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Thread: Your typing of forum members

  1. #2041
    Feeling fucking fantastic golden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    The LSE says "But don’t you think [positive possible outcome?]", and then you say "no", or is this not what you meant?
    That's sort of what I meant, but I was greatly oversimplifying.



    LSE: I'm just concerned that we just bought [X] less than two years ago and [Y consequence].

    Me: I understand that, and normally I'd agree with you, but we're not in a normal situation.

    LSE: But so far all I hear is speculation.

    Me: Look, as I already explained, I've done a lot of research in the last few weeks, and I learned that the value of [X] is highly cyclical. Here is a chart showing the value over the last 150 years. Look at the regularity of the cycle. Now look at [year]. Of course I wouldn't go on this research alone, but the evidence that the value is already starting to go down is all around us. [I cite concrete evidence.] That's why I did the research in the first place. The signs are extremely troubling. And they began about a year ago, and they've been mounting. Values are already dropping in [places A and B]. Those are primary markets. We're dealing with a secondary market, and so it's only a matter of time.

    LSE: But don't you think that there's still a chance for the value to go up?

    Me: [Looks at LSE sadly.] No.

    LSE: [Silent for a minute. LSE looks very uncomfortable.] I can't commit to this based on the information we have. I'd like to bring in [person Z] to see what he thinks. He might have some ideas. [Person Z is an IEE.]



    In a situation like this, even though I had in hand concrete evidence, my high level of conviction was based on Ni. It was Ni that led me to gather the facts, and the overall gesture from me was coming from Ni. And it meant my demanding that the LSE do something he didn't want to do, in essence, close off an avenue of possibilities. Because the risk was way too high, the danger signs were all flashing, and only one of us was reading the scenario that way.
    Last edited by golden; 08-02-2018 at 02:22 PM.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    In a situation like this, even though I had in hand concrete evidence, my high level of conviction was based on Ni. It was Ni that led me to gather the facts, and the overall gesture from me was coming from Ni. And it meant my demanding that the LSE do something he didn't want to do, in essence, close off an avenue of possibilities. Because the risk was way too high, the danger signs were all flashing, and only one of us was reading the scenario that way.
    Thanks, great example for Ne vs Ni PoLR actually... I personally would not be uncomfortable with avoiding something risky like that, don't care about this "problem" of closing off an avenue of possibilities lol. If the thing was something I really wanted, I just simply find a way that's sensible and implementable, not this possibilities bullshit. I can be really flexible and adaptable to a degree actually in finding such concrete ways to achieve a goal past obstacles. But this "ohh maybe there is a chance for the value to go up" is just big no no. Would be maddening actually, to think of whatever possibilities and (not concrete enough) options instead of eliminating them asap.

    So yeah I guess @thehotelambush had a point with it where he said LSI is the really rigid one not LSE, with limiting things way more than LSE.

    I always find that language highly intriguing to me also, the way you spoke in the example. I'd definitely want to hear more if I didn't hear enough to fully understand it yet.

  3. #2043
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Thanks, great example for Ne vs Ni PoLR actually...
    Cool, I reconstructed it as best I could and as sympathetically as I could to the other party. *cough*

    I personally would not be uncomfortable with avoiding something risky like that, don't care about this "problem" of closing off an avenue of possibilities lol. If the thing was something I really wanted, I just simply find a way that's sensible and implementable, not this possibilities bullshit.
    Yes, exactly. Just do something else that makes more sense immediately, because as long as it's actually sensible, it will fit into the big picture better anyhow.

    In the above situation the thing to do was the drop the very hot potato as quickly as possible. I mean, it was a stressful thing, and I had my own regrets, but there were no further possibilities worth exploring in that specific thing.

    I can be really flexible and adaptable to a degree actually in finding such concrete ways to achieve a goal past obstacles. But this "ohh maybe there is a chance for the value to go up" is just big no no. Would be maddening actually, to think of whatever possibilities and (not concrete enough) options instead of eliminating them asap.
    Yes, I'm sure you can adapt well and it's just a matter of knowing what the situation actually consists of. I think LSEs can mobilize in their way, also, but the long-range pattern is different. To me the LSE pattern looks like steady-steady-steady-steady-rupture. Regroup-steady-steady-steady-steady-rupture. I really want to avoid the ruptures; I assume I do that with Ni.

