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Thread: Your experiences working with ILEs/ENTps

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    Delilah's Avatar
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    Default Your experiences working with ILEs/ENTps

    I'm curious about this too, recent changes in situation and all. Kindly share whatever you can.

    I find them unreliable so far.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Haikus niffer's Avatar
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    Sometimes frustrating, e.g. when their diaper overflows, but for me it feels more like playing than real work at all most of the time.

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Troll Nr 007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not Albert Einstein
    Everybody is a Genius. But If You Judge a Fish by Its Ability to Climb a Tree, It Will Live Its Whole Life Believing that It is Stupid
    They won't follow. They divert and do it other way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    My work experience has been largely negative when they were in management/supervisory positions although most all were rather charming, intelligent personalities. ILEs listen a lot but often hear little; rather than communicate, they prefer to lecture to agreeable audiences. They leave most things until the last moment except for the feathering of their own nests; ILEs will try to conscript others to help them to resolve the panics that were created by their own procrastination. They avoid accountability so rarely set specific objectives for themselves although they'll pile them on others; they readily blame others or their situation for any failures and will be merciless to protect themselves. They can be excellent advisors and researchers but first, their feet must be nailed to the floor......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    My work experience has been largely negative when they were in management/supervisory positions although most all were rather charming, intelligent personalities. ILEs listen a lot but often hear little; rather than communicate, they prefer to lecture to agreeable audiences. They leave most things until the last moment except for the feathering of their own nests; ILEs will try to conscript others to help them to resolve the panics that were created by their own procrastination. They avoid accountability so rarely set specific objectives for themselves although they'll pile them on others; they readily blame others or their situation for any failures and will be merciless to protect themselves. They can be excellent advisors and researchers but first, their feet must be nailed to the floor......

    a.k.a. I/O
    This pretty much says it all, but is a more optimistic take on things than I have.

    I should add that they actually can be brilliant researchers, but they don't seem to make good managers for the reasons @Rebelondeck mentioned.
    Good managers accept all that goes wrong as their own responsibility and attribute everything that goes right to their people. ILE's seem to have this reversed. This might be due to their eternally youthful orientation. As is their inventiveness.

    When paired with an SEI, they throw the best parties.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 03-29-2018 at 02:17 PM.

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    I’ve been in leadership since 1999 and have learned important lessons. Staff have told me I’m the best boss they’ve ever had. I believe them - my staff always goes overboard on Boss Day too.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Adam Strange's Avatar
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    @Blaze, how would you describe your staff?

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    falsehope's Avatar
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    How the specific relationship would turn out depends on many factors. It's safe to assume, that if you would be in closer relationship with ILE that would have cause issues. If it would be more distant, this could work pretty much well.

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    Who freaking lunatic wants to control people? Executive dysfunctuon resides inside everyone's own brain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I donít care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.

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    Anyways ILE's are emergency situation managers. Tight spot and no time. Then it comes time to gather resources and distribute. (Not for profession, though)
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
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    I been working with one and it made the experience special, friendly and helpful. I do not know how it is to work with one at an extended period of time.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    ILEs are the best. I have very good experience working with them. (as predicted by THE THEORY)

    ILE Woman, 20-something (N subtype)
    We were working in gardening. The boss paired us and we drove to different places in town to plant bushes etc. In the beginning she was shy but then we got a really pleasant chemistry. At one point I didn't find the right destination on the car navigator and we got lost in some odd part of town. We both enjoyed the uncertainty, it's hard to describe but just to be together in the unknown and continuing driving until we got to the right place, without any worrying. Not everyone can enjoy that like we did.

    The next days I noticed she made some arrangements to be with me again, and we worked together again. I just thought work had never been this good. It was like a vacation. We did what we were supposed to do, but it didn't feel like work.

    We talked about insignificant Si stuff, like I mentioned that it would be good to bring a coffee pan so we could make coffee when we were out working. It was just a half joke, but then she actually mentioned it again, like she was expecting me to actually do it. We shared music that we listened to, and I brought her some sheet music for the guitar (she was practicing and I also play). She liked that very much.

    We worked together for about 2 weeks, and then work ended. I still miss her

    ILE woman, 60-something (D subtype)
    She hired me to do a stone pavement in her garden (this was a good opportunity for me). She was quite demanding but also flexible. She made arrangements that helped me with the work (as ILEs often do). She was an E8.

