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    Default dictonomies of DCNH

    I wanted to make a thread about this. Its the core of the theory of DCNH.

    CAN you give an example and simplify each??? Three question marks becouse of desperation. I believe im connecting but thats about it. why is there not more subtypes than 4? It should be able to be at least 8. 2^3 -> 8

    First dichotomy: contacting/distancing.The first pole of this dichotomy represents the predominance of the need for contact and interaction, and the second pole represents the need to distance. Clearly expressed extroverts, as well as extroverted introverts, fall into the "contacting" category. Clearly expressed introverts, as well as introverted extroverts – those extroverts who avoid intensive contact – fall into the distancing category. The scale of vertness is thus split into four inner gradations.
    Second dichotomy: terminating/initiating.
    I understand "terminating" as the ability to finish what was started and a tendency towards ordering/regulation, and "initiating" as the opposite tendency to initiate and to easily move on to something else, with an accompanying disorder in matters and affairs. As you see, this is a concretization of the already familiar to the reader dichotomy rationality/irrationality. It would be incorrect to think that pristine order reigns in the house of any person of rational type, that this person very clearly plans everything, and that any person of irrational type throws around his things and gets burdened by planning. In reality, between two of these extreme poles there are two more intervening gradations.
    Clearly expressed rationals and orderly irrationals belong to the "terminating" pole, while clearly expressed irrationals and disorderly rationals belong to the "initiating" pole.
    And the third additional dichotomy is connecting/ignoring.
    The basis for this scale is assumed to be the level of sensitivity to changes in the environment. Connectors are very sensitive to such changes, whereas ignorers, as the name suggests, are capable of not paying any attention to this. This polarity is the subtype refinement of the classical dichotomy static/dynamic.
    Combining these three scales, we obtain the following four subtypes:

    • Contacting, Terminating, Connecting - Dominant Subtype (D);
    • Contacting, Initiating, Ignoring - Creative Subtype (C);
    • Distancing, Terminating, Ignoring - Normalizing Subtype (N);
    • Distancing, Initiation, Connecting - Harmonizing Subtype (H).

    Contacting Distancing
    Terminating Dominating subtype (connecting) Normalizing subtype (ignoring)
    Initiating Creative subtype (ignoring) Harmonizing subtype (connecting)

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    Connecting / ignoring is the most interesting imo.

    It's a dynamic connection with the environment. Not just noticing things but noticing changes as they happen. It's hard to explain but much easier to see. And can clearly be felt when talking with D or H people.

    I see it in the eyes also. D and H have more soft, dynamic eyes. N and C more static, disconnected look in their eyes.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Connecting / ignoring is the most interesting imo.

    It's a dynamic connection with the environment. Not just noticing things but noticing changes as they happen. It's hard to explain but much easier to see. And can clearly be felt when talking with D or H people.

    I see it in the eyes also. D and H have more soft, dynamic eyes. N and C more static, disconnected look in their eyes.
    Also ignoring types are more likely to concentrate fully on a person without any distractions. Connecting type's are easily distracted by changes in the environment e.g. people walking around or sounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    I
    why is there not more subtypes than 4? It should be able to be at least 8. 2^3 -> 8
    some dichotomies are apparently redundant. you only need 2 dichotomies
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Anytime I read this DCNH stuff my eyes just glaze over, it's Ti but the problem is we don't seem to have enough of the information to know why DarkAngelFireWolf69 made certain decisions, other than

    The basis for this scale is assumed to be the level of sensitivity
    I don't know what room there is for assumption, because then is it all assumed?, or some (which parts?) So I think the best way to approach it is just to take the idea of making another 4 subtypes and just go with their general description. Up to the individual as to whether they find it useful or not, but that is more of an Ne/Te approach.

    Perhaps the Alpha NT's will have some theorizing to add? @Troll Nr 007

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007
    It is obvious that DarkAngelFireWolf69 wants to establish himself as left spin type just because he can... He mixes different levels information together which ends up in lots of obfuscation in the end.

    I'm still thinking that DCNH subtypes are just different levels of supervision ring subtype representations of the same type which actually makes some logical sense. For some reason he never says it directly but puts out indirect references.


    Furthermore he suggests 8 subtype system.
    Ah

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    It is obvious that DarkAngelFireWolf69 wants to establish himself as left spin type just because he can... He mixes different levels information together which ends up in lots of obfuscation in the end.

    I'm still thinking that DCNH subtypes are just different levels of supervision ring subtype representations of the same type which actually makes some logical sense. For some reason he never says it directly but puts out indirect references.

    Furthermore he suggests 8 subtype system.
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    Contacting, Terminating, Ignoring Foreman
    Contacting, Initiating, Connecting Entrepreneur
    Distancing, Terminating, Connecting Secretary
    Distancing, Initiation, Ignoring Planer

    Because why not. DarkAngelFireWolf69 seem to ignore the other half.

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    Yeah. If we follow spins then there would be benenefactor, beneficiary, extinguishing and dual subtypes.
    Giving total of 8. That would break static/dynamic. Or going towards right<-> left spin change in static/dynamic construction.

    very strong maybe.
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    Just from experience with the dichotomies I'd say there are 4 clear subtypes. Then DarkAngelFireWolf69 introduces another dichotomy to distinguish 8 subtypes (primary/secondary). This is in the original DCNH article. But in reality it's not always possible to observe 8 subtypes. So you might be able to identify someone as D subtype, but the Fe/Te is blurred and it's not possible to say weather he is Fe-D or Te-D.

    But, some people have a clear subtype in 8-system. So usually I just note that some Normalizers seems more on the Fi side and others more on the Ti side etc.