    Ruptures are super hard for me to regroup from. I generally don't see them as opportunities, even if I know they contain opportunity strictly logically. I'm able to react quickly to low-stakes novel situations and handle people-centric emergencies, but overall I'm probably not very flexible and adaptable. I say no to a LOT of things. My nickname is Grumpy-oni right now.

    But upon reflection bc of this thread, I do see some ways in which I am very into possibilities. For example, with regard to other people looking for solutions to their problems, paths forward, I will throw out a lot of possibilities. As a parent, my core philosophies include that it is my responsibility to help my children understand what is concretely possible for them to experience in this world. If I see an interest or skill they possess, I will help them see that a whole realm of practical possibilities can be found in it.

    So yeah I guess @thehotelambush had a point with it where he said LSI is the really rigid one not LSE, with limiting things way more than LSE.
    That's interesting. I think LSIs do limit things more, but both LSE and LSI can come off as rigid. (Not a bad thing as I see it.) So it must be in different areas. What do you think about that?

    I always find that language highly intriguing to me also, the way you spoke in the example. I'd definitely want to hear more if I didn't hear enough to fully understand it yet.
    Yes, it was odd sifting back through memories of dealing with a couple of LSEs because with them I knew that my contributions were on the one hand sort of valued because they would lead to satisfactory outcomes, but mostly I was speaking into the wind. I grew to feel sheepish about offering ethereal abstract information, patterns, internally modeled ideas, even though these both spring from and map to facts much of the time.

    Yet it's very easy for me to speak that way to Beta STs. LSIs in particular seem to perceive I'm connecting into something that is meaningful, that isn't antithetical to logic, and they accept it without devaluing it and making me feel weird.
    LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”

    Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”

    LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”

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    @NorthernRose
    IEI (IEE maybe even?)
    @Kara
    EII
    @crAck
    ILE

    Intuitive impressions and novice socionist so take with grain of salt (a very big one)

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    @BFGDoomer
    Return of the IEI... (and EII)
    Can you trace the intuitive process that lead you to this conclusion? I'm curious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    @BFGDoomer
    Return of the IEI... (and EII)
    Can you trace the intuitive process that lead you to this conclusion? I'm curious.
    The poem, your general goofiness and expressive tone, unsure about interests/passivity (young Ni maybe?), self-awareness/''out of place, poetical'', probing communication (seen a few times in chat i think).
    I just would think it unlikely for a logical type to introduce themselves with a poem tbh, though i may be clouded by some stereotype that i can't see. Do you currently type as anything, or have a few types you consider? No ILI people i know have that flighty, slightly fluctuating social impression that you make on here to me at least. I will say again that it is a very vague, misty image i have of these typings, so don't take them as any sort of authority, only as perspective. You remind me of my IEE sister, which inevitably steers my conclusion in a specific way (as socionics as an interpretive model for personhood or personaliy will make one do). This contradicts my view of you as a Fe-valuer, but IEE do have strong Fe.
    Last edited by para; 08-04-2018 at 09:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGDoomer View Post
    The poem, your general goofiness and expressive tone, unsure about interests/passivity (young Ni maybe?), self-awareness/''out of place, poetical'', probing communication (seen a few times in chat i think).
    I just would think it likely for a logical type to introduce themselves with a poem tbh, though i may be clouded by some stereotype that i can't see. Do you currently type as anything, or have a few types you consider? No ILI people i know have that flighty, slightly fluctuating social impression that you make on here to me at least. I will say again that it is a very vague, misty image i have of these typings, so don't take them as any sort of authority, only as perspective. You remind me of my IEE sister, which inevitably steers my conclusion in a specific way (as socionics as an interpretive model for personhood or personaliy will make one do). This contradicts my view of you as a Fe-valuer, but IEE do have strong Fe.
    I'm quite interested in how I look to others because I lack a sense of awarness about it.
    My tone is expressive? Interesting... I think I can see it... hmm...
    The fun thing about a poem is : no one exactly know what the hell I'm talking about. Interpretations.

