I know this post is old, but I was flipping through this thread. This sounds like my SEI friend from college Adam. Anytime he seems to want to get out of a question he just acts confused & says "huh?" or "what?". He'll even do it over text. I'm like re read it. How do you not hear over text? Lol Do all SEIs use this same strategy?Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Hmmm... I used to have friends and I actually was active in this part of life as a kid. I just came to realization that I was doing it for others and I was putting up a happy face. These things get too complex to handle when you start to think it in terms of other's subconscious perception - the thing we as social beings adjust towards while being slaves to our instincts.
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omg, that is exactly how I describe it...terror when a SEI is in the same room as I am. I just get quiet and try to leave so that the danger-danger warning light in my mind can stop. And they're often perfectly pleasant. I just extrapolate a bad moon rising if I continue around them, unless maybe there's a special circumstance. Pink canary and I can get along for quite a while in video chat if there are other people there. I think many SEI are endearing.
This is abuse...this isn't a mutually healthy SEI-LIE interaction.
At least one of my exes seems to be a SEI. He did not seem to like my being an emotivist. I am playful. A lot of LIE are, probably especially the Ni subtypes and the enneagram 7s and 6s and maybe the 3s. I've found I enjoy boosting the mood and being chipper with people I feel I can be. I do use a smidge of childlike in my interactions, but I also have a HEAPING amount of seriousness compared with Alphas.
ILE are constructivists; LIE are emotivists:
Constructivist
Tend to minimize the emotional elements of interaction, preferring to focus on the 'business' elements.
Have emotional 'anchors' (eg, books, films, places) which they use to support their internal emotional state.
Can become 'emotionally hooked', and can have a strong reaction to a particular part or section regardless of their feelings towards the entirety.
Have greater difficulty disassociating from others' emotions and experiences than from requests for action or consideration.
“I prefer when people offer concrete solutions instead of comfort or sympathy.”
Emotivist
Tend to concentrate foremost on the emotional background of interaction, with 'business' a secondary concern.
Prefer the new and novel over the old and known.
Information perceived as unprofessional or low-quality can leave them indifferent.
Have greater difficulty disassociating from requests for action or consideration than from others' emotions and experiences.
“If a conversation is emotionally negative, I consider it wasted.”
It's one of the most notable differences between my ILI best friend and myself. We're both serious gamma NTs, but..
tangents: OOOH...also my LSI buds and I are def on that same wavelength, and I can sense it in my IEI bestie.
Honestly, I often find you very easy to relate to and enjoy you being a part of the forum. I'm not saying it's a two-way experience.
And a lot of my closest friends have been LSI and SLE.
Most of the disapproval I get from SEIs or at least Si valuers in general has been about their standards for clothing or makeup or behavior....Many express horrification at my choices. And some intimate I'll never be loved and will be shunned.
I think of a lot of that stuff functionally. Yes, I might not have my hair mermaid plaited and my face contoured, but I have short shorts on under my sparkly cocktail dress (easier to dance dramatically and however I want to when the mood hits me) and a friendly straightforwardness, and I end up dancing with more people than they do in the club, so...I'm not getting held back by not conforming.
I have interacted with LIE romantically for a short period of time. We both have sort of a don't give a fuck attitude and mess around a lot. But we had nothing in common except maybe a love for money, our cats, and sexual compatibleness. It was like we were sort of using each other for a thrill, and then it quickly ended. This was a very informal interaction with LIE though being just friendly.
I don't think that all SEIs and LIEs necessarily conflict. I'm LIE-Te and I worked with an SEI-Si and she hated the space I occupied, but I get along very well with an SEI-Fe.
I was wandering through YouTube's Suggestion Algorithm and I came across this clip:
I don't watch movies or television or cable and so I've never seen these characters before, but I'd bet money that Flash is played by an LIE-Te and Supergirl is played by an SEI-Fe because, by god, this is exactly, down to tiny details, how my interaction with the SEI-Fe goes. Even the mutual admiration while knowing that we aren't meant for each other.
