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Thread: Reddit ISFj type description

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    Default Reddit ISFj type description

    I have not read this in great detail--leaving it up to Gammas to sift through.
    The Fi,Se type in MBTI is called ISFP.


    https://www.reddit.com/r/mbti/commen..._look_at_isfp/

    The FiS type in my opinion is the most misunderstood type in the typology community, followed by ISTJ. According to intertype relationships, ISFP is the type I should understand the least so this will be as much of a challenge for me as for you.

    By the way when I say ISFP in this post I am referring to ISFP-ESI. Fi-Se. There are statically only 16 types in my model and even though comparing most descriptions ISFP corresponds more or less to SEI, by convention I relate them that way and to Jung's Fi type with auxiliary sensing. Oh and obviously, when I said “followed by ISTJ” I’m referring to the SiT type

    You can simply see how they’re the most misunderstood if you compare all the Myers or 16p profiles with its functional correspondent in socionics, you'll see that ISFP differs the most from ESI. They are two extremes that are both wrong in their own way, in reality ISFPs are only in the middle spectrum of it.

    The way I see ISFP is as some sort of ethical guardian, dominant Fi gives them really strong values that they stand up for and auxiliary Se is a tool for them to directly implement them into concrete action. Their mission is to take direct steps at punishing evil and injustice, or alternatively, at promoting goodness and justice in the world by concrete actions. This would then mean they have a superhero main character ego if my assumptions are correct, which could also fit with the MBTI-based “main character” stereotype as well as the socionics upholder of traditions stereotype.

    It is often said their life mission is to "paint/color the world around them with their values" or something like that; Couldn't be any more true, but you have to look at the other side of what that statement implies as well: Painting the world around you with values could mean being artistic or whatever but could as well imply being the critical granny who imposes politeness and manners strictly onto kids. “Painting” quickly turns into imposing and the colorful “values” quickly turn into traditions and manners. Both of these kinds of people are ISFPs. What your cognitive functions determine is simply what kind of information you work with and how, how it manifests more specifically and in what context is heavily affected by subtype, culture, age/generation… etc…

    I’d still disagree on the extreme of the ultimate upholder of traditions ESI stereotype, just look at this description I found by… Reinin I think? Source

    “Ethical-sensoric introverts (ESI) are real stoics and guardians of moral principles of society. There are many lawyers, investigators, doctors and teachers among them. ESI women are known for upholding family values, and bearing the burden of a career, house chores and raising children without a complaint.”

    This probably only applies to the minority of 5-6% ISFPs in the world, not even my mother (who is the kind of traditional/conservative ISFP) would relate completely to that description and agree it’s an accurate representation of her overall personality (although reading all 16 on that link she’d probably relate to ISFP the most).

    Another one of this double perspective methods can be applied as well to other stuff. Read carefully because the next few paragraphs are important: It’s often said ISFPs are poets or artists, metaphorical and expressive. Sure, it is correct, but it doesn’t always manifest how you think. It can look deep and artistic as in “this act represents an expression of that boy’s soul blah blah poetic shit” but it might as well manifest the other way, I’ll give a real life example: My ISFP history teacher got mad one day because (in her opinion) of my own impoliteness and lack of ceremoniousness, the bell didn’t ring yet and she didn’t leave the class but there were still 3-4 minutes left; my Ne-Ti said that the logical priority is to prepare to pack my stuff in the backpack earlier by now because we stopped writing and were only talking (didn’t need my books on the table from that point in time on), her Fi fed by Ni metaphors/symbolism said that this represents a sign of disrespect for the teacher, even though it’s logically efficient to pack your stuff minutes before so that you can get out of class, and, thus, save time (my Ti), this doesn’t matter to the ISFP, this represents to them a sign of disrespect that you want to get out of there faster because you don’t care about what the teacher’s saying (her Fi).

    An ISFP’s thought process will start at Ni (metaphors/associations), get filtered through Fi (“the symbolism of your act represents a sign of disrespect for the teacher!”) and gets out/implemented through Se (concrete forceful action aimed towards teaching a Fi lesson: “YOU DISRESPECTFUL LITTLE SHIT YOU’RE GONNA GET DETENTION!”).

    An ENTP’s thought process will start at Fe (“Am I hurting anybody? It doesn’t seem so.”), get filtered through Ne (“Ok the possibilities are as follows: I could wait until the class ends or I could start packing my things up by now or I could… etc.”) and gets implemented through Ti (logical prioritizing: “I waste less time if I start packing my things up now and not later thus allowing me to do more things thus it logically follows that it’s best to pack my things now”).

    In reality those are simply two different approaches and neither were wrong, it just shows the incompatibility between NTPs and ISFPs. So, are ISFPs poetic artists? Yes, their thought process shows so. Are they ethical guardians of tradition? It seems like they are as that as well, or at least that’s how it looks from the outside.

    Also sociotype.com suggests they’re confrontational. I’ll analyze the conception of how ESIs are confrontational or not and in what ways. As u/peppermint-kiss said, while ISFPs may endure physical confrontation more than, say, INFPs even INFPs are generally more confrontational than ISFPs. Their Se is supervised by Fi so that means that Se won’t freely do what it wants but will obey what Fi tells Se to do (in an ISFP), so while they can be, most of the time they simply are not because usually the agenda of Fi doesn’t require being so. The way they use Se is to output Fi’s goal so I’d rather say they can be strict, severe or punishing (they CAN BE, that doesn’t mean that all of them are but let’s say about half of them are), but they won’t be confrontational unless the situation requires them to, and most of the time the situation doesn’t require them to, you need to push them REALLY hard for them to lose control or become violent or aