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Thread: Your typing of forum members

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    I don’t know much about model G, and Bertrand has some of the qualities I expect with EIE, and lacks some I associate specifically with Fe, but I appreciate the method he’s opted for, which I take to be “choose a particular approach, type yourself within it.”

    But the real issue is, can model G make me a T type? If not, what use it it?
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    I think bertie is SEE 3w4
    Everyone's an SEE 3w4 until proven otherwise.
    4w3 7w6 1w9 so/sx
    IEI - C (Creative subtype)
    MBTI INFP

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    Or ESI.

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    @golden why do you want to be a T type?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Doesn't really work like that
    Though...I should say that EIE is one of the only two reasonable typings for Bertrand. I am a bit surprised he is raising it as an option now after coming up with the absurd typings of the past, albeit "in Model G".

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    @golden why do you want to be a T type?
    I’m usually trying to improve my knowledge and understanding, but when a T person of reasonable IQ comes along, they can simplify my tangled thoughts. I’d like to be able to do that for myself. It hasn’t happened yet.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    I’m usually trying to improve my knowledge and understanding, but when a T person of reasonable IQ comes along, they can simplify my tangled thoughts. I’d like to be able to do that for myself. It hasn’t happened yet.
    Is it -dual seeking, golden?

    ...and yeah, the T is more desireable from the F side, or something like that, as F is more desireable from the T side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Is it -dual seeking, golden?

    ...and yeah, the T is more desireable from the F side, or something like that, as F is more desireable from the T side.
    It might be, though I like T so much that I am okay with Te also.

    What about F looks desirable?
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Though...I should say that EIE is one of the only two reasonable typings for Bertrand. I am a bit surprised he is raising it as an option now after coming up with the absurd typings of the past, albeit "in Model G".
    Could you explain why you see it this way?
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    I’m usually trying to improve my knowledge and understanding, but when a T person of reasonable IQ comes along, they can simplify my tangled thoughts. I’d like to be able to do that for myself. It hasn’t happened yet.
    Thinking with either Te or Ti can become pretty complex and resource consuming to express.

    Also, Ts often have a habit of repressing their emotions, which can lead to skewed thinking because no matter who you are, the irrational factors of being human guide the intellect.

    So, I'd say, since you're more likely to be honest with yourself about your emotions and biases, you have the hardware necessary to detangle your thoughts (or, at the very least, a certain edge).

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    It might be, though I like T so much that I am okay with Te also.

    What about F looks desirable?
    That's funny. I like F so much I'm OK with Fe, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post

    What about F looks desirable?
    I'm trying to give some encouragement here, but imagine I'm sucking ass at it. If roles were reversed, I'm sure you'd be doing a lot better. That's what looks desirable about F.

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    Well, suggestive wants the clarity.
    suggestive really gets bumped up by emotional expression. It is quite easy to make LSI's laugh if you want it. Yes, it seems so - even for me.
    suggestive needs the depth of purpose for pretty much anything. It is not so hard to make them go to trance like state. Speak with deep wisdom and they are hooked.
    suggestive is also like like a kid in amusement park at first. "Wow! It could be like this" and I nod.
    suggestive. Do something that makes things to progress. Improve efficiency. They pretty much jump around you out of gratitude.

    Suggestive is like a little child with simple needs when things get initialized.


    It really works just look for buttons and where you can press them.

    Did socionics made me manipulative?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Though...I should say that EIE is one of the only two reasonable typings for Bertrand. I am a bit surprised he is raising it as an option now after coming up with the absurd typings of the past, albeit "in Model G".
    what is the other typing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    I'm trying to give some encouragement here, but imagine I'm sucking ass at it. If roles were reversed, I'm sure you'd be doing a lot better. That's what looks desirable about F.
    Okay, maybe as an F person, I’m pretty good at imparting the information that’s most relevant to the recipient because it’s based on feeling out their motivation to know. The number of motivations a person can have is finite. People are complex, but not as complex as we tell ourselves we are.

