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Thread: Your typing of forum members

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Finally a typing.
    How do you came to that conclusion? Based on a few single posts or an accumulated general impression of my posts in this forum.

    Does INTj-Ne match LII-H or is this a conflicting combination? To my understanding INTj-Ne should match LII-C;
    do that two systems of subtypes have a strong correlation to each other, or don't?

    tbh. I'm too much of a covert rebel to fit a harmonizing type.
    All you have to do is to put some pressure on me, that kind of pressure I don't like and the harmony is gone...

    Do you think that kind of subtype is static or dynamic?
    It is just your attentiveness to harmony of your environment which promotes dynamic elements. I think there is some sort of PoLR at work. It is like harmonizing type needs to be in peace with PoLR.

    I think for H it is like they want to be the rebels and C wants to be in harmony but... that is why they should look for each other.

    Anyways H is just the impression I got based on your texts.
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    @Avebury have you considered EIE? Just wondering.
    "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see." - Schopenhauer

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    I thought @Bertrand was ESI months ago, but now think IEE.
    "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see." - Schopenhauer

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    @fox I think you're ESI and wish you'd post more these days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    I thought @Bertrand was ESI months ago, but now think IEE.
    I type @Bertrand ILI. To me, he seems like a pretty good example of Dialectical-Algorithmic cognition and NT. There's only one of those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    I type @Bertrand ILI. To me, he seems like a pretty good example of Dialectical-Algorithmic cognition and NT. There's only one of those.
    He always struck me as Holographic Panoramic. He makes a generous amount of comparisons to illustrate his perceptions. It's one of the reasons his walls of text seem to start at New York City and wind up at Timbuktu. Ie. he sees how disparate ideas have similar qualities because he perceives those qualities from numerous angles.

    Additionally, he appears to kind of wake up with a new frame of mind every day, like the sociotype.com description of IEEs trying out different lifestyles, going back to the IEE proclivity for novelty and potential.

    @Aramas What makes you say DA? Can you cite particular instances?
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    He always struck me as Holographic Panoramic. He makes a generous amount of comparisons to illustrate his perceptions. It's one of the reasons his walls of text seem to start at New York City and wind up at Timbuktu.

    Additionally, he appears to kind of wake up with a new frame of mind every day, like the sociotype.com description of IEEs trying out different lifestyles, going back to the IEE proclivity for novelty and potential.
    @Aramas What makes you say DA? Can you cite particular instances?
    Evolutionary cognitive styles expand and unfold. Involutionary styles compact and distill.

    Bertrand is obviously the former.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    I thought @Bertrand was ESI months ago, but now think IEE.
    Yep. He needs SLI to press Return key for him at least once in a while.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    @Avebury have you considered EIE? Just wondering.
    It was my self-typing for some time.

    I now think it's wrong, however.

    Why do you suggest it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    He always struck me as Holographic Panoramic. He makes a generous amount of comparisons to illustrate his perceptions. It's one of the reasons his walls of text seem to start at New York City and wind up at Timbuktu. Ie. he sees how disparate ideas have similar qualities because he perceives those qualities from numerous angles.

    Additionally, he appears to kind of wake up with a new frame of mind every day, like the sociotype.com description of IEEs trying out different lifestyles, going back to the IEE proclivity for novelty and potential.

    @Aramas What makes you say DA? Can you cite particular instances?
    Also, his writing style shows a preference for a linear/sequential/serial mode of thought. If you don't read everything he says in order, you can't get him. Or at least, I can't lol.

    Read James Joyce and read Bertrand. It's the same dynamic.

    We sometimes have a complementary exchange on the forum where I tend to find clearer ways of saying what he wants to communicate. I tend to boil it down for others. Sometimes, others don't get me because I can't expand. He does that for me. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement when it happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Evolutionary cognitive styles expand and unfold. Involutionary styles compact and distill.

    Bertrand is obviously the former.
    I understand it's hard to believe, but I'm pretty sure he flies all over the place in order distill his supposedly immense profundity for us lowly, impoverished, uneducated peasants to digest. After all, how else would we be able to wrap our feeble minds around the apex of intellect that is Bertrand?
    "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see." - Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    It was my self-typing for some time.

