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Thread: Cindy Joseph

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    Default Cindy Joseph

    She starting modeling, got married and found her own cosmetics brand at her 60s. Again I will go with IEE for her.







    Here with her husband:





    Types?
    Last edited by Akira; 02-24-2018 at 02:29 PM.

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    @Adam Strange @Tallmo @Raver


    what do you think?
    Last edited by Akira; 02-24-2018 at 06:58 AM.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    what do you think?
    Obvious EIE
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    Obvious EIE
    Why Se>Si and Ni>Ne? Did you watched her vids?

    My only other option is ESE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    Why Se>Si and Ni>Ne? Did you watched her vids?
    Yes I watched the vids but my guess was EIE as soon as I saw her.

    Your way of typing is maybe more analytical. I'm more synthetic. But ESEs have stronger Se, and she seems quite weak on Se.

    FeNi I think it's obvious how she connects with the camera. Small manipulative pauses and other sophisticated EIE stuff. Hard to describe this, just something I see in EIE alot.

    And you don't have to be an Si valuer in order to like makeup. Si polr works just fine because there is only a minimum of Si needed, so too strong Si can actually be a bad thing for this activity, because the actual sensory part of makup is quite narrow. So that's my view.

    She is Dominant subtype.

    My only other option is ESE.
    That would be my other option also
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    All in all to me EIE look strong and impressive in front of the cameras (Fe). Same in communication (we see it also in this forum). IEEs are the psychologist and use 4DFe too.
    Shirley Manson is typed as EIE by most ppl:



    Last edited by Akira; 02-24-2018 at 02:28 PM.

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    Strong J type face - EJ and has typical EIE look IMO.

    Reminds me of Kate Mulgrew, from Star Trek - Voyager


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    And has a similar look to an EIE I know in real life.

    Not watched the vids or read about this woman (Cindy Joseph), but from photos and postures in the photos in this thread, and VI similarity to EIE, EIE is fine for her IMO.

    Agree with @Tallmo's analysis too

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo
    And you don't have to be an Si valuer in order to like makeup. Si polr works just fine because there is only a minimum of Si needed, so too strong Si can actually be a bad thing for this activity, because the actual sensory part of makup is quite narrow. So that's my view.
    True wise words IMO.

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    EIEs often have those sleepy, languid eyes.

    Here's another example of EIE:



    She looks very similar to Cindy imo.

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    And Cindy had even found herself a dal.

    Last video screems D-EIE + N-LSI to me.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    And Cindy had even found herself a dal.

    Last video screems D-EIE + N-LSI to me.
    Good shout.

    The last video was rather dramatic emotional expression by Joseph. Her partner doesn't say much but at 2:32, 'I think that pretty much summed it up' - a hint there of Ti structure and hierarchy re-assurance for her.

    She then goes on to be quite dramatically emotional, approx 2:40 when she says, 'that can deal ... with ... me ... EVERYTHING!!...' (sounds like victim/aggressor scenario), then describes herself as a 'control freak', which sounds more J than anything, which is not quite what comes to mind with IEE, but that sort of thing can be quite EIE (and Beta too).

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    EIE, or lesser possibly LIE

    Bruce - LII
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    @Crystal, I think @Tallmo is correct with the EIE typing. The way she talks is so reminiscient of EIEs I know. The last video when she talks about her relationship with her partner seemed rather Betaesque and her husband appears LSI in his demeanor as well. It would make sense that they are duals given how positive their relationship has been in the long term.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    @Adam Strange @Tallmo @Raver


    what do you think?
    I watched 34 seconds of "A Little Chat About Life and Love", and oh yes. She's IEE.

    At least, that's what I think.

    She's the spitting image of my ex-wife's sister, who is IEE. She also has a strong resemblance to a woman I work with, whom I type IEE. The looks, the speech cadence, the topic and word choices, all resemble my ex's IEE sister. Here is a picture of her: poof
    Too bad I don't have any movies, because then the resemblance would be obvious.
    Last edited by Adam Strange; 02-25-2018 at 05:28 AM.