    But I am not so good at manipulating information away from humanistic concerns, and I always strive to get better at it. A fair chunk of the time, I feel pretty dumb and have to be actively reminded I’m not.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Okay, maybe as an F person, I’m pretty good at imparting the information that’s most relevant to the recipient because it’s based on feeling out their motivation to know. The number of motivations a person can have is finite. People are complex, but not as complex as we tell ourselves we are.
    I suck ass at this and practically need an instruction booklet to figure out what to say to people, because in my mind, the possibilities go into infinity.

    But I am not so good at manipulating information away from humanistic concerns, and I always strive to get better at it. A fair chunk of the time, I feel pretty dumb and have to be actively reminded I’m not.
    You're not dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    I suck ass at this and practically need an instruction booklet to figure out what to say to people, because in my mind, the possibilities go into infinity.
    A useful resource along these lines is called The Human Givens. I’ve tried to recommend it to people many times and gotten no interest except from a neuroscientist.

    https://www.amazon.com/Human-Givens-.../dp/1899398317

    You're not dumb.
    Thanks. I figured you’d think I was on a fishing expedition and say that. The thing that helps me most is to be in environments and situations where I actually can use my intellect, and then I find out it works just fine.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    A useful resource along these lines is called The Human Givens. I’ve tried to recommend it to people many times and gotten no interest except from a neuroscientist.
    Thanks!

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    @golden

    Whenever I see your username, I think of the Golden Syrup Song:

    Stick it on, Lick it off,
    1 - 2 - 3!
    Golden Syrup is for me!



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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Could you explain why you see it this way?
    Quote Originally Posted by Simo View Post
    what is the other typing?
    -Bertrand seems very much focused on getting a reaction rather than conveying any kind of coherent thought process. He has openly admitted that a lot of what he writes is just BS. And he's not at all averse to being annoying and messing with people to this end. However he is not exactly "aggressive" or strong-willed either, in most cases.
    -His very elaborate style of communication is a pretty typical for Beta NFs (though not universal) - he seems allergic to simplicity

    I used to think he was EIE, but his video made him seem a lot more low-energy than you might guess from how much he writes. So I tend to think IEI now.

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    look my BS has to be coherent otherwise I wouldn't get the reaction, this isn't your 5 year old coloring this is jackson pollock at work

    also I don't feel much like a positivist. saying im introverted defaults back to social stereotyping

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    look my BS has to be coherent otherwise I wouldn't get the reaction
    This doesn't really follow. Sure, it has to have coherent elements, but BS that's incoherent on the whole tends to get plenty of reactions. Just look at Yahoo answers.

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    actually it follows if you want to not troll randomly and actually have a direction in mind, which I do. like I said im not just throwing shit at a wall. the method is imperceptible to many, which is why I try not to feel too insulted by being called a troll. its the same kind of shit dads see when they look at pollock. based on your hairline I don't blame you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    actually it follows if you want to not troll randomly and actually have a direction in mind, which I do. like I said im not just throwing shit at a wall. the method is imperceptible to many, which is why I try not to feel too insulted by being called a troll. its the same kind of shit dads see when they look at pollock. based on your hairline I don't blame you
    Just because you intend to accomplish something doesn't mean you accomplish it effectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    actually it follows if you want to not troll randomly and actually have a direction in mind, which I do. like I said im not just throwing shit at a wall. the method is imperceptible to many, which is why I try not to feel too insulted by being called a troll. its the same kind of shit dads see when they look at pollock. based on your hairline I don't blame you
    Few of the statements in your comments have a direct relation to each other. This tells me that you are uncomfortable with pure logic (this is reasoning that moves from causes to effects, like: if we assume that every trait is in proportion, women with big breasts are more likely to have big butts also).

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    So, say we were to assemble a random group of say 100 topless women, and below the waist their bodies were obscured by a shade, I think it would be fair to assume that if their bodies all followed a similar curve (due to the proportionality) that the ass circumference would be superior on the women whose breasts were most pleasant to the eyes.

