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Thread: LSE says NO to SLE right in his face

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    Default LSE says NO to SLE right in his face

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...nt-trump-video

    Those darn Dutchies, always so rude.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...nt-trump-video

    Those darn Dutchies, always so rude.
    Trump was treated so unfairly there, after all the nice things he said about the Dutch.

    What an asshole. It is easy to see how he took a huge inheritance and underperformed the stock market for thirty years. It is harder to see why people think he should be re-elected.

    Everyone knows that saying nice things about someone (before saying bad things about them in another venue) should totally make up for destroying an entire economic segment of their economy.

    Seriously, Trump has the economic understanding of a third grader. "Build a wall" to keep out immigrants. (I wonder if Ohio should do this with Michigan?) "Steel tariffs are good for America". Uh, no, they aren't, and GM said so, because they will raise the cost of cars for the people least able to afford to pay more.
    He's not making decisions based on what benefits his base, he's basically doing everything he can to dismantle anything that Obama accomplished. If he kills something like the TPP in the meantime, it wasn't for economic reasons. It was personal, between him and the Kenyan.

    And just to keep this on topic, I think the Dutch Prime Minister could be SLI. He moves like an SLI friend of mine who doesn't tolerate BS very well. An Extinguishment relationship would result in both of them pointing out that the other person's ideas are junk. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 07-03-2018 at 02:42 PM.

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    LSE says NO to SLE right in his face


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Trump was treated so unfairly there, after all the nice things he said about the Dutch.

    What an asshole. It is easy to see how he took a huge inheritance and underperformed the stock market for thirty years. It is harder to see why people think he should be re-elected.

    Everyone knows that saying nice things about someone (before saying bad things about them in another venue) should totally make up for destroying an entire economic segment of their economy.

    Seriously, Trump has the economic understanding of a third grader. "Build a wall" to keep out immigrants. (I wonder if Ohio should do this with Michigan?) "Steel tariffs are good for America". Uh, no, they aren't, and GM said so, because they will raise the cost of cars for the people least able to afford to pay more.
    He's not making decisions based on what benefits his base, he's basically doing everything he can to dismantle anything that Obama accomplished. If he kills something like the TPP in the meantime, it wasn't for economic reasons. It was personal, between him and the Kenyan.

    And just to keep this on topic, I think the Dutch Prime Minister could be SLI. He moves like an SLI friend of mine who doesn't tolerate BS very well. An Extinguishment relationship would result in both of them pointing out that the other person's ideas are junk. Any thoughts?
    The Trumpanzees are hostile bigots that want to destroy a liberal democracy and the tolerance that goes with it. We all ought to be slapping their face metaphorically right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    LSE says NO to SLE right in his face

    No opinion on type: ex grabbed me out of a car I had been travelling in for about 7 hours to get to HIS PLACE, along with my brother and his gf..dragged me across the lawn in FRONT of everybody who was there and slapped me across the face...because I didnt call and he had been waiting all day to hear from me and see me (oh noes). I should have felt offended or something, and I was partly for it being a bit humiliating..but deep down, I felt more loved.

    When he gets this way. to much PLOW PLOW bang bigger larger, I get more calm. Calmer and calmer and for some reason this dynamic just works.

    No I don;t think he is SLE.

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    I had the impression the Dutch guy was actually kissing Trump's ass?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    I had the impression the Dutch guy was actually kissing Trump's ass?
    REally?

    He micro shrugs his shoulders several times..he phoney smiles..and he also clearly states that its not a great deal and that its not worked out yet. Nothing here said ass kissing by any means, it actually said the total opposite.

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    That didn´t seem especially awkward to me? He was just kind of directly saying the truth? Is that awkward? I do it all the time IRL
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    REally?

    He micro shrugs his shoulders several times..he phoney smiles..and he also clearly states that its not a great deal and that its not worked out yet. Nothing here said ass kissing by any means, it actually said the total opposite.
    lol to kiss one's ass is usually pretty fake, yes

    did you listen to what they say or are you stuck to a micro shrug at min 0.05?, he's nodding for the entire thing.

    Trump " We'll meet the Eu, we're gonna work something out very soon, they're gonna see if we can work smth out, and that'll be good and we'll work it out, and it'll be positive, and if we don't it'll be positive also coz.." (what a sentence..)

    Dutch guy "No. It'll be positive"

    Dutch translation for dummies: ofc we gonna work smth out, no way we cannot, we all suck on Trump's ass, we need you, mr lova lova.

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    Rutte seems LII to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    lol to kiss one's ass is usually pretty fake, yes

    did you listen to what they say or are you stuck to a micro shrug at min 0.05?, he's nodding for the entire thing.

