but wasn’t sure what an LXI might say about it. In LII this has looked almost like paranoia to me and I felt less able to address it and wasn’t sure what an ESE would do differently.
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    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    We cross-posted. I was glad you mentioned the “grow suspicious” thing because I’ve seen that quite a bit but wasn’t sure what an LXI might say about it. In LII this has looked almost like paranoia to me and I felt less able to address it and wasn’t sure what an ESE would do differently.
    My response probably comes across as mildly paranoid as well--but maybe less conspiratorial because Ne PoLR. There's just a sense of "Oh, so you're not being totally real with me. Do you have an angle or are you just insecure about something?" Then a lead-Fe comes along and it's a big relief because now there's a "emotionally rich and purposefully stimulating" environment that doesn't feel like a put-on.

    Not sure if an ESE or SEI ever came across as fake to me (or if that's even what you were getting at). I just end up feeling either bad or like I'm walking on eggshells because I'm so bad at the Si comfort & consideration thing. My SEI family is pretty used to and gets some amusement out of it, but there's always an undercurrent of "You really shouldn't be saying these things, ya know," whenever I'm in town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous Lynx View Post
    Wew lad, shots fired. Shit-starting Fe rants ftw. See, Cosmic? I've validated Your original point - EIEs do love ranting about shit lmao
    Beta master quadra; quadra war now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1INT Vault Dweller View Post
    My response probably comes across as mildly paranoid as well--but maybe less conspiratorial because Ne PoLR. There's just a sense of "Oh, so you're not being totally real with me. Do you have an angle or are you just insecure about something?" Then a lead-Fe comes along and it's a big relief because now there's a "emotionally rich and purposefully stimulating" environment that doesn't feel like a put-on.

    Not sure if an ESE or SEI ever came across as fake to me (or if that's even what you were getting at). I just end up feeling either bad or like I'm walking on eggshells because I'm so bad at the Si comfort & consideration thing. My SEI family is pretty used to and gets some amusement out of it, but there's always an undercurrent of "You really shouldn't be saying these things, ya know," whenever I'm in town.
    Well Cosmic’s thread is all fucked up now.

    Ime Fe valuers don’t find Fe fake, and Fi valuers don’t find Fi fake. Fe may find Fi fake and vice versa.

    With LIIs I just have felt a bit like I’m doing something wrong, too harshly, in very close relations. It may be the Si thing.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Well Cosmic’s thread is all fucked up now.
    Se derailment in action. Thread belongs to EIEs and LSIs, now.

    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    With LIIs I just have felt a bit like I’m doing something wrong, too harshly, in very close relations. It may be the Si thing.
    @Luminous Lynx has an LII friend I've crossed paths with a couple time and the impression was always "sensitive." Guess they can't handle some Se, even if it's someone's Mobilizing, the poor little things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    I don’t enjoy merely loud and chaotic environments, I like emotionally rich and purposefully stimulating ones. I like it to have some organization. I think Fe maybe is not soooo chaotic? It’s still a rational IE.
    Yes, what i perceive as loud and chaotic behaviours could be Se (and Exxp types tendency more generally), and not Fe.


    Thanks to all of you for enlightening things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    It would have meant a lot to me to have ever known that an SLI was questioning their lack of communicativeness toward me, so I found it touching.
    You're reaching into an open wound right there. In my teens I fell for an EIE. It didn't work out for dozens of reasons. One of them was that the EIE grew increasingly frustrated with my withdrawnness. People often tell me that they never know what's going on my head and for some time I took pride in that. In retrospect I wrecked a number of (platonic and romantic) relationships with my behavior...

    I don’t believe you or the ESE is doing anything wrong, Cosmic. It is really hard to give someone feedback that could amount to “Dont behave in the way thst comes naturally to you.”
    ...It would be nice to say "I can't be helped. I am like that." but when I read stories about SLIs in pm's and on the forum I'm constantly dumbfounded by how perfectly many match my own behavior and how it affects the people around me negatively. When I do something it's because I'm convinced it's the best option even when people say I'm smug, selfish and cold but now with a mountain of thoughts and memories to process from a new perspective I wonder whether I'm actually isolating myself too much and cutting out the alternatives that I need.


