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Thread: Types and Disorders

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    Default Types and Disorders

    According Oldham descriptions, an specific personality disorder can be associated with each type.


    ESE: Masochistic Personality Disorder.

    SEI:Cyclothymic Personality Disorder.

    ILE:Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    LII:Schizotypal Personality Disorder.

    LSI: Depressive Personality Disorder.

    EIE: Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder.

    SLE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    IEI:Histrionic Personality Disorder.

    LIE:Sadistic Personality Disorder.

    ESI: Dependent Personality Disorder.

    SEE: Borderline Personality Disorder.

    ILI:Schizoid Personality Disorder.

    LSE: Passive Agressive Personality Disorder.

    SLI:Antisocial Personality Disorder.

    IEE: Paranoid Personality Disorder

    EII:Avoidant Personality Disorder.


    Obviously, the manifestation of the disorder would appear just and only in a pathological representation of the type.

    Knowing that, do you think its are accurate? Have you ever had some experience or met a type with one of these disorders? Share your thoughts and experiences.

    Full descriptions are in the link.
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    isn't it something like %20 of women in the US are on anti depressants or otherwise being treated for depression? are they LSI? if not what is the association? just a metaphor? signifying what? I guess I can see the associations but I think its weird cause its like what if Im x but thats associated with y type, what does that mean for the me or the association. I almost feel like you could shuffle these randomly and it would be just as valid. nevertheless personality disorder are aspects of personality taken to an unhealthy extreme, perhaps what they're saying is any personality in its pathological form gives rise to an associated set of symptoms. by relating them to types they're saying a pathological hypertrophy of x+y function leads to z symptoms. so too much Ti + Se is depression? is that right? perhaps... Te + Si passive aggressive? I guess I can see it, but these seem to be more specific statements on functional accents in a pathological mode rather than a base type or proclivity of a base type. so I think it is inflammatory to think of it that way--the better way being these are pathological functional accents roughly analogous to certain personality disorders. I doubt there is strong correlation between type and personality disorder. also depression is a mood disorder as far as I know anyway. the thing is how does the person take into account mood v personality etc

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    This is kind of forcefully fitted. Personal experiences.

    Aushra made first distinction between cyclothymes (irrationals) and schizotymes (ratonals).



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    Lovely LIE-ESI pair, a paranoid and a neurotic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    perhaps what they're saying is any personality in its pathological form gives rise to an associated set of symptoms.
    I think so.

    by relating them to types they're saying a pathological hypertrophy of x+y function leads to z symptoms. so too much Ti + Se is depression?
    I dont think the associations are made because of leading functions. It seems to go beyond that. Not sure exactly from where they come from in each case.

    I just can see where it comes from exactly in SLI (id block and PoLR), since its the only type I know in full detail for obvious reasons. However, in the rest of types, I've observed the propensity in such patterns in almost all types but nothing too drastic, just like hints. The origins of some are obvious to me, for example LIE from Se HA, ILI Fe PoLR, etc.

    Anyway the descriptions provides more detailed info. I suggest going there before rushing in veredicts. I was hoping some enlightened and knowledgeable ppl (at least knowledgeable in their own types) could tell me from where or from which functions or blocks the disorders are formed.

    Or at least share some of their own experiences.
    Last edited by Tommy; 05-18-2018 at 09:17 AM.

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    I had the following disorders(mild case) once in my life
    > histrionic
    > bpd
    > anti-social

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    I don't think it comes with types.. It depends on the person situation i guess.

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    @Olimpia is good example of pedantic-hyperthymic

    I have definitely seen ILI's who are pedantic OCD.


    I might say that I have affective-labile qualities but some online resources think it as being borderline which is not exactly me as I do not play relational games which is borderline thing (and hence it does not show in that sphere) . Either I don't really have huge anger outburst.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post


    I dont think the associations are made because of leading functions. It seems to go beyond that. Not sure exactly from where they come from in each case.

