In LIE-SEI conflict relationships how does the LIE get butthurt? Cuz it seems from a kind of a stereotypical shell glance that the LIE is a big bad shark and the SEI is a soft bunny that gets completely devoured by the LIE.
LIE-SEI conflict reactions (ENTj and ISFp)
In LIE-SEI conflict relationships how does the LIE get butthurt? Cuz it seems from a kind of a stereotypical shell glance that the LIE is a big bad shark and the SEI is a soft bunny that gets completely devoured by the LIE.
I think its exactly that. SEI makes LIE out to look like the bad guy, when SEI is actually the one causing problems
When things go wrong, the SEI makes it seem like every request from the LIE is unreasonable and that LIE’s are disgusting human beings.
There is no remedy for this that I know of, so it’s best to do what you can to not let things get to this point.
Conversation between an LIE and an SEI:
LIE: Do you have this week’s results for your project? It is already late and we need to move on this right away.
SEI: I spent all week doing simulations, but I couldn’t get the code to work.
LIE: So you have no results at all?
SEI: ....
LIE: Jeff, this project is critical. We need your results to show the customer. If you are having problems with the code, you should just let me know right away. We can get someone to help you help with it.
SEI: .....
SEI: .....
LIE: Jeff?
SEI: ...Uh, you talking to me?
I know this post is old, but I was flipping through this thread. This sounds like my SEI friend from college Adam. Anytime he seems to want to get out of a question he just acts confused & says "huh?" or "what?". He'll even do it over text. I'm like re read it. How do you not hear over text? Lol Do all SEIs use this same strategy?Originally Posted by Adam Strange
Well, I wouldn't feel right if the project have failed because I neglected my part.
I worked in the past with people who didn't treat their responsibilities seriously, who weren't my identicals. In fact, I think that SEI can't just simly accept a reputation of someone who slows the Team down - they don't strive to be the best, but also don't want to be the last.
My Te PoLR come into surface when I have to take part in dull business meetings - I dislike taking voice in front of the group. I also avoid competetive and harsh atmosphere, because that makes me loose most of my talents (I become clumsy or overly absorbed with details). I didn't observed my Conflictors to have bigger issues with concentration in difficult work conditions, they seem to stay cold-blooded and under control.
lol
haha yeah but in that example it really seems like the SEI is having his ass handed to him with the Te and I don't see the LIE's Si polr much. Is it because he had to repeat himself three times?
LIEs aren't as comfortable relationally and with their own bodies and aesthetics as SEIs are, I guess...
This conflict relationship is one of the less vitriolic, since SEI's are conflict averse, and LIE's are very pragmatic and don't waste time with foolish individuals.
Conflict rel is balance of terror. The distance is adjusted so no open conflict occurs.
I have a LIE friend. Its always great to meet him but we dont meet very often
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
omg, that is exactly how I describe it...terror when a SEI is in the same room as I am. I just get quiet and try to leave so that the danger-danger warning light in my mind can stop. And they're often perfectly pleasant. I just extrapolate a bad moon rising if I continue around them, unless maybe there's a special circumstance. Pink canary and I can get along for quite a while in video chat if there are other people there. I think many SEI are endearing.
Hmmm...
an example from fiction Better call Saul: Crooked Saul (LIE) gets busted in front of everyone when assistant Francesca (SEI) meets him reveals all of his behind the back maneuvers.
Well, the professional relation was based on Saul's bad handling on details and Francesca's good detail and people skills.
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Winning is for losers
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I think this is definitely true in a work relationship were the SEI is always weak and the LIE in his ideal environment.
But in more informal relationships the conflict balance occurs.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
I remember once, 10 years ago, when I was more of an asshole, I had a SEI-Si in my football team.
He was quite slow and selfish, rarely run towards the ball and complained rather often. I tried my best not to say anything but sometimes he would just get on my nerves with his illogical decisions about shooting from afar, etc etc
However, he was quite friendly and often cooked for the team. His relational ability made it such that people did stuff for him (sometimes) to make up for his screw ups on the pitch. He also seemed to just be a lot more comfortable with his life.
Now I have become a lot more mellow about this kind of stuff. Also because I´ve had my screw ups in life.
I know another SEI-Fe who is a street writer. I find his art really cool, although I could never live his lifestyle.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
My aunt is SEI-Si. We get along really well, suprisingly.
