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Thread: Your typing of forum members

  1. #1921
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chakram View Post
    Questionnaires are more indicative of a possible typing imo. If videos are used for the information that someone says they can potentially be useful, if used for typing by VI they are completely useless.
    While I can understand people saying that individuals can obfuscate their own type, presenting what they want to be seen, and flattering themselves and so forth (and that VI can 'look past' what is said and see the essential), I still think VI should only be reliably trusted from the extremely savvy. Any novice or even moderately familiar person is likely going to cause faaaar more confusion than clarity. There are clearly visual differences between the extremities of Introversion and Extroversion, but beyond some basic superficial details, I think that VI should be left to the deeply knowledgeable. The wrong answer is far worse than no answer at all.
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    VI skills are something you only brag about when you have 15+ years / 60 hours per week of professional Socionics experience. I made up the numbers, but you get the point.
    I never realized how many idiots there were until I logged on to the Internet. -- Edsger Dijkstra, Dutch Computer Scientist and pioneer in network communication (possibly apocryphal)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous Lynx View Post
    While I can understand people saying that individuals can obfuscate their own type, presenting what they want to be seen, and flattering themselves and so forth (and that VI can 'look past' what is said and see the essential), I still think VI should only be reliably trusted from the extremely savvy. Any novice or even moderately familiar person is likely going to cause faaaar more confusion than clarity. There are clearly visual differences between the extremities of Introversion and Extroversion, but beyond some basic superficial details, I think that VI should be left to the deeply knowledgeable. The wrong answer is far worse than no answer at all.
    I think its more like there's supervision rings over who sees past who and Se is in a superior vantage point some of the time, in those cases they can do what the supervisee tries to do but at a glance, sometimes this entails VI. Gulenko has actually worked out the entire chain in a giant game of rock paper scissors. for example it may be possible SLE sees, at a glance, what LII spends an inordinate amount of time trying to articulate. Same goes for SEE and EII. there is also always a form of reverse supervision that slows the supervisor down and entails useful information that perhaps got "cut out" in the rush to a result. I think this is the basis for a lot of the successes and failures of VI and its mixed reputation

  4. #1924
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous Lynx View Post
    My Mother is an ESE.
    You and everyone else

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    My mom is ILI so she’s the conflictor of everybody else’s mom
    LSI: I still cant figure out Pinterest.

    Me: Its just, like, idea boards.

    LSI: I dont have ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    Are you sure you're not just trying to come up with an excuse for why your mom is a bitch?
    She’s not really a bitch—I’m the bigger bitch in that race—so I’m sure yeah.
    LSI: I still cant figure out Pinterest.

    Me: Its just, like, idea boards.

    LSI: I dont have ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    Yes, everyones mothers videos.
    Of anyone whose type was said as an argument. Only so we may check it to trust and then to use it. In other case, especially when types are said by random people on the forum, - it's too doubtful. due to <20-30% of average typing match...

    sad but true
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    not exactly
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chakram View Post
    Questionnaires are more indicative of a possible typing imo.
    Normal typing happens IRL or by video and uses _both_ types of data - common behavioral and nonverbal. More important is that with both kinds of the information the higher chance to get the correct type, than that some typer likes some information more for typing or has better skills with it. You give typing material and then typers may use it how they like - videos are universal and give the both information. It's not reasonable to limit the useful typing info about yourself - this happens when only questionnaires are given. So your words in this context are senseless.

    The big problem of questionnaires and interviews - people who know the theory may falsificate the info, as often people prefer to have some types. this may happen nonintentionally. I saw the examples. You'll never understand by a questionnaire is that real or not. While to falsificate good nonverbal to other type is doubtful.

    The problem of nonverbal typing - it's not developed. mb I even was the 1st who described this as a method. and seems was the 1st who experimentally have proved it is effective (my experiment of 2015 year with youtube bloggers on socioforum; it gave matches much higher than random and close to questionnaires matches) - it was correctly done experiment when typers did not know the opinions of other ones, with normal info like video but not a couple of photos, with statistical basis. Some people still think VI as nothing, but there is clear a proof it's useful since 2015 year.
    Before me typers described associations and feelings and they never described this as method of typing, never used it as main. I've pointed on nonverbal behavior as the source of that feelings. Also there were heretics who typed by form of the bodies and someones still think that typing by visual data is physiognomy. In English world thanks to Ganin for this misleading. MBT followers may laugh about Socionics just because of what Ganin does.