    I just can see where it comes from exactly in SLI (id block and PoLR), since its the only type I know in full detail for obvious reasons. However, in the rest of types, I've observed the propensity in such patterns in almost all types but nothing too drastic, just like hints. The origins of some are obvious to me, for example LIE from Se HA, ILI Fe PoLR, etc.
    this is what I'm trying to say: lets take 1) that its not just the ego functions, but rather a particular selection of functions and 2) any type can exhibit any one of these disorders. all that we're left with is a pathological accentuation of functional sets. for example if Fe polr along with Ti/Se is anti social, its not really SLI its just a pathological accent on those functions in any given individual (keeping in mind premise 2 which says no type or types have a monopoly on a disorder). in any case, maybe SLI gives it is characteristic "flavor" in its most straightforward manifestation and fair enough, but its kind of like saying SLI comes off as low grade anti social as baseline. which is actually I think true![1] so does it hold for all the types? I think it does! IEE does seem low level paranoid in my experience, like if they tend to swing one way pathologically I would say it is paranoid. In fact I had a IEE neighbor who I really liked but she was paranoid as fuck, and it was really sad, because it was Ne gone nuts. She had been abused so it wasn't like she didnt have good reason to be paranoid in some ways (she still texts me randomly sometimes saying she thinks x crazy shit about her neighbors--even though Im halfway across the country)... Its harder for me to see LIE as sadistic (I actually kind of think of LSI as sadistic), I would be interested to hear more about that, but on the whole I do see how many of these are just sort of tendencies arising out of certain functional prominence that when unhealthy form certain patterns

    its interesting I can see LSI ILI SLI and SEI all as proclivities in myself


    ILE:Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder
    this also makes me think of falsehope and some of the stuff he posts




    [1] so another way to get at what this list is doing is say, when meaning to call someone anti social, "you're acting like an unhealthy SLI right now." on the level of meaning, that is what this at least seems to represent. When we call someone paranoid, "you're acting like an unhealthy IEE." I think this fits very well with my experience, assuming we're keeping it general, obviously not particular SLI but rather a generalization of the SLI concept, etc.
    Last edited by Bertrand; 05-18-2018 at 10:18 AM.

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    I like Oldham list, it's the best part of those descriptions to me. Pity that Troll's list doesn't have all the pathologies...

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    I can identify myself with having Psychasthenia, at least in my life between 10 and 30 years of age, sadly.
    I wanted to analyze and understand everything.
    Now I'm more mature and I know there are aspects in life that don't need much of thinking.
    Thinking can lock yourself in your own prision of logical restraints... and it's not a positive thing if you overdo it, so far I can tell.
    Last edited by WinnieW; 05-18-2018 at 01:11 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    I think so.



    I dont think the associations are made because of leading functions. It seems to go beyond that. Not sure exactly from where they come from in each case.

    I just can see where it comes from exactly in SLI (id block and PoLR), since its the only type I know in full detail for obvious reasons. However, in the rest of types, I've observed the propensity in such patterns in almost all types but nothing too drastic, just like hints. The origins of some are obvious to me, for example LIE from Se HA, ILI Fe PoLR, etc.

    Anyway the descriptions provides more detailed info. I suggest going there before rushing in veredicts. I was hoping some enlightened and knowledgeable ppl (at least knowledgeable in their own types) could tell me from where or from which functions or blocks the disorders are formed.

    Or at least share some of their own experiences.
    The serious style given for LSI, with basic pleasure/fear centered around duty and responsibility comes from Ti/Fe/Se in the LSI imo. I see a lot of overlap of the Serious type with Enneagram Type 1 though as well, both the serious Oldham type and Type 1 being ultra-conscientious . . . you could also say ultra-rational. Self-criticism is also high in both the serious type and E1, and it's that self-criticism that can lead to depression when unhealthy. Where the Oldham style and socionics overlap for LSI would be in Ti with Se, plus their relationship to Fe/Fi . . . rationality, weak ethical fxns, and self-accountability are the traits that are most emphasized. That "sense of duty" is how TiFe is expressed in many LSIs. (It's where the idea of them being very rule-focused comes from, but that's a bit of a misunderstanding imo)

    Edit: And it's weird, just read the EIE description - that one has even more of what people see as the typical traits of the E1 and even describes them as ultra-conscientious, but it's missing the core component of self-criticism... so it looks like a caricature, really unbalanced, kind of frantic. And idk what that's all about. And the LIE aggressive type sounds like an evil E8 that's gone off the deep end. . .
    Last edited by squark; 05-18-2018 at 02:06 PM.