    ILE man, 40-something (N subtype)
    I was doing training as a house painter. He is an experienced handyman. I got on his team and we painted apartments, fixed windows etc. He could be nervous and moody. We continued working for 3-4 months. Most of the time we didn't have that much to say to each other, and he was often irritated. But he helped me a lot with advice and contacts as I was trying to get into this field of work. He was often nervous and irritated and could make critical comments, but somehow it was not that bad. Because he was also understanding at the same time. He considered lunch and coffee very important and our best moments we had when we had to work late and we took a break in the late afternoon with coffee and cake and then continued the work. That was a special moment. He is obviously not in his ideal field of work, so that might influence his behaviour. We still keep in touch occasionally. What I especially noticed with him was Te demonstrative, as he could be very " now we just do this and that and then nothing more and then we're done and we're outta here"
    Last edited by Tallmo; 03-29-2018 at 08:12 PM.

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    a two horned unicorn renegade Troll Nr 007's Avatar
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    I remember when I did labwork with someone we had under three hours time to complete 4 hour exercise.

    I took over the computer told pair exactly what to do made few non standard tricks with computer while we constantly continued with measurments.

    As matter of fact we finished that exercise just in time. I have lots of similar experiences working with people. When it is a tight spot I tend to somehow pull it off. My timing and synchronisation is pretty good in those situations. Otherwise...
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
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    I don't find that ILEs are unreliable, that seems to be a stereotype.

    Adam has something of a point. They are good at coming up with plans for the future but in leadership positions they have problems dealing with all the people management and practical details of what they want to do.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    yeah ILEs are often reliable. That's because of Fi polr. They have already thought what's right and how to act morally right.

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    My trainer/mentor in my most recent job was ILE; I'll try to describe him briefly:

    - Not sure what exactly you mean by reliability; this guy was pretty handy to have around. He was, however, visibly annoyed at requests for help, and did have a tendency to keep scores. If I offered him help, he'd be much more receptive to my requests later.
    -He introducted himself to me with these words: "I am rude, crude, and sarcastic." I found him to be irreverent and occasionally rude (maybe once or twice when he called someone "useless" in a pretty loud, mocking way), but other than that not really malicious or hurtful.
    -Acted like he didn't care what others thought/felt about him, but was pretty receptive to those who told him how much they liked him
    -Was pretty dissatisfied with current managers as he was not allowed to innovate work procedures as much as he wanted
    -Always ready to debate or create upheaval, a shit-disturber
    -Very averse to anyone Fi-ing him.
    -When training he would explain things very well (clearly) and then if the test being conducted wasn't safety-critical he'd tell me to play with it, and then he'd leave the room. A while later he came back and asked me if I was dead.
    -He was very good at working with unexpected situations, and it definitely looked looked he enjoyed doing it. When he managed to harness it he used to say "goddammit I'm awesome"
    -He had a cabinet in his desk filled up with candy and smuggled a mini fridge under his desk (we all pretended we didn't know since food's not allowed in the lab)
    Last edited by Rei; 03-29-2018 at 08:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    yeah ILEs are often reliable
    P types break promises easily. I saw this from ILE a lot.

    > That's because of Fi polr. They have already thought what's right and how to act morally right.

    people avoid to care enough about polr region and often do it not good when try
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    yeah ILEs are often reliable. That's because of Fi polr. They have already thought what's right and how to act morally right.
    More like they have Se role so they are capable of staying on top of their responsibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
    I’ve been in leadership since 1999 and have learned important lessons. Staff have told me I’m the best boss they’ve ever had. I believe them - my staff always goes overboard on Boss Day too.
    Blaze is back, awesome.

    I'd be happy if you shared a little bit about your philosophy in working with others.

    I also don't doubt your experience. Do you think i might have just come across a rotten ILE? What about your experience working with ILEs? cheers
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Delilah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    yeah ILEs are often reliable. That's because of Fi polr. They have already thought what's right and how to act morally right.
    I think the point of Fi polr is that they haven't already thought of what is right for for instance to have already have thought of it they would have had to already have encountered every instance that requires the judgement application.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    I think the point of Fi polr is that they haven't already thought of what is right for for instance to have already have thought of it they would have had to already have encountered every instance that requires the judgement application.
    Right. What @Tallmo is describing should be the effect of Normative Fe instead.

