The most successful dyads are in Alpha?

[Delilah]

I have wondered about this, based on my very small sample of successful dyads: the ones I've observed seem to be mainly in alpha. I've mostly paid attention to close friendships and relationships like marriage. It's my opinion that not all dyads have the same degree of success. I don't know why it seems that the most successful ones are in alpha. Admittedly I have only one couple from beta in my sample. I wonder if anyone else has noticed anything or maybe can suggest some likely reason why (if this is the case).

Feel free to link articles etc.

I'm aware of other factors, I guess there is no way to isolate them to make the sample more 'correct' or w/e.

Again, my sample could be small but wanted some opinions on this regardless.

[Chae]

Theory: It has to do with the other element that quadra ethics are blocked with. I assume that Gamma has the hardest time since comes with the mighty . Whereas Alpha has the best time since comes with easy breezy . I agree that collectivism or individualism in your actual country plays a role. But it comes down to if it's sensing or intuition with and . Sensing comes together faster, intuition won't but might be more durable (-!), although again in Beta things get rather dramatic and erratic while Gamma lasts forever if the introvert (!!) really got their dual on lockdown. It's Balzac and Dreiser, these people can just go on and on and on and... then add Napoleon's endless energy or Jack London's forward drive, really Gamma has to be the safety bank of the socion in terms of relationships.

Delta is definitely the most difficult to assess because of this contradiction, I'd say their comfort thinking clashes quite a lot with wanting to keep all options open. The most successful dyad to me is still EII-LSE though, no disruption and lack of irrational element preference including . Civilization ends and comes to a rest in Delta and Dostoevsky is the most masterful at relations, so if they come together is works really well. I can see why Alpha would connect way faster making it look all fine on the outside nonetheless, it's a good observation.

[Kernel]

My opinion for now is that both Delta and Beta dyads are not easy, because STs are hard to deal with for anyone and because it's an aristocratic quadra. Maybe irrationality also plays a role, so perhaps IEI/SLE and IEE/SLI are the least successful.

[Bertrand]

in my opinion the quadral progression is one of increasing psychological self reliance such that the delta dyads are the least likely to concede as a base proposition their reliance on and need for a formal relationship with another person, so they are the least inclined to slip into a relationship on the basis of common expectations (most Ni expectations being subject to a Ne acid test). alpha from the outside looks like they subconsciously accept all the elements that delta consciously questions because the area of delta creativity is hardened essentially into simpler easy to follow rules which alpha doesn't consciously resist. their proximity to the primordial pool out of which these issues were resolved means alpha has not really experienced a corruption or subversion of those rules so they function well. once you get to beta and gamma its like an arms race kicks off on how to best get the upper hand on the other (victim/aggressor), such that delta is sort of jaded in picking up the pieces and working it all back out. in other words, alpha psychologically inherits a lot of work of delta, and precedes its corruption by beta, making them relatively easy to pick up. this is mostly made up, but it jives with how I see relationships play out around me

[Adam Strange]

I also think the Delta dualities are the most stable.

Alphas seem to form dual partnerships late in life or never (kids forever). The one LII-ESE duality I know of formed and broke up within two years.

Betas seem to form and break up. However, I know of one SLE-IEI couple who met in their fifties and are together but not married.

Gammas, I only know of two ESI-LIE couples. They both married in their twenties and stayed together (so far - >ten years).

Deltas seem to be stable in relationships. I know of one SLI-IEE couple who are long married and are settled. Same with an LSE-EII couple.

[Bertrand]

I would agree with this notion that deltas come together later but are more stable if they do manage getting over that hump

I feel like the time sensitive nature of Se/Ni brings people together quicker. the types that dive into their career and treat marriage like a subset of that and check it off early fall into that as well

[wasp]

this kinda makes it sound like nobody actually gets married except gammas

[Bertrand]

well in the grand scheme of things its probably small differences in percentages, so like greater "likelihood to get married early" is like 50% alpha 55% beta 52% gamma 48% delta. I actually think beta is probably most likely since they like rules and institutions (Ti) and romance (Fe) and are aggressive (Se), so they're your standard romeo and juliet types, although they're not particularly stable (emotionally comfortable), although of course they can be. it seems to me a lot of ups and downs, so it would be tempting to say lots of betas stick to unhappy relationships but its more like they're bipolar and they kind of like it that way. my parents place a great deal of value on the vow over the actual day to day happiness, I attribute this to Ti Se more or less. day to day harmony I would associate more with Si Fi. I think Ne delays time in seeking precisely that kind of arrangement out, rather than getting on with it and focusing on "making" it work.. of course this is a quadral values thing. I do think a significant portion of relationships are inter-quadra so that complicates things, and a lot of it is just whatever culture you came up in as well

[Adam Strange]

this kinda makes it sound like nobody actually gets married except gammas

Yeah, that's a problem with personal and anecdotal evidence.

