Last edited by Delilah; 07-29-2019 at 07:32 AM.
gulenko says its standard for people to shift toward their semi dual as they mature, so that could explain a lot. not saying you're base SEI, but that sol's SEI typing and your confusion (with ESI) might be a result of base IEE moving in that direction but not knowing entirely what to make of it. since learning to use more sensing and nevertheless being Fi and having holographic cognition might all seem like ESI traits etc
1. Are you dreaming about the future or focused on the present?
2. Are you more of a positivist or a negativistic?
3. Are you an Aggressor or a Care-receiver?
I've never heard of this theory of Gulenko. Well for me pretty much anything dynamic is quite foreign to be quite honest, and that includes Si.
In my most recent struggle with socionics (re: type) I basically narrowed it down to IEE and ESI, maybe because both are holographic.
For me Fe is also quite unusual, so like things like changing my own emotional state or the emotional state of others is really something that doesn't even cross my mind, nevermind act on it. So if i feel say down and out, i have no way of changing that inner emotional state or even the inner dynamics (Si). When someone else feels that way i usually in turn I just listen and don't try to mess with their inner state at all. I usually listen, ask a few questions, then listen some more and also feel very sorry that the other person is in a bad situation and empathize a lot (like i genuinely feel their misery and it even gets me personally down).
I guess the thing that is still elusive to me is rationality (maybe i'm a rational subtype?). I also have no doubt that i am a serious type (i seek the common sense, someone who can offer me cause-effect analysis even, the world as it is i try to see if i can approach it rather than merrily wish it away). Does this make sense?
Thanks for your thoughts btw, I really appreciate it.
I am not sure about #1, a bit of both. With #2 it is also a bit of both, though i try to be positive i rather suspect that is different from what the dichotomy means;
and regarding #3 I am feeling further away from aggressor.
I had thought that my Se is not that weak, yet i have to compare it with other types to know it. So i was thinking about this SEE that i used to be friends with, and she very much seeks fame and fortune lol silly as that sounds, like some version of glamour and high life and goes after it full heartily and by comparison i am not like that. So i feel like i like this SEE, yet i prefer to maintain my distance from her.
Does this shed any light on what you are looking to get at?
Oh, and in terms of being a care-receiver, I pretty much try to take care of myself. I live alone and don't depend on anyone and don't expect people to cater to me (though i wouldn't turn my nose to someone offering help or w/e out of their own kindness )
@squark, @Zero, @Avebury, @ashlesha, @FDG, @Tallmo, @Rebelondeck, @woofwoofl, @Raver, @Aramas, etc etc
C'mon folks, be heard on this very important life-altering decision!
nope. Not Ne.
My first instinct when I encountered your posts is that you were Delta. But that was random and probably just based on your username and style of your avatar and posts. I could be wrong. In your first post of the thread, you begin with "Comment please." That seems like a declaring attitude. Isn't EII declaring, or am I mistaken?
I think it’s really unlikely. You seem to have more of a down to earth “one on one” kind of temperament to you and interaction style with others on here, which is “sincere” and 4D Fi.
Are you good at evaluating people's potential and talents?
Edit: To answer my own question, I don't think you are into evaluating potential btw, you seem really "down to earth" and interacting in a one-on-one kinda way which doesn't seem IEE, like @niffer said, plus you describe people according to individual traits, which seems democratic rather than aristrocratic. Delta aristocracy is real easy to spot btw, it's always the "I'm one of those high class, educated, well mannered type folks", lol. Gamma is much more down to earth.
Last edited by Uncle Ave; 06-07-2018 at 12:22 PM.
only from your written voice you sound more esi maybe fi subtype to me. Also you seem more asking vs declaring. I have no idea about your lifestyle.
Do you change your mind at the last minute, is your career all over the place, do you often make things up as you go along, do you get excited when you see a pile of rubbish because of what could be in there, are you drawn to bums and loners and odd people because of what stories might be behind them, do you find it hard to know which bits to leave in and which to leave out when explaining something and often think later you should have added something crucial and then they would have understood, are you good at learning languages and being thrown in the deep end? Do you want to swish over the details and focus on the big picture? Is being neat rather than messy a huge effort? These are iee=ish things to me i guess.
Guillaine, I have an IEE-Ne sister-in-law and this describes her very, very well.
