Your typing of forum members

[Rusal]

I feel like my trouble is that I was in the MBTIsphere for so long that I have had warped ideas about what a lot of the elements are. I always associated Fe with surface/shallow emotionality and Fi with deep/intense feelings

I'll probably have people coming at me with objections for this because we're in the business of misunderstanding each other here, but this is true in as much as I can tell and it is true that the workings of Delta are not in my comfort zone. Te/Ti, Fe/Fi recognition and distinction for Betas NFs comes from continuous chafing experience with Delta STs. Fe and Ni builds such a predisposition that the psychological primordial stew of Fe/Ni NFs but quite markedly of LSIs also is a constant, timeless replay, with variations and adaptations, of this:

It's not for no reason that the questionnaire to get typed by Gulenko makes a point of asking about daydreaming. As said predisposition exists interaction with Delta STs becomes a meeting of the fairy-tale minded fools with, from their perspective, petty, ignoble, selfish Delta STs. Nobility, under any other notation, is big for Betas. It's there when they're children and no matter experiences and bruises during their lives, they never grow out of it, leaving them totally defenseless against “the real ways of the world”. That's Fe/Ni for Beta NFs: impossibility to close off ‘others’, to just live minding their own business and aptly securing their interests, thus they're the gullible, too trusting in everyday life (Deltas will probably have another take on that). To determine your type you'll have to be honest about what's brewing within: Betas NFs are anxious about everything that undermines their Fe collective and fantasies and ideals will be a projection of evil that always threatens to rear its head to attack their weak point, with a dual as equally pure as them but dexterous in ways they're not that appears when times have never seemed darker. Delta NFs being oriented at the business logic and ‘individuality’ of Fi would have a different type of fantasy world.

[Tallmo]

I feel like my trouble is that I was in the MBTIsphere for so long that I have had warped ideas about what a lot of the elements are. I always associated Fe with surface/shallow emotionality and Fi with deep/intense feelings cause that's the impression those circles always gave. It's still difficult for me to decide between the two, but your description of Fi feels much easier to relate to than others I have read before

The impression of these two functions are totally different. Fe flows towards the object and adapts to it and "comforts" it. Fi remains hidden and you only see glimpses of it. On the surface you also see a restrictive attitude towards outer emotionality, this is Fe ignoring.

Fe can be surface/shallow but that happens in unbalanced individuals. They seem to have random, labile opinions on everything. And sometimes they flip into a very cold mode when things are suddenly stripped of all value, inferior Ti.

Healthy Fe comforts the object. They have well adjusted attitudes, socially relevant. You feel accepted on a feeling level when talking to them. It's very immediate.

However, one could say that there is something shallow in Fe in itself. That's because it's based on the object. Jung's view is that objective feeling is a part of the wholeness of the psyche and life and it should be considered genuine. Like, if you come to a party with a positive, well-adjusted attitude, you talk to lots of people, and you express adjusted opinions and lit up the atmosphere of the party. Is that "shallow"? In some way one could say it is, because the adjustment of the feeling happens according to the environment, but this can be done in a genuine, balanced way, that doesn't give the impression of shallowness.

Victoria Silverstedt, ESE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHwvrSJmGxs

[Sanguine Miasma]

They had a lot in common Victoria from Sweden and Melania from Slovenia.

OK... Not exactly an inuit and a pygmy either.
They are both humans as well.


Dominant socialite (SF) types... smh.

[godslave]

However, one could say that there is something shallow in Fe in itself. That's because it's based on the object.Jung's view is that objective feeling is a part of the wholeness of the psyche and life and it should be considered genuine. Like, if you come to a party with a positive, well-adjusted attitude, you talk to lots of people, and you express adjusted opinions and lit up the atmosphere of the party. Is that "shallow"? In some way one could say it is, because the adjustment of the feeling happens according to the environment, but this can be done in a genuine, balanced way, that doesn't give the impression of shallowness.

Victoria Silverstedt, ESE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHwvrSJmGxs

I think Fe is at its very core, the manifestation of an universal language. I'm sure for instance that Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens communicated almost exclusively on that level. Way after the assimilation of neanderthal, Fe was at the basis of any contact between people of different culture and languages, so from an evolutionary standpoint one can almost say that Fe precedes Ti and the genesis of that very Fe/Ti axes is a direct consequence of FOXP2. So I think that Fe is a primal code not exclusively inherent to human beings. Paul Ekman's work has influenced me a lot as you can read !
When there was still some places on earth to discover, contact between people of different culture were made (when civilized) at the Fe level. Some gesture and onomatopes of universal meanings. Well, history has proven that after the Fe "show" comes the Se one when it came to understanding between people but I digress.