    Trump " We'll meet the Eu, we're gonna work something out very soon, they're gonna see if we can work smth out, and that'll be good and we'll work it out, and it'll be positive, and if we don't it'll be positive also coz.." (what a sentence..)

    Dutch guy "No. It'll be positive"

    Dutch translation for dummies: ofc we gonna work smth out, no way we cannot, we all suck on Trump's ass, we need you, mr lova lova.
    I'm Dutch and have no clue what you are talking about.

    I can tell right off the bat you and I have very different opinions about this video. The Dutch guy said its not positive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    That didn´t seem especially awkward to me? He was just kind of directly saying the truth? Is that awkward? I do it all the time IRL
    That wasn;t the awkard part about it. What was awkward is that they are both saying different things on what SHOULD be a cause for celebration - mutual agreement on a deal.

    The awkward part comes from the broken social contract in favour of strong arm which isn't a common sight in the modern world social realm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    I'm Dutch and have no clue what you are talking about.

    I can tell right off the bat you and I have very different opinions about this video. The Dutch guy said its not positive.
    I didn't hear well lol, but it's the same thing:

    Trump, "if it doesn't work out it'll be positive also coz...play mobil"

    Dutch guy "no it's not positive, we'll work something out".

    They're agreeing to cooperate... it's not positive if they don't... duh.

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    welcome on support trump from the netherlands without you even realizing it

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    oh sorry sorry I checked, Dutch president was actually defending his iron and steel exportations in the US, Trump administration has imposed high rates for Europe to pay, and they were talking about these rates. I totally missed the point lol

    anyway.. I could have never told from this exchange, guess my english is too too bad, or Dutch guy is too polite

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    I'm just impressed that Trump is mentally capable of not hurling his feces at people.

    I didn't think the bar could be set any lower after Sarah Palin. I don't want to be alive when the bar is set lower than Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xerx View Post
    I'm just impressed that Trump is mentally capable of not hurling his feces at people.

    I didn't think the bar could be set any lower after Sarah Palin. I don't want to be alive when the bar is set lower than Trump.
    Oh, come on, @xerx. Don't wish your life away. We're almost there:



    It only took a few years for Idiocracy to go from satire to documentary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    I had the impression the Dutch guy was actually kissing Trump's ass?
    He did! Lets face it, ever since the American Revolution (when Amsterdam bankers financed it and made a profit until the debt was finally paid off in 1830), money has been flowing steadily from the US to the Netherlands, and this prime minister's first and foremost job is to secure that it stays that way.

    ETA: I just read in the paper that after the meeting, journalists heard Trump say to his staff that he liked the guy.

    But back to the reason why I started this thread. I think that's generally true for SLEs: they have more respect for you when you give them a bit of a fight, without going over the top. In a way, LSEs and SLEs can balance each other out this way, and come to some form of cooperation. They are not in the least afraid of each other.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    He did! Lets face it, ever since the American Revolution (when Amsterdam bankers financed it and made a profit until the debt was finally paid off in 1830), money has been flowing steadily from the US to the Netherlands, and this prime minister's first and foremost job is to secure that it stays that way.

    ETA: I just read in the paper that after the meeting, journalists heard Trump say to his staff that he liked the guy.

    But back to the reason why I started this thread. I think that's generally true for SLEs: they have more respect for you when you give them a bit of a fight, without going over the top. In a way, LSEs and SLEs can balance each other out this way, and come to some form of cooperation. They are not in the least afraid of each other.
    @consentingadult, I agree that SLE's and LSE's are able to cooperate on some level.

    I work with an LSE and an SLE, and while their areas of responsibility don't much overlap, when they do interact, they seem to do so on a wavelength that I'm not privy to.

    I've tried to intuit just what that might be. It's not as if they exactly like each other, since they tend to stay far apart and almost never talk to each other unless they have to get agreement from each other, which happens occasionally. Nor do they dislike each other. I've never seen them poke at each other, as they sometimes do with others.

    I thought it might be some aristocratic thing that I don't share, where they both recognize hierarchies and the other person's position in one. Or I thought it might be some form of giving respect to a person so you get them to respect you in return. But whatever it is, they seem to be able to instantly understand each other's goals and they don't like to discuss anything deeper, because that's where the misunderstandings start and conversation ends.

    This is very different from the way in which I interact with them both. The SLE is looking to me for future direction and emotional support, and the LSE is looking for a square deal, clearly defined procedures, and an area for himself where he can have respected competency. With me more than with each other, the hierarchy thing is already fixed in their minds, and they don't challenge it.