    I now think it's wrong, however.

    Why do you suggest it?
    Your thoughts seem very Dialectical Algorithmic.

    Also, since Betas tend to have more of a "punching up" quality, in terms of power dynamics. Which I think you have. In contrast, LIEs "punch down" more because they try to maintain their foothold.
    "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see." - Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    I understand it's hard to believe, but I'm pretty sure he flies all over the place in order distill his supposedly immense profundity for us lowly, impoverished, uneducated peasants to digest. After all, how else would we be able to wrap our feeble minds around the apex of intellect that is Bertrand?
    Lol. Read James Joyce (EIE). It does jump all over the place (stream of consciousness), but it's still serialized thought and you don't get it unless you follow the stream. It's because the essential mode of thought there is sequential transformation.

    HP cognition is more point-blank and comes in discrete self-contained packets without continuity between parts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Lol. Read James Joyce (EIE). It does jump all over the place (stream of consciousness), but it's still serialized thought and you don't get it unless you follow the stream. It's because the essential mode of thought there is sequential transformation.

    HP cognition is more point-blank and comes in discrete self-contained packets without continuity between parts.
    It's serialized because that's how he distills the points he tries to make. He uses isomorphisms to illustrate general principles between things that seem different at face value, but are not opposites. Analogies connected to prior knowledge.

    If he was EIE (DA), on the other hand, his thoughts would involve complete and total opposites, emerging as an unexpected synthesis.
    "Talent hits a target no one else can hit; genius hits a target no one else can see." - Schopenhauer

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    Your thoughts seem very Dialectical Algorithmic.

    Also, since Betas tend to have more of a "punching up" quality, in terms of power dynamics. Which I think you have. In contrast, LIEs "punch down" more because they try to maintain their foothold.
    Interesting, I was always wondering what cognitive style I had. I cannot tell from reading the descriptions and comparing them with some piece of text I wrote in the past - so it really helps to know what people think.

    If you don't mind, could you perhaps explain why my thoughts seem DA to you? Maybe with an example?

    What do you mean by "punching up" vs "punching down"?
    Last edited by Uncle Ave; 10-02-2018 at 09:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    Interesting, I was always wondering what cognitive style I had. I cannot tell from reading the descriptions and comparing them with some piece of text I wrote in the past - so it really helps to know what people think.

    If you don't mind, could you perhaps give an explain why my thoughts seem DA to you? Maybe with an example?

    What do you mean by "punching up" vs "punching down"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    I never knew socionics had an interpretation of history...

    In any case, I agree with @Bertrand that history was never meant to be about just repeating facts in a literal sense, it's about narrative, since history is always written by the victors. That isn't to say the facts in history books are wrong, they aeren't, just that there is more to history than stating facts, it's really about their interpretation.

    So any scientific interpretation of historical events or phases of history will also convey a certain narrative and certain values.

    Again, I repeat: it is those that swear only by science that seem the most influenced by religion and philosophy, especially when it comes to moral or ethical questions...
    I mean, I think it depends on whether you arrived at this conclusion yourself, but I see this kind of thinking a lot with EIEs and ILIs. The way a conclusion drawn from a combination of opposites. Generally, you have a point, then a counterpoint, then you arrive at a new understanding.

    I don't want to go through your post history here or rifle around more than this. I'll just give you another example and see if it sticks. By CS Luis:

    “Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

    Notice the negativism in how he sees the terms used by critics. Like any negativist, he takes a pre-existing system of thought, and rather than building on it, he breaks it down. Then, he builds a new system from the merged parts of the old. Trent Reznor also employs a lot of this kind of thinking, which you can hear in his lyrics. He mentions breaking things down into pieces and reassembling them into systems of greater complexity. He also refers to karmic themes that are built on the same kind of thinking in "Head Like A Hole" and other songs.