    > if used for typing by VI they are completely useless

    Videos are useful for typing by VI, first of all. Though they may to have other info too. They'll be completely useless for typing only in case of completely bad skills in VI. Improve your typing skills and you'll notice better results.

    That nonverbal as method gives useful for typing information is proved by typing matches significantly higher than random (average match was 15-20% in my experiment). My experience of the method gives me good results of prediction of peoples behavior. If this not happens with your usage of the method - the problem is in you, not in the method.
    Also initial IR effects work through nonverbal. You may easily notice them yourself in communicating with people IRL. They appear as your brain feels types traits in nonverbal of people. Your are using nonverbal for assuming peoples traits, including types related ones. Want you this or not, and despite what you think about all that. In your case the problem is that your type is not clear or mb wrong, so to distinguish IR effects from other factors is doubtful until you'll understand correctly the types of you and of other ones. I suppose your negativism to nonverbal typing is due the situation that it was hard to say clearly _your_ type by video. But it's not such for many other cases. Your video at least helped me to reject some types for you. While in questionnaires people may write just anything, unlike with types related nonverbal. And they write "anything" following wrong self perceptions and predispositions about own types. They easily fool themselves and others by questionnaires. By nonverbal they are doubtful to do this. You baselessly spread own personal experience on the general situation with the method.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

  10. #1930
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Normal typing happens IRL or by video and uses _both_ types of data - common behavioral and nonverbal. More important is that with both kinds of the information the higher chance to get the correct type, than that some typer likes some information more for typing or has better skills with it. You give typing material and then typers may use it how they like - videos are universal and give the both information. It's not reasonable to limit the useful typing info about yourself - this happens when only questionnaires are given. So your words in this context are senseless.

    The big problem of questionnaires and interviews - people who know the theory may falsificate the info, as often people prefer to have some types. this may happen nonintentionally. I saw the examples. You'll never understand by a questionnaire is that real or not. While to falsificate good nonverbal to other type is doubtful.

    The problem of nonverbal typing - it's not developed. mb I even was the 1st who described this as a method. and seems was the 1st who experimentally have proved it is effective (my experiment of 2015 year with youtube bloggers on socioforum; it gave matches much higher than random and close to questionnaires matches) - it was correctly done experiment when typers did not know the opinions of other ones, with normal info like video but not a couple of photos, with statistical basis. Some people still think VI as nothing, but there is clear a proof it's useful since 2015 year.
    Before me typers described associations and feelings and they never described this as method of typing, never used it as main. I've pointed on nonverbal behavior as the source of that feelings. Also there were heretics who typed by form of the bodies and someones still think that typing by visual data is physiognomy. In English world thanks to Ganin for this misleading. MBT followers may laugh about Socionics just because of what Ganin does.

    > if used for typing by VI they are completely useless

    Videos are useful for typing by VI, first of all. Though they may to have other info too. They'll be completely useless for typing only in case of completely bad skills in VI. Improve your typing skills and you'll notice better results.

    That nonverbal as method gives useful for typing information is proved by typing matches significantly higher than random (average match was 15-20% in my experiment). My experience of the method gives me good results of prediction of peoples behavior. If this not happens with your usage of the method - the problem is in you, not in the method.
    Also initial IR effects work through nonverbal. You may easily notice them yourself in communicating with people IRL. They appear as your brain feels types traits in nonverbal of people. Your are using nonverbal for assuming peoples traits, including types related ones. Want you this or not, and despite what you think about all that. In your case the problem is that your type is not clear or mb wrong, so to distinguish IR effects from other factors is doubtful until you'll understand correctly the types of you and of other ones. I suppose your negativism to nonverbal typing is due the situation that it was hard to say clearly _your_ type by video. But it's not such for many other cases. Your video at least helped me to reject some types for you. While in questionnaires people may write just anything, unlike with types related nonverbal. And they write "anything" following wrong self perceptions and predispositions about own types. They easily fool themselves and others by questionnaires. By nonverbal they are doubtful to do this. You baselessly spread own personal experience on the general situation with the method.
    While I do think that some nonverbal cues may be more pronounced in one type than another, 15-20% does not show this as being a reliable method for typing.

    It also cannot be my usage of the method because I do not use it. From various video typing/ VI threads (my own included) on this site, I have seen that it is very clearly not reliable. Information can be falsified in a questionnaire yes, as mannerisms can be replicated or interpreted incorrectly, whether intentional or not.

    Until it can be developed to a point of actual reliability and also past people's own biases for nonverbal cues that a certain type is disposed towards, I do not think it should be taken into consideration.