But based on years together, the Deltas I know are 3X ahead of the Gammas.

Also, one of the Gamma pair were my grandparents, whom I think were LIE and ESI. They got married around mid to late twenties, he (LIE) died of a heart attack at about age 53. From their scrapbook photos, though, she (ESI) was already starting to complain about him. The other Gamma pair is only about five years old, now that I think about it, and only about three years married. So who knows?

[Wavebury]

http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...ypes_by_Tsypin

Article says:

This phenomenon has been noticed for a while, that Process type dual pairs are more frequently encountered, while Result type dual pairs are much rarer in comparison. In addition, Process (right) dual couples tend to coexist together for a long time, while Result (left) couples often quickly fall apart.

[Adam Strange]

http://www.wikisocion.net/en/index.p...ypes_by_Tsypin

Article says:

Yeah, I read that article. Scary as hell, if you are a Results type.

My marriage lasted for many years, but she was a Process type and I think that helped a lot. She was always looking for ways to make things better, and I was just flying blind. Lol.

[Sol]

According to the theory, there should not be the difference in chances to create long-term duality pair.
P types are easier to change partners, so may to have higher chances to get dual, also higher chances to break such relations too.
And I doubt someone had enough stats in experience to say about the difference.

[wasp]

I figured as much, I mean it's interesting because it does line up with what I've observed in my family (which is quite large) and my friends' relationships, but I think I'm more inclined to agree with what daisy said about it potentially being closer related to the rationality vs irrationality dichotomy

what I find even more interesting is how each quadra (and concurrently, each dyad) approaches the process of solidifying a relationship, as well as the dynamic post-solidification, marriage itself isn't as important since it's based on uncontrolled variables ranging from cultural to individual life circumstances, like how younger generations in western countries are adverse to the idea of commitment because hookup culture has essentially taken over, while my family overseas is still surrounded by traditional cultural values, including younger generations, so they're significantly more likely to work toward fostering life-long romantic relationships, but I still catch little differences between my parents (delta) and my mom's side (primarily gamma with hints of delta and alpha) as well as my dad's side (hard to place them anywhere confidently, merry > serious + some delta but no gamma) because even if the crux of the older demographic is married with children, I see much more psychological comfort with these commitments on my mom's side, primarily the family members oriented toward gamma, but I think the greatest disparity might actually lie on the p/j axis (like I mentioned above) since even my closest cousin on my mom's side (whom I believe to be IEE or similar) is often described as acting like she's not even married, but it's never a function of being unfaithful. it's more like she acts as if she exists outside the "restrictions" of marriage that most females in our culture follow, which is mostly in reference to her going out with friends regularly even if she has certain obligations at home, like she has this "free spirit" vibe going for her, and it was stifled even further after she had her daughter, whom she loves dearly, but you can tell this life requires her to really "push" herself in order to fulfill the aforementioned obligations. can't say how that connects to duality but I think if she grew up in a different culture, she wouldn't have married so early, nor do I think she would've had a kid until much later in life. I remember she struggled pretty hard in pulling away from the "gamma" atmosphere at home since her parents started a business together which they tried to pull their children into, but she somehow managed to weasel her way out of that despite how adamant they seemingly were. sometimes I wish she had the opportunity to live her life without those cultural and familial restraints

but I remember in the case of her parents (aunt and uncle) what always intrigued me was their rationale for getting married since it was much more deliberate than anything else I'd seen in our family, it was almost like how beta has been described in this thread because there was a distinct sense of immediacy and they really "locked into" each other, and then it became increasingly more serious in its execution and how it panned out in the following years, which is funny because they kinda follow the stereotypical depictions of gamma relationships where finances play an over-arching theme in their dynamic, whereas my dad's side kinda looks like they're trudging through quick sand, but I think that can mostly be chalked up to their money issues, which is somehow more prevalent in the merry pairs. I wouldn't say the marriages are less successful since they're still tied together due to cultural expectations, but they seem more blatantly unimpressed with the whole dealio, and they don't quite vibe how the serious pairs do