I've had two male SEI fiends too, though after a while it became obvious we didn't get along.
When I was studying music, my teacher was SEI. She liked to organize social gatherings with the class, but I can't say I enjoyed the atmosphere. It was very alpha quadra as some of the regulars who went to the gatherings were alpha and I just find that in groups of alphas I seem like the introvert even though I enjoy socialization usually. I think after a while the teacher understood I wasn't well in that group.
Edit: I know these are non-revealing answers to a question that was meant to be revealing. I just don't feel like getting into exactly where my relationships went wrong as its kinda personal. That, and I'm not very self-revealing anyways.
Last edited by Ave; 03-26-2018 at 11:43 AM.
repost but I mean...
I think Wuncler is supposed to be Dick Cheney.
This is abuse...this isn't a mutually healthy SEI-LIE interaction.
^ I don’t think LIE’s are mean. I’ve seen some be huge assholes, but they weren’t being mean.
LIEs ethics is too weak for them to be mean.
People who are mean are often into ethical games and that's not the LIE style.
Some LIEs can be inconsiderate of others' feelings, I don't think they do it on purpose though.
conflictors issues in superego regions of both
- criticism
- high demands in those regions
- obsessive tryes to make you better by overstimulation
note: all this may to annoy
general conflictor influence
- the disturbance to concetrate the attention
- the irrational rise of anxiety
- the irrational rise of doubts in yourself
- supressing the psyche, may to the degree of a depression
- possible neuroses
note: closer personal distance, more of a communication - the more you get
similar you get in any IR where an opponent has ego function which relates to your superego. conflictors/superego just have it the most. you may to get same problems from weak functions of opponents, but in lesser degree and more limited
Last week I got a call from a guy who was referring a friend of his to my company. His friend needed some help and was willing to consider trading business equity for it. I wanted to meet this new guy to see if his equity would be worth anything, so I called him and he invited me to his home to talk about the deal and meet his family.
He mentioned that he has a PhD in Analytical Chemistry, so I assumed he was an LII.
When I got to his mid-century modern house, his wife met me at the door. The house was incredibly neat and had brightly colored, bold paintings on the walls. I thought, "She's SEI." And sure enough, when the guy came out to shake my hand, I saw that he is ILE.
He was incredibly smart and incredibly friendly and incredibly optimistic. His optimism overwhelmed any shadows in the corners of the room. But I caught his SEI wife looking at me sometimes with a look of worried caution, as if there were something about me that she really didn't like.
I can't imagine what that might have been.
I recall how when I first met a LIE ex in college I was with a SEI friend, and SEI was immediately off-put by LIE as soon as he approached me. Basically all he did was introduce himself very formally to me and that was enough for SEI to be disgusted by him. SEI remarked upon him later that he was very "sleazy", lol. She (SEI) was absolutely instantly repelled by this guy. I am not sure what it was that turned her so completely against him, maybe his Te formality (?). Unsure.
LIE's lack the eager, puppy dog, child-like innocence of ILE's. SEI's normally know what they like. They are looking for innocent, precocious children, not jaded grim-dark adults.
I was watching the SEI size me up, trying to figure out what it was about me that she didn't like. Expensive black leather shoes, grey wool slacks, white cotton shirt, expensive jacket, each one examined and no flaw was found but she knew how she felt. I'm pretty sure she had a long talk with the ILE after I left.
Depends on the context, but I'm guessing that to an SEI, wearing expensive clothing and looking overly by-the-book might be a a flaw in itself. They rarely do so themselves, but they generally secretly (and perhaps unconsciously) like people who don't acknowledge the ridiculous formal expectations and culture of "professional" environments -- or disregard it in subtle ways, like leaving collars unbuttoned or whatever. It's probably the ILE-seeking part of them.
In her old retail job, my girlfriend would gossip often with her also-SEI manager about the LIE HR manager. They hated him for perfectly understandable reasons -- he hit on 16-year-olds, he was stupid, he was unbelievably incompetent -- but much of their conversation about him had to do with how formal and inhuman he seemed to them -- and how hypocritical his behavior seemed given that he sat on his ass all day and bought expensive toys with company money; i.e. acted in private "unprofessionally" while expecting others to abide by his "corporate bullshit."
