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Thread: LIE-SEI conflict reactions (ENTj and ISFp)

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by COVID 007 View Post
    I kind of get offended when people Fi around me. It is bit oxymoron because it goes against their modus operandi that is supposed to prevent it.

    Pretense of treasuring relationship which means catering to their feels so you can suck they in the future which makes me see it as even highly unethical behavior. There are people who really like some good moist kiss on their butt cheeks.
    I don't like when ppl try to manipulate me. I enjoy when people use Fi in a healthy way. I actually had a few Ti ppl, including a few ILEs, be so manipulative that it impacted my decision to hang.

    This can be any type that crosses manip lines
    Last edited by nanashi; 08-09-2020 at 07:49 PM.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by COVID 007 View Post
    Ti is not an effin value. It is like structure. A square is a square, a circle is a circle and how it plays together. That is Ti.

    Because society there is a structure this is where Ti meets Fe.

    Then there is greedy business and frienship games what we call Te-Fi.
    naw....Te is structure that is checked in reality for now. Fi is a good reining in for all that organizing. Fi isn't friendship games. Honestly I respect and enjoy and see the good of Fe and Be and Si and Ti, but anyone can experience Fe as friendship games instead of the positive side of Fe or Ti as ignorantly and greedily constructed. But those are incomplete assessments
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Hmm, imo you are doing much better in the thinking department than a lot of LIEs, at the very least you try to consider all points of view and think things through. I have rather high standards for myself and others (being melancholic), so consider this a compliment.

    With LIEs my problem usually is that their arguments / projects seem like they haven't been properly thought through, as if they run on bad information or lack information and fail at being pragmatic / realistic about how things are & what is actually possible.. ie I find fault with their thinking / decision-making process. In comparison my only problem with an SLEs thinking process is that they seem rash / impulsive, but we are usually on the same page despite that & I can respect them. Not the case with LIE.. idk why. My default is to excessively think things through, I'm very careful & deliberate making sure I don't miss anything. Maybe its that and LIE's thinking seems sloppy and superficial by comparison.

    Its weird tho. Every person I antagonize ends up being someone who types LIE lmao.
    The following may evince some of issues you are experiencing presuming you're ILI.
    "Ni as leading function in IEI (INFp; Esenin) and ILI (INTp; Balzac)
    This person considers himself to be very ideological, consistent, principled, and is very conservative in this. Becomes irritated by those who criticize his ideas. He lives by the "wholeness" of the internal situation. Often able to see "through" things, to the inner essence of something or someone. Romantic and idealist. Lives by his internal harmony, tranquility, serenity, is able to draw inspiration within himself, and gets annoyed by those who try to disturb it. Generally does not like when people try to look inside of him, gets frustrated and angry when this happens. Strives to be inwardly calm in all situations and internally consistent. "Fluid like a river": involuntarily adjusts himself to the interlocutor in conversation by taking form of consciousness that is best fitted for the situation. By this he isn't playing a role, his consciousness is simply multifaceted and he is directed by his inner "wholeness". That is, he simply presents a version of himself. Communicating with you, he always feels your moods as if he is living through them together with you, adjusts himself to this. Loves to introspect and to meditate. In case of failure, can make a qualitative self-analysis. Being present in some place he as if tunes himself out, tries to become invisible like a chameleon, especially if he perceives it as a threat to his inner tranquility: for example, in the workplace so that no one bothers him. Can even hide it in some clever way: arrange a barricade of folders so that behind them he is not visible. Does not like restless, internally discordant individuals, as their state can get transmitted to him, will try to escape from their company at any price. This is especially funny in a situation where a male representative of this type flees from ladies, and they pursue him like prey, because they feel that he has something that they so desperately need: inner peace. But for him this inner "wholeness" is not the product but material for inner consumption, so he can only share this with a small number of people, but sometimes someone might snatch a piece - this makes him very angry. Often, especially in circle of family, he becomes a critic, since deviation in behavior away from his principles turns him aggressive. If in another situation he will somehow restrain himself, at home he may allow himself to explode with anger.