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    @Adam Strange, how about her husband?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    @Adam Strange, how about her husband?
    OK, @Crystal, I watched the whole eight minutes and wrote down my impressions as I watched. Here they are:

    He has very low to non-existent Fe.
    “she tortured me for years.” I once asked my SLI father why he married my mother, and he said “She made me do it.”

    Guy is giving nothing. Conservation of all resources: SLI.
    Very few smiles.

    Imperturbable.

    “Til we’re old and crotchety and beyond.” Here I see the exact facial micro expressions of my SLI father.

    He didn’t realize the loss of his kids was affecting him. Typical SLI repression (or denial) of their feelings.

    God, she just talks and talks and talks. Only an SLI could stand that for very long.

    “Right?” “Right.” IEE & SLI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    OK, for you, @Crystal, I watched the whole eight minutes and wrote down my impressions as I watched. Here they are:

    He has very low to non-existent Fe.
    “she tortured me for years.” I asked my SLI father why he married my mother, and he said “She made me do it.”

    Guy is giving nothing. Conservation of all resources: SLI.
    Very few smiles.

    Imperturbable.

    “Til we’re old and crotchety and beyond.” Here I see the exact facial micro expressions of my SLI father.

    He didn’t realize the loss of his kids was affecting him. Typical SLI repression (or denial) of their feelings.

    God, she just talks and talks and talks. Only an SLI could stand that for very long.

    “Right?” “Right.” IEE & SLI.
    He's as static as a piece of wood, and VIs as LSI though, not SLI. (Has the LSI Se stare too)

    SLI is very doubtful.

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    that last vid reminds me super strongly of my mom and dad who I think are an EIE/LSI couple

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    Why Se>Si and Ni>Ne? Did you watched her vids?

    My only other option is ESE.
    That last video definitely gives evidence for Se > Si.

    "I wanted to know if he was made of the stuff that could deal with me." (Se)
    "can go into a screaming rage at the drop of a hat" (her self-description)
    "nothing just comes, you have to create your life"

    There is a lot about authentic self-expression, that she can finally be who she is without tempering herself for others. "right on for you, be who you are"

    Identifies the unknown with excitement and positive emotions - no problems with Ne there. Describes the emotional experience in detail.

    She reminds me of @golden (as a side note, not an argument). EIE seems plausible, ESE maybe also worth considering.

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    Is that true @golden? What do you think @darya? EIE for her?

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    Btw, I don't think the Husband is LSI, I'd give him LII or xLI.

    LSI examples according Gulenko




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    I def think they VI more as delta, like at first glance I thought IEE, but once she started talking and you could observe the undeniable body language of both of them that seemed to ooze out. I do think with maturity and intelligence and trials people tend to converge toward their quasi a bit because its a part of becoming more balanced and maybe there's some of that here. like she's not one of those EIE I would say that acts like shes 16 her whole life or whatever, but there does seem to be a strong current of refined hamlet mannerisms under riding her. I also think its possible husband could be ILI (he reminds me of my dad where he comes off as trying his best to be comfortable but the fact that he has to means he's not truly, which I think is the opposite of Si base). its hard to tell for sure because just going off of impressions, and she's marketting herself with these videos a bit. I do think getting into cosmetics is unusual for EIE since Si is generally zone of fear, but its not impossible and it makes sense if someone did go that route as a Hamlet it would create a blurry impression. I just think the underlying mannerisms are stronger indicators ultimately than things like profession, since I think people can do anything. it would be interesting to know if her products had a reputation for their Si quality, or it was more marketing and image and class consciousness that was their main selling points, because I think betas need makeup too and there's tell tale indicators of what's going on buried in there somewhere. delta products I would expect an emphasis on quality, naturalness, price-performance, etc. whereras with beta I would expect more based on positive associations with brand or advertising imagery, status indicators, and emphasis on the influence it creates, or power it confers, etc

    I guess geting into cosmetics isn't weird, if you view it as image-conscious product management, but with delta I think of their approach to cosmetics as very different which is a more organic approach to how they develop and present their bodies. its not unusual to have one quadra advance the message of another, so you could easily have EIE saying all the delta buzzwords, but it depends on what's really going on, which is if they're co-opting those words as part of a deeper set of values, so its never a guarantee that its straightforward. I would say market societies make it almost their intentional purpose to subvert such easy identification through marketing, where you have the underlying business concerns driving the message and its all cleverly concealed etc. this is how you get fads where everyone converged on one set of images or values for a short time, then back again, consumer society likes to "try on" quadra as far as I can tell, since it creates interest and is fun etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by bertrand
    I also think its possible husband could be ILI (he reminds me of my dad where he comes off as trying his best to be comfortable but the fact that he has to means he's not truly, which I think is the opposite of Si base).
    Role Fi possible for LSI.


    its hard to tell for sure because just going off of impressions, and she's marketting herself with these videos a bit. I do think getting into cosmetics is unusual for EIE since Si is generally zone of fear,
    Fashion is perfect for Beta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac View Post
    Role Fi possible for LSI.


    Fashion is perfect for Beta.
    my point is fashion means two different things depending on quadra. for some, cosmetics are about self care and so forth, for others its about image projection. its not enough to say fashion = beta, because it only scratches the surface. its sort of like how there are beta and delta versions of Jesus. the point is to identify the intuitive impression of which underlying group she actually belongs to. in that sense to formulaicly apply the word "fashion" is too formal, because it could mean different things. what I was trying to say is she exudes mixed signals on that point, which is to say on one hand she exudes a certain natural vibe but on the other it is unclear whether than is a byproduct of refined image projection or a manifestation of a deep seated natural understanding of physical states. by this I mean some people create cosmetics to help impart the wisdom they themselves accumulated in their own journey of self care and aesthetic sensitivity (Si)... these would be your small scale operations like local coffeehouses, cobblers, grocers, etc vs your "gucci" style institutions that through systematizing and refining the product (through the filter of mass appeal, Fe) they give off, as a byproduct (Se), a manifestation of Si "wisdom", but not arising out of direct attention paid to it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    my point is fashion means two different things depending on quadra. for some, cosmetics are about self care and so forth, for others its about image projection. its not enough to say fashion = beta, because it only scratches the surface. its sort of like how there are beta and delta versions of Jesus. the point is to identify the intuitive impression of which group she actually belongs to. in that sense to just use the word "fashion" is too formal, because it could mean different things. what I was trying to say is she exudes mixed signals on that point, which is to say on one hand she exudes a certain natural vibe but on the other it is unclear whether than is a byproduct of clever image projection or a manifestation of a deep seated natural understanding of physical states. by this I mean some people create cosmetics to help impart the wisdom they themselves accumulated in their own journey of self care and aesthetic sensitivity (Si)... these would be your small scale operations like local coffehouses, cobblers, grocers, etc vs your "gucci" style institutions that through systematizing and refining the product they give off, as a byproduct (Se), a form of Si knowledge, but without direct attention paid to it
    That her interests have stayed on the one thing is just another sign of Ni>Ne. She doesn't talk about Fi subjects either, like IEEs do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand
    its sort of like how there are beta and delta versions of Jesus.
    There are no Beta and Delta versions of Jesus. There is the real Jesus and false versions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac View Post

    There are no Beta and Delta versions of Jesus. There is the real Jesus and false versions.
    I don't think the latter really flows from the former. you can have different versions of Jesus and one be true and the other false. in fact for there to be true and false there has to be more than one, so it seems to me self evident that at the level of ideals people hold different versions of Jesus in their head, which is precisely why we have true/false designators in order to parse those differences. I don't think that people believe things and will die for them is negligible however, since even the "false" versions exist and exert force in the world, same for any corrupt ideology. in that sense you can't say those versions don't exist since they obviously do in some capacity