    I sure don't value Fe and can't understand emotional atmosphere at all, Ni lead is what I can see myself best in, with weak Te.
    I'm really unsure of what to do with myself... and other people...
    I'm not closed to considering other types, yet people who seem forceful about their vision get on my nerves quickly. I am not talking about you here.

    Attachment 13660
    Here is a screenshot I took a while ago, which says ILIs are goofy, and where they are not called assholes. I forgot where I took it... : /

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    Quote Originally Posted by aster View Post
    I could see you being ILI, Ni subtype @NothernRose. You definitely seem introverted to me at least.

    I also think you're pretty interesting and cool. Just thought I'd add that in there. I enjoy reading your poetic evil posts... So hi.
    Wow, thank you.

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    .
    Last edited by 0i0; 09-16-2018 at 09:33 AM.

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    @Kara
    As you said here, your cautiousness and need for privacy resonates more with my view of EII than IEI. But, you're own observations of both what you think that you don't communicate, and the people you like/dislike, trumps my impression of you (as it should). You seem very polite, laid back, cautious, less 'self-observing' than the standard description of IEI. As useless as it may sound, you 'vibed' FiNe to me, lol. But reading your thread again, it could go either way for sure. And if you're sure that you aren't EII, then me, not being you, can't really produce any statements of authority on the matter. Hope this helps just a little, and good luck on the typing!

    @NorthernRose
    Well, good luck anyways.
    It's worth noting that 'inert' subtypes experience less emphasis/weakened effort on the creative function. I have more than a few times thought myself IXI because of this claim.
    Have you considered an intuitive subtype of XII? I don't feel like i fit 'snugly' into any type, because i'm very idiosyncratic both in how i internally assess myself, information and knowledge, but also how i appear to others. But the 'core' resonated most with LII. I think it's important to realize that all people's internal models (unrelated to socionics) are fundamentally 'theirs', and communication of an unified system that is applied both inside and outside will make people interpret it in wildly different ways. I had to *really* analyze how i experienced myself internally and externally to come to the LII conclusion, and with the more concrete, 'how-to-apply-theory-formally' help from the very nice forum members here. Because of it having to be communicated, the descriptions of cognition are simplified and conceptualized, so relf-recognition needs interpretation. Socionics, as many other things, functions as human interpretation of reality, it may or may not be absolute, but it is more or less there for pragmatic reasons. Describing types by trends in people is only indicative of our common perception, just like 1+1=2 is a pragmatic, interpretive statement. We see a consistency in how we percieve the world, and so we accept it as true. A metre is useful to us, doesn't make it real.

    So, to sum up, Socionics tells us more about how we see systems as a whole, and how we collectively and individually address 'how people work' than about people themselves. A concept is making inequal things equal, which is what systems try to do.

    So, don't stress it, it's a fun little thing to try and figure out.

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    @BFGDoomer
    I'm just confused by your post... not sure what you're talking about?
    Why good luck?
    ... It seems to me you think I'm struggling with this? .-.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    Wow, thank you.
    your possible activator
    as mb noticed, she activates you to create more of "poetic evil posts"

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    @Sol

    Here is a friend of mine. She is tested as EII and probably is EII just based on our long term interactions.

    Oh, and she is single. ;->

    10476257_10152538965126788_6229559450379013341_n.jpg1412806_10152034534071788_1653414942_o.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    @BFGDoomer
    I'm just confused by your post... not sure what you're talking about?
    Why good luck?
    ... It seems to me you think I'm struggling with this? .-.
    What is 'this' that you think i think you're struggling with? I'm not sure how you got that out of my post... I wished you good luck because i hope something valuable to you comes out of your interest in socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    She is tested as EII and probably is EII just based on our long term interactions.
    the impression of possible alpha F

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGDoomer View Post
    The poem, your general goofiness and expressive tone, unsure about interests/passivity (young Ni maybe?), self-awareness/''out of place, poetical'', probing communication (seen a few times in chat i think).
    I just would think it likely for a logical type to introduce themselves with a poem tbh, though i may be clouded by some stereotype that i can't see. Do you currently type as anything, or have a few types you consider? No ILI people i know have that flighty, slightly fluctuating social impression that you make on here to me at least. I will say again that it is a very vague, misty image i have of these typings, so don't take them as any sort of authority, only as perspective. You remind me of my IEE sister, which inevitably steers my conclusion in a specific way (as socionics as an interpretive model for personhood or personaliy will make one do). This contradicts my view of you as a Fe-valuer, but IEE do have strong Fe.
    Surely you mean "unlikely".