    Re: "punching up", well the proof here is fuzzier, but I get the impression that you have libertarian leanings because you dislike excessive/abusive authority. So you have an attitude of resisting preexisting structures of power with your own force, in contrast with gammas, who typically aim to preserve their power. If libertarianism belonged to any quadra, it would probably be Beta, just by virtue of the rebellious "teenage" aspects of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    I mean, I think it depends on whether you arrived at this conclusion yourself, but I see this kind of thinking a lot with EIEs and ILIs. The way a conclusion drawn from a combination of opposites. Generally, you have a point, then a counterpoint, then you arrive at a new understanding.

    I don't want to go through your post history here or rifle around more than this. I'll just give you another example and see if it sticks. By CS Luis:

    “Critics who treat 'adult' as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

    Notice the negativism in how he sees the terms used by critics. Like any negativist, he takes a pre-existing system of thought, and rather than building on it, he breaks it down. Then, he builds a new system from the merged parts of the old. Trent Reznor also employs a lot of this kind of thinking, which you can hear in his lyrics. He mentions breaking things down into pieces and reassembling them into systems of greater complexity. He also refers to karmic themes that are built on the same kind of thinking in "Head Like A Hole" and other songs.

    Re: "punching up", well the proof here is fuzzier, but I get the impression that you have libertarian leanings because you dislike excessive/abusive authority. So you have an attitude of resisting preexisting structures of power with your own force, in contrast with gammas, who typically aim to preserve their power. If libertarianism belonged to any quadra, it would probably be Beta, just by virtue of the rebellious "teenage" aspects of it.
    That's very interesting, thanks!

    Yeah, I did come to that conclusion myself, it's not a line I lifted off something I read lol. It's interesting to have this kind of feedback wrt to my cognitive style.

    I rejected beta and EIE for my type after people analyzed my questionnaire on the socionics section of perC (a couple years ago, yes, there are alot of n00bs on perC but also some people who know their stuff). They said I was clearly democratic. I didn't believe them at first, but Entropic (dunno if anyone knows him) pretty much "proved"(for lack of a better word) to me that the way I view people is not based on their "role" in a group or society. Rather, and this is me saying it, not anyone else - I'm pretty "flexible" when it comes to how I see people, people can belong in one group and do something that contradicts said group and also belong to another group. Note that at first I wasn't convinced of being a democratic type.

    For example, a college teacher sleeping with a student is not likely to bother me (assuming they are both adults and consenting) because that's all there is to it - the "role" of the college professor isn't something I see as sacred. An aristocrat might say it gives a bad image and a "teacher shouldn't do that" even if they are both happy and not breaking any laws. This might not be the best example of what I mean, since it might interfere with the professor's neutrality in grading the student, but if the student is no longer a student - it's a former teacher they had - than I really see nothing wrong with it.

    Another thing I should not is that I'm pretty sure of being valuing, especially since my experience in groups of alphas is general discomfort. Sol doesn't believe me, but I have some experience with groups where the majority of the members, or the more prominent members are alphas and their constant cheeriness gets on my nerves. I am aware that beta is not the same in terms of group of atmosphere, there is less of a focus on being constantly positive.

    Wrt to politics, yes I lean libertarian though I don't see political ideologies as type related in themselves. Here is an excellent post on this topic by Expat. http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post542525

    As he says, alpha and beta are more likely to want to replace the system with anew one and thus have a "revolutionary" outlook, gamma/delta are more likely to want to work with existing systems for reform, rather than revolution.

    I don't have a revolutionary outlook on politics, I believe revolution to be something of a last resort, if true oppression comes to be. However, I am aware things would have to come to a truly sorry state before I would even consider such a thing, lol.

    That said, since you think I am DA cognition I am going to seriously consider ILI and even give EIE another look. I'm currently taking Sol's IR test right now, it takes a while but I will post the results when I'm through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    That's very interesting, thanks!
    NP.

    Wrt to politics, yes I lean libertarian though I don't see political ideologies as type related in themselves. Here is an excellent post on this topic by Expat. http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...l=1#post542525
    Your politics were the best demonstration of a general feeling of "resistance" I get from you. But yes, I agree that there's no 1:1 relationship between political beliefs and type.