    Dostoevsky's grand inquisitor really lays this out quite nicely, because it shows how one transforms into the other and perhaps back again over time, that the truth and falsity of things are snapshots of the same phenomenon at different points in time from different points of view. ultimately they give way to one another, which is what quadral progression is, the truth of the process is in some sense the fundamental truth, and Jesus is actually a symbol of that process. while he gets "corrupted" by worldly institutions its nothing less than another form of his death and resurrection which he foretold from the beginning. in this sense the realest version of Jesus is not specific dogma but the experience of the divine in the human playing itself out over time. that people are free to live out different aspects of this truth makes them both true in some sense rather than false, and the binary we impose is a perspective effect, basically just used to signal our own differentiation, but we are ultimately all bound up in the process. in other words truth and falsity are primarily subjective judgements we impose on perceptions in order to differentiate ourselves (Ti), rather usefulness is the more objective (Te) way of looking at beliefs and it seems that the truth of Jesus is really in his role as guide for humanity toward unification not division. this is why I would close the circle by returning to the concept that beta christianity is false inasmuch as it divides and conquers, but over long enough periods of time even that version winds up serving Gods ultimate purpose (the inquisitor leaves the back door open)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    I don't think the latter really flows from the former. you can have different versions of Jesus and one be true and the other false. in fact for there to be true and false there has to be more than one, so it seems to me self evident that at the level of ideals people hold different versions of Jesus in their head, which is precisely why we have true/false designators in order to parse those differences. I don't think that people believe things and will die for them is negligible however, since even the "false" versions exist and exert force in the world, same for any corrupt ideology. in that sense you can't say those versions don't exist since they obviously do in some capacity
    The correct version of Jesus comes from the Bible, but crucially from being born again, having the Spirit of Christ living inside you.

    “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1st Corinthians 2:14)

    It's why different people talk about a different Jesus, because they are influenced by a different spirit.

    Anyway, I think you could probably do best derailing someone else's thread, maybe this one like you started working on. As usual you talk about things you know nothing about, as though you think you do. Why not quote the actual part of this subjects thread instead (quoted for you below), and perhaps stop trying to get a rise out of people to satisfy your

    Nevertheless I explained it you, because eternal life is more important than socionics (obviously), but we won't talk longer about it again at least on this thread.

    The point of the thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac
    That her interests have stayed on the one thing is just another sign of Ni>Ne. She doesn't talk about Fi subjects either, like IEEs do.
    To elaborate, IEEs interest diversify, it's not like them to remain in the same niche like Joseph, especially given the level of opportunities to exercise their
    Last edited by at sirac son of sirac; 02-25-2018 at 07:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    I do think getting into cosmetics is unusual for EIE since Si is generally zone of fear, but its not impossible and it makes sense if someone did go that route as a Hamlet it would create a blurry impression.
    The thing is that cosmetics is not necessarily Si, or the actual Si component of the activity is so small that only a very narrow processing is needed.

    Imo EIE show their Si often as a very narrow, "nazi" approach to sensing.

    There are activities where the PoLR position of an certain element actually can be good, because it can be used in a narrow way and governed by stronger functions.

    They can have a perfectionistic approach to sensing. Many EIE women have a perfect look. Perfect clothes, perfect makeup.

    but with delta I think of their approach to cosmetics as very different which is a more organic approach to how they develop and present their bodies.
    agree
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    She starting modeling, got married and found her own cosmetics brand at her 60s. Again I will go with IEE for her.
    Here with her husband:
    Yep, IEE. The way she giggles, plays with her hair, totally a "child-like" type. One does not behave themselves this way in Beta quadra.

    Her husband may very well be her dual. Their video together immediately reminded me of Valentina Meged and Anatoliy Ovcharov, types IEE & SLI.

    Here's Meged's SLI husband side-by-side with her guy:



    It seems to be common type of setting for male SLI - female IEE couples (and ILI-SEE as well) for the SLI to quietly chill and relax in the background while the IEE does all the communication, but at the same time he is by her side showing his support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo
    They can have a perfectionistic approach to sensing. Many EIE women have a perfect look. Perfect clothes, perfect makeup.
    IEEs can have a career in modelling, but their natural preference is a little more homespun, like how Davina McCall now is,



    Even when she's still trying to dress up, she still has a sort of homespun feel about her,



    Which is different from Joseph who fits the stereotypical idea of fashion better, glamor and elegant, respect.