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    I think it is preferable to universally apply logic than to dwell on details. If condition applies everywhere then there should be no exceptions.

    Like people should be free -> open prison doors etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
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    Bertrand's Avatar
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    the consequence of that is just to get people to admit they don't actually want absolute freedom, which is true and probably good to point out, but I don't think people really live under that delusion. everyone pretty much knows when people say stuff like "freedom is good" they mean relatively good but not absolutely good, since absolute freedom was the jungle we left when we formed society. so it becomes a semantic quibble

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    More like they have Se role so they are capable of staying on top of their responsibilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    I think the point of Fi polr is that they haven't already thought of what is right for for instance to have already have thought of it they would have had to already have encountered every instance that requires the judgement application.
    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Right. What @Tallmo is describing should be the effect of Normative Fe instead.
    Fi polr makes them use broad ideas and "moral philosophy" to deal with stuff. It's not Fi use, even though it might seem like it. They compensate by strong functions. Moral stuff has to be thought out and understood.

    ILEs can be very "Fi oriented" thematically speaking. But it's not functional use. It's actually the opposite, avoiding hurting the polr.

    That way they can be reliable because there is general thinking behind the moral decisions, not Fi evaluations on a single case.

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    is that like when people like richard dawkins talk about morality

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    is that like when people like richard dawkins talk about morality
    oh yes, and he is in fact ILE

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    I'm not an effective manager at all. I see myself and my inferiors as more or less equals. I would rather have fun or relax than be productive and I don't like to exert authority. I also fight strongly against being told what to do myself.

    I have an ILE employee as well. He is kinda weird. He likes to come up to every single employee and say "Hi" several times a day. He thinks it's hilarious. He also likes to loudly point out when people are even one minute late. He asks a lot of questions that clearly have no answers. He has expressed interest in promotion but most people I've spoken to think that idea is laughable. I have had serious conversations with him that make me think he would be an okay manager, at least as good as me. So not great, but he's not retarded. Just weird.
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    idontgiveaf's Avatar
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    They are more funnier than controlling

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    Can get all the work done in one big swoop, but gets very bored with routine, repetitive tasks, handles various tasks simultaneously, tries finding new ways to make everything easier, will solve many different types of problems at work, tends to be adaptable and friendly with everyone

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    All the ILEs I've worked with so far have fucked up and been fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ouronis View Post
    All the ILEs I've worked with so far have fucked up and been fired.
    But having a new job every few days is the goal of Ne.

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    I work in the wonderful world of retail which, I feel, doesn't naturally caters to the strengths of ILEs. I've also only worked with a few ILEs. They tend to get the reputation of not being very competent when it comes to the fast paced portion of work. Two were quite messy with their work area. One guy who worked as an overnight stocker for the deli, sausage, and bacon wall simply didn't give a fuck. The bins were often a mess after his shift which irritated my, then, department manager and co-workers as well as the LSE who also worked with the ILE who always went above and beyond to keep the bins in the cooler rotated, consolidated, and as neat as can be.

    The ILE who I sometimes work with now (3rd shift front end) has a tendency to talk a lot but not get much done. She is also transitioning from male to female and often complains about the body changes due to estrogen. I can't blame her, though.

    I find the older and more mature ILEs to be a lot more competent. The first shift maintenance supervisor is an elderly ILE gentleman. He's a redneck type of guy and knows his shit. He's lived long and knows a thing or two.

    Overall, I personally don't mind working with ILEs, even the ones who lack productivity. We usually have interesting conversations and most of them can be downright hilarious. Diarrhea of the mouth can become a bit much after a while. There are exceptions, of course. Maybe the quieter ILEs simply go by more without notice.
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    yay @aixelsyd is back. <3

    Yea my ILE real life friend gets these constant petty ethical violations at work. And he does tend to have diarrhea of the mouth as well. He is a good guy though/gives to the homeless and has compassion, just his Fi polr causes him problems with some of the Deltas and Gammas at his work. He's incredibly funny and his Te demonstrative is very relaxing to me. I just wish he would chill sometimes, but then again he says I'm too introverted and self-contained.

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