    This is in stark contrast to the LIE's I work with, who are like a ring of circling sharks. I can read their minds. "I don't like being dependent on this guy. What will it take for me to replace him? How can I do what he does, because I can't depend on him forever. Is this place the best opportunity for me, or do I need to go somewhere else? And dammit, I need more money." Lol. The whole goal of business is to train your replacements so the company survives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I've tried to intuit just what that might be. It's not as if they exactly like each other, since they tend to stay far apart and almost never talk to each other unless they have to get agreement from each other, which happens occasionally. Nor do they dislike each other. I've never seen them poke at each other, as they sometimes do with others.
    The point here is, that they don't rub each other the wrong way: The LSE's suggestive function is the SLE's PoLR. SLEs know, in a sense, that Fi exists, but LSEs do not even know it until they get under its influence, and even forget about it when the influence disappears. Likewise, the SLE's suggestive, Ni, is the LSE's PoLR, and also here it is not likely that the SLE will rub the LSE the wrong way.

    This is more or less what we saw in the video: What Trump said about the deal with the EU, is incorrect from an Ni/Ne POV. But this did not rub Rutte the wrong way, because he interpreted it in terms of Te, practical effectiveness and efficiency. When Rutte expressed this opinion, he merely stated what to him was a fact (Te), meanwhile showing a big, impersonal smile (Si), which Trump can deal with. Rutte didn't make it personal (like an ESI or EII would), so no offense was taken by Trump.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    thanks @consent! it's good to know I'm not hallucinating sometime indeed, they oozed friendliness, with other eu politicians u can see it in their posture alone that they don't like Trump, but... Mr Rutte was smiling, nodding and leaning towards him!

    and interesting analysis

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    Mark Rutte - mb LIE
    Trump - EIE

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Those darn Dutchies, always so rude.
    to say "no" to USA is so not politcorrectly as they have large army which permanently kills civilians and the ones who protects them, supports bandits and terrotistic islamists like in Syria. the righ words to USA would be "don't kill me and just take all my money"
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    thanks @consent! it's good to know I'm not hallucinating sometime indeed, they oozed friendliness, with other eu politicians u can see it in their posture alone that they don't like Trump, but... Mr Rutte was smiling, nodding and leaning towards him!

    and interesting analysis
    Note that Rutte's behavior did not mean he likes Trump. He's simply quite impersonal, not letting anyone else, e.g. Trump, affect his mood. Rutte did not diasgree with Trump, he disagreed with the content of the statement made by Trump. That's a big difference!

    Rutte's leaning towards Trump is typical LSE behavior: taking care of the physical well being of the person you interact with.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 09-22-2018 at 01:01 PM.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Lol at this thread. God socionics is utter garbage. And EIE for Trump is one thing I agree on. That man is not a object sensor. Oh wait he holds his legs open so his dick is displayed and shakes your hand hard he MUST be zhukov.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Lol at this thread. God socionics is utter garbage. And EIE for Trump is one thing I agree on. That man is not a object sensor. Oh wait he holds his legs open so his dick is displayed and shakes your hand hard he MUST be zhukov.
    You are probably mistaking Trump for EIE, because he is a neurotic user of his Mobilizing function.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Its easy to hack Se when you have money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timber View Post
    Lol at this thread. God socionics is utter garbage. And EIE for Trump is one thing I agree on. That man is not a object sensor. Oh wait he holds his legs open so his dick is displayed and shakes your hand hard he MUST be zhukov.
    His hands between his legs are making the sign of the pussy. Make of that what you will.

    I still think he's SLE.

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    Im dominant I hold my legs open for a crotch display Im so masculine that means I am the alpha male.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I still think he's SLE.
    Same here.

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    SEE is my offer

    he feels round and soft (P) and not like he has a stick up his butt (J)
    "that it will never come again is what makes life sweet"
    - emily dickinson

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    Quote Originally Posted by eko View Post
    SEE is my offer

    he feels round and soft (P) and not like he has a stick up his butt (J)
    I will admit that he did look SEE when younger. I just hate the thought of sharing a Quadra with Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I will admit that he did look SEE when younger. I just hate the thought of sharing a Quadra with Trump.
    Change quadra
    "that it will never come again is what makes life sweet"
    - emily dickinson

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    His hands between his legs are making the sign of the pussy. Make of that what you will.
    Luminati confirmed.

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    Rutte moves and makes some expressions like Stephen Colbert. I agree with Adam. SLI?

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    I really cannot understand people that don't see how Trump is SEE at this point, the guy is a genius emotional manipulator. He doesn't think of facts, he's not interested in them at all.