    Actually, some people have a very strong 8 subtype. I know a SEI who is a strong Ni-harmonizer, he doesn't show much Si at all. (he is a student of philosophy)

    But I dont' think It's possible to assign 8 subtypes for all people out there.
    Last edited by Tallmo; 02-25-2018 at 04:49 PM.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    DarkAngelFireWolf69 freely admits any possible combination of type accent is possible, he just posits his system as a way to capture a large swath of the population. its not the end all be all, in the sense that he didn't intend to capture every possible combination. ultimately, you could have a map the size of the whole world, which is what personality theory will wrap around and become. it will ultimately just become a comprehensive form of intuitive perception based on words rather than irrational perception. so the idea is you have to leave some stuff out for it to be useful. on some level people already know exactly what personality is, because they interact with people every day, the problem is there is no rational scheme that embodies that experience... in other words, all individuals occupy somewhat unique positions if you turn up the resolution high enough, you can have a system of 64 types, (DCNH model G), or a system of 4096 types. the question of why this approach and not this approach ultimately comes down to the usefulness of the axioms. because personality theory doesn't tell you what you are, it only describes whats already there in different words. to me, the most useful development of socioncis was the idea of quadra, since by breaking types into 16, instead of 4 (via temperament), how constant divisions between groups and individuals becomes clear. quadra helps explain historical processes in a way temperament barely addresses. DCNH is more local in what it describes, how people take on roles within small groups, which is useful for finding one's place within say, the typology community (hence the general obsession with subtypes and the need to distinguish oneself), but ultimately its more like a fun aspect that acts on the entertainment side of typology than one that really addresses the humanitarian import. I submit that socials and researchers (especially alpha but also gamma to some extent) will be more interested in DCNH, because they are into 1) the social differentiating aspects and 2) refining the minituae of the theory itself. whereas humanitarians and pragmatists will be more interested in the broad far reaching aspects of typology name issues such as quadral conflicts, historical development, and the nature of ultimate meaningful values such as love as it pertains to humans being dual creatures, etc

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    • Contacting, Terminating, Connecting - Dominant Subtype (D);
    • Contacting, Initiating, Ignoring - Creative Subtype (C);
    • Distancing, Terminating, Ignoring - Normalizing Subtype (N);
    • Distancing, Initiation, Connecting - Harmonizing Subtype (H).;
    • Contacting, Terminating, Ignoring - Foreman (F).;
    • Contacting, Initiating, Connecting Entrepreneur - (E).;
    • Distancing, Terminating, Connecting Secretary (S).;
    • Distancing, Initiation, Ignoring Planer (P).


    There seem to be a pattern that DarkAngelFireWolf69 do his theories half way.

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    Actually nooone find this of interests? The missing subtypes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    • Contacting, Terminating, Ignoring - Foreman (F).;
    • Contacting, Initiating, Connecting Entrepreneur - (E).;
    • Distancing, Terminating, Connecting Secretary (S).;
    • Distancing, Initiation, Ignoring Planer (P).


    There seem to be a pattern that DarkAngelFireWolf69 do his theories half way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigerfadder View Post
    Actually nooone find this of interests? The missing subtypes?
    Tigerfadder, those "subtypes" dont exist. You are just making an assumption that those dichotomies can be combined freely, which is wrong.

    Look at model A. What function is this?

    dynamic, external, field, rational

    Answer: It doesn't exist. There is no such thing as "rational Si"
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Tigerfadder, those "subtypes" dont exist. You are just making an assumption that those dichotomies can be combined freely, which is wrong.

    Look at model A. What function is this?

    dynamic, external, field, rational

    Answer: It doesn't exist. There is no such thing as "rational Si"
    maybe but I feel like this may be an assumption in the other direction, mainly because DCNH points to functional accents as manifest in small group behavior. we all know accented functions arent limited to valued or even dichotomously opposed functions (i.e.: in principle fi and te could be accented). i think DarkAngelFireWolf69s point excludes those happenings mainly as a way to create regularities,but that doesn't mean theyre strictly speaking impossible, rather just less common and outside the scope of his intentionally limited definitional framework, but it could be otherwise, he just chose not to pass over those possibilities as a practical matter. in other words its enough to say those additional combinations don't line up with DCNH butI dont think its inconceivable new combos could be generated. of course then it wouldnt be DCNH anymore either. i guess im saying DarkAngelFireWolf69 just chose to frame things this way but its a feature of his model not necessarily a definitive statement on all possible combinations in reality. like you said its possible if we included additional combinations we could no longer use the same words like connecting, terminating, etc since various new combinations would in effect explode the meaning of those words, because unusual combinations would manifest themselves not resembling those words anymore. like you said "rational Si" it would lose its helpful meaning

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Tigerfadder, those "subtypes" dont exist. You are just making an assumption that those dichotomies can be combined freely, which is wrong.

    Look at model A. What function is this?

    dynamic, external, field, rational

    Answer: It doesn't exist. There is no such thing as "rational Si"
    Sounds like SLI, a subtype, but honestly I do not really compute what you wrote here. I take an other look other time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Tigerfadder, those "subtypes" dont exist. You are just making an assumption that those dichotomies can be combined freely, which is wrong.

    Look at model A. What function is this?

    dynamic, external, field, rational

    Answer: It doesn't exist. There is no such thing as "rational Si"

    Oh I see you try to make an impossible type with model A thus proving that there are limited types by choice. But if you look at the axioms there are perception and judging with introvert and extrovert and those make 16 types. Here we have 3 pair of dictonomies and those make 8 types.

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    I'm waiting for DarkAngelFireWolf69's Typology 64 completion. I have only found betas.
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