    Re: your attitude about revolution. That's interesting, I learn something new every day.

    I should add that, if this exchange demonstrates anything, it's that you have more mildness than gamma NTs. With them, almost everything takes on businesslike elements, and even casual discussions can seem like an exercise in strategy. They put in quite a bit of effort to cover for their vulnerabilities (it wouldn't surprise me if one jumped on this conversation just to muddy the waters about this), but you seem pretty candid and vulnerable.

    Just my 2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    I thought @Bertrand was ESI months ago, but now think IEE.
    Not IEE at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aki View Post
    Not IEE at all
    What do you think he is?
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    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    It's serialized because that's how he distills the points he tries to make. He uses isomorphisms to illustrate general principles between things that seem different at face value, but are not opposites. Analogies connected to prior knowledge.

    If he was EIE (DA), on the other hand, his thoughts would involve complete and total opposites, emerging as an unexpected synthesis.
    I think you're just mincing words to try to squeeze him into that category lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    I think you're just mincing words to try to squeeze him into that category lol.
    I'm not. Just speaking from experience with LIIs.
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    Why is Bertrand considered to be ethical type? I have seen him being quite rude and impolate around the forum showing lack of emotional intelligence rather than its strength. But maybe that's just my limited experience with him and he has actually showed the softer side of his persona. I'd type him SLI to be honest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A Moderator View Post
    What do you think he is?
    IDK, he has changed of type and quadra many types. Intuitive is my guess, but I doubt IEE. He seems to have a predilection for sensors, especially females.

    I've been thinking in two possibilities…

    One is that he could be an intuitive logical type who's bored and trolling while trying to prove himself that he can defend almost any cause and successfully convince an audience (he's studying laws), and for that matter he's using this forum as practice field, in which case I think his provocative attitude to get emotive reactions from outside could fit in the Oldham style disorder for ENTP.

    My second guess (if he's not trolling neither acting that way on purpose but being his true self), is NF mb beta.
    Last edited by Ragdoll Cat; 10-02-2018 at 07:44 PM.

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    Bert is hard one. Anyways, his style is overflowing more than crystallizing and therefore ego is very unlikely. Although HP cog style LII and SLE might produce similar word salad if they wanted it really badly.

    Not even severely schizophrenic CD cog thinker could pull it out. ILE's and LSI's are very quite terse people when it comes to language. Condensation is usually taken extreme level where it is flowing logic and all the "facts" are stripped out. ILE's might make it lively with little bit of drama (as interactive snippets that takes place in text and not describing it).
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    Thus Spoke Berthustra

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    I think Im a EIE in model G. Aki is right, female sensors are hot (this is almost true by definition for a straight male intuitive, so hopefully its not viewed as weird or crass). in real life im a little different but I try to be honest on the forums, its just a slightly distorted view because of the medium, and its just not just me and the medium, the entire environment is subject to this, so like every other poster feeds into it too. think how strange it is historically to have this virtual forum for interaction where people can say whatever almost without consequence and the central topic is some arcane corner of psychology. im not saying this to make an excuse for any bad behavior of mine, Im saying this to hopefully point out what could be considered bizarre behavior is not that weird if you just look at the context. it may be weird compared to some of the lizard men who frequent this place but then you gotta also compare me to all the banned psychos too. in that light I may be off to one side but its not as extreme as it may seem
    Last edited by Bertrand; 10-02-2018 at 10:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Why is Bertrand considered to be ethical type? I have seen him being quite rude and impolate around the forum showing lack of emotional intelligence
    cause the logical intelligence he lacks some more

    also his F is not so bad in my Te perception
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    I think Im a EIE in model G. Aki is right, female sensors are hot (this is almost true by definition for a straight male intuitive, so hopefully its not viewed as weird or crass). in real life im a little different but I try to be honest on the forums, its just a slightly distorted view because of the medium, and its just not just me and the medium, the entire environment is subject to this, so like every other poster feeds into it too. think how strange it is historically to have this virtual forum for interaction where people can say whatever almost without consequence and the central topic is some arcane corner of psychology. im not saying this to make an excuse for any bad behavior of mine, Im saying this to hopefully point out what could be considered bizarre behavior is not that weird if you just look at the context. it may be weird compared to some of the lizard men who frequent this place but then you gotta also compare me to all the banned psychos too. in that light I may be off to one side but its not as extreme as it may seem
    I'm not convinced yet, upload a video.