On the other hand, I know an IEE-Fi and she's a bit more organized. But it probably still mostly applies, since she works as a bookkeeper and I think she likes looking at receipts and imagining the stories behind them.
Did my description of IEE ring a bell? I've made quite a few comments on ESI and posted an uncovered profile so is anything applicable? I find it almost impossible to determine types in public forums because most have public faces, which aren't completely them. There's a saying: you are the only one who can determine who you really are.
I think he could be lured into something with an offer to take a short trip to some place he already likes. He's fantastic at organizing trips and has been all his life.
@Delilah I'm friends with an ESI-Fi, she's more interested in her own world and doesn't feel the need to expand outside of herself, she doesn't care about what people think of her except for her close ones when me even though I try to keep my cool but inside I feel like I'm all over the place, I'm a bit troubled (social anxiety, low self-confidence). She sometimes doesn't understand where people are coming from, we had many conversations when she had "bad" idea about someone's personality when I try to turn the table and correct her thoughts. She gives me the impression of a moralistic person from the greek mythology. When I think I have a more lighthearted attitude and tend to make people feel less judged.
people spend years trying to figure out not only what they are but what types are and its like lol I'm messy = IEE. its like gtfo you haven't even begun to ask the question. its reddit tier MBTI
But that would be 180 degrees turn from Ne PoLR to Ne ego. And from introvert to extrovert. I usually prefer making smaller steps. Maybe try EII or SEE.
yeah well first of all she initially typed as Ne ego, so lets not start with ESI as baseline
if we're taking small steps by your logic it would be "try ILE or EII" (kindred or mirror). I think EII is possible, but I will say that the one IEE I know continually entertains doubts and thinks she could be EII, so it would not be unusual to be an IEE thinking you could be EII. I think this sort of thing is continual because of the persistent socially outgoing meme determining extroversion. IEEs can be super introverted. sort of like how SLE Ti barely talks and is all shadowy in general. I would argue Fi subtype IEEs are going to be one of the most introverted appearing types of all. this idea that they're gregarious misunderstands how it manifests because second function is inner directed so, despite notions of "contact" as outgoing, which it isn't if the function is introverted its more "deliberative" and "intentional." Fi is also the sort of thing people don't see the work being done in 2 ways: 1) because its an introverted function, and 2) even when its used to make contact its generally in a individual not corporate setting by its very nature. the whole "Fe demonstrative" is the "shadow organization" that develops, in much the same way SLE creates his own structure behind the scenes. its power is only revealed when its too late so to speak, which means its uncompromising nature is in the groundwork it laid before the moment of truth was upon you. its not obvious Fe shenanigans. they're not ESE, despite persistent stereotypes to that effect
Last edited by Bertrand; 06-07-2018 at 07:09 PM.
So maybe start with what you are sure about? That would be certain Fi, or just F, but knowing it's Fi that would narrow down the type much better. So that would be only 4 types, ESI, SEE, IEE and EII. And if Fi is not certain, that would be also SEI, ESE, EIE and IEI. So now it would be good to narrow to Fi for sure, and then for Sensing / Intuition. Well, guessing between N and S is quite easy but sometimes sensing people think they are intuitive while they are not. But intuitive people usually know they are intuitive and not sensing. So it would be good to take few tests and see how you score on S/N and other dichotomies as well.
It's very hard to conlcude a type in one go. So that's why tests are very often useless. Once you have it narrowed to S/N and F/T then it should be easy by the method of elimination and by comparison.
You are choosing between quite opposite two types. When choosing between two types you should have two similar in 3 dichotomies not one. That's why I would go from start and try doing some tests.
I can recommend this test: https://www.16personalities.com/ this is the only test which scores me as ENTp. And the key to good result is to choose "I don't know" when even a bit unsure.
What is your relation to Ne and how do you understand it?
I would not say no to EII necessarily either.
It is quite hard from here to guess the type.
Measuring you right now
Winning is for losers
Last edited by Aramas; 06-07-2018 at 10:14 PM.
No idea what are these subtypes, they don't say this on the website it's probably in the paid section. Haven't read my description on this website either.
It's hard to me to match assertive / turbulent into socionics. The thing is that there are only two subtypes so it's single dichotomy.
Here is some article:
I would consider myself half-half.
As assertive, I would consider myself self-assured, even tempered and resistant to stress. However I push myself sometimes too hard. I don't think much about my past actions. I feel confident in my abilities to solve situations.
