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Thread: LIE-SEI conflict reactions (ENTj and ISFp)

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Conversation between an LIE and an SEI:

    LIE: Do you have this week’s results for your project? It is already late and we need to move on this right away.
    SEI: I spent all week doing simulations, but I couldn’t get the code to work.
    LIE: So you have no results at all?
    SEI: ....
    LIE: Jeff, this project is critical. We need your results to show the customer. If you are having problems with the code, you should just let me know right away. We can get someone to help you help with it.
    SEI: .....
    SEI: .....
    LIE: Jeff?
    SEI: ...Uh, you talking to me?
    I know this post is old, but I was flipping through this thread. This sounds like my SEI friend from college Adam. Anytime he seems to want to get out of a question he just acts confused & says "huh?" or "what?". He'll even do it over text. I'm like re read it. How do you not hear over text? Lol Do all SEIs use this same strategy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Hmmm... I used to have friends and I actually was active in this part of life as a kid. I just came to realization that I was doing it for others and I was putting up a happy face. These things get too complex to handle when you start to think it in terms of other's subconscious perception - the thing we as social beings adjust towards while being slaves to our instincts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Conflict rel is balance of terror. The distance is adjusted so no open conflict occurs.

    I have a LIE friend. Its always great to meet him but we dont meet very often
    omg, that is exactly how I describe it...terror when a SEI is in the same room as I am. I just get quiet and try to leave so that the danger-danger warning light in my mind can stop. And they're often perfectly pleasant. I just extrapolate a bad moon rising if I continue around them, unless maybe there's a special circumstance. Pink canary and I can get along for quite a while in video chat if there are other people there. I think many SEI are endearing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wasp View Post
    repost but I mean...

    This is abuse...this isn't a mutually healthy SEI-LIE interaction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    LIE's lack the eager, puppy dog, child-like innocence of ILE's. SEI's normally know what they like. They are looking for innocent, precocious children, not jaded grim-dark adults.

    I was watching the SEI size me up, trying to figure out what it was about me that she didn't like. Expensive black leather shoes, grey wool slacks, white cotton shirt, expensive jacket, each one examined and no flaw was found but she knew how she felt. I'm pretty sure she had a long talk with the ILE after I left.

    At least one of my exes seems to be a SEI. He did not seem to like my being an emotivist. I am playful. A lot of LIE are, probably especially the Ni subtypes and the enneagram 7s and 6s and maybe the 3s. I've found I enjoy boosting the mood and being chipper with people I feel I can be. I do use a smidge of childlike in my interactions, but I also have a HEAPING amount of seriousness compared with Alphas.


    ILE are constructivists; LIE are emotivists:

    Constructivist
    Tend to minimize the emotional elements of interaction, preferring to focus on the 'business' elements.
    Have emotional 'anchors' (eg, books, films, places) which they use to support their internal emotional state.
    Can become 'emotionally hooked', and can have a strong reaction to a particular part or section regardless of their feelings towards the entirety.
    Have greater difficulty disassociating from others' emotions and experiences than from requests for action or consideration.
    “I prefer when people offer concrete solutions instead of comfort or sympathy.”

    Emotivist
    Tend to concentrate foremost on the emotional background of interaction, with 'business' a secondary concern.
    Prefer the new and novel over the old and known.
    Information perceived as unprofessional or low-quality can leave them indifferent.
    Have greater difficulty disassociating from requests for action or consideration than from others' emotions and experiences.
    “If a conversation is emotionally negative, I consider it wasted.”



    It's one of the most notable differences between my ILI best friend and myself. We're both serious gamma NTs, but..

    tangents: OOOH...also my LSI buds and I are def on that same wavelength, and I can sense it in my IEI bestie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Hmm, imo you are doing much better in the thinking department than a lot of LIEs, at the very least you try to consider all points of view and think things through. I have rather high standards for myself and others (being melancholic), so consider this a compliment.