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    Well, I think these disorders are weakly linked to types. So, particular type while being healthy can act as some people with particular disorder and that's their normal behaviour. But, it's not so strong to say they have disorder, they just act similarly because of their personality.
    Another thing is, that one could conclude that these types can develop strong disorder matching their type. I don't think it is true, and I don't see the reason why because they just behave similarly to people with such disease, but they are completely healthy. So if they are healthy, why they should actually develop it further in that particular direction?
    I think that personality disorders are not matching people types in most cases. There can be cases when they develop it according to their type but that would be statistically insignificant.
    But I see some connections like being histrionic and being Fi, like IEE and SEE.
    Last edited by falsehope; 05-18-2018 at 04:32 PM.

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    hypotethicly higher inclination

    > ESE: Masochistic Personality Disorder

    Ni types

    > SEI:Cyclothymic Personality Disorder.

    any P-F

    > ILE:Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    weak nonvalued Ne, as they are inadequate in self-image and stubborn to get this
    Narcissistic Personality Disorder, doubtfully to do variations if it

    > LII:Schizotypal Personality Disorder.

    introversion

    > LSI: Depressive Personality Disorder.

    overload in nonvalued regions. also it's doubtful as a personal disorder.

    > EIE: Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder.

    T types

    > SLE: Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    check above

    > IEI:Histrionic Personality Disorder.

    F types

    > LIE:Sadistic Personality Disorder.

    Se types

    > ESI: Dependent Personality Disorder

    F-I types

    > SEE: Borderline Personality Disorder

    P-F

    > ILI:Schizoid Personality Disorder

    check schizotypal

    > LSE: Passive Agressive Personality Disorder

    introverts

    > SLI:Antisocial Personality Disorder

    P

    > IEE: Paranoid Personality Disorder

    Se ego

    > EII:Avoidant Personality Disorder

    introversion

    > Obviously, the manifestation of the disorder would appear just and only in a pathological representation of the type.

    obviously there are no "pathological representation of the types" in the classical theory. by Jung they all are the pathology. with the individual difference in the degree of functional disbalance.
    there is no basis to suppose those disorders are strictly linked with Jung's types. we may think that a type rises the chance to get some kind of PD
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    I can identify myself with having Psychasthenia, at least in my life between 10 and 30 years of age, sadly. I wanted to analyze and understand everything.
    Ditto for me

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    hmm.. ILE is for example supposed to deprecate past achievements which is very non compensatory narc stuff. I remember when someone nearly got a stroke when saw my diplomas which were lying around in total potentially destructive disorder.

    According to Millon this won't happen with narcs. I hate writing CV's and applications. Sometimes I just want to write: "I'm piece of shit and you might be as well but I don't know yet."

    Something that made me think of this being possible was that I don't feed back and forth narc feedback loop as I have bad habit of not accepting compliments and tend to deprecate those.
    Last edited by Comatose Lamiac 007; 08-19-2019 at 06:25 AM.
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    My take:

    Avoidant:
    EII

    Borderline:
    SEE

    Dependant:
    SEI, ESE

    Hystrionic:
    EIE, IEE

    Narcissistic:
    LIE, ILE

    Obsessive-compulsive:
    LSI, LSE

    Paranoid:
    ESI

    Schizoid: LII

    Schizotypal: ILI, IEI

    Sociopathic: SLE, SLI

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    All the TIMs are disorders/diagnoses in themselves, it's why people pay big bucks to book a psychologist who knows about Socionics, and essentially have this psychologist pick their brain. It's similar to talking to a psych and then receiving a mental diagnosis.


    Idiosyncratic > Mercurial > Aggressive

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    OCD is not only manifested in compulsive behaviors: most often (and yet it is way under-diagnosed and not well-known!), it is here in mostly (or only) obsessive, intrusive thoughts (also known as 'pure O'). OCD as such can make you paradoxically pretty inactive and unable to move, frozen in time, rechecking to thoughts again and again, themes flowing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsess...lsive_disorder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primar...lsive_disorder https://www.madeofmillions.com/artic...wn-form-of-ocd

    'OCD without overt compulsions could, by one estimate, characterize as many as 50 percent to 60 percent of OCD cases'

    Mind it OCD is not OCPD, or, that often it is not about personality (like OCPD is: the strict person obsessed with rules and order, perfectionism - this is all OCPD). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsess...ality_disorder

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    I think based on Gulenko's description ILE screams schizotypal/idiosyncratic.

    Inventive LIE.

    Schizoid is SLI or ILI.


