I'm not sure, I think it's courtesy to do so, though I kinda didn't do so right there.Originally Posted by crAck
do we need permission to give people our opinions on their type here... ?
I felt like I needed to express my thoughts "in the moment" since they were so clear.
Well, Aster said she evaluated people's attitudes and if I understand correctly, knew how she felt about those people based on the attitude they expressed? Like the superfcial people and the knowitalls both have an attitude she can put her finger on and she asseses people by such attitudes? Or at least it seemed to me.
Not sure what isn't clear about my statement at this point, but feel free to ask if something isn't.
Ok, just read it.
You guys think I'm H-LIE. Interesting.
Also, the age thing - lol.
It's cool, I appreciate knowing what is said (because I am curious) even if I am not paranoid lol.
You are probably sick of being typed and spoken about Avebury, and it is your thing to work out. I wanted to add though that I don't think you are the types Sol mentioned in the sense that I feel good IR with you. It may be just you are strong H subtype and e6 but if you are an F type I would think not Beta.
Yes, very true.
And you are confident in this, skeptical that people you dislike can change or be made into better people. EII would be the opposite "they can change if you help them grow".
Yes, I don't think people change, not really. Like I think they can appear to change, but inside they are still made of the same things, it can just express itself in different ways. For example, if you've ever read Tess of the D'Urbervilles, Alec D'Urberville converts to Christianity and starts preaching after doing some pretty terrible things, but even though it looks like he's changed, I don't think he really did. He was just expressing his inherent personality in a different way. I suppose one could call that growth. But what I think of as growth is just living and learning, growing wiser or even more cautious and calculating. Some people don't seem to learn that much and keep doing the same things, some people get beat down by life as they get older and develop a more humble attitude, and some people move on to other things, that doesn't seem like change of a person to me, just a change of situation....
What do you guys think?
Ha, I don't know
But I'm going honest here. I could never say with certainty whether I am ESI or EII. I see where both parties are coming from. I'm very conflict avoidant and have a serious lack of motivation and willpower. But I can also be highly critical and resistant to change. People say Se types are good at things like dancing or flipping pancakes (lol), or even conflict, but I'm absolutely terrible at that kind of thing. But I don't have a problem with other sensory things like decorating or color coordination.
I just type myself Fi base as I don't feel like I match either of the stereotypes, nor do I want to. I don't like being expected to match them. I don't mind people discussing my type, either
But your post didn't bother me, @Avebury. I genuinely appreciate your opinion. You were tactful in your presentation of it. Some people really lack tact in their typing of people, imo, and it usually starts fights or resentments. I don't think it's wrong to type people here, all I'm saying is I think some people go about it badly.
the more I think about it the more I think judging a relationship based on how comfortable you feel is a delta>alpha>b/g dynamic, so if that's really the case, it leans strongly to delta (and maybe alpha). I know a SLI and he was talking about how basically his main goal is not that his relationship to society to be proper (i.e.: does not make contribution to general society a priority) but to maintain an adequate level of comfort for the people he loves. comfort in this sense is not somehow meeting their goals or advancing their agenda, its literal sensory comfort at any moment defined by a kind of state of medium (not euphoric or anything like that). so if someone finds "winning" to be "comfortable" SLI is going to piss them off because they have very different definitions of comfort. Comfort for SLI might actively undermine someone else's idea of what a "comfortable" relationship is, because with respect to the non-SLI their notion of comfortable is something other than this state of continual medium. I think all of delta participates in this dynamic, to varying degrees
@cookie123
I'd look at your video.
I don't really mind it, I guess. I don't like the way some users present their opinions, but that isn't most people, so you might think I have a problem with it, but really, I don't.
Aw, yeah you told me already about the IR thing : ) . I do apreciate you telling me this, though I also think that IR only comes into play at close psychological distance...at least in my understanding of the system. But I hear you on this, and it is sweet of you to tell me.I wanted to add though that I don't think you are the types Sol mentioned in the sense that I feel good IR with you. It may be just you are strong H subtype and e6 but if you are an F type I would think not Beta.
I actually think I am not an aristocratic type at all, so beta is out of the question, but really so is delta...I do think that ILI-IEE is a good relationship, and even benefit can be comfortable to a degree (Filatova lists both as favorable relations).