    With LIEs my problem usually is that their arguments / projects seem like they haven't been properly thought through, as if they run on bad information or lack information and fail at being pragmatic / realistic about how things are & what is actually possible.. ie I find fault with their thinking / decision-making process. In comparison my only problem with an SLEs thinking process is that they seem rash / impulsive, but we are usually on the same page despite that & I can respect them. Not the case with LIE.. idk why. My default is to excessively think things through, I'm very careful & deliberate making sure I don't miss anything. Maybe its that and LIE's thinking seems sloppy and superficial by comparison.

    Its weird tho. Every person I antagonize ends up being someone who types LIE lmao.
    Honestly, I often find you very easy to relate to and enjoy you being a part of the forum. I'm not saying it's a two-way experience.

    And a lot of my closest friends have been LSI and SLE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Where one type is stronger than other type. For example, SEI may recommend a better recipe or clothes choice (Si) or what thinks as more decent behavior in a situation (Fe).
    The familiar ESI criticised how rude I treated some people (Fi).
    Most of the disapproval I get from SEIs or at least Si valuers in general has been about their standards for clothing or makeup or behavior....Many express horrification at my choices. And some intimate I'll never be loved and will be shunned.

    I think of a lot of that stuff functionally. Yes, I might not have my hair mermaid plaited and my face contoured, but I have short shorts on under my sparkly cocktail dress (easier to dance dramatically and however I want to when the mood hits me) and a friendly straightforwardness, and I end up dancing with more people than they do in the club, so...I'm not getting held back by not conforming.

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    I have interacted with LIE romantically for a short period of time. We both have sort of a don't give a fuck attitude and mess around a lot. But we had nothing in common except maybe a love for money, our cats, and sexual compatibleness. It was like we were sort of using each other for a thrill, and then it quickly ended. This was a very informal interaction with LIE though being just friendly.

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    I don't think that all SEIs and LIEs necessarily conflict. I'm LIE-Te and I worked with an SEI-Si and she hated the space I occupied, but I get along very well with an SEI-Fe.

    I was wandering through YouTube's Suggestion Algorithm and I came across this clip:



    I don't watch movies or television or cable and so I've never seen these characters before, but I'd bet money that Flash is played by an LIE-Te and Supergirl is played by an SEI-Fe because, by god, this is exactly, down to tiny details, how my interaction with the SEI-Fe goes. Even the mutual admiration while knowing that we aren't meant for each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    I don't think that all SEIs and LIEs necessarily conflict......
    I don't think so either. Conflict only seems to happen when one attempts to force the other down a different path and the urge to do so (or to criticise) is usually great. If both can continue to steer in their respective wheelhouses then they coexist quite peaceably; however, any attempts at backseat driving by one will usually irritate the other immensely.

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebelondeck View Post
    I don't think so either. Conflict only seems to happen when one attempts to force the other down a different path and the urge to do so (or to criticise) is usually great. If both can continue to steer in their respective wheelhouses then they coexist quite peaceably; however, any attempts at backseat driving by one will usually irritate the other immensely.

    a.k.a. I/O
    I agree with this 100%. I think a lot of LIE's are cool and I have a close friend that is one. As friends, it's great! But, We have both mentioned to each other that if we were ever in a relationship, it would be DISASTROUS! I think it would be the same in a working relations too. We would end up forcing each other down a different path and it would not be pretty. My Te and Ni is shit and I can't wrap my head around that stuff to save my life. Anything related to that, I throw to her and vice versa. It keeps the peace and blind spots are covered from being hit by the enemy.

    I really do respect LIE's. I am often really amazed of what they can do and accomplish. They are my blind spots that I will never see coming and will K.O in a Te and Ni battle. I just know I will never be able to understand or truly provide what they need at a deep core. The best I can do is just cover their blind spots (or Polr) when the time comes. It's kinda like a swimmer respecting a football player in a way. Both are athletes and understand the skill, time, and effort both need to master their craft. A swimmer will never be a good footballer player and vice versa. They need different things and different training. However, both can help with different aspects of nutrition and possibly improving different muscle groups based on personal expertise. Both can also cheer each other on for their own trophy.