    Both ILE and SLE actually understand and respect facts, they just present them subordinated to a point, they are logical types (logical doesn't necessarily mean reasonable - since ethical types are like that in real life). SEE and even IEE just aren't interested in facts, unless they complement their preconceived notions.

    Trump is a genius marketer too.

    https://youtu.be/sdtXYqkKdp8
    Last edited by Soupman; 07-12-2018 at 04:58 AM.

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    "lol I'm a great speaker-- its true because lots of people are here." well, a lot of people go because you're the president and people always show up for a president. compare your numbers to theirs at similar events if you want to control for that effect and then you can sort of determine how much of it is "great speaking" and not just the office. you know who else drew big crowds, if big crowds = great, it functions to demean "great speaker" not elevate donald trump

    that's as far as I got

    I actually do sort of think donald will be good for america long term, but he's so cringe in the meanwhile. we're sort of in that painful phase of learning the hard way, but its something we've got to go through

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    "lol I'm a great speaker-- its true because lots of people are here." well, a lot of people go because you're the president and people always show up for a president. compare your numbers to theirs at similar events if you want to control for that effect and then you can sort of determine how much of it is "great speaking" and not just the office. you know who else drew big crowds, if big crowds = great, it functions to demean "great speaker" not elevate donald trump

    that's as far as I got

    I actually do sort of think donald will be good for america long term, but he's so cringe in the meanwhile. we're sort of in that painful phase of learning the hard way, but its something we've got to go through

    When you pop a blister it always hurts the most JUST before the puss bursts out.. this immigration deal was in the works for a loooong time. I remember watching a docu flick in like grade 7, which puts it at 2000, and it was about Texas land owners upset at the wetbacks passing over the Rio Grande.

    There are so many jewels on the horizon for humanity, and really if there is one thing you can say about America its go big or home. They want to be totally dysfunctional because there was a number of wars and life wasn't as grand as was promised and the environmental party is over globally, and the kids are shooting up other kids and 9/11 was the Capitols wake up call, Katniss is coming, but our way of life and democracy is a sham filled illusion because nobody 'out there' can save us, not really, and having the bomb first and using it was great when you are in grade 8, but by grade 12 everybody sort of doesn't care if you are the cool kid anymore because they are all moving on.

    Its like deep down, even the haters some how secretly wanted Trump. You have believed in being braggarts for centuries, why not put the biggest one there?

    Ooorah.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soupman View Post
    I really cannot understand people that don't see how Trump is SEE at this point, the guy is a genius emotional manipulator. He doesn't think of facts, he's not interested in them at all.

    Both ILE and SLE actually understand and respect facts, they just present them subordinated to a point, they are logical types (logical doesn't necessarily mean reasonable - since ethical types are like that in real life). SEE and even IEE just aren't interested in facts, unless they complement their preconceived notions.
    You are not only making a caricature out of all 4 types, there are also wrong caricatures. If I have seen people taking liberties with the truth to suit their interests, it's ILEs and SLEs. They tend to twist the facts in order to establish their own rules.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    OK, when SEE goes senile he/she turns into SLE.




    Anyways, I heard an interview where one guy described Trump as very loving protective and trustworthy person. He saw him as some sort of personal protector. Probably a victim type.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    You are not only making a caricature out of all 4 types, there are also wrong caricatures. If I have seen people taking liberties with the truth to suit their interests, it's ILEs and SLEs. They tend to twist the facts in order to establish their own rules.
    Sorry but you are just playing unnecessary mental gymnastics at this point, why don't we see Einstein ignoring facts outright, or any other prominent ILE intellectual for that matter. And remembering that SLEs are Technocrats, means we should not be seeing outright disregard for logic in those types either.

    BTW there's a remarkable difference between lying and fudging facts, cleverly working with facts and misrepresenting them - always done in a realistic way, from a complete disregards for facts prioritizing emotionalism. Even when Einstein was treated with facts he didn't like, he ways came up with a perspective that undermined the points those same facts were trying to illustrate - for example he felt that data missing (which is reasonable and plausible) when failing to explain how quantum mechanics has facts which bizarrely contradicts his expected unified model of the universe. Not every ILE is Einstein of course, but the same thinking styles manifest itself at lower levels of intelligence in more common ILEs.

    You unfortunately inherited the MBTI bias were ESTP is assumed to be SLE, and built your socionics theory coupled with the quadra fetish (distorts understanding of real people) were you have the sociotype archetypes you have. Either way I'll say open up to multiple socionics theories, it becomes interesting to look at how a differing type label can affect the perspectives you get from observing the same person.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E91bGT9BjYk
    Last edited by Soupman; 07-12-2018 at 10:01 PM.

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