as for my parents I'm 99% sure it's EII-LSE duality and I'm 98% sure that my mom was solely responsible for sealing the deal with my dad because from how I understand the beginning of their relationship, they hit it off straightaway, then after 6 or so months, she closed that distance quickly by bringing marriage to the table. he kinda went along with it and like, I'm pretty sure he was down to get married, he just did not understand what was happening. now as far as I know, they got married much later in life than the gamma pair I mentioned previously, who seemed to be each other's "one and only" and I actually think my aunt took romantic interest in my uncle long before they actually got together? whereas I don't think either of my parents were too focused on relationships until around the time they met each other, because most of their stories from teenhood and young adulthood are based primarily on their own individual experiences with family, friends, and the like, but there's very little emphasis on romantic relationships (even though I know they had them, and they acknowledge it as well) so I guess it was always a background theme in their lives until it wasn't anymore

my dad regularly mentions the quote "you can't truly consider someone a friend until you eat a full sack of salt with them" (paraphrasing because I can't remember the original) and it seems to be how he measures the quality of his marriage - how well he knows my mother and vice versa, as well as how long they've known each other - yet at the end of the day, they still feel distinctly less "attached" to each other than my aunt and uncle, who literally interwove their lives together permanently by starting a business together. there's an element of freedom at play here, even if they're just as dedicated to each other, if not more so, which is lacking in the gamma household (in my humble opinion, but what do I know anyway)

now I think my uncle might be SLI but I'm tentative on that typing because he's very enigmatic, which might just further prove that he is indeed SLI, and what's interesting to me is that he kinda exists outside the aforementioned cultural expectations because he never got married, but he had plenty of opportunities. I think there were like several instances where he got close to marrying but then he bowed out for reasons unknown to me, which struck a cord with some of our more traditional family members because here everybody was getting married meanwhile he's just chilling on the outskirts, but I do remember my mom mentioning his potential reasons for not marrying to me once, at least I don't think I was eavesdropping? but I think it was related to the relationships not being perfect, or maybe his partners didn't meet his expectations, which seemingly bothered my mom and dad, especially my dad which I found exceptionally unusual, but I always perceived them as completely valid reasons since there's really no point in settling for anything, especially if it could potentially decrease your quality of life, simply because other people believe you should, but you see, this ended up working in his favor because now he's dating a hot-shot singer from the homeland and I see that they are very happy together, he's like 60 or something now

ohh I do know of a beta couple (my cousin and his girlfriend) who are younger than me, and I really wanna say it's IEI-SLE duality because he's definitely SLE while she's most likely beta NF since she seems to enjoy their volatile dynamic, even thrives on it I think, but I'm afraid of falling into the trap of assuming any successful couple must be duality since I just pegged my parents as duals a few paragraphs ago. it's just that the stories I've heard about my cousin and his girlfriend, which could just be a function of their young age, seem very close in line with what I've read about beta's romance style

now as for my friends, it honestly comes down to whether I'm referring to my friends from the small town I spent my youth, or the friends I made after we moved to a much bigger city, since the former category got married even earlier than my family overseas, while very few of the friends in the city I live in right now have gotten married, and I don't speculate most of them will get married until we move closer to our mid and late 20s

[Sanguine Miasma]

Well, their valued IE's just suggest that kind of outcome as there is much less stress on personal or communal significance and style of interaction favours external factors.

[Number 9 large]

no offense but you need to express your thoughts more clearly. summarize. use bullet points. etc. Your writing is too hard to read and it's limiting people from seeing your insights.

Iee confirmed

[powerrainbowcrystal]

I think being Fe/Ti/Si/Ne valuing in its entirety can really 'paint a pretty picture' of like where things appear more healthy or 'good' even if they aren't, or there's just a lot of dark shit under the surface that you don't see because Alphas can be REALLY good at hiding this- as their sunlight persona is one of childlike naivete. Just like Betas are emo teens, Gammas are grumpy adults and Deltas boring old people. Because how do we truly define what is a successful relationship anyway? Life is too beautifully messy or sth.