    Ni as creative function of EIE (ENFj; Hamlet) and LIE (ENTj; Jack London)
    These types like to find internally contradictory people, "dig" in them and create in them internal harmony and mood. They make for great artists, because they know how to and love to "become" one with an image of a man and play a role from his worldview. They are able to understand the essence of complex internal situations and make for potentially good analysts. Often it is difficult to find employment for them, as their "product" is the internal conflicts of man and essence, and to penetrate so far, into "the soul" of man, you just need to have permission. Often become unstable, vulnerable, fragile, just so that they can harmonize themselves, and sometimes can start to torment and tear into themselves and dig into their own issues. They have a difficulty finding adequate application to their creative function in the world, since it is not in high demand - not everyone wants someone else to dig into their internal states. Their product - bold ideas, principles, systems of belief and knowledge that they bring into the world and promote. But they do this beautifully, creatively, elegantly, not forcibly imposing them but promoting them in interesting ways. Search for internally contradictory situations, like to grasp their essence. Often realize themselves in art and writing, as this is also a good way to use the function. They are able to enter into various internal psychological states. A good speaker, as he is able to influence positively on the internal state of others. Their product is the "wholeness" of the internal state, and therefore they can find success in field of psychology, because it means that they are the healers of souls. In life they loved to dramatize everything. Everyone around becomes informed about the slightest change in their mood or internal state. Usually they are very fond of "making mountains out of molehills", for them this is a way to find work for their second function. The more they become exposed - the greater the realization of their personality in the world."-Augusta, Information Elements, Wikisocion
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Hmm, imo you are doing much better in the thinking department than a lot of LIEs, at the very least you try to consider all points of view and think things through. I have rather high standards for myself and others (being melancholic), so consider this a compliment.

    With LIEs my problem usually is that their arguments / projects seem like they haven't been properly thought through, as if they run on bad information or lack information and fail at being pragmatic / realistic about how things are & what is actually possible.. ie I find fault with their thinking / decision-making process. In comparison my only problem with an SLEs thinking process is that they seem rash / impulsive, but we are usually on the same page despite that & I can respect them. Not the case with LIE.. idk why. My default is to excessively think things through, I'm very careful & deliberate making sure I don't miss anything. Maybe its that and LIE's thinking seems sloppy and superficial by comparison.

    Its weird tho. Every person I antagonize ends up being someone who types LIE lmao.
    Other background on The usage in LIE and ILI that may be at work here:"Extroverted logic as base function is manifested as a need to accumulate factual information, also from external sources such as books, second-hand information, etc, on matters of personal interest or of professional activity. This also gives these types confidence on being well-informed on the same matters, which enables them to enter arguments related to them with confidence on their knowledge, which may come across as arrogance to others. Another manifestation is an evaluation of external reality - work activities, world events, finances, procedures, personal relationships, conversations - from the point of view of factual accuracy and "making sense" and efficiency. It leads to an inclination to be proactive in increasing the efficiency and reasonableness of the external world, as well as a sense of self-worth connected on being involved and productive in activities seen as useful, profitable, or that increase one's knowledge base. To give out information that the individual knows not to be factually accurate is disturbing and avoided as much as possible.

    Symbol p.gif as a creative (2nd) function (ILI and SLI)
    It is manifested as a preference for factual accuracy over ideological consistency, and for objective, "harsh" communication over careful words that avoid a negative atmosphere. A view of the external environment being efficient, reasonable, and making sense is essential to their well-being and sense of inner peace, but they do not feel a pressing need for being proactive or productive themselves in that area."
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Hmm, imo you are doing much better in the thinking department than a lot of LIEs, at the very least you try to consider all points of view and think things through. I have rather high standards for myself and others (being melancholic), so consider this a compliment.

    With LIEs my problem usually is that their arguments / projects seem like they haven't been properly thought through, as if they run on bad information or lack information and fail at being pragmatic / realistic about how things are & what is actually possible.. ie I find fault with their thinking / decision-making process. In comparison my only problem with an SLEs thinking process is that they seem rash / impulsive, but we are usually on the same page despite that & I can respect them. Not the case with LIE.. idk why. My default is to excessively think things through, I'm very careful & deliberate making sure I don't miss anything. Maybe its that and LIE's thinking seems sloppy and superficial by comparison.

    Its weird tho. Every person I antagonize ends up being someone who types LIE lmao.
    And "Such an individual perceives information from without as feelings about the future, past, and present. For example, a sense of hurriedness, calmness, or heatedness, a sense of timeliness or prematureness, a sense of proper or improper life rhythm, a sense of impending danger or safety, anticipation, fear of being late, a sense of seeing the future, anxiety about what lies ahead, and so forth. At any given moment of one's life one has such a sense of time. One cannot live outside of time or be indifferent toward it. Thus, a certain sense of time is an integral part of the individual's psychological state at any given moment. This perceptual element defines a person's ability or inability to forecast and plan for the future, evade all sorts of troubles, avoid taking wrong actions, and learn from past experience.