I don't think so either. Conflict only seems to happen when one attempts to force the other down a different path and the urge to do so (or to criticise) is usually great. If both can continue to steer in their respective wheelhouses then they coexist quite peaceably; however, any attempts at backseat driving by one will usually irritate the other immensely.
a.k.a. I/O
I agree with this 100%. I think a lot of LIE's are cool and I have a close friend that is one. As friends, it's great! But, We have both mentioned to each other that if we were ever in a relationship, it would be DISASTROUS! I think it would be the same in a working relations too. We would end up forcing each other down a different path and it would not be pretty. My Te and Ni is shit and I can't wrap my head around that stuff to save my life. Anything related to that, I throw to her and vice versa. It keeps the peace and blind spots are covered from being hit by the enemy.
I really do respect LIE's. I am often really amazed of what they can do and accomplish. They are my blind spots that I will never see coming and will K.O in a Te and Ni battle. I just know I will never be able to understand or truly provide what they need at a deep core. The best I can do is just cover their blind spots (or Polr) when the time comes. It's kinda like a swimmer respecting a football player in a way. Both are athletes and understand the skill, time, and effort both need to master their craft. A swimmer will never be a good footballer player and vice versa. They need different things and different training. However, both can help with different aspects of nutrition and possibly improving different muscle groups based on personal expertise. Both can also cheer each other on for their own trophy.
I’m watching Mad Men and there’s a funny interaction between an LIE and SEI.
They’re at a funeral and there’s a pretty lady..
LIE Harry: “God she is all kinds of trouble isn’t she.”
SEI Pete: ‘Everything turns you on, doesn’t it’ pulling a face..(I find this funny coming from an SEI lol)
LSI in the background to Pete: ‘is your mother still alive’..
Almost everything I say to an SEI gets taken the wrong way. An ILE whom I work with invited me to his house to see his basement lab, and introduced me to his SEI wife. I said to her, "Nice to meet you." I noticed that they had a family photo on the wall, so I said "What a great photo! That kid looks smart as hell."
I'm pretty sure, based on the way she was looking at me when I left, that she didn't like me but didn't know why.
@Adam Strange yeah they have their quirks- some are very odd and often they're my favourites. I was at my ILE friend's gig recently and I was feeling a bit low on energy so I wasn't talking to people. I watched his SEI gf move around and say quick a hello to everyone, not wanting to get stuck with anyone for too long unless she 100% felt comfortable. Later on, she spoke to me for ages which was really nice, and it was the first time I felt like she actually liked me. It turns out I can be really quiet, and they actually quite like that lol. My other SEI friend is E5 and she's really smart..but she misunderstands me more than I misunderstand her. We have good conversations about people and why they are the way they are. She has a better general understanding of what motivates people than me. But she's never really understood me, probably because I hid a lot from her, but also because she can't seem to analyse me in the moment very well. It's nice I can be more open with her now.
I remember talking to my male SEI colleague about our LIE colleague who I couldn't figure out. He would say 'she's just a nerd, she just wants to be nerdy and talk about everything lol'. Maybe he understands her better than he understands me. I'll never understand why this person (the SEI) just didn't say 'sorry' after leading me on and then also making a complaint about me at work. I guess it grew into something too huge and overwhelming.. even if he feels sorrow he couldn't see that I was feeling it so much more. But yeah we had a lot of misunderstandings..that spiralled and spiralled. I'd go home thinking 'how can I set things right'..but it should have been him doing that lol. Sometimes the misunderstandings were so slight.. so I think it was easy to slip into more and more..
Hahaaa, I had a similar situation. My ILI friend's wife is SEI, and they showed me a couple pictures of them at an event they went to. I looked a the pictures and I said "Wow SEI looks good in this one." And she was dead silent, didn't smile, almost looked offended. Almost like she took what I said to mean "You look good in this picture but not the others."
sounds quite typical of a certain type of SEI.
atm my SEI friend seems annoyed with me. She occasionally mentions our mutual friend (well I don’t see the person anymore but she does). Recently that person messaged me and really annoyed me. Now when my friend mentions her I’m not so interested to hear about her. I also wonder if the SEI said something to the friend to make them reach out to me..