And as turbulent, I am not self-conscious and not sensitive to stress, do not experience lot of emotions but I am driven by success, I am perfectionist and eager to improve. I do not change job when stuck, I usually work hard to get out of it without changing jobs. I do not spend time thinking about my life.
So for myself this dichotomy is rubbish. It just doesn't fit me fully one or another and I can't clearly choose between these two.
And I have 20 years experience in stressful jobs to back it up, so when I say I am resilient to stress it means I am resilient to massive long term stress, and when I say I am willing to improve it means it took years to learn new things. And so on. So it's really mixed for me and not really clear.
also assertive or turbulent is generally an indicator of a generally positively or negatively affectively charged personality. it goes to the big 1 (high or low neuroticism) essentially. I don't think it directly correlates with socionics, although you might say it indicates an emphasis on whatever ego function is positively or negatively charged. so it could be contact or inert depending on base type. another way to think about it is if neuroticism is the blocking of the transcendent function, which is then filtered through base type, you could think of A or T as being an indication of overall general transcendent function, with T types having more negatively charged energy which is acumulating in order to generate the required charge to break through and resolve neuroses. in other words, personality when it runs into difficulties entails the transcendent function, i.e.: the self, failing to progress, being blocked by something, which is just another word for neuroses, which generates negative affect which is stored up in order to eventually break through the neuroses. indication of neuroses is indication of a disintegrated self and a high acumulation of negative affect. this is a form of self regulation and when neuroses gets bad enough to where it no longer ultimately serves to help but only hurts, would be like a system whose self regulation system has become unbalanced to the point of self injury. T is being more on that side of things, whereas A is more like a smoothly functioning system that gets what it wants without requiring significant negative charge to do so. its like another dimension on top of personality, which speaks to the self. to conflate it with assertiveness in the general sense is to reduce it down or subsume it back into the ego, as if it were an indicator of Fe or Se, when its more like A or T looks different in every type and is more an indicator of general health
Last edited by Bertrand; 06-08-2018 at 02:39 AM.
If I was forced to choose, I'd probably go with Fi-EII. I don't think you're as dominated by like an IEE would be, but I don't think you're PoLR either so Fi-EII looks like a happy middle ground. It's clear you're dominated by so Fi-ESI and Fi-IEE are not out of the question. Fi-SEE seems like a stretch based on your overall behavior so I would rule that out. I'd just go with Fi-EII based on gut impression, but if you self-typed yourself as Fi-ESI or Fi-IEE, I wouldn't really question it either because there is at least some basis behind it.
“We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand.” Randy Pausch
delilah seems extroverted if you look at her actual willingness to make threads compared to EIIs like subteigh and so forth. people think because shes polite in a Fi way it means Fi base, when its like the real Fi base (especially inert subtype) types are practically invisible. shes anything but inert, therefore if introverted base it would be some form of extroverted subtype. subteigh seems a good example of Fi inert, especially with enhanced sensing channel, likes to dump images with lots of symbolism and meaning, doesn't talk a lot, kind of runs off and pops up again but is mostly non verbal etc
[QUOTE=Bertrand;1277737]lol if you think belittling people isn't necessary to make headway you underestimate how intractable to reason but susceptible to humiliation people are around here. its literally the only way to get people to stop parroting bullshit most of the time. if you were aware of the development of the forums you'd see this to be true, but you're coming in naively off the cuff and assuming things about how what you're doing is going to work out. if you think your little chats with daisy and adam are headed in the right direction I can tell you you're wrong. eventually we'll get to the case by case but its not like you're the first person to derp into the forums thinking they already know it all when they effectively know absolutely nothing except how to establish some rapport with likewise agreeable but clueless people. it would be a mistake to think this substitutes for or indicates accuracy or knowledge in any way
Yeah, I do think it's not necessary because people are more important than socionics in my opinion, fine if you disagree. I am open to your arguments if they are put without denigrating others.
oh my god ESE confirmed I'm just going to run away now. suffice to say you and adam belong together in derp-land
You might not be ESI but I don't see IEE at all
You're more accepting and open compared to other ESIs I know
The other one is generally always in a good mood, modest and looks more organized. He looks more simple than the first guy and introverted. You only see his IEE side when you interact with him one on one. He's older than me, so he often gives me advices and talks about his experinces. I always feel like someone who's walking a similar path to him. We even have same life events happening to us, same reaction to them and thinking.