    Fe type is histrionic.
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    I used to think I have Avoidant personality disorder (AvPD), but the psychologist I went to 3 times said I was within normal range of functioning for everything and AvPD was not something I had due to how fast I opened up 1 to 1 with her and how easy it was to communicate with me :/

    Later on I met someone with AvPD irl... the guy would freeze in public, his anxiety lvl ran that high. Communicating with him was like pulling nails. So yeah.

    Other option might be Paranoid Personality disorder, but considering I'm not even into conspiracies e_e.. its probably not a thing.

    I seem to have some residual features of past trauma tho, such as minor social anxiety and having an avoidant attachment style.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I used to think I have Avoidant personality disorder (AvPD), but the psychologist I went to 3 times said I was within normal range of functioning for everything and AvPD was not something I had due to how fast I opened up 1 to 1 with her and how easy it was to communicate with me :/

    Later on I met someone with AvPD irl... the guy would freeze in public, his anxiety lvl ran that high. Communicating with him was like pulling nails. So yeah.

    Other option might be Paranoid Personality disorder, but considering I'm not even into conspiracies e_e.. its probably not a thing.

    I seem to have some residual features of past trauma tho, such as minor social anxiety and having an avoidant attachment style.
    Yeah about that conspiracy thing for paranoid and weird cults for schizotypal are not probably a thing. Those are supposed to be personality constructs you are born with it. Innately paranoid personality would not trust in conspiracies (they are just suspcious) and schizotypal would have his/her own philosophy. So at one point when taken to extreme one could consider those as disorders. Personality is not something you can catch like a flu or schizophrenia etc. I recommend Theodore Millon's book. It is free online.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homicidal Maniac 007 View Post
    Yeah about that conspiracy thing for paranoid and weird cults for schizotypal are not probably a thing. Those are supposed to be personality constructs you are born with it. Innately paranoid personality would not trust in conspiracies (they are just suspcious) and schizotypal would have his/her own philosophy. So at one point when taken to extreme one could consider those as disorders. Personality is not something you can catch like a flu or schizophrenia etc. I recommend Theodore Millon's book. It is free online.
    I don't seem to have any other features of PPD tho..

    Its possible I don't have any personality disorder, but I'm open to the possibility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I don't seem to have any other features of PPD tho..

    Its possible I don't have any personality disorder, but I'm open to the possibility.

    Just my 2 cents...

    I highly doubt that you have a personality disorder...that shit permeates your relatability to other people. It wouldn't surprise me if you fit in the normal range of an introverted thinking (IXTX) male with just an undercurrent of some anxiety (generalized and/or social). Personality disorders are the extreme manifestation of disordered behavioral patterns and thought processes.

    ...unless you go on paranoid rants regularly IRL and think people/things are consistently after you...and present way differently IRL than on here. It's really about how severe it is and how much it negatively impacts your overall functioning, relationships, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I don't seem to have any other features of PPD tho..

    Its possible I don't have any personality disorder, but I'm open to the possibility.
    I think every person has a personality style. When it becomes adisorder is another matter. So you are probably not one. MB paranoid style.
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    I would guess the LII and ILI disorders should be switched.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    I would guess the LII and ILI disorders should be switched.
    In original or 7's post?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    In original or 7's post?
    In the original. The paranoia/emphasis on patterns of schizotypals seems more typical of Ni types; LIIs more frequently I think just entirely block themselves off from the world and emotion. ILIs might find meaning in unconventional places, but LIIs might not even understand the concept of finding “meaning” to begin with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post
    In the original. The paranoia/emphasis on patterns of schizotypals seems more typical of Ni types; LIIs more frequently I think just entirely block themselves off from the world and emotion. ILIs might find meaning in unconventional places, but LIIs might not even understand the concept of finding “meaning” to begin with.
    You should actually see how Millon describes schizotypal. It is extremely dysfunctional Ne type. He has couple of case studies in his book. It is not Ni. I think IEI would fit dependent personality style bill easily.

    Extreme versions:
    Schizotypy/Ne- impulsive non comfomity towards traditions. Antisocial/Se impulsive non conformity towards lawful life.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

    Your life is too short to actually do anything useful with it without being wasteful.

  30. #30
    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    My disorders are that I don’t like to shop for clothing and stuff. I don’t like or don’t have enough energy for a lot of work. I need some kind of structure and I have to do things in order and don’t like being distracted during work
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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