    Obviously I won't leave this thread super enlightened and transformed and all - it's just ... people are full of shit sometimes and I'm realizing that about myself, too since I'm actively watching myself It's gut wrenching mostly but necessary. Who knows maybe I even earn a friend.


    Thanks for returning to say the above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    You're reaching into an open wound right there. In my teens I fell for an EIE. It didn't work out for dozens of reasons. One of them was that the EIE grew increasingly frustrated with my withdrawnness. People often tell me that they never know what's going on my head and for some time I took pride in that. In retrospect I wrecked a number of (platonic and romantic) relationships with my behavior...
    I’m not sure what to say. Your post had also touched on a wound of mine as I was married to an LSE with many Delta family members (including some SLIs) and it went ... let’s just say badly.

    I want to point out here I know two IEEs I have literally had tell me and my (second) husband, “I know how you are feeling,” “I know you,” meaning know you inside. As it happens we did not feel known, we felt our boundaries had been crashed and that the perceptions were wrong. But maybe they were geared toward SLI. I know two deeply kind and respectful IEEs who also reach out that way across silences and barriers where no one else will, and it’s not what I need but it is a skill of theirs and I recognize and appreciate their heartfelt gestures.

    I reach out to people also, but probably not as sensitively, and I need more information from them than an IEE does to succeed, I think.

    ...It would be nice to say "I can't be helped. I am like that." but when I read stories about SLIs in pm's and on the forum I'm constantly dumbfounded by how perfectly many match my own behavior and how it affects the people around me negatively. When I do something it's because I'm convinced it's the best option even when people say I'm smug, selfish and cold but now with a mountain of thoughts and memories to process from a new perspective I wonder whether I'm actually isolating myself too much and cutting out the alternatives that I need.
    It’s good to take a realistic look at yourself. I would only say please don’t be harsh on yourself in the doing. And that the fact you are looking to understand your weaknesses means you are a fundamentally decent and strong person. I risk sounding pat here but I do mean it.

    One of the two kind IEEs I mentioned had an SLI boyfriend (someone I respect), her high school sweetheart. They were on and off for years, and it was always down to him going off to undertake something he believed he needed to. I’m wary of presenting Socionics success stories but they did eventually marry and appear happy and functional together. Some of the things he did at the cost of putting the relationship on hold allowed him to build strengths that now look to me like foundations for their financial security. I can’t really fault that. I remember it was hard on her at the time.

    When you say “isolating myself and cutting out alternatives” it just sounds ridiculously much like saying “Socionics is real, my duals are IEE, and I need them.” Because connecting and presenting alternatives is what they do. Do you have any IEEs in your life?

    I had some seemingly intractable problems and felt like a failure when I met my second husband, and I have been able gradually to work on those problems having greater clarity about them and understanding what steps to take to resolve them—and there I describe part of an EIE-LSI duality. My problems are not all gone, I am not magically a better person, but I can accept myself better.

    Obviously I won't leave this thread super enlightened and transformed and all - it's just ... people are full of shit sometimes and I'm realizing that about myself, too since I'm actively watching myself It's gut wrenching mostly but necessary. Who knows maybe I even earn a friend.

    Thanks for returning to say the above.
    Humility and honesty are great ways to earn friends. Thanks for being honest.
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    It's good to hear that your second husband makes you happy!