  31. #2391
    Bertrand's Avatar
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    you misunderstand, I thought I was helping by giving my 2 cents, but Im not trying to convince anyone, since in any case most people don't subscribe to model G or understand it anyway. I don't expect mass approval from the group and honestly making a video to get their approval feels beneath me and a waste of my time. my counter proposal is people should just learn model G and forget discussing my type in the meanwhile

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    COOL AND MANLY's Avatar
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    I do think you are EIE, Bertrand. You seem kind of scatterbrained, but also sure of your convictions. Yet you are not entirely unreasonable.

    I actually like reading your posts, but I don't always agree with your conclusions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    you misunderstand, I thought I was helping by giving my 2 cents, but Im not trying to convince anyone, since in any case most people don't subscribe to model G or understand it anyway. I don't expect mass approval from the group and honestly making a video to get their approval feels beneath me and a waste of my time. my counter proposal is people should just learn model G and forget discussing my type in the meanwhile

    I don't care.

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    model G is for winners anyway

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    عالم نفسي thehotelambush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Why is Bertrand considered to be ethical type? I have seen him being quite rude and impolate around the forum showing lack of emotional intelligence rather than its strength. But maybe that's just my limited experience with him and he has actually showed the softer side of his persona. I'd type him SLI to be honest.
    Being rude doesn't mean someone isn't ethical, or SLI, especially if they are doing it intentionally to get a reaction. SLIs are more so neglectful of emotional impact but they do try to be unobtrusive and not deliberately mess with people as Bertrand does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aki View Post
    IDK, he has changed of type and quadra many types. Intuitive is my guess, but I doubt IEE. He seems to have a predilection for sensors, especially females.

    I've been thinking in two possibilitiesÖ

    One is that he could be an intuitive logical type who's bored and trolling while trying to prove himself that he can defend almost any cause and successfully convince an audience (he's studying laws), and for that matter he's using this forum as practice field, in which case I think his provocative attitude to get emotive reactions from outside could fit in the Oldham style disorder for ENTP.

    My second guess (if he's not trolling neither acting that way on purpose but being his true self), is NF mb beta.
    This is one of the more accurate posts I've seen regarding Bertrand's personality...

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Being rude doesn't mean someone isn't ethical, or SLI, especially if they are doing it intentionally to get a reaction. SLIs are more so neglectful of emotional impact but they do try to be unobtrusive and not deliberately mess with people as Bertrand does.



    This is one of the more accurate posts I've seen regarding Bertrand's personality...
    Tbh I've never seen @Bertrand as trying to mess with people deliberately. He seems like he just states what he thinks. If people have a problem with that, that doesn't mean he's trolling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avebury View Post
    It was my self-typing for some time.

    I now think it's wrong, however.

    Why do you suggest it?
    Avebury, you seem like a clear Te/Fi quadra imo.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Formerly Chuck's Sneeds Feed and Seed's Avatar
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    I think I'm EII-Ne. Creative subtype. Or maybe not. Idk.

    I AM THE KING OF ALABAMA


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    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    model G is for winners anyway
    I think secondary ego model [mirage sift] seems more reasonable in terms of social roles but G's energy attributes might be reasonable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Groucho Marx
    I donít care to belong to any club that will have me as a member.


    Due to Fi PoLR do not send PM's, please. 50/50 likelihood to get a reply if I'm going to even read your messages. Let's keep things public.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aramas View Post
    Tbh I've never seen @Bertrand as trying to mess with people deliberately. He seems like he just states what he thinks. If people have a problem with that, that doesn't mean he's trolling.
    So he messes with people un-deliberately?

    Maybe he really is just crazy and narcissistic.

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