Is it possible you are maybe EII? Which would mean semi-duality if I'm LIE, and that is a pretty good relationship.
Last edited by Ave; 09-06-2018 at 03:42 PM.
I strongly disagee with your understanding of the system here.
Judging relationship by how it makes you feel internally is anthing.
You are getting caught up in the word "comfort", but I'm not talking about physical comfort obviously, but how a person makes you feel.
Although I would assume that all people care about psychological comfort in relationships, that is what socionics seeks to explain after all.
It's just thathave very different attitudes about how to express emotions,
Though I think delta, which values bothand
Though it is possible we are talking about two different things, you seem to use comfort to mean the physical, which is clearly not what I was commenting on earlier.
only for the cooperation and in the same values
> and even benefit can be comfortable to a degree (Filatova lists both as favorable relations)
any IR "can be comfortable to a degree" as the type is not the only we value in others
also IR theory mostly relates to close friendship and marriage relations in the sense of psyche comfort. there are a lot of more surface and lesser personal communications
i actually meant to collapse the two into si and fi, since thats precisely what counts in delta, so when talking to a delta in a colloquial sense thats what they tend to mean, with the words both feeling and comfort
what really matters is how aster experience her relationships, not so much how 3rd parties understand them, so i get your point thats what you meant, but my main goal was to paint a picture to see if aster related to it at all. if she says "aha! i think that describes me in some ways" then its possible she could be more on the EII side of things. of course ESI sort of unconsciously strives to be more like their bene in some ways, so that could also cause her to respond that way too, but if she says no I don't recognize that mode at all, it also tells us something
ive actually noticed with ILI they tend to not understand complex relationships involving more than them + 1, or if they do begin to talk about it starts to become really idiosyncratic. i think its a product of fe polr, being super unique and built from ground up. based on this i think it is likely aveburry is actually ILI, if im right about my theory. ive noticed it popping up with other ILIs, or at least people I think are ILIs
@Bertrand gotcha
Also since you added stuff...why do you say that about my understanding of relationships?
Last edited by Ave; 09-06-2018 at 04:00 PM.
i've just noticed one feature of fe polr in ILIs is not being able to understand complex multiparty relationships the same as everyone else, it always seems to be cause for miscommunication, even if the topic is not specifically about those relaitonships but entails them in some way oblique way, they get sort of tunnel visioned on one interpretation of who is relating to who when a third person speaks, like they don't track whats happening in a way everyone else does, so then when they comment it usually sounds like something out of left field. if you take what they actually were referring to into consideration the logic is always sound, but its a logical statement from a perspective other people aren't aware of, about a feeling dynamic so its almost always weird sounding, although not that weird if you can trace everything back to the perspective and the logical nature of the commentary
And you notice this in my behavior, yes? Can you give an example?
I personally think this might be related to
In regards to @comfort. The thing about socionics is it's hard for me to compare my inner experience to others. I can't say if I pay more or less attention to my internal state than others other than what I observe from the outside. Like for example, I have a really hard time pushing myself to distance run. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I simply can't breathe and I always hated phys ed because I was always last and felt like I was dying. I thought I had asthma for something. I looked it up online and maybe I'm breathing wrong? I really don't know. I'm obviously doing something wrong or something is wrong with me. I feel like other people are 'getting' something I'm not (pointers accepted).
I really like my comfort, honestly. I like wearing comfortable things, being in comfortable environments, and I feel sensitive to the elements. I don't like when people put me in uncomfortable or dangerous situations.
I don't think I choose the people I like or don't like because they make me physically comfortable, although it could play a part. Like if I'm friends with someone who wants to take me sky diving or make me wake up early and get to sleep late, they are making me uncomfortable, and I'm probably going to complain a lot, but that won't make me dislike them as a person if I like their personality. I mean at least they are getting me out of the house which is more than I can do a lot of the time.
As for me being comfortable with their personality, this is hard for me to say. Things I like make me happy and probably feel good. I'm probably getting oxytocin or something from them. Is liking something in a way linked to comfort anyway? It's really hard for me to distinguish. It seems complicated.
So to sum it up, I don't know.
is this, is that
lol
Lol.