    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    When you say “isolating myself and cutting out alternatives” it just sounds ridiculously much like saying “Socionics is real, my duals are IEE, and I need them.” Because connecting and presenting alternatives is what they do. Do you have any IEEs in your life?
    haha placing too much emphasis on socionics irl would be a bit ridiculous, yes. Even duals can be people who aren't meant for each other for various reasons. At this point in time I have no IEEs in my life. There where some but I didn't stay in contact. Why? I don't know! I'm shy and kind of a loner. And I'm a CS major. Guess how many IEEs are running around here. I'm no trying to fish for compassion. It's just how it is.
    My longest friendship was with an IEE but by the time we've reached our twenties we had changed radically. It's a complicated and longs story. We parted and so far I have not found a comparable connection (except with an EII but that's off topic).


    I probably sound like dweeb but there is a boog called "How to win friends an influence people", written By Dale Carnegie (IEE). I'm not exaggerating when I say that it changed my outlook on how to deal with people completely. I still read in it from time to time. And it works as a pillar, too.


    So! I don't want to be a buffoon but I feel like I've been hit by an epic wave of niceness and I don't know how to handle. Thank you for caring so much, golden.
    I need to give this thread and myself a little rest and think before I meet the ESE again.

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    Lol and I was experiencing lots of torment when I reveived plenty of Fi feeling validation [and mimimal debate]. I'm still shaking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    I have multiple questions

    (1) how do LIIs (and LSI) handle the constant presence of Fe-leads? In particular ESEs. As introverts don't they get exhausted or irritated after some time?
    If I have to be too active in expressing then sure that would be tiring and since I do get to (unconsciously) mirror some Fe egos a lot - when I'm connected enough with them, so to speak - it can be a bit tiring after a while, yes but it's not too bad. I don't get irritated though. And I do get something out of it, it's overall a good experience so I don't mind. I do also get to rest enough when they are expressing themselves for long enough so then I'm just listening for those parts.


    I'm asking because my project partner is ESE. At first we only saw each other once a week for a few hours and she held herself back because we didn't know each other well. Actually she still knows nothing about me but now that I tried to smile and nod politely when she's talking she feels like we're friends or something. She expects me to react of everything she says and it's wearing me out. Which leads me to...

    (2) how do I tell an ESE politely to leave me alone (and that bus rides are not for chatting)?
    I just tell people that I have to go do something now. I actually do that with a Fe ego regularly (not sure if he's EIE or IEI-Fe but a lot of Fe there for sure), it's not an issue. I do it with him because I'm not that close or truly interested in him (and hence his stuff) beyond a point. I do enjoy listening to him too for a while - and this in a big part is due to the Fe way of expressing stuff - but beyond that point, no.


    (3) How do I tell an EIE politely that I can't listen to her complaints and grievances all the time.
    I usually don't mind this but once I did actually ask an EIE to just stop talking about her problems for a while (because I was in a problematic situation, long story). She didn't hate me for it or anything but she was a good friend of mine so maybe that helped.

    Normally though, it just puts me in problem-solving mode, so I just listen and make sense of what's being said then see if I can contribute to help with something, help sort the thoughts out at least where it seems needed. Plus that unconscious mirroring (it seems to feel validating to some Fe egos at least, I got positive comments on it before).

    That problem-solving mode isn't tiring btw, at all, it's quite normal and natural for me and even good. That is, I have something to work with (the problem) while I also get emotional involvement with the Fe ego (some negativity as long as it's not directed at me and isn't just stupid self-pity is fine).


    I don't want to hurt her or invalidate her feelings but sometimes I feel like she's at war with the world and expects my support. I've already been at this point and it didn't go well. She'll see my lack of concern as an insult eventually.
    What did you try to do?


    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    That probably sounds like bitching by now. I don't have anything against her. We are partners who work on the same project and I never wanted our relation to become this personal.

    (...)(But telling someone what I need without hurting them is difficult ...)
    Yeah the thing is, looks like it's a pattern with how I just directly tell them what I need, maybe that's the Se, I don't know, but I definitely never had that problem of getting too close / personal with someone too fast. I just know how to keep my distance by doing these polite excuses I mentioned above and in general not getting myself involved where I think it would not be appropriate for the relationship distance.
    Last edited by Myst; 07-19-2018 at 06:31 PM.

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