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    @Chakram
    the main idea: if something does not work good at you or other one - this does not mean it's bad tool itself. study to use something, then it will work better

    by stats:
    average typing match is <20% - it's about today typing methods in general - was gotten in IRL interview experiment in 1999. and it's close to what gave pure usage of nonverbal method by random forum dudes by bloggers clips. your lovely questionnaire (large one, by Eglit) gave close to that match too - special typing questionnaire vs random clips, harder efforts and longer analysis vs short time impressions -> the similar results
    it's how "bad" nonverbal method is on practice in general, compared to questionnaires or interviews

    use the reasonable basis - theoretical or experimental to think about something
    to remove VI is nonsense based on the known subjectively and objectively after my VI experiment. it's the part of useful data and methods
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Sol is particularly thick-skulled it seems. I was ok to go with his self-typing of LSE at first, but now i'm no longer certain, LSI is a possibility.

    I have been very pestered by him lately, maybe it is type related.
    "Inasmuch as it is nothing but pure communicability, every face, even the most noble and beautiful, is always suspended on the edge of an abyss"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delilah View Post
    Sol is particularly thick-skulled it seems. I was ok to go with his self-typing of LSE at first, but now i'm no longer certain, LSI is a possibility.

    I have been very pestered by him lately, maybe it is type related.
    Yah that's kind of unhealthy version of behaviour of Ti lead + Se creative I think.

    Or going outside Socionics, it also sounds like obsessive-compulsive personality disorder / unhealthy E1 in Enneagram.


    PS: I don't hate @Sol or anything like that, I just think he has a lot that he will need to fix about himself. That's why I call him out on stuff sometimes.

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    Yeah lets all gang up on one guy for his wrongdoings so we can forget about our own

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    @Number 9 large you're ENFP now. How come?

    I'm not challenging or try to redicule - just want to understand your reasoning

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Yeah lets all gang up on one guy for his wrongdoings so we can forget about our own
    I'm not talking about wrongdoings. In the sense that I'm not judging his person as "bad". I'm simply giving an evaluation of his actions/behaviour in terms of what issues there are with them. But yeah sure the hard cold truth can be hard to take without making it about one's person even when not intended in that way.

    And don't jump to conclusions, it's not about forgetting other people's issues or even wrongdoings.

    As for "ganging up": apparently some elements of his behaviour got to the point where multiple people notice issues. That, if not fixed, will just lead the person the wrong way even more. And will bother others too even more.

    Lol btw you are ENFP now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    @Number 9 large you're ENFP now. How come?

    I'm not challenging or try to redicule - just want to understand your reasoning
    Cuz i love u

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Cuz i love u
    lol it's time for me to give this forum a break

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    lol it's time for me to give this forum a break

    NOOOOoooooooo! Who will be the voice of Reason around here then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    NOOOOoooooooo! Who will be the voice of Reason around here then?
    what? you two are too much
    @Number 9 large




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    Dat video

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    NOOOOoooooooo! Who will be the voice of Reason around here then?
    Ooh ooh me
    LSI: I still cant figure out Pinterest.

    Me: Its just, like, idea boards.

    LSI: I dont have ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golden View Post
    Ooh ooh me
    @golden, you are the voice of emotional reason. @Cosmic Teapot is the voice of practical reason.

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    I actually don't think Sol is someone that would genuinely loosen up in a Fe atmosphere. You can see he has a decent Fe role from his interactions in here with the other people. He reminds me of no Fi-role. I think LSE is his right type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @golden, you are the voice of emotional reason. @Cosmic Teapot is the voice of practical reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    It’s true I’m not the best at practical solutions, just average I think. Thanks for the votes of confidence and half-confidence.
    LSI: I still cant figure out Pinterest.

    Me: Its just, like, idea boards.

    LSI: I dont have ideas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    I actually don't think Sol is someone that would genuinely loosen up in a Fe atmosphere. You can see he has a decent Fe role from his interactions in here with the other people. He reminds me of no Fi-role. I think LSE is his right type.
    Well I can see how it would be hard to imagine that, he's so low on Fe lol. I don't really see Fe role tbh, he's too lost in his own opinions for that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    Yeah lets all gang up on one guy for his wrongdoings so we can forget about our own
    Spermatozoa is next, then another round of random punishment of Adam and we'll end up with Sol again. That's the order. Singu goes interleaved in each round.