Of course not.
But when something appears as true in your mind it will make "sense" automatically, like "aha". At least that's how it is for me.
So you don't have to choose, if it doesn't make sense, but how could you go against your own judgement (from within not because people are pressuring you from without, lol) if it suddenly does?
Edit: I guess where I'm going with this is : why do you think you can't come to a conclusion on this?
I guess I am curious.
Well, let's let her answer, shall we?
No, I meant Aster, I asked her a question, basically why she feels she can't come to a conclusion about her type, or why she doesn't want to.
I am just curious to hear why she thinks this as it seems kinda alien to my own thought process, but I guess she isn't obligated to answer. I just felt like giving her a little more time to do so.
I question my own judgement a lot I suppose. It's probably a combo of being indecisive and skeptical. I don't like making assertions, I'd rather dig deeper and ask more questions. Coming to an absolute conclusion isn't really a goal of mine. I would just continue to question it. It's just the way I am. Sorry, you guys
It's ok, I understand, I guess you are kinda opposite to me in that regard, haha. I love drawing conclusion and making assertions.I question my own judgement a lot I suppose. It's probably a combo of being indecisive and skeptical. I don't like making assertions, I'd rather dig deeper and ask more questions. Coming to an absolute conclusion isn't really a goal of mine. I would just continue to question it. It's just the way I am. Sorry, you guys
After 13 years or so on this site both as an admin and as a peon I'm at a stage where I don't generally get into arguments over theory or people's types, as I see them as unproductive. I don't think that any perception of me based on fairly recent activity here is thus going to represent the full picture. I've certainly made peevish and uncompromising judgements in the past, which on one hand were sometimes rather neurotic, but on the other hand were generally perspectives I thought were perfectly reasonable and unconditionally true.
I missed this earlier.
Yes, I agree.
You are more likely to "do" your producing functions, and "be" your accepting ones. I think I "do", as well as
From one of Strat's articles:http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...Stratiyevskaya
I relate to this. MyThe organization of comfort usually falls to the shoulders of Jack ... This happens in the least since this function for LIE occupies synethetic (creative) position, while for ILI it is analytic. The ILI is willing to take on the role of the judge or consultant on this aspect, but he is in no rush to provide effective assistance.
?
This made me wonder, do you like being in group? Even something like the shoutbox.And you notice this in my behavior, yes? Can you give an example?
I personally think this might be related to
It doesn't scare me, but I don't enjoy it or get pleasure out of it either.
I much prefer one on one intimacy and close relations. Though this can happen in the shoutbox ^^.
The truth is socionics and mbti are bullshit and typologists are like psychics squabbling over who is the most psychic without the awareness that no one is.
^what type are you? I instantly liked your post.
The mysteries of crAck.
Deep mysteries of the crAck. Some depths are better left unexplored.
Speak for yourself noob
Interesting.
I much prefer shoutbox or group settings to intimate conversations (even though I have started quite a few).
There's always a point where relationships get too close so I flip out and ruin it...
Meow. : 3
SEE would be a better archetype of boundless energy (or ESEI can see that.
"confident in her own assessment of people's attitudes" - what does this mean, in detail?
can I have my pick of gamma types? I want to be LIE - boundless energy
p.s. it is ok to discuss my type.
"The way you are" seems more like an EIII question my own judgement a lot I suppose. It's probably a combo of being indecisive and skeptical. I don't like making assertions, I'd rather dig deeper and ask more questions. Coming to an absolute conclusion isn't really a goal of mine. I would just continue to question it. It's just the way I am. Sorry, you guys
Eh. More Gulenko Reinin nonsense. ILEs not under the information category? EIIs accumulate information but IEEs don't?
SeFe are the energy functions, NeTe are the information ones.
I actually took that as a compliment. I am proud to be a noob at socionics as I am proud to be a noob at psychic readings, conspiracy theories, and pseudoscience.
Yeah be proud of your nonunderstanding of socionics after 2774 posts on a socionics forum.
Some people really are fucking retarded.
I know, right? Especially people who naively accept a discredited, pseudoscientific psychological theory with a cult-like fervor.
Im Nebula I need scientists to tell me right from wrong
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