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Surely you mean "unlikely".
    Yes, thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGDoomer View Post
    What is 'this' that you think i think you're struggling with? I'm not sure how you got that out of my post... I wished you good luck because i hope something valuable to you comes out of your interest in socionics.
    "This" as in self typing.
    There are people that when they talk/write, it's like a language I don't know... I have this impression with you...
    I spent most of my life around Fe egos, I propably try to interpret stuff... and end up with bullshit anyway. Lol.

    By the time I started considering logical types, I knew functions enough to not see me at all in Ti, so I never considered LXI. The type description is 50% or so.
    An irrational piece of garbage like me as rational? What a joke. xD
    I'm not much for systems and technical terms. I know them and use them as little as possible.

    This place is helping me accept my Te actually, so that's great.
    Looking for something valuable in socionics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    "This" as in self typing.
    There are people that when they talk/write, it's like a language I don't know... I have this impression with you...
    I spent most of my life around Fe egos, I propably try to interpret stuff... and end up with bullshit anyway. Lol.

    By the time I started considering logical types, I knew functions enough to not see me at all in Ti, so I never considered LXI. The type description is 50% or so.
    An irrational piece of garbage like me as rational? What a joke. xD
    I'm not much for systems and technical terms. I know them and use them as little as possible.

    This place is helping me accept my Te actually, so that's great.
    Looking for something valuable in socionics?
    Yeah, like if it's for fun, or for relationships, or for self-analysis. Why do you find socionics interesting? I think it has more of a casual interest to me.

    Don't worry about the not understanding me thing, i come off to many as quite lost in my own bubble when it comes to communications of interest (i'm also not a native English speaker, so that muddles it even further). I tend to develop many of my own neologisms and ways of creating meaning with words independent of the 'normal way' of explicitly phrasing things to yourself when thinking lol. I've even been a little paranoid of my use of this '', because i am afraid my posts will be taken for something else when i'm not using them. Fe suggestive maybe.

    In regards to your type, i still don't think you're ILI. I don't think a Fe PoLR would have quite the same 'aura' as you, you use a lot of smileys. Of course you know yourself better than i do, and communication over the internet tends to filter more than what is desirable when trying to analyse someone on their personality and fit it into a rigid model.

    Also, not being much for technical terms i think is more unvalued Te than Ti, but i could be mistaken. It depends on the meaning of 'technical'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGDoomer View Post
    Yeah, like if it's for fun, or for relationships, or for self-analysis. Why do you find socionics interesting? I think it has more of a casual interest to me.

    Don't worry about the not understanding me thing, i come off to many as quite lost in my own bubble when it comes to communications of interest (i'm also not a native English speaker, so that muddles it even further). I tend to develop many of my own neologisms and ways of creating meaning with words independent of the 'normal way' of explicitly phrasing things to yourself when thinking lol. I've even been a little paranoid of my use of this '', because i am afraid my posts will be taken for something else when i'm not using them. Fe suggestive maybe.

    In regards to your type, i still don't think you're ILI. I don't think a Fe PoLR would have quite the same 'aura' as you, you use a lot of smileys. Of course you know yourself better than i do, and communication over the internet tends to filter more than what is desirable when trying to analyse someone on their personality and fit it into a rigid model.

    Also, not being much for technical terms i think is more unvalued Te than Ti, but i could be mistaken. It depends on the meaning of 'technical'.
    I wonder... why bother with socionics? I'm unsure actually, I find personality interesting and mbti too loose.

    I think we don't share valued function, and my first language is french so we are equal on this.

    I use smileys to a fault, because that's how I learned to chat years ago, I used to collect them on MSN. I know it can be distressing for others when there are none and I get more answers when I use some. It's a habit. Sometimes, I wonder about keeping it or not, but meh.