    Make up is something that I've seen some female SLIs avoid, or go for low look, I know a female SLI who does wear more, but it's not the focal point of her appearance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    EIEs often have those sleepy, languid eyes.

    Here's another example of EIE:



    She looks very similar to Cindy imo.
    Subs por favor!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    The thing is that cosmetics is not necessarily Si, or the actual Si component of the activity is so small that only a very narrow processing is needed.

    Imo EIE show their Si often as a very narrow, "nazi" approach to sensing.
    yeah absolutely, I think I had a narrow delta version of "cosmetics" in mind when I began thinking about it, so I innately opposed EIE to it, but upon reflection, you're totally right, there's an entire world of EIE cosmetics, its too rigid to say Si polr opposes all activities with a Si element, its more like they bring their characteristic version of Si to the activity and that makes sense because there needs to be x products for non x types, etc. a way to realize x subconsciously for all likeminded people who are "afraid" of it. in other words, the biggest market for cosmetics may in fact be Si for non Si types. in fact the more I think of it, the more I think that is precisely what most of cosmetics is, because base Si types know how to take care of those issues without recourse to industrial production, etc I feel like fast food is a version of this same phenomenon. its why Si like customized home spun handmade goods of high quality made from natural, organic, recycled or repurposed materials whereas mass produced goods of standard quality manage to fill the same role with minimal effort for people who focus their attention elsewhere

    my mom sells some crazy pyramid scheme cosmetics as a side project, but its all mass produced stuff in that vein, but for her its a good way to cover the Si element in a non threatening manner and she really does provide that service for other people as well, but its not really Si its more like a cover for Si, which is fine, because she's good at other stuff. when I left home she forced the equivalent of a big mac on me not realizing I think I already have a sense what shampoo I like, but if you consider her projection of fear onto me, it was like an act of care predicated on the assumption that I really didn't want to deal with shampoo and she was taking care of that for me (but it was done in the most Si avoiding kind of way, i.e. the product was chosen precisely for how little Si you actually had to put into choosing it, you just go off name recognition and mass acceptance, which is a way to avoid the real Si calculations and just use a model, etc). the weird thing about products in this vein is they all smell off to me and it blows my mind these overdone people can't tell that the goods theyre using are actually of low quality and quantity is no substitute

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    Haha she is so much a look a like (not meaning socionics look a like ITR) to someone from my past



    McCall is older, but just the 'look' and the actions captures it (although McCall got a tad bit too slim). Though, my ideal IEE woman haha.

    But there's plenty of good IEEs (tries not to turn this into an IEE appreciation society/thread.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Subs por favor!
    Sorry. She's not very well known outside Japan so most of her songs and interviews are not translated but here's her channel if you want to hear some EIE music! Her music videos also are very EIE imo.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SheenaR...able_polymer=1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    Sorry. She's not very well known outside Japan so most of her songs and interviews are not translated but here's her channel if you want to hear some EIE music! Her music videos also are very EIE imo.
    https://www.youtube.com/user/SheenaR...able_polymer=1
    Hey, thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Yep, IEE. The way she giggles, plays with her hair, totally a "child-like" type. One does not behave themselves this way in Beta quadra.
    I'm probably Delta NF and I would never act that way, IEEs are more like subtle in the way they talk about feelings. I feel that if an SLI was there, he would probably faint from the way she talks (Fe polr).

    Here's an example of SLI/IEE duality imo:



    From the moment 10:43, SLI start getting embarassed (it was so awkward) when he asks him about how he feel about the word soulmate. IEEs are often aware that speaking about feelings, intimate words make SLIs embarassed so they don't mention them and they're kept hidden, I don't feel that in Cindy video. I feel like if she was with an SLI it would be very awkward. EIEs forte is expressing feelings in the most beautiful way. And SLIs are very shy about that. Cindy just from her behaviors (which are Fe imo) could make SLI very embarassed and she seems like she's trying to make her husband express some feelings by behaving that way, and he doesn't seem bothered with it (which shows Ti leading).
    She also she said she's a control freak and that is like opposite of IEE. If SLIs hear that you will never see them again. They value their freedom more than anything. And also the testing her husband thing is not characteristic of IEEs at all. I think IEEs are more likely to trust and see your postive traits and start idealizing them. If you disappoint them, they willl leave, they usually don't know what they want. While EIEs have those requirements of a partner (like she was speaking), testing him and trying to figure out if he can handle her insanity.
    That video screams EIE/LSI duality like tallmo said.
    Last edited by Kernel; 02-25-2018 at 09:22 PM.