It is interesting to Add that it seems to me that Katherine Fauvre associates some facial expressions to Enneagram 6. I can't help but thinking that in fact she considers that Fe itself has to do with Fear. I think she's absolutely right in that sense. We used to "use" Fe primarily as a way to communicate a " I'm not a threat" message so "I" can interact with the group and eventually be integrated if said group is also not a threat. In fact the "manipulative" aspect of Fe could very well finds its roots there as an archaic form of persuasion. There is a reason why laughter is naturally contagious. It's part of our survival arsenal. For instance laughing is not an expected reaction to have if you wake up in the middle of the 17th century Amazonian forest surrounded by a bunch of people menacing you with their spears. But that unexpected reaction could save your life because you have Fe-ed (conjugue "to Fe" in the past !) an universal and contagious expression of friendly communication. Anyway, when we talk about Fe we tend to do it in a very sophisticated way, I like to keep things simple !

[Alive]

Fe is the external expression of every emotion you are feeling. Whether you are happy, sad, excited, subdued, annoyed, and so on is visible to people around you. Fe develops emotions and moods. Fe base types are the most talkative. Fe is judging moods and attitudes based on the dynamics of the environment and the actions and decisions of others. A bright smile and loud laugh means to an Fe base type that you are in a good mood for example. Fe also has a keen perception of the emotional atmosphere of a group. let's say you watch a soccer game and one team is losing 0:4 and everyone is already giving up, heads are focused on the ground, annoyed facial expressions etc. Fe sees that this team has low morale. Fe is almost always focused on a group environment, because it is hard to generate excitement on an individual level. Fe likes to be very expressive: bright hair in a variety of colours, many tattoes, colourful clothes. Fi is much more subdued compared to it. this is Fe in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4hr8rI8nfE

Fi on the other hand focuses on internal emotions that are not visible on the outside. there's no desire for external emotional expressions because the priority for a Fi base type is his/her own internal value system. the society you live in has a huge influence on how you express yourself, though. Some societies don't like expressive emotions at all, others like to have loud, vivid festivals where people come together for celebrations. It really depends what types are in a majority. this is Fi to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSmLhQSEqNA

[godslave]

Fe is the external expression of every emotion you are feeling. Whether you are happy, sad, excited, subdued, annoyed, and so on is visible to people around you. Fe develops emotions and moods. Fe base types are the most talkative. Fe is judging moods and attitudes based on the dynamics of the environment and the actions and decisions of others. A bright smile and loud laugh means to an Fe base type that you are in a good mood for example. Fe also has a keen perception of the emotional atmosphere of a group. let's say you watch a soccer game and one team is losing 0:4 and everyone is already giving up, heads are focused on the ground, annoyed facial expressions etc. Fe sees that this team has low morale. Fe is almost always focused on a group environment, because it is hard to generate excitement on an individual level. Fe likes to be very expressive: bright hair in a variety of colours, many tattoes, colourful clothes. Fi is much more subdued compared to it. this is Fe in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4hr8rI8nfE

Fi on the other hand focuses on internal emotions that are not visible on the outside. there's no desire for external emotional expressions because the priority for a Fi base type is his/her own internal value system. the society you live in has a huge influence how you express yourself, though. Some societies don't like expressive emotions at all, others like to have loud, vivid festivals where people come together for celebrations. It really depends what types are in a majority. this is Fi to me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSmLhQSEqNA

Sure ! That sounds like a love letter to Fe in contrast to the devalued Fi !

I was thinking that when you have a total control of Fe, the way your emotions are manifested (facial expressions, tone voice, attitudes, crying, laughing etc..) are not necessarily genuine. For instance, in Iran their are special people (sometimes Imams) of whom the task is to cry at funerals. They are professional weepers so to speak. That requires a whole lot of Fe. Of course, Fe is also required for all acting endeavors. In fact, the more Fe is developed the larger the spectrum of the acting abilities is. Actors in Hollywood who basically play themselves are not "good" actors in the sense that they can't naturally play any role. They need an academic formation or stuff like the actor studio. Incidentally that's a well known fact in the Hollywood producing "milieu". In the same way, if a high Fe person doesn't want to show his or her emotions, he or she can. I bet high Fe (and 1D Fe) are the best at the "Try not to laugh" game.