When I didn’t respond enthusiastically to her news about the friend she started randomly going on about how the friend is going through a hard time as their dad is ill, as if to say to me..be more interested in her, she deserves it. lol why I haven’t seen the person properly in about 7 years. I also think the SEI would like us all to hang out together, as that would be nice for her lol. But instead of just saying it, she’s projecting on to me that there is some reason that we all can’t hang out. Yes, there’s a reason, coz the friend is an asshole (?) lol. But the SEI wouldn’t think that I would think that..but if I did she’d be annoyed? It’s lucky I’ve known her a while and I can brush her off very easily and steer the convo in a better direction.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 06-30-2022 at 02:44 PM.
I agree. LIEs will prefer to know the exact parameters of a situation or task in order to cut down on the unnecessary and extraneous distractions. We can only keep up the dreamy and leisurely pace for so long, before we succumb to our frustration at the sunny, relaxed and calm pace of the SEI. That is why we can sometimes come across as assholes…because people don’t realize we have been compromising our true nature in order to tolerate the relaxed pace, unnecessary (in OUR opinion) niceties and overall inefficiency. Obviously the reason we hold disdain towards those things is because when we try to please at things we suck at, we just feel like a fraud. In these situations then, the SEI comes out ahead, their calm superiority intact and thinking “Geez what’s THEIR problem… so uptight poor thing.” Basically the LIE sees the SEI as dopey, and the SEI sees the LIE as needing anger management therapy. 😁
Obviously I'm not an LIE, but my grandmother is SEI, and she drives me crazy because of her (as the user above worded it) "dopey" nature.
Also though, she has a lot of weird culturally-instilled social norm based values that come from closer to "her times." The result is her determining whether someone is a "good person" (her words, not mine) based on things that she finds socially acceptable. I think the worst example she has ever shared with me was one about how she didn't like this random DoorDash kid because he opened a door to a restaurant with his foot (his hands were full). She said she found it rude/disrespectful to the business owner. It's rare that she will find someone to be a "good person" if they drink or curse. Like, you pretty much have to be family first for it to even be considered, and then you still have to make up for it in other ways. I legit get angry when she tells me about the types of things she is judging people for, and I do confront her about it, usually by trying to point out reasons she should be more understanding. "Were his hands full when he used his foot to open the door?" "Why would cursing make someone a bad person? They aren't really hurting anyone with that." It's the closest we ever get to arguing. She always backs down because she is a 9.
Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 08-12-2022 at 06:36 PM.
Heh heh ya. And I feel it’s even worse for LIE than SEI, because deep down we know they are “nice” people, so WTF is wrong with US when we’re easily able to find a way to get along with SLEs and LSIs, and yet not be able to get along with SEIs??? Obviously WE’RE the problem! I have a SEI mom, ILE dad, ILE son, ESE son, and an LII ex-husband. For me personally, the LII is by far easiest to get along with, then ESE. It’s tough between ILE & SEI…I have a lot of respect for ILE, but they generally want to challenge for the “top dog” position and sometimes I’m fatigued from the incessant competition when we’re so different that we can’t usefully learn from each other. In contrast, the SEI will usually acquiesce … which ALSO doesn’t satisfy me, because then I lose respect for them and think “well don’t just collapse, show some spunk and present a counterpoint!” LOL.
As a girl I was in competitive sports and when I came out after a bad performance, I’d look to my mom and yet she’d just shrug—helpless & blank—as if to say “oh well, that’s just how it goes��”, and then she’d move on to wondering where to go and eat (in retrospect, I’m guessing that was her strategic way of diffusing the situation and refusing to engage in what would certainly have been my anger��). Her response would infuriate me though, because I wanted some constructive feedback ie. “next time try ____” or else “try to think of this experience in these terms….” As a mom with 3 boys currently in university, I give them ALL of my insights, attitudes and tricks that worked for me unsolicited, because I don’t want to bury my head in the hard times, I want to be USEFUL. In retrospect though, my mom DID drive me and sit through all my competitions, so that DOES deserve legit respect on my part.