    I can be annoying about having the right word, or technical terms in things that feels technical. I don't think the human mind is that technical and I often find types to be limitations of the whole of a person.
    Not having an ILI aura is something I find limitating, as if I want to be believed in my type, I'd have to act the part.
    My Te is bad, but my Fe is even worst.
    Te does not exhaust me, manuvering in emotional atmosphere makes me feel like I'm going around a landmine field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    the impression of possible alpha F
    She does not behave like any Alpha F I have ever met...

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    ^ can you describe her? like, uh, 10 sentences, maybe 15.
    I'll list some traits.

    Creative thinker (writing, poetry, conceptual ideas a bit more important than aesthetics in her art)
    "Deep" - lots behind the curtain
    Homebody, very private
    Romantically idealistic, high standards for a partner, but also willing to move across the world for love
    Married and divorced an INFp in her 20's - they ended up having surprisingly horrible fights
    Open-minded in theory but in actuality quite set in her ways
    Fascinated by the metaphysical and comes across a bit mysterious to those who don't know her
    Hardworking but not interested in "moving up" in her career - job is a means to pay the bills and write poetry, etc.
    Knows how to relax, needs lots of downtime
    Needs somebody else from the outside to help her lighten up a bit
    Family, pets very important
    Although she has her shit together (apartment, job, pets, etc.) she is kind of childlike in that she is extremely self focused (this is not perfectly illustrative but kind of a funny thing: once she drew a picture of me as a gift, but it actually looked almost exactly like her...)
    Likes to have a variety of friends in her pocket with different personalities, likes to observe conversations other people are having, people watch
    Holds a grudge if deeply hurt by someone
    Interesting sense of style

    I might be missing a few things but I think that's a good representation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    She does not behave like any Alpha F I have ever met...
    Evaluation of a behavior is also subjective. Typing matches are below 50%.

    You may notice with which types she has more similarity by my bloggers examples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Evaluation of a behavior is also subjective. Typing matches are below 50%.

    You may notice with which types she has more similarity by my bloggers examples.
    I just took a look at your blogger examples. In real life she does not come across as those you have typed as Alpha SF. Maybe a superficial similarity with SEI but once they start talking she is very different.

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    lol DCNH is something other people tell you, as far as I can tell. trying to declare your own DCNH is like declaring yourself an elected position. it is something that is dynamically negotiated by behavioral interactions.. although of course someone can reflect on their own interactions and try to reconstruct what happened and abstract out a DCNH, but its like I don't really view myself from the 3rd person like that. its hard for me to really know what role i take in the eyes of others. I suspect I take on a D role on socionics since I seem to take over any discussion, but its not because I intend to, its because I'm just really into socionics and try hard to say what I mean

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    lol whatever, this thread is about me now. Gulenko says you can have add-ons to DCNH so like Tolstoy was creative with a R (Fi) add on, and a SEE base type (I think?) which is a really unique combination, but Tolstoy was also a genius, so he's a good example of high IQ thrown into the mix with all of that as well... when you consider so many variables you start to end up with "a map the size of the world", which is to say at some point someone is just assigned such a unique combination of functions to represent their personality we might as well just use their name and call it done... a lot of how I thought about socionics was based on my initial assumptions built into what I was thinking when I first encountered socionics, and I see a lot of those are stereotypes that are only partly true at best. For example I assumed because I felt like I never communicated well with my parents we were from different quadra. I also thought that because I always felt like my mom was overly dramatic she must be EIE (actually, on day1 I typed her IEI but the important thing is the image of beta ethical I had). And that since ideology was associated with beta (she's both religiously and politically active) that confirmed it. But I see now its far more complicated than that, and that if you try to immediately apply socionics to your understanding of your past relationships you're almost invariably going to build in assumptions that color the theory and taint the result in some way or another. But I also think this process is necessary, because you need some kind of experience to link socionics to, otherwise its this theory in the air and its hard to know what the hell they're talking about at all. Like everyone has their own personal sense of what intuition is like, what feeling is like, and so on. They have to bring that to the table to even get in the door. So its somewhat inevitable, especially since we have a real lack of experts who will mentor and guide people and are relying on machine translations and so forth, thus socionics becomes a process of guess and check, and over time maybe you refine it into something approximating the truth or if not the truth a consistent way of looking at the world that produces results in the form of mutual understanding as opposed to misunderstanding (in short, you begin to make it work). As to my own type, I tend to think I'm some form of rational intuitive creative. Dynamic too, which leaves EIE LIE. After being in law school for a while I also realize I'm way more emotional than other people. This only became apparent to me once I saw a large group of people reason in a way I found entirely foreign to my own way of "thinking." But I never got the impression (except in isolated cases) either was particularly "irrational" per se. I don't get the feeling I'm irrational but I think everyone is irrational in some sense. I think rational/irrational is almost a meaningless dichotomy when trying to interpret one's own experience because its like once again, how would you ever truly know what the other is like, if its really so different. A rational type can conclude Im rational because I think Im rational and thats a rational thing to say. An Irrational can conclude Im irrational because I doubt Im rational because how do I know what the hell is going on. On the other hand an Irrational can believe they're rational because in admitting the world is irrational that is itself a rational box they've drawn around the world. A rational can believe they're irrational because they concede the world itself is constantly in flux and that seems so self evident they must be irrational, but perhaps its just a rational fact that is causing them to concede an irrational truth. The bottom line is once you get into rationality/irrationality you have arrived at what is called an antinomy. This may be one of those things that is more susceptible to Te than Ti and is for the environment to judge and a concession should be made the objective standpoint because it seems intractable to the subjective one