I also see Alpha/Delta being similar in the sense they often can just kinda get things done for their community whereas Beta/Gamma will have some pointless debate of some bullshittery thing that they blow something out of proportion and kind of needlessly piss a bunch of people off (all while being smug and self-important about it). Being Si/Ne valuing is really underrated sometimes.

[wasp]

no offense but you need to express your thoughts more clearly. summarize. use bullet points. etc. Your writing is too hard to read and it's limiting people from seeing your insights.

• Understood.

[ooo]

tbh ive read wasp's long post in 2 minutes and it flowed perfectly and english is not my mom's tongue yet i understood it and i liked it and i didnt get bored as most of the long posts around here make me bored, and i wanted to read it till the end from the scratch, so yeah

plus it was funny that all the couples she mentions are duals but that just adds to the cuteness eheh

[Exodus]

I find certain dyads are more likely to have common areas of interest and join up more easily IRL - LSI/EIE and ILE/SEI in particular -- which you might imagine share political activism or leisure activities respectively. With others there can be some barriers, including gender roles. Rick once mentioned how some IEIs seem too sensitive to really get along with an SLE, which I think has some truth to it.

[lemontrees]

tbh ive read wasp's long post in 2 minutes and it flowed perfectly and english is not my mom's tongue yet i understood it and i liked it and i didnt get bored as most of the long posts around here make me bored, and i wanted to read it till the end from the scratch, so yeah

plus it was funny that all the couples she mentions are duals but that just adds to the cuteness eheh

@wasp Me too

[Delilah]

According to the theory, there should not be the difference in chances to create long-term duality pair.
P types are easier to change partners, so may to have higher chances to get dual, also higher chances to break such relations too.
And I doubt someone had enough stats in experience to say about the difference.

I already admitted that my sample is too small, but what are you bringing to the table statistics-wise? I've seen nothing from you in the way of statistics.

Even if I take my father as example alone: he was with my mother, SEI (him being ILE) then, when she passed away, he found an ESE, and then another ESE.
All w/in alpha quadra.

Further, a LII I know married to ESE. Again, a LII - ESE couple I know. etc.

In beta i know one activity relation only.

I know one ILI-SLE marriage relation and it is terrible by the way ILI talks of it i'm surprised they are still married, maybe did it for the kids.

Then i know a couple of gamma-delta marriages (ILI-EII), but, as you can see, they're not w/in quadra.

I have a handful more, but not many. As I said, my sample is small (there are people my age still not married nor considering marriage yet etc). It's a small sample but one which made me wonder.

[Sol]

what are you bringing to the table statistics-wise? I've seen nothing from you in the way of statistics.

I've said above that there is nothing to say about the quadras difference in this.

> Even if I take my father as example alone

Also the real types of people are questionable.

[Delilah]

Also the real types of people are questionable.

nonsense.

[Delilah]

Just recently I met another LII - ESE couple. The balance seems really not there ...

[Eliza Thomason]

tbh ive read wasp's long post in 2 minutes and it flowed perfectly and english is not my mom's tongue yet i understood it and i liked it and i didnt get bored as most of the long posts around here make me bored, and i wanted to read it till the end from the scratch, so yeah

plus it was funny that all the couples she mentions are duals but that just adds to the cuteness eheh

Mirror.

[Allegra]

I already admitted that my sample is too small, but what are you bringing to the table statistics-wise? I've seen nothing from you in the way of statistics.

Even if I take my father as example alone: he was with my mother, SEI (him being ILE) then, when she passed away, he found an ESE, and then another ESE.
All w/in alpha quadra.

Further, a LII I know married to ESE. Again, a LII - ESE couple I know. etc.

In beta i know one activity relation only.

I know one ILI-SLE marriage relation and it is terrible by the way ILI talks of it i'm surprised they are still married, maybe did it for the kids.

Then i know a couple of gamma-delta marriages (ILI-EII), but, as you can see, they're not w/in quadra.

I have a handful more, but not many. As I said, my sample is small (there are people my age still not married nor considering marriage yet etc). It's a small sample but one which made me wonder.

How are the ILI-EII couples working out?

[Allegra]

Based on duals I know:

Alpha: sweet
Beta: dramatic
Gamma: intense
Delta: peaceful

[Tallmo]

The problem is that one has to control the subtype also when doing these comparisons. Because it is such an important factor. I know of two ILE + SEI married couples that broke up but they were both N+H subtypes so not optimal.