[Alive]

I'm 10x deader than the 2nd girl yet you type me IEI!!! tis unfair

yes I am aware of that. the problem is that functional developments can vary immensely from person to person. I typed you as an ILI based on your video, but on this site, you are quite expressive. you create threads about "cute boys", or about your moods. you have expressive profile pictures sometimes and so on, so Fe is not really visible on a personal level, but online. it's very tricky to spot. IEI have Ni and Fi as 4 dimensional (strongest) functions, and Fe as creative function, which is only 3 dimensional. then they also have Ti as activating function which is extremly impersonal by definition. typing in most cases is not very obvious, I just posted the video of the two women because they present such a strong contrast to prove a point I am making.

[Alive]

Sure ! That sounds like a love letter to Fe in contrast to the devalued Fi !

I was thinking that when you have a total control of Fe, the way your emotions are manifested (facial expressions, tone voice, attitudes, crying, laughing etc..) are not necessarily genuine. For instance, in Iran their are special people (sometimes Imams) of whom the task is to cry at funerals. They are professional weepers so to speak. That requires a whole lot of Fe. Of course, Fe is also required for all acting endeavors. In fact, the more Fe is developed the larger the spectrum of the acting abilities is. Actors in Hollywood who basically play themselves are not "good" actors in the sense that they can't naturally play any role. They need an academic formation or stuff like the actor studio. Incidentally that's a well known fact in the Hollywood producing "milieu". In the same way, if a high Fe person doesn't want to show his or her emotions, he or she can. I bet high Fe (and 1D Fe) are the best at the "Try not to laugh" game.

yes Fe is kinda fake in that it doesn't necessarily feel the way it expresses itself, but the aim is more about increasing the mood. compliments are a good way to do that for example. telling a person positive things can raise their mood and make their day better. I had an IEI tell me that when you go through your daily life, smiling at someone or wishing them a nice day can really save some people. "let's say the person had a really rough day and thinks about commiting suicide, by smiling at them you might have saved their life". it sounds silly when you think about it but there's also some truth to it. since Fi is always coupled to Te, their mode of thinking is much more professional, objective, neutral.

[Sanguine Miasma]

Fi by definition is not emotions but relationships guiding (like in conflicts and so on). Fe is not emotions but tendency to animate the surrounding environment or the mental landscape.

[godslave]

yes Fe is kinda fake in that it doesn't necessarily feel the way it expresses itself, but the aim is more about increasing the mood. compliments are a good way to do that for example. telling a person positive things can raise their mood and make their day better. I had an IEI tell me that when you go through your daily life, smiling at someone or wishing them a nice day can really save some people. "let's say the person had a really rough day and thinks about commiting suicide, by smiling at them you might have saved their life". it sounds silly when you think about it but there's also some truth to it. since Fi is always coupled to Te, their mode of thinking is much more professional, objective, neutral.

That's so true ! I think the impact is even more significant if the "person who had a really rough day" is also an Fe valuer ! That IEI is wise !

[Tallmo]

What if you don’t care about affecting others and you never cared about people too but you just have a lot of feelings. Is that still Fe

no. Any type has feelings. But a feeling function is a different thing.

[nifl]

What if you don’t care about affecting others and you never cared about people too but you just have a lot of feelings. Is that still Fe

Not caring about affecting others - introversion
Never cared about people - logic in general, non-valued Fi cares less about individuals and what they personally like
Having a lot of feelings - ethics
Fe is about objective, shared emotional characterization - this is good, bad etc. and expression of the appropriate emotions in relation to that
Fi is about subjective, individual emotional relation to something - i like/dislike etc. this and the consequent closening/distancing of the relation to that in accordance with the comfort/discomfort that thing gives you

[myresearch]

Alright I finished my video questionnaire

However, I spoke my native language instead of English because it's easier for me

Is it okay to upload it without translation into English and let others type me based on nonverbal signs ?

because honestly I don't trust my answers of questionnaire because my behaviours are changeable+ my answers always depends on my situation during the period of answering the questionnaire, and that's the reason why I appear in one questionnaire an intuitive, in another a sensor, in one lazy and in the other energetic (although I can say that I was very active most of my life )

It would give more accurate results with translations, but even video itself is a good material too so if you dont plan to insert any translation, just post the video imo.

[Socionics Is Not A Cult]

On video @Alive reminded me most of IEI

[myresearch]

[nifl]

@Sanguine Miasma
saw video, you seem irrational
IEX was what I thought of the most

[Aster]

@Astor

you are looking quite LSE in your pics. I can’t see you as anything else.

[Aster]

@

Astor

you are looking quite LSE in your pics. I can’t see you as anything else.