    one thing I always liked about Gulenko was he spied out Hegel as EIE and said his thinking was not so much logical as Ni--he spotted the contradictions and watched them play out over time. When I was in school in history of philosophy I remember immediately not liking Hegel, because I had it in my head he was opposed to Kierkegaard and I already thought Kierkegaard was an ethical hero/good guy, but at the same time I recognized that what Hegel was saying was true in a way that I deeply believed was the case and there was no way to get out of it but not in a bad way (I never perceived it as an attack on values). Now Kierkegaard manages to make Hegel look foolish, but only from a certain side. In a certain sense Hegel and K need eachother and are more like brothers. I think even K would concede that. In any event, at first I prejudiced Hegel negatively, but he stuck in my head because of the force of what he said. Later I took a course at a totally different school with an entirely different, more scholastic, approach on Kant Fichte and Hegel and despite wanting to apply Nietzsche and Kierkegaard in order to explode them at every turn, I realized there was something deeply valuable and true in each of their philosophies... my point with all of this is that Hegel is seen as a genius and therefore associated with thinking, but I think thinking geniuses are different and Tolstoy was an ethical genius in a more "social" sense, whereas K and H were geniuses in an ethical "humanitarian" sense, and that none of them were thinking egos, although they were all cases of high intelligence. Thinking geniuses to me seem to be STEM types, which is something of a stereotype but I think it flows not from stereotyping these people but actually generating the categories around their very achievements in recognition of them. By this I mean they're not thinking geniuses because they're STEM, the major individual achievements in STEM are products of thinking geniuses as a base proposition. These are thinking fields by their nature, in other words, and they are sufficiently sophisticated and competitive that you don't revolutionize them from your weak side. That's just not how it works, despite however we may feel about that. This "you can do whatever you want" shit in modern society has not been true in my experience, once you start talking about very high levels of achievement, and I think we unwittingly disorient kids by presenting them with too many possibilities inherent in that way of thinking, but I digress...

    I also want to say that an ego is a very narrow thing actually. Not being a thinking ego does not mean that you're not thinking, its that its subconscious and has to be brought into focus otherwise it runs in the background. Thus to be dominated by thinking is actually a very alien process to me when I consider the full implications of such a thing
    Last edited by Bertrand; 08-05-2018 at 05:28 AM.

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    I don't think Gulenko is applying a (base, accent, DCNH) third type quantifier if thats what you mean, I think he builds in any accentuations to DCNH, so its not like SEE-Fi (C), that is a 16types invention. its more like SEE (FIER). So its like hes a C type, but not really because its more than that. DCNH is just the basic 4 way split but within it lies every possible combination, but its always viewed in terms of social role. To say SEE-Fi reverts back to modifying the base type and I don't think that was Gulenko's intent. At least it doesn't make sense for him to do that in the context of an article on DCNH without making it clear he was at some point deviating from DCNH. in other words base type and DCNH are separate and modifications go to DCNH not base when using DCNH. he keeps base type "clean" in this sense which I really like, because it draws attention to the fact that base type is often inscrutable and thus not worth toying with, when its across social manifestation all apparent distortions occur anyway, so if we're going to judge from such a view lets keep it consistent straightforward and relatively simple--it creates a core/shell system and assigns accents to the shell, which is elegant given the limitations on what we can possibly know and perceive at this time