Another thing I find annoying about SEI, and I’m actually embarrassed to write this because it’s so stupid and insignificant…however I’ll share it in case it is helpful theoretically. It’s their calm little unnecessary sensory movements: for instance when cooking with my mom she’ll give unnecessary attention to food prep. Now I KNOW SEIs are rated as the best cooks, however I want to pull my hair out at all the unnecessary spatula tappings, and gentle, loving thrusting of vegetables in the sauté pan. OMG I need another drink LOL….I admit my mom’s a better cook, but the onions, celery and garlic will sauté just as well without the 50+ pointless and minute love taps with the buttered spatula��.
There was also an incident after I had just given birth to twins and my mom came to my place in Pittsburgh for a visit. The kids were sleeping, so she & I were watching a movie. We had this stupid chair that my ex and I fell for and bought at Costco—a low rocking chair that looked kind of like a car seat. Anyways I was proud of its comfort, so I insisted that my mom sit in it. We were both having a beer and then she got the hiccups. Then she started her rhythmic deep cough that she’s always had. I was trying to listen to the movie… then she coughed multiple times again while deeply rocking back and forth, hiccuped, and then sneezed twice. I finally couldn’t take all of her sensory bodily function noises anymore, and in an outburst of frustration proclaimed “oh my god would you just STOP?!!! Then she burst out laughing and so did I, and we still joke about it today… likely because it’s a representation of both of us heavily immersed in the stereotypes of our sociotypes, yet having the sense of humour to embrace and own it.
I’m sure that SEI view LIE as unstable hotheads. This is because during LIE/SEI interactions, the LIE inner psyche tries so hard to keep our frustration under control…while cringingly viewing the puttering, plodding (and in our opinion) airhead demeanour of SEI with disgust. And this then leads to disgust for OURSELVES, because we objectively KNOW that this is an unfair assessment. In actuality, I have a lot of respect for my mother! She grew up on an Indian Reserve and was orphaned and raised in residential/ boarding schools…she became a school teacher and taught Native Indigenous kids in a railroad boxcar classroom. She’s tough, had 5 kids, and yelled at me maybe only 5 times in my whole life. There is NO VALID REASON for me to ever be annoyed with her! That is why I find socionics so helpful: it’s a tool to validate as well as absolve her as well as myself from any hard feelings by giving theoretical reasons for them. In fact on her next visit I will have her read the “Conflict Relations” description, and then ask HER to give honest examples of the ways that she becomes frustrated with ME.
I do love my mom and am lucky to have had a gentle caring person as a parent…I recently moved to the coast and upon visiting me last September with my sister, I took them to my favourite beach on the ocean and she asked if I would scatter her ashes there in the future when she passes. Given that she grew up—and lives—6 hours away by flight, I admit that that made me feel honoured and important to her. She has an annoyingly uncanny ability though, to ask the wrong question at the wrong time. For instance months will pass without incident, but as soon as one my kids or else my partner & I are having an issue, she will subtly text me “Oh I was just wondering, how is ____ doing?” As if she knows I’m trying to protect her by suppressing something.
Last edited by ENJoymENT; 08-13-2022 at 06:09 AM.
I mostly just fear lies and escape from them, not because they're "bad people" as a loot of people like to portrait them. I just don't have the courage and I'm a coward enough to run from affronting the te.. lol
Every sociotype brings a solution and a challenge for society and I really think thats amazing. I also think it's ridiculous how society portraits ambitious and people who seek a higher economical position as "demonic". You see the typical "evil business man" bullshit everywhere lol, and sadly thats the image a lot of people have for estjs and entjs.
My only advice for them would be to never doubt they're value as humans base on how much they work and how successful they are.
Following this thread
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Dual type(as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I already posted this somewhere but repost since it’s so fit here:
@kuno : now I realize that you look pretty similar to Misa (above), and Adam type her SEI. Maybe you are SEI for real, and lucky you didn’t get a LIE boyfriend lol.