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    https://socioniks.net/article/?id=115

    Sensory comfort

    S

    Conformism


    Business logic

    P

    Work, benefits, profits, money


    one of my early mistakes was trying to "rehabilitate", I think, Te, because of conflicting perceptions on what it entailed... the thing I like about Gulenko is that he puts the whole thing in a way clearer framework.. in a lot of ways it preserves my underlying reality sense, but it just moves the labels around, but it does so in a way that makes those labels clear and consistent. so there's not this battle over what it means to be gamma or beta, etc. He's got it nailed down. I used to think Te wasn't "money" per se, because in classical socionics its not. but if you just accept that in G it is, it makes things so much easier. its no slight on the people, because the "gammas" whose honor you wanted to defend, are not gamma anymore if they don't value those things, they simply get shifted over into a different quadra, etc. in this way he's crafted a framework that is simple and elegant and doesn't have the same ideological confusions arising out of it that other models do

    in law school I see this very clearly: how people perceive the legal profession. The Ti types see it more as justice as an ideal, and the Si Te types see it more as a job where you learn the rules not to change them but to profit by applying them when people come to consult you about them. they each develop their own understanding of the body of laws, but the Ti types want to mold the laws to improve the global needs of people, whereas the Te types want to use the laws primarily to benefit themselves and their families etc. in delta especially, this means not changing them, just pinning them down so they don't need to re-learn anything but can simply rely on their knowledge to produce reliable profits as people ask them "what if.." x or y etc. Ti types do the same thing, but their stake in it is more ideological, they're asking themselves if x what does that mean for everyone in time and how should be structure xy and z in order to produce an overall fair result on a global scale. you see this most obviously when they structure the rules governing financial institutions themselves. if you don't take a systemic approach to rules governing acquisition of wealth inevitably any profitable domain becomes susceptible to regulatory capture, where since the rule is man-against-man simply tweaking the rules for one's own (via kickbacks from corporations) benefit is fair game. thus you get the Trump version of the EPA and so forth (this is more Te Ni, not Si)
    Last edited by Bertrand; 10-04-2018 at 11:42 PM.

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    Bertrand isn't an intentional troll, he's just an unintentional troll.

    I think a lot of the "BS" that he writes is just him being deliberately obscure and convoluted so that he won't be criticized for his positions and be proven wrong by muddling issues.

    So this whole thing basically stems from being a narcissist who can't admit that he's wrong, who thinks that he's a misunderstood genius, not that any of this stems from being a "type" or from any of the "functions". He just piles on lies on top of lies and BS on top of BS, which increasingly become even more convoluted and incoherent.

    A lot of the stuff Bertrand writes just goes beyond his own intellectual capabilities. A stupid person talking about complex issues will sound muddled, incoherent and convoluted. He's a compensating narcissist. He will attempt to justify this by saying he doesn't value "Ti" or whatever, but he just doesn't value intelligence. Some may mistake his convoluted style of writing as being "deep" or "intellectual". But it's strictly anti-intellectual.

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    I do value Ti though... I also feel bad because I have an ILI instructor I like, but I wonder if she thinks I'm a narcissist because we often debate and miscommunicate. I think Fe polr types think everything is emotional manipulation when its like they are legit cognitive processes that shouldn't be discounted a priori

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    I think i might be SLI. The problem is i'm very good at rationalizing almost every perspective and to create groundworks for every socionics position in relation to the IE/IR. I 'play' certain types to see how they fit and discover modes of thinking that correspond with types. I must have RP'ed almost every type in the socion by now