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    @Daisy, there are two sub-types of IEE. There is the Ne variety, which is totally random and childish like the woman in the OP's video and like my ex-wife's sister, and then there is the the Fi variety, which is totally serious and yearning to be with an adult. My bookkeeper is the Fi-variety.

    My son is an SLI-Te, and he always thought his IEE-Ne aunt was too random, un-serious, and too much Spongebob-Squarepants to ever be attractive as a type. When I first told him about duality and the fact that his aunt was his dual, he recoiled, because he typically tries to make himself absent when she visits his mother.

    When I hired a bookkeeper and found that she was totally an IEE but was completely down to earth and not as obviously random as my ex-sister-in-law, I was kind of surprised at the difference and could see that she and my SLI-Te son would get along very well (even romantically if they weren't so different in age). She is an Infantile, but instead of it coming out in her acting childishly, it comes out in her (she told me this) being willing to take "care" of someone, but only if they first demonstrate that they are an adult and can take care of her first.

    She is very responsible, but not that great at Te, unfortunately. I think her association with bookkeeping was a result of Te-seeking, or maybe she just needed a job that she could do while also raising her kids, because her ILE husband is no help at all there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    I'm probably Delta NF and I would never act that way, IEEs are more like subtle in the way they talk about feelings. I feel that if an SLI was there, he would probably faint from the way she talks (Fe polr).
    I live with two IEEs, several more in the past, and I've well witnessed this slipping through in their behavior. They would deny it if anyone directly tells them that's how they behave, much like 'victim' types often consider it an upfront to be called victims. Nevertheless, there is something about her behavior that does not go along with how Betas usually communicate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    Here's an example of SLI/IEE duality imo:


    From the moment 10:43, SLI start getting embarassed (it was so awkward) when he asks him about how he feel about the word soulmate. IEEs are often aware that speaking about feelings, intimate words make SLIs embarassed so they don't mention them and they're kept hidden, I don't feel that in Cindy video. I feel like if she was with an SLI it would be very awkward. EIEs forte is expressing feelings in the most beautiful way. And SLIs are very shy about that. Cindy just from her behaviors (which are Fe imo) could make SLI very embarassed and she seems like she's trying to make her husband express some feelings by behaving that way, and he doesn't seem bothered with it (which shows Ti leading).
    She also she said she's a control freak and that is like opposite of IEE. If SLIs hear that you will never see them again. They value their freedom more than anything. And also the testing her husband thing is not characteristic of IEEs at all. I think IEEs are more likely to trust and see your postive traits and start idealizing them. If you disappoint them, they willl leave, they usually don't know what they want. While EIEs have those requirements of a partner (like she was speaking), testing him and trying to figure out if he can handle her insanity.
    That video screams EIE/LSI duality.
    I love these relationship analysis videos so thank you for posting that.

    In my experience, it is not true that dual types are immediately comfortable with each other. In nearly all of Russian socionics sources duality is referred to as a difficult relationship, starting from the complete ignoring of each other and ending with and the initial period is often referred to as "grinding". This is not surprising considering that duality is describe as a "union and conflict of the opposites" where the conflict part gets ignored, to the effect that some assume that any socionics duals are supposed to get along. As such, I do not see how a video of a SLI feeling embarrassed in a social situation involving people he's not familiar with proves anything either way. It's a pretty normal response for introverts, and even extroverts who feel themselves in a socially hostile situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke
    I live with two IEEs, several more in the past, and I've well witnessed this slipping through in their behavior. They would deny it if anyone directly tells them that's how they behave, much like 'victim' types often consider it an upfront to be called victims. Nevertheless, there is something about her behavior that does not go along with how Betas usually communicate.
    Not really wanting to get in a big debate about this, but I know a female IEE who sometimes can become 'pushy', but really it's short lasting and comes from stress or being sensitive (socionics would say influenced by role, unvalued Se), so it's not a standard character trait which for Joseph it is. Everyone can and does behave out of their norm from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange
    @Daisy, there are two sub-types of IEE. There is the Ne variety, which is totally random and childish like the woman in the OP's video and my ex-wife's sister, and then there is the the Fi variety, which is totally serious and yearning to be with an adult. My bookkeeper is the Fi-variety.
    My opinion is that sub type is sub type and shouldn't be used to explain different type.



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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    In my experience, it is not true that dual types are immediately comfortable with each other. In nearly all of Russian socionics sources duality is referred to as a difficult relationship, starting from the complete ignoring of each other and ending with and the initial period is often referred to as "grinding". This is not surprising considering that duality is describe as a "union and conflict of the opposites" where the conflict part gets ignored, to the effect that some assume that any socionics duals are supposed to get along.
    I agree with all this as I also see duality as a difficult relationship at first, because duals are very different and it needs time to get used to each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    As such, I do not see how a video of a SLI feeling embarrassed in a social situation involving people he's not familiar with proves anything either way. It's a pretty normal response for introverts, and even extroverts who feel themselves in a socially hostile situation
    The video shows that SLIs start feeling awkward when relations or feelings are talked about directly which is what I feel Cindy can do at any time (express her feelings). Fi is more subdued. I wanted to point out how Cindy mannerisms and behaviors are Fe. IEEs Fe is there but it is used in a way that it's less likely to hit the polr of SLIs, it can sometimes but not as much as an Fe dom, which I see in Cindy a lot. I am with the opinion that demonstrative function is the function that is most obvious in a person and it's pretty clear in IEEs, but for Cindy... It seems dominant to me, like she puts so much focus on it, uses and shows it all the time. IEEs Fe comes and goes. IEEs are more of understanding people, I think they suck at expressing feelings (at least not like EIEs) and that's true for Fi ego types. Feelings are better kept hidden. I in some way don't and can't see that in Cindy. There are also plenty signs that she's more of an EJ, beta, Se/Ni valuing.... The behaviors you mentioned can also be learned behaviors, romance styles can be misleading. I've seen ESEs behave that way too. So maybe ESE haha? Though from that last video she seems to me an Se/Ni valuer.
    Last edited by Kernel; 02-25-2018 at 11:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Daisy, there are two sub-types of IEE. There is the Ne variety, which is totally random and childish like the woman in the OP's video and like my ex-wife's sister, and then there is the the Fi variety, which is totally serious and yearning to be with an adult. My bookkeeper is the Fi-variety.

    My son is an SLI-Te, and he always thought his IEE-Ne aunt was too random, un-serious, and too much Spongebob-Squarepants to ever be attractive as a type. When I first told him about duality and the fact that his aunt was his dual, he recoiled, because he typically tries to make himself absent when she visits his mother.

    When I hired a bookkeeper and found that she was totally an IEE but was completely down to earth and not as obviously random as my ex-sister-in-law, I was kind of surprised at the difference and could see that she and my SLI-Te son would get along very well (even romantically if they weren't so different in age). She is an Infantile, but instead of it coming out in her acting childishly, it comes out in her (she told me this) being willing to take "care" of someone, but only if they first demonstrate that they are an adult and can take care of her first.

    She is very responsible, but not that great at Te, unfortunately. I think her association with bookkeeping was a result of Te-seeking, or maybe she just needed a job that she could do while also raising her kids, because her ILE husband is no help at all there.
    i mean this is all very interesting, but meged and ocharav who created much of the subtype idea and are SLI IEE themselves would say Te and Ne subtypes are more compatible not less

    taken together with silke's post I don't think your experience is invalid, per se, but that they're actually compatible in the final analysis, just not at first

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