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    in theory the base type has all sorts of idiosyncrasies. the primary/secondary thing is actually a way to categorically divide the 4 subtypes into 8 (and ultimately 16), but it all goes back to gulenko's earlier work in a person having two types and a relationship between them. note: this goes back even further to Kierkegaard's famously opaque statement on the self (note: this predates Freud and Jung, and is a statement of profound genius).. anyway, what happens is you have 2 types: core (base) and "shell", shell can be anything and so can base, and its the relationship between the two (super-ego, conflict, duality, business, identity, etc) that constitutes your real relationship to yourself, which is where the self really lies: the dynamic between ego and super ego (core and shell). the transcendent function is the function that arises out of the tension inherent to the relationship and resolves the contradictions and in doing so progresses the self

    Gulenko simplified this into DCNH, so we're viewing it from the side of this having already occurred, I think you could slice this a few different ways, one is to declare the 2 types and "DCNH" emerges as a consequence (I use scare quotes though because at that point all the real work has been done). you could derive that relationship by manipulating either side, but I think it just becomes a difficulty in accurately and expediently seeing through the shell, in the final analysis. with the whole map of the world thing, and all the possibilities and ways to slice it, I think Gulenko made a decision calculated to simplify what is an underlying complex dynamic that could potentially described in many (arguably better/more accurate) ways. its easier just to tie it to social manifestation rather than try to calculate it from the ground up (in this way social manifestation does some of the heavy lifting)... He actually talks about this somewhere, saying this is what is holding socionics up, the differences over precisely these sorts of issues, trying to reach a kind of theoretical perfection. a lot of what I see in that reddit comment is a slide into decompressing it again, which is interesting for the enthusiasts but probably not what Gulenko is intending. in essence, there are reasons for why Gulenko is doing what he's doing now, and its not that it couldn't be done another way, or indeed that he himself didn't do it another way in the past

    I think it sort of makes sense for "important figures in history" to be both a type and be glamorized and be Fe, because its like an "occupation" in some abstract categorical sense, a life's work if you will, with certain distinct features, and glamour and Fe and the "pivotal historical figure" all go together. It actually has a nice roundness to it. Although it does feel super arrogant to identify with this type, its actually kind of suicidal, which is what I think gives it its punching power, in a metaphorical sense. I think LIE occupies a similar position in American culture, so you have people that identify with the type in an aspirational sense, which I think is just a way of using typology as wish fulfillment, which is like, probably an indicator of creative intuition and therefore weirdly correct, although who knows really
    Last edited by Bertrand; 08-05-2018 at 07:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    I'll list some traits.

    Creative thinker (writing, poetry, conceptual ideas a bit more important than aesthetics in her art)
    "Deep" - lots behind the curtain
    Homebody, very private
    Romantically idealistic, high standards for a partner, but also willing to move across the world for love
    Married and divorced an INFp in her 20's - they ended up having surprisingly horrible fights
    Open-minded in theory but in actuality quite set in her ways
    Fascinated by the metaphysical and comes across a bit mysterious to those who don't know her
    Hardworking but not interested in "moving up" in her career - job is a means to pay the bills and write poetry, etc.
    Knows how to relax, needs lots of downtime
    Needs somebody else from the outside to help her lighten up a bit
    Family, pets very important
    Although she has her shit together (apartment, job, pets, etc.) she is kind of childlike in that she is extremely self focused (this is not perfectly illustrative but kind of a funny thing: once she drew a picture of me as a gift, but it actually looked almost exactly like her...)
    Likes to have a variety of friends in her pocket with different personalities, likes to observe conversations other people are having, people watch
    Holds a grudge if deeply hurt by someone
    Interesting sense of style

    I might be missing a few things but I think that's a good representation.
    This list + pics: Fe PoLR? SLI>ILI?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BFGDoomer View Post
    Yeah, like if it's for fun, or for relationships, or for self-analysis. Why do you find socionics interesting? I think it has more of a casual interest to me.