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    Sorry for my late answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    It might be, though I like T so much that I am okay with Te also.
    My take on this: It's the part of supplemental seeking in ourselves. We're all trying to improve the immature aspects of us.
    If the weakness of a person is thinking we are trying to improve this aspect by interacting with people whose strength is thinking
    and if the weakness of a person is value judgement... you already know the conclusion, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    What about F looks desirable?
    Understanding the motivations of other people. This is a weakness of myself.
    It seems to me it's a missing part of me.
    Last edited by WinnieW; 10-07-2018 at 01:58 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Understanding the motivations of other people. This is a weakness of myself.
    It seems to me it's a missing part of me.
    This response helped me, because I had a college boyfriend I type LII and remained friends with. Apart from mutual immaturity, one of the things I struggled with was what I thought was his misconstrual of my intentions. I hadn’t thought of it quite the way you put it, and I don’t think he’d have been able to know that was a weakness of his at the time. It feels less personal and painful to examine it in the terms you used.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGDoomer View Post
    I think i might be SLI. The problem is i'm very good at rationalizing almost every perspective and to create groundworks for every socionics position in relation to the IE/IR. I 'play' certain types to see how they fit and discover modes of thinking that correspond with types. I must have RP'ed almost every type in the socion by now
    For some reason I thought the username was inspired by Per Mertesacker at first, are you a football fan and arsenal fan in particular ?

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    @golden.
    is quite personal detached, so you might receive an answer that isn't very adapted to your value system.

    I wasn't that skilled at reading the intentions of other people either, but I recognized the emotions other persons expressed quite well... but the intentions of other people was like a foreign language to me.

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    This is getting somewhere interesting. I think when you see LII jumping to conclusions about people you will realize that they are entering into dangerous territory. It is like their Ne is for getting ideas and not so much to take new perspectives (EII will fall into territory of taking way too many naive perspectives). Remaining objective when you are primarily subjective can be a challenge.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by hag 2 View Post
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    whats interesting is how this relates to the idea of "Benefit shift". the idea of that iirc is when we are "good" ("on a high"; not really like a "mood", but rather being in a good headspace), we act like our Benefactor. i took this idea further and speculated to myself "when we are "bad" (bad headspace) we act like our Beneficiary".

    you said LII jumping to conclusion is sign of "bad", it just so happens LII's Beneficiary is SLI (is there any more simple/closeminded type than SLI? fuck you if you want to be an idiot and argue yes)
    *cuts my wrists, takes antidepressants, thinks about end of the world and questions meaning of life*

    Sounds OK.
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

     

    Sincerely yours,
    idiosyncratic type

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    @golden.
    is quite personal detached, so you might receive an answer that isn't very adapted to your value system.

    I wasn't that skilled at reading the intentions of other people either, but I recognized the emotions other persons expressed quite well... but the intentions of other people was like a foreign language to me.
    This is really interesting, thank you for sharing this.

    I have observed with LII, they sometimes read too much into people's intentions. My father is LII, he usually has this habit of doing "you did this thing because you secretly have ulterior motives. I know it and you can't convince me otherwise." Then if I explain myself he doesn't listen. He does however, respond well to forceful emotions. I think he understands people's emotions if they're obvious enough. Otherwise he struggles with it. I didn't think this was something a lot of LIIs experienced...
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




  38. #2438
    thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pano Lou View Post
    This is really interesting, thank you for sharing this.

    I have observed with LII, they sometimes read too much into people's intentions. My father is LII, he usually has this habit of doing "you did this thing because you secretly have ulterior motives. I know it and you can't convince me otherwise." Then if I explain myself he doesn't listen.
    That isn't typical LII behavior. Sounds more like ESI on the face of it, tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    That isn't typical LII behavior. Sounds more like ESI on the face of it, tbh.
    I'm not too sure, I keep changing on my typing for him. He's too much of an enigma for me to pin down...
    "My love for Linton is like the foliage in the woods: time will change it, I'm well aware, as winter changes the trees. My love for Heathcliff resembles the eternal rocks beneath: a source of little visible delight, but necessary. Nelly, I am Heathcliff! He's always, always in my mind"



    "Catherine Earnshaw, may you not rest as long as I am living; you said I killed you—haunt me, then!... Be with me always—take any form—drive me mad! only do not leave me in this abyss, where I cannot find you!"




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    Quote Originally Posted by TheUltimateDJ391 View Post
    For some reason I thought the username was inspired by Per Mertesacker at first, are you a football fan and arsenal fan in particular ?
    No, it's a videogame-inspired name.

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