Wow. Ok

you are such an imbecile. Crazy. And a bad typer.

How dare you.

[AWellArmedCat]

@Rusal Your description of Beta fantasy worlds is definitely something I resonate with. I have a hard time not interpreting my life through the lens of fantasy, and am *very* prone to daydreaming

[AWellArmedCat]

@Tallmo Your description definitely makes me think I have valued Fe for sure. Maybe I just don't understand information elements, but I have a really hard time seeing how I could have valued Fi most of the time

[godslave]

Wow. Ok

you are such an imbecile. Crazy. And a bad typer.

How dare you.

Two days ago I thought of doing the exact same joke (quoting and making fun of myself) but I got distracted ! I guess I would have not hesitate if I was here for a little longer ( I' m still in my kinda "testing the water" phase ).

[chriscorey]

Wow. Ok

you are such an imbecile. Crazy. And a bad typer.

How dare you.

I did this on Facebook and my mom freaked out and said people would think I'm crazy. My uncle thought I was hilarious. lol

[Robert Dane Horlock]

DEAD - SLE final.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

yay dools again!

There we go. At this point it's the only type that makes sense for me. And I am sticking to it.

[nifl]

I doubt he'll type me IEI, though

[Wavebury]

I doubt he'll type me IEI, though

Never assume anything.

[Aster]

You all VI as turds

[hellohellohello]

Stirring the pot I see

[Lady Lunacy]

DEAD - SLE final.

Thank you.
Rav is supervising your ass and LIE did not fit.

[Lady Lunacy]

@Cat Lady Just read the text in your sig about what areas of typology you're seeking suggestions for. You obviously know yourself way better than I know you, but 6w5>6w7 seems likely to me. Sx is clearly your dominant instinct and sp 6 warmth is probably your instinctual "blindspot," so sx/so seems accurate.

Oh, thanks! Any reasons why w5 over w7, or is it more of a vibe based thing?

EDIT:
What's Sp warmth?
I swear I have a soft and warm side D: lol

[Miss Messy]

@moonmoony

SEI-Fe instead of ESE-Si

[Lady Lunacy]

Fi by definition is not emotions but relationships guiding (like in conflicts and so on). Fe is not emotions but tendency to animate the surrounding environment or the mental landscape.

Yes. Thank you, someone gets it.
Like so:
20220814_144932.jpg

[Lady Lunacy]

With a slight tendency toward type 7's characteristic optimism and extraversion, I suspect that 6w7s are more likely to have a rose-tinted view of others and go towards them for support and relief from anxiety/insecurity. I think that's why they're called "the buddy."

With a slight tendency toward type 5's characteristic cynicism and desire to self-isolate, I suspect that 6w5s are more likely to be pessimistic about others' intentions and feel the urge to build up walls due to the fear of being hurt or taken advantage of. I think that's why they're called "the defender."

I can't see your behavior or thought patterns, but your posts give me the impression that "the defender" is a closer fit for you. Also, you seem to have type 5's drive toward competency and independence. You frequently highlight those values in your posting.

If I recall, Chestnut and Naranjo characterize sp 6s as being the "warmth" subtype. Here, lemme find an online explanation...

"The anxiety of the Six blends with the self-preservation instinct to make fear and insecurity a theme for this cautious subtype. To feel safe, they build strong alliances and relationships with others. They are sincerely affectionate and warm-hearted in their interactions with others. They repress anger and are hesitant to share opinions, preferring to be cautious than risk mistakes."

I could be wrong, but this ^^ doesn't seem like you at all, hence my guess that it's last in your IV stacking.

Yeah, that sounds about right then...although I am skeptical of those type descriptions. Like of course I would be cynical after 24 or so years of abuse? Idk why they use that to differentiate.

[Lady Lunacy]

@Dreymagine
What about when you know someone well?

[Lady Lunacy]

Idk, I am always the one guiding the relationships in my life. So much so, that it kind of felt weird to simply ask, "so then what do you suggest [we do]?" the other day. That just...doesn't happen. I wasn't even asking because I didn't know, I was asking just to hear the other person's side. I was thinking I was going to have to point out the flaws in the suggestion and why it wouldn't work.

[Adam Strange]

Yeah, I don't know... I've read that enneagram types are determined by upbringing, particularly childhood trauma. What do you think of that?

@Dreymagine, you didn't ask me, but I've thought about this question a lot and I think that enneatype could be determined by childhood trauma, or not.