    Don't worry about the not understanding me thing, i come off to many as quite lost in my own bubble when it comes to communications of interest (i'm also not a native English speaker, so that muddles it even further). I tend to develop many of my own neologisms and ways of creating meaning with words independent of the 'normal way' of explicitly phrasing things to yourself when thinking lol. I've even been a little paranoid of my use of this '', because i am afraid my posts will be taken for something else when i'm not using them. Fe suggestive maybe.

    In regards to your type, i still don't think you're ILI. I don't think a Fe PoLR would have quite the same 'aura' as you, you use a lot of smileys. Of course you know yourself better than i do, and communication over the internet tends to filter more than what is desirable when trying to analyse someone on their personality and fit it into a rigid model.

    Also, not being much for technical terms i think is more unvalued Te than Ti, but i could be mistaken. It depends on the meaning of 'technical'.
    I've seen ILIs do this kind of irony stuff she's doing. @NorthernRose

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    This list + pics: Fe PoLR? SLI>ILI?
    SLI wouldn’t surprise me but she tested EII. Obviously tests are flawed. Sometimes I have a hard time telling between EII and SLI (I go back and forth on my husband’s type in exactly this way).

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    can you pick apart each line and attribute them to fe polr, sli, ili?
    A lot of the list is just introversion. Things tipping the impression towards SLI over EII:
    -bad Fe: being extremely self focused, not being good at lightening up others
    -Ip-ish features (relaxation, looking mysterious)
    -being low on Ne (open-minded not by default even if may be open to Ne from others?)
    -possible Fi HA with a focus on Fi themes (about relating to love, family/pets, deep grudge) along with bad Fe
    -photo looked more present and colder than EIIs

    For ILI:
    -the conceptual ideas + the interest in the metaphysical, though SLI can play with Ne sometimes

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    that was a good list for an EII imo, but it could fit other introverts, SLIs are less metaphysical and withdrawn, the low drive for a job rank could be a low valued Se thing, the need to relax another hint to valued Si.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    I'll list some traits.

    Creative thinker (writing, poetry, conceptual ideas a bit more important than aesthetics in her art)
    "Deep" - lots behind the curtain
    Homebody, very private
    Romantically idealistic, high standards for a partner, but also willing to move across the world for love
    Married and divorced an INFp in her 20's - they ended up having surprisingly horrible fights
    Open-minded in theory but in actuality quite set in her ways
    Fascinated by the metaphysical and comes across a bit mysterious to those who don't know her
    Hardworking but not interested in "moving up" in her career - job is a means to pay the bills and write poetry, etc.
    Knows how to relax, needs lots of downtime
    Needs somebody else from the outside to help her lighten up a bit
    Family, pets very important
    Although she has her shit together (apartment, job, pets, etc.) she is kind of childlike in that she is extremely self focused (this is not perfectly illustrative but kind of a funny thing: once she drew a picture of me as a gift, but it actually looked almost exactly like her...)
    Likes to have a variety of friends in her pocket with different personalities, likes to observe conversations other people are having, people watch
    Holds a grudge if deeply hurt by someone
    Interesting sense of style

    I might be missing a few things but I think that's a good representation.
    This list isn't particularly distinctive but I would guess ILI or IEI. Possibly even LII

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    @crAck, if I were an LSE, we'd be living in an alternate universe where Bertrand has a girlfriend, dogs talk and birds have human pets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @crAck, if I were an LSE, we'd be living in an alternate universe where Bertrand has a girlfriend, dogs talk and birds have human pets.
    Do you and Bert really hate each others that much or is that some weird friendship thing I don't understand? .-.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    Do you and Bert really hate each others that much or is that some weird friendship thing I don't understand? .-.
    my opinion on adam is he's a dopey goofball who misrepresents the nature of socionics to anyone who will listen so I like to call him out every chance I get. inasmuch as it gives my life purpose you could say I love him

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthernRose View Post
    Do you and Bert really hate each others that much or is that some weird friendship thing I don't understand? .-.
    And I'm hoping that someday Bertrand meets the dual of his dreams who will make all his dreams come true.

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    Welp, thanks for the answer guys... xD

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    Rough n tumble

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