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    I would say my brother can be mean to my mom, although he has recently softened
    as a kid he could be mean to me too, trying to physically hurt me and when he got emotional it sounded really bad, he would scream at the door and I was scared/upset so I would try to hide in my room or bathroom
    he doesn’t remember any of this. He used to claim no one “loved him” and although I have avoidant style attachment with my family, the rest of my family is normally attached. Anyways, he still turned out securely attached

    anyways I’m scared of him attacking my se PoLR, which I’m sure is exactly what he would have done had I asked him to be kinder to her (because she ignores his logic and that really puts him on edge)


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    I’m watching Mad Men and there’s a funny interaction between an LIE and SEI.

    They’re at a funeral and there’s a pretty lady..

    LIE Harry: “God she is all kinds of trouble isn’t she.”

    SEI Pete: ‘Everything turns you on, doesn’t it’ pulling a face..(I find this funny coming from an SEI lol)

    LSI in the background to Pete: ‘is your mother still alive’..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I’m watching Mad Men and there’s a funny interaction between an LIE and SEI.

    They’re at a funeral and there’s a pretty lady..

    LIE Harry: “God she is all kinds of trouble isn’t she.”

    SEI Pete: ‘Everything turns you on, doesn’t it’ pulling a face..(I find this funny coming from an SEI lol)

    LSI in the background to Pete: ‘is your mother still alive’..
    Almost everything I say to an SEI gets taken the wrong way. An ILE whom I work with invited me to his house to see his basement lab, and introduced me to his SEI wife. I said to her, "Nice to meet you." I noticed that they had a family photo on the wall, so I said "What a great photo! That kid looks smart as hell."

    I'm pretty sure, based on the way she was looking at me when I left, that she didn't like me but didn't know why.

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    @Adam Strange yeah they have their quirks- some are very odd and often they're my favourites . I was at my ILE friend's gig recently and I was feeling a bit low on energy so I wasn't talking to people. I watched his SEI gf move around and say quick a hello to everyone, not wanting to get stuck with anyone for too long unless she 100% felt comfortable. Later on, she spoke to me for ages which was really nice, and it was the first time I felt like she actually liked me. It turns out I can be really quiet, and they actually quite like that lol. My other SEI friend is E5 and she's really smart..but she misunderstands me more than I misunderstand her. We have good conversations about people and why they are the way they are. She has a better general understanding of what motivates people than me. But she's never really understood me, probably because I hid a lot from her, but also because she can't seem to analyse me in the moment very well. It's nice I can be more open with her now.

    I remember talking to my male SEI colleague about our LIE colleague who I couldn't figure out. He would say 'she's just a nerd, she just wants to be nerdy and talk about everything lol'. Maybe he understands her better than he understands me. I'll never understand why this person (the SEI) just didn't say 'sorry' after leading me on and then also making a complaint about me at work. I guess it grew into something too huge and overwhelming.. even if he feels sorrow he couldn't see that I was feeling it so much more. But yeah we had a lot of misunderstandings..that spiralled and spiralled. I'd go home thinking 'how can I set things right'..but it should have been him doing that lol. Sometimes the misunderstandings were so slight.. so I think it was easy to slip into more and more..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Almost everything I say to an SEI gets taken the wrong way. An ILE whom I work with invited me to his house to see his basement lab, and introduced me to his SEI wife. I said to her, "Nice to meet you." I noticed that they had a family photo on the wall, so I said "What a great photo! That kid looks smart as hell."