Clearly, the individual sociotypes each seem to have an enneatype slant. SEEs slant towards e7, SLEs towards e8, IEIs towards e4, and so on.
Assuming that enneatype is determined by childhood trauma would also imply that sociotype is also determined by childhood trauma, which I think is a harder case to make.

In any case, the links between enneatype and sociotype are unproven, so until someone can do more research, I don't think that we can answer the answer definitively.

[Robert Dane Horlock]

Thank you.
Rav is supervising your ass and LIE did not fit.

Yeah, it was nigh impossible to actually make that last, thus I was proving a point to her. I know that my Ni really isn't as strong as someone with creative Ni. I know that if and when I think about "the future", it's something tangible and realistic. And near and attainable. Not some grand, metaphorical scheme or goal. Everything is clear, and I use a short term strategy to get there.

And yeah, I do have strong Te and I can use it, but it's not valued in the same sense that a Gamma would care about it. My Gamma Dad cares a great deal about his plans, and about being efficient to the point that it's basically his whole personality. And I don't hold grudges like the Gammas tend to do when they are wronged. My Dad has a few of those.

And the Fi is basically non existent with me. I've already explained this numerous times, and am not gonna go into that. I just find it hard to grasp and experience, being my PoLR. Which leads onto my next point, below:

All ESI I have spoken to have been, from experience, difficult to deal with, since they lead with my PoLR. EII tend to conflict because of the (Ne) creative > Se creative, and their PoLR is my base function and Unvalued Role is their creative function. We have no valued functions in common. We're opposites poles in thinking, and how we approach life. Nothing they do makes sense to me in anyway. Especially the whole not sorting problems out actively thing. The Delta mentality.

At the end of the day, if an ExI is hitting me in the wrong places, it won't work out. Nothing will, and we shall continue to conflict. Nothing will change.

[Lady Lunacy]

Yeah, it was nigh impossible to actually make that last, thus I was proving a point to her. I know that my Ni really isn't as strong as someone with creative Ni. I know that if and when I think about "the future", it's something tangible and realistic. And near and attainable. Not some grand, metaphorical scheme or goal. Everything is clear, and I use a short term strategy to get there.

And yeah, I do have strong Te and I can use it, but it's not valued in the same sense that a Gamma would care about it. My Gamma Dad cares a great deal about his plans, and about being efficient to the point that it's basically his whole personality. And I don't hold grudges like the Gammas tend to do when they are wronged. My Dad has a few of those.

And the Fi is basically non existent with me. I've already explained this numerous times, and am not gonna go into that. I just find it hard to grasp and experience, being my PoLR. Which leads onto my next point, below:

All ESI I have spoken to have been, from experience, difficult to deal with, since they lead with my PoLR. EII tend to conflict because of the (Ne) creative > Se creative, and their PoLR is my base function and Unvalued Role is their creative function. We have no valued functions in common. We're opposites poles in thinking, and how we approach life. Nothing they do makes sense to me in anyway. Especially the whole not sorting problems out actively thing. The Delta mentality.

At the end of the day, if an ExI is hitting me in the wrong places, it won't work out. Nothing will, and we shall continue to conflict. Nothing will change.

I think that's a closed-minded perspective of it, not gonna lie. I have known SLEs that don't know Socionics, more commonly than SLEs who do know of it...and of all those I have known, the main differences between the ones informed about Socionics vs oblivious to it, is that SLEs who don't know about it tend to be much more receptive to becoming more educated and mature in Fi growth. I can't help but to notice the potential Socionics has to stunt peoples' growth. Not that SLEs aren't pains in the ass either way. Stubborn, the lot of them. "SLE, youre going to hit your head on that tree..." SLE argues with it, then hits head on tree...except the tree is some relationship issue. Then SLE be like "oh shit, how do i fix this"

[Sanguine Miasma]

Wow. Ok

you are such an imbecile. Crazy. And a bad typer.

How dare you.

OK. This made me wonder if IEIs disintegrate like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTRT794IQBg

guy having endless self-talk with their multiple personalities.

[godslave]

@Dreymagine, you didn't ask me, but I've thought about this question a lot and I think that enneatype could be determined by childhood trauma, or not.

Clearly, the individual sociotypes each seem to have an enneatype slant. SEEs slant towards e7, SLEs towards e8, IEIs towards e4, and so on.
Assuming that enneatype is determined by childhood trauma would also imply that sociotype is also determined by childhood trauma, which I think is a harder case to make.

In any case, the links between enneatype and sociotype are unproven, so until someone can do more research, I don't think that we can answer the answer definitively.

That would also imply that people who didn't have childhood trauma have neither an Enneatype nor a Sociotype.