    When this element is in the leading position, the individual possesses innate strategic abilities and is able to choose the most optimal moments for different activities: when to give battle, if necessary, and when to avoid battle, when that would be more appropriate. Interaction in time might be interpreted as the ability to avoid collisions with objects and hence avoid objects' reflection within oneself" and " Ni as a base (1st) function (IEI and ILI)
    As a base function, Ni generally manifests itself through a lack of direct attention to the world around oneself, and a sense of detachment or freedom from worldly affairs. This can lead to a highly developed imagination and very unique mental world, but it can also result in a great deal of laziness and apparent inactivity. Because the individual gets his or her primary information about the world through imagination, a person with base Ni may be able to thrive in situations where data are scarce, or where he or she lacks the usual prerequisite experience. However, this may also become a disadvantage if the person ignores real data about the world too much. The ability to transcend the axis of time and understand the cause and effect relationships that occur is also a feature, sometimes resulting in the ability to accurately predict general future trends and outcomes of certain events.

    Ni as a creative (2nd) function (EIE and LIE)
    The individual likes to predict the further development of the situations and topics that he is interested in. The individual applies his highly developed sense of vision not as an end in itself, but as a way of promoting the development of his more central interests and activities"
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    Does not like restless, internally discordant individuals, as their state can get transmitted to him, will try to escape from their company at any price. This is especially funny in a situation where a male representative of this type flees from ladies, and they pursue him like prey, because they feel that he has something that they so desperately need: inner peace.
    I can remember very highly relatable situations of this nature in my life. By Fe-dom ladies. I also do recall some serious disagreements from what I've thought was IEI because of her - in my eyes - very silly and dumb attempt to dig in in my psyche, to 'interpret me' and show me how 'bad' I'm supposedly. Was it EIE and Ni-creative instead?

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    naw....Te is structure that is checked in reality for now. Fi is a good reining in for all that organizing. Fi isn't friendship games. Honestly I respect and enjoy and see the good of Fe and Be and Si and Ti, but anyone can experience Fe as friendship games instead of the positive side of Fe or Ti as ignorantly and greedily constructed. But those are incomplete assessments
    Fi is the relationship function. It can be about base where it won't nudge easily or PoLR in which case people do not really have friends. (I once had but I realized it was due to social expectations so I could relax and take my time into my own control )
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

  8. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by COVID 007 View Post
    Fi is the relationship function. It can be about base where it won't nudge easily or PoLR in which case people do not really have friends.
    I have had very close ILE friends. People thought we were in love, shared a bed platonicallly and were each other's wingwoman/man, etc close.
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  9. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by nanashi View Post
    I have had very close ILE friends. People thought we were in love, shared a bed platonicallly and were each other's wingwoman/man, etc close.
    Fi is one way to build relationships. it's not the only. and Fi isn't comprised solely of games.

    you thrive with heavy Si. I don't.
    I thrive with heavy Fi. You don't.

    simple.
    ENTj-Ni sx/so

  10. #90
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    Hmm... socionics has kind of given me relief. No more need to try to have friends because it gives no fulfillment.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

  11. #91
    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by COVID 007 View Post
    Fi is the relationship function. It can be about base where it won't nudge easily or PoLR in which case people do not really have friends. (I once had but I realized it was due to social expectations so I could relax and take my time into my own control )
    You are not serious about this? ILEs can value friendship very highly. But they seem to intellectualize their values.
    A true sense-perception certainly exists, but it always looks as though objects were not so much forcing their way into the subject in their own right as that the subject were seeing things quite differently, or saw quite other things than the rest of mankind. As a matter of fact, the subject perceives the same things as everybody else, only, he never stops at the purely objective effect, but concerns himself with the subjective perception released by the objective stimulus.
    (Jung on Si)


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    Quote Originally Posted by COVID 007 View Post
    Hmm... socionics has kind of given me relief. No more need to try to have friends because it gives no fulfillment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wasp View Post
    repost but I mean...


    I think Wuncler is supposed to be Dick Cheney.

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