    I'm pretty sure, based on the way she was looking at me when I left, that she didn't like me but didn't know why.
    Hahaaa, I had a similar situation. My ILI friend's wife is SEI, and they showed me a couple pictures of them at an event they went to. I looked a the pictures and I said "Wow SEI looks good in this one." And she was dead silent, didn't smile, almost looked offended. Almost like she took what I said to mean "You look good in this picture but not the others."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Pixel View Post
    Hahaaa, I had a similar situation. My ILI friend's wife is SEI, and they showed me a couple pictures of them at an event they went to. I looked a the pictures and I said "Wow SEI looks good in this one." And she was dead silent, didn't smile, almost looked offended. Almost like she took what I said to mean "You look good in this picture but not the others."
    sounds quite typical of a certain type of SEI.

    atm my SEI friend seems annoyed with me. She occasionally mentions our mutual friend (well I don’t see the person anymore but she does). Recently that person messaged me and really annoyed me. Now when my friend mentions her I’m not so interested to hear about her. I also wonder if the SEI said something to the friend to make them reach out to me..

    When I didn’t respond enthusiastically to her news about the friend she started randomly going on about how the friend is going through a hard time as their dad is ill, as if to say to me..be more interested in her, she deserves it. lol why I haven’t seen the person properly in about 7 years. I also think the SEI would like us all to hang out together, as that would be nice for her lol. But instead of just saying it, she’s projecting on to me that there is some reason that we all can’t hang out. Yes, there’s a reason, coz the friend is an asshole (?) lol. But the SEI wouldn’t think that I would think that..but if I did she’d be annoyed? It’s lucky I’ve known her a while and I can brush her off very easily and steer the convo in a better direction.
    Last edited by Bethany; 06-30-2022 at 02:44 PM.

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    I agree. LIEs will prefer to know the exact parameters of a situation or task in order to cut down on the unnecessary and extraneous distractions. We can only keep up the dreamy and leisurely pace for so long, before we succumb to our frustration at the sunny, relaxed and calm pace of the SEI. That is why we can sometimes come across as assholes…because people don’t realize we have been compromising our true nature in order to tolerate the relaxed pace, unnecessary (in OUR opinion) niceties and overall inefficiency. Obviously the reason we hold disdain towards those things is because when we try to please at things we suck at, we just feel like a fraud. In these situations then, the SEI comes out ahead, their calm superiority intact and thinking “Geez what’s THEIR problem… so uptight poor thing.” Basically the LIE sees the SEI as dopey, and the SEI sees the LIE as needing anger management therapy. 😁

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    Obviously I'm not an LIE, but my grandmother is SEI, and she drives me crazy because of her (as the user above worded it) "dopey" nature.

    Also though, she has a lot of weird culturally-instilled social norm based values that come from closer to "her times." The result is her determining whether someone is a "good person" (her words, not mine) based on things that she finds socially acceptable. I think the worst example she has ever shared with me was one about how she didn't like this random DoorDash kid because he opened a door to a restaurant with his foot (his hands were full). She said she found it rude/disrespectful to the business owner. It's rare that she will find someone to be a "good person" if they drink or curse. Like, you pretty much have to be family first for it to even be considered, and then you still have to make up for it in other ways. I legit get angry when she tells me about the types of things she is judging people for, and I do confront her about it, usually by trying to point out reasons she should be more understanding. "Were his hands full when he used his foot to open the door?" "Why would cursing make someone a bad person? They aren't really hurting anyone with that." It's the closest we ever get to arguing. She always backs down because she is a 9.
    Last edited by Cat Lady; 08-12-2022 at 06:36 PM.
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    Heh heh ya. And I feel it’s even worse for LIE than SEI, because deep down we know they are “nice” people, so WTF is wrong with US when we’re easily able to find a way to get along with SLEs and LSIs, and yet not be able to get along with SEIs??? Obviously WE’RE the problem! I have a SEI mom, ILE dad, ILE son, ESE son, and an LII ex-husband. For me personally, the LII is by far easiest to get along with, then ESE. It’s tough between ILE & SEI…I have a lot of respect for ILE, but they generally want to challenge for the “top dog” position and sometimes I’m fatigued from the incessant competition when we’re so different that we can’t usefully learn from each other. In contrast, the SEI will usually acquiesce … which ALSO doesn’t satisfy me, because then I lose respect for them and think “well don’t just collapse, show some spunk and present a counterpoint!” LOL.