Do I look like her? I've always loved Misa, maybe there's a reason why
I've been cycling through different sociotypes, always convinced I've found a new one that fits me, and yet I always come back to SEI. It's getting embarrassing at this point lol
"shark" is a strong word, specially when LIE is victim and not aggressor in a relationship with his dual or mirror.
Generally, LIE is very "image based" so the SEI tends to innadvartedly expose LIE realm of incompetence, making the LIE look like a clown in front of someone important. Since LIE is usually a business person, this will be bad for their image. This is where conflict usually starts. Then LIE will expose SEI's incompetence, generating an emotional reaction, which will piss off LIE even more and the tornado goes on until someone interfere probably.
That is a supervision relation... and she is an extravert btw
My dad’s favorite word to describe his youngest daughter is “lazy.” With contempt, he shares how she slept 14 hours a day each day last week. He worries that she’ll leech off a dumb man and forgo her own security out of her need for leisure. He bemoans to me how she doesn’t do anything all day except sit around in her room all day, and when he or mom asks her to assist she pretends as if she doesn’t hear them. When she does help, it’s only when she feels like it, but she won’t complete it because she complains that she’s tired and pretends as if she doesn’t hear them again.
Second phrase is “crowd follower.” She doesn’t prioritize people. With disgust, he tells me she’s kinder to her acquaintances than she is with her family. Today, he said she’s always seeking entertainment.
Lastly, he calls her “inconsiderate.” He doesn’t like her entitlement towards other people’s possessions. She states that she’ll be using the car thirty minutes before her departure as if it’s her car and leaves everyone else to accommodate to her schedule. He complains that she always makes him wait on her. He doesn’t like, in his words, “has her eye on other’s pockets, rather than focusing on making her own money.” He bemoans about how she doesn’t help her mom, even when she isn’t feeling well. He says she’s unkind. She’s instigating and mean, but “likes to cry to make people’s heart soft” (Some meaning lost in translation).
My sister calls my dad boring. He repeats his words. He’s paranoid and always forecasting into the future. She complains that he lectures too much and that he constantly corrects her on everything she does, even though “he doesn’t know anything.” She implies he’s dumb nowadays and used to say frankly when she was younger. She calls him a coward a lot. She also doesn’t like that he never “vibes.” In ceremonies and holidays, she says he kills the vibe.
My dad and sister don’t really conflict in a confrontational way, but actually behave very lovingly towards each other. Yet, it’s apparent that my sister doesn’t view my dad as someone respectable and my dad doesn’t favor my sister as he does my older sister and I. In the rare event, when my dad is in a terrible mood, the only person who ever experienced any expression of this directed towards themselves is my younger sister. A slight raised tone or sucking his teeth might slip. My sister will boisterously laugh and join in when my uncle makes my dad the butt of the joke and patronize him. So in that way, a conflict relationship can be noticed.
Jesus, what a weird family picture. Or perhaps you just focussed on the negative a bit.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
What is so weird about it?
probably already answered. but the Fe can be a challenge for LIE. its a stereotype that Fe ego types are just soft and meek. but they can rouse emotions in themselves and others, like a sqaudron. SEI can more easily connect on an emotional level, and emotions are well present in conflicts. the LIE likely gets forced to stand alone as one against many. at that point its a simple numbers game.
Te can be scary for the lack of compassion, but so can Fe for the lack of restraint. (especially with devalued/demonstrative Fi)
"Te can be scary for the lack of compassion, but so can Fe for the lack of restraint."
I like that a lot, thanks!
Well, I wouldn't feel right if the project have failed because I neglected my part.
I worked in the past with people who didn't treat their responsibilities seriously, who weren't my identicals. In fact, I think that SEI can't just simly accept a reputation of someone who slows the Team down - they don't strive to be the best, but also don't want to be the last.
My Te PoLR come into surface when I have to take part in dull business meetings - I dislike taking voice in front of the group. I also avoid competetive and harsh atmosphere, because that makes me loose most of my talents (I become clumsy or overly absorbed with details). I didn't observed my Conflictors to have bigger issues with concentration in difficult work conditions, they seem to stay cold-blooded and under control.
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