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    when you put it like that social feedback sounds proper as long as it doesn't transform into pure scapegoating

    these people aren't innocent victims with no role to play in their own persecution, but neither should the crowd take it too far, and fob off their own sins onto convenient targets in a 2 birds 1 stone style maneuver

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    role fe = ultimate desire is relationships (off the top of my head: he is the forums ESI-hunter, never stops posting in that weird "recent people you met" thread).

    edit: funnily, the other relationship-obsessed person is also role fe - adam strange. i dont think he posts obsessively like Sol in that thread, but he's the forum's resident Dual-hunter (as well, if you analyze, his posts are often about relationships/his experience with them)
    I don't see that as role Fe. More like sx stuff.

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    They talk a lot about relationships openly because they rationally think the search of the dual is logically one of the most important things. They're actually rationally talking about their relationships, so it's just Te with a Fe mask, but they actually just seek Fi.

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    For me, Fe is short-term friendliness, sx-first is bad to the bone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    youre free to disagree with my definitions. note, though, that the pieces fit.
    To you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    when you put it like that social feedback sounds proper as long as it doesn't transform into pure scapegoating

    these people aren't innocent victims with no role to play in their own persecution, but neither should the crowd take it too far, and fob off their own sins onto convenient targets in a 2 birds 1 stone style maneuver
    you are my animal spirit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    For me, Fe is short-term friendliness, sx-first is bad to the bone.
    Yeah you do have clear Fe role. Like you don't stick to opinions so doggedly and instead pay a bit of attention to how some things affect people's emotions.

    (PS/Disclaimer: Ofc I know I'm guilty of that too lol, i.e. being opinionated and having low Fe. But @Sol goes to a whole new level with it )


    Quote Originally Posted by Reyne View Post
    They talk a lot about relationships openly because they rationally think the search of the dual is logically one of the most important things. They're actually rationally talking about their relationships, so it's just Te with a Fe mask, but they actually just seek Fi.
    I just don't see the Fe mask really for @Sol...
    Last edited by Myst; 07-27-2018 at 08:55 PM.

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    whether Fe is short term depends on what its blocked with and whether it entails an element of globality (either base or - signed)... the problem is "short term friendliness" is how "global friendliness" comes across to someone who only operates on the basis of short term friendliness. in other words, such a person does not always see and appreciate the globality in a more sophisticated usage of a function, where what looks like piecemeal short term applications is a systemic application of Fe to the whole world. in other words, if Hamlet is literally preoccupied with the general state of humanity in terms of emotions, it may look, as a matter of projection, that he or she turns on and off friendliness as is convenient based on who comes near, but its actually not really in their control, they literally live concern for the world, their friendliness is universal within the limits of logical possibility. that's why any "fakeness" is more a projection, as is any suspicion of on/off. what triggers it is other people, its not a role within the meaning of a role function, the role is the opposite, the short term on/off is the business logic. in other words, for some types Fe is universal friendliness and Te is short term-business thinking, whereas for others Te is universal business thinking and short term friendliness. this is what Adam meant ("for me"), but I wanted to clarify because it could create the wrong impression if his statements aren't contextualized as specifically applicable to Fe role




    Quote Originally Posted by Aki View Post
    you are my animal spirit

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    I don't think "talking about relationships" is seeking, if it is then I'm not seeking as I rarely open up about my private life. It's probably more related to sx first (as Myst has suggested before me) and I'm sp/sx. I also agree with Adam that manifests as friendliness in social situations. is more concerned with long-term relationships.

    On a side I don't think you can really tell apart from on this criteria. Anyone can be friendly and anyone can talk about or have relationships, type not withstanding. That was my whole point - the criteria being used itt to determine what is seeking is terrible.

    That said, I think Adam is LIE and Sol is some kind of beta.


  37. #1957

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    hmmm. im not sure but let's reason this out.

    if we define "+" as "immediate", i.e. as you said "short-term"

    the difference between what adam's said here and his behavior vs sol's perfectly fits

    LIE: +Fe - "short-term friendliness"
    LSE: -Fe - "far-off"

    adam is a go-getter with relationships (+Fe), whereas sol seems like some weird lech stalker/"lover from a distance" (-Fe)

    maybe my +- attributions are wrong, or my definitions are, so this doesnt actually fit then (it would be opposite, lol)
    God and from this little detail we can then determine type, wow

    Go on enjoy your rabbitholes though

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    Quote Originally Posted by crAck View Post
    enjoy your fear and rejection of Ne aka rabbitholes aka your PoLR

    i deleted the post because im done with this conversation. not that you cant quote whatever you want.
    I didn't see you deleting the post before I posted. Anyway it's not really fear lol, I just don't see the point

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    loving from a distance can be beautiful, because its the lack of expectation of reciprocity that keeps it pure, and its its asinine business logic that makes it human

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