    As a girl I was in competitive sports and when I came out after a bad performance, I’d look to my mom and yet she’d just shrug—helpless & blank—as if to say “oh well, that’s just how it goes��”, and then she’d move on to wondering where to go and eat (in retrospect, I’m guessing that was her strategic way of diffusing the situation and refusing to engage in what would certainly have been my anger��). Her response would infuriate me though, because I wanted some constructive feedback ie. “next time try ____” or else “try to think of this experience in these terms….” As a mom with 3 boys currently in university, I give them ALL of my insights, attitudes and tricks that worked for me unsolicited, because I don’t want to bury my head in the hard times, I want to be USEFUL. In retrospect though, my mom DID drive me and sit through all my competitions, so that DOES deserve legit respect on my part.

    Another thing I find annoying about SEI, and I’m actually embarrassed to write this because it’s so stupid and insignificant…however I’ll share it in case it is helpful theoretically. It’s their calm little unnecessary sensory movements: for instance when cooking with my mom she’ll give unnecessary attention to food prep. Now I KNOW SEIs are rated as the best cooks, however I want to pull my hair out at all the unnecessary spatula tappings, and gentle, loving thrusting of vegetables in the sauté pan. OMG I need another drink LOL….I admit my mom’s a better cook, but the onions, celery and garlic will sauté just as well without the 50+ pointless and minute love taps with the buttered spatula��.

    There was also an incident after I had just given birth to twins and my mom came to my place in Pittsburgh for a visit. The kids were sleeping, so she & I were watching a movie. We had this stupid chair that my ex and I fell for and bought at Costco—a low rocking chair that looked kind of like a car seat. Anyways I was proud of its comfort, so I insisted that my mom sit in it. We were both having a beer and then she got the hiccups. Then she started her rhythmic deep cough that she’s always had. I was trying to listen to the movie… then she coughed multiple times again while deeply rocking back and forth, hiccuped, and then sneezed twice. I finally couldn’t take all of her sensory bodily function noises anymore, and in an outburst of frustration proclaimed “oh my god would you just STOP?!!! Then she burst out laughing and so did I, and we still joke about it today… likely because it’s a representation of both of us heavily immersed in the stereotypes of our sociotypes, yet having the sense of humour to embrace and own it.

    I’m sure that SEI view LIE as unstable hotheads. This is because during LIE/SEI interactions, the LIE inner psyche tries so hard to keep our frustration under control…while cringingly viewing the puttering, plodding (and in our opinion) airhead demeanour of SEI with disgust. And this then leads to disgust for OURSELVES, because we objectively KNOW that this is an unfair assessment. In actuality, I have a lot of respect for my mother! She grew up on an Indian Reserve and was orphaned and raised in residential/ boarding schools…she became a school teacher and taught Native Indigenous kids in a railroad boxcar classroom. She’s tough, had 5 kids, and yelled at me maybe only 5 times in my whole life. There is NO VALID REASON for me to ever be annoyed with her! That is why I find socionics so helpful: it’s a tool to validate as well as absolve her as well as myself from any hard feelings by giving theoretical reasons for them. In fact on her next visit I will have her read the “Conflict Relations” description, and then ask HER to give honest examples of the ways that she becomes frustrated with ME.

    I do love my mom and am lucky to have had a gentle caring person as a parent…I recently moved to the coast and upon visiting me last September with my sister, I took them to my favourite beach on the ocean and she asked if I would scatter her ashes there in the future when she passes. Given that she grew up—and lives—6 hours away by flight, I admit that that made me feel honoured and important to her. She has an annoyingly uncanny ability though, to ask the wrong question at the wrong time. For instance months will pass without incident, but as soon as one my kids or else my partner & I are having an issue, she will subtly text me “Oh I was just wondering, how is ____ doing?” As if she knows I’m trying to protect her by suppressing something.
    Last edited by ENJoymENT; 08-13-2022 at 06:09 AM.

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