At least one of my exes seems to be a SEI. He did not seem to like my being an emotivist. I am playful. A lot of LIE are, probably especially the Ni subtypes and the enneagram 7s and 6s and maybe the 3s. I've found I enjoy boosting the mood and being chipper with people I feel I can be. I do use a smidge of childlike in my interactions, but I also have a HEAPING amount of seriousness compared with Alphas.
ILE are constructivists; LIE are emotivists:
Constructivist
Tend to minimize the emotional elements of interaction, preferring to focus on the 'business' elements.
Have emotional 'anchors' (eg, books, films, places) which they use to support their internal emotional state.
Can become 'emotionally hooked', and can have a strong reaction to a particular part or section regardless of their feelings towards the entirety.
Have greater difficulty disassociating from others' emotions and experiences than from requests for action or consideration.
“I prefer when people offer concrete solutions instead of comfort or sympathy.”
Emotivist
Tend to concentrate foremost on the emotional background of interaction, with 'business' a secondary concern.
Prefer the new and novel over the old and known.
Information perceived as unprofessional or low-quality can leave them indifferent.
Have greater difficulty disassociating from requests for action or consideration than from others' emotions and experiences.
“If a conversation is emotionally negative, I consider it wasted.”
It's one of the most notable differences between my ILI best friend and myself. We're both serious gamma NTs, but..
tangents: OOOH...also my LSI buds and I are def on that same wavelength, and I can sense it in my IEI bestie.
A particularly jarring aspect of my conflict with SEIs is that I can feel restricted and suffocated by too much "comfort" and "coziness," whether that's being pushed onto me or they're prioritizing that for themselves. I honestly believe that hidden agenda Se and PoLR Si can create a quasi God complex in LIEs > I get a kick out of challenging and defying my corporeal limitations in ways big and small, from triathlons and extreme fasting to not zipping up my jacket on a particularly cold day. lol I like to feel, delusionally or otherwise, as if I'm besting mother nature/conquering the environment and so prioritizing comfort just seems foreign and if being completely honest, albeit a bit unfair, weak in some respects. I'm not saying that "cozy" things and experiences can't be nice (and as I get older, I appreciate them more and more), but it just seems...odd...to prioritize that and especially if I'm really focused on some interesting/compelling/stimulating pursuit, then the instinct is to keep going, push harder and ignore pesky little things like eating, sleeping and breathing. lol
And sometimes I think SEIs, for whom the bible saying "the meek shall inherit the earth" was most likely written (alongside words like 'sheep' that metaphorically represent patience, humility and submission), are easily and understandably put off by the seemingly cognitive antithesis of that, as represented by the LIE--from the perspective of both conflictors, the other forcefully leans into the "functional" traits that most repel them. Interestingly enough, I see the SEI as our fun house mirror reflection > often overworked, misunderstood and underappreciated for all that we do, relentlessly, unceremoniously, day in and day out, just to then be dismissively and condescendingly confined to some one dimensional stereotype that doesn't nearly capture our full complexity > there's a lot more depth to the iceberg than one might guess by simply focusing on what is most readily observable.
LIE's are usually dry people who try to talk about real things to get somewhere and do not get jazzed up by their interests with special flair or maybe the interest is in pulling up potatoes from a field... like true try hard Se (this has happened to me once with LIE). I think this can be a huge turn off.
Last edited by The Reality Denialist; 06-03-2019 at 07:06 AM.
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
lol I seriously doubt I'm the only person to have encountered many a I*E that can aggressively overestimate their Role Se to foolish proportions (and especially because it's conscious). So be seated on that one. I*Es are never allowed to pick up "shiny" and "interesting" objects at my place for fear of this >
Ye but I do not usually try to impress people with it. Being spazzy and all. I think people just find it funny when you are walking like a drunk while being sober.lol I seriously doubt I'm the only person to have encountered many a I*E that can aggressively overestimate their Role Se to foolish proportions (and especially because it's conscious). So be seated on that one. I*Es are never allowed to pick up "shiny" and "interesting" objects at my place for fear of this >
MOTTO: NEVER TRUST IN REALITY
Winning is for losers
Sincerely yours,
idiosyncratic type
Life is a joke but do you have a life?
Joinif you dare https://matrix.to/#/#The16Types:matrix.org
In open warfare, LIEs will usually crush SEIs; however, SEIs rarely participate in open warfare. SEIs tend to have superior self-preservation tools while LIEs put themselves out there for everyone to snipe at. Although SEIs seem to have more difficulty making a name for themselves, they will outlast most LIEs, who tend toward meteoric burnouts........
a.k.a. I/O
I agree. LIEs will prefer to know the exact parameters of a situation or task in order to cut down on the unnecessary and extraneous distractions. We can only keep up the dreamy and leisurely pace for so long, before we succumb to our frustration at the sunny, relaxed and calm pace of the SEI. That is why we can sometimes come across as assholes…because people don’t realize we have been compromising our true nature in order to tolerate the relaxed pace, unnecessary (in OUR opinion) niceties and overall inefficiency. Obviously the reason we hold disdain towards those things is because when we try to please at things we suck at, we just feel like a fraud. In these situations then, the SEI comes out ahead, their calm superiority intact and thinking “Geez what’s THEIR problem… so uptight poor thing.” Basically the LIE sees the SEI as dopey, and the SEI sees the LIE as needing anger management therapy. 😁
LMAO , conflict about LIE and SEI irl.
I have 2 friend ( one of them is my close friend ). LIE and SEI males. They're really fuckin awkward tbh and seems conflicting.
It happens irl. It's better , they do relation on distance and just a friend
As a SEI, I actually like LiEs. They simultaneously have a calming and dominating presence, but they make for really deep and pleasant discussions. ILIs, on the other hand, leave a bad taste in my mouth. I don't know why the switch to introvert makes such a big difference(Fe polr?), but they're just so literal minded and I feel lost and awkward when talking to them. It's like I'll make a casual comment, and then they'll attack it like a piece of meat. Like I said, I appreciate good discussion, and they bring some good insights to the table, but they're just so analytical that it's like, "Did I do something wrong?". I don't really get into conflicts with either of them, but it's just..woah.
there was a well-known example
John Kennedy (ENTJ) and his wife (ISFP)
"SEI, Hufflepuff, INFP, Aries"
SEI is ISFP. same may to be with the ones who you suppose as LIEs
also to like conflictors on a distance is not rare. I perceive women-coflictors as rather cute people, just do not try to be close to them to notice their demons
@robobot14, your avatar picture is perfect. It is quintessentially how I see SEI's.
I work with a female SEI, and she's one of the nicest, most valuable people I know. I will say that, other than saying Hi to her every day, I try to minimize our physical time together because I think that Conflict relationships can be likened to radioactivity exposure. Time X Proximity = Death. But if you don't get too close, SEI's can be like a walk in the park on a sunny day (which will get you 2 millirem, just enough to keep you warm and bring a smile to your face and make you glad you made the trip.)
My ex was SEI. We both saw each other as interesting in theory, and once we started interacting on a deeper level we realized that we didn't have anything in common. Most of my conversations with him were punctuated by awkward silences and I constantly felt restricted somehow, like he wouldn't respond well to anything I said. He seemed to be the same way. The main conflicts we had were his "complex of closed mouth" according to strat and Te.
I knew it wouldn't be a serious thing from our earliest conversations, but it was near the end of high school and I wanted to get experience before I graduated. Also, I wouldn't see him again afterwards, once I went to college. We agreed that it was just for fun, by the way...
We ended up breaking up earlier than I expected because we kept disagreeing on things.
He seemed to weirdly pride himself on being an "open book" and having "no secrets." He was always skeptical when I wanted to keep something private and eventually he told people about a personal detail I didn't want anyone knowing. He often told people things casually, without thinking of the consequences of his actions.
He seemed kind of ambitionless and directionless, which is just a personal turnoff. He was a decent student but he had a reputation for being unreliable with projects and seemed kind of lazy. He told me once that he "was worried that he'd seem like he was trying too hard, so he'd try to seem lazier, but then he'd end up actually being lazy," which sounds like Te-PoLR to me.
I remember always trying to help him with Te matters; once, when he lost some parts for his hobby, I told him about a service they offer where he could order new parts for free. But he always gave a dull reaction. We broke up when he showed me a website he coded for a political candidate and I noticed he'd misspelled their name. I usually don't correct ppl's grammar but this was obviously important, so I told him. And then later on, he complained about me to everyone, I guess saying that I was a know-it-all bitch or something.
oh no. My manager might be SEI.
SEIs are the ultimate here-and-now and in-the-moment kind of personalities. Respect them for this quality, while at the same time sticking to respecting that you yourself are different, and keep a safe distance.
“I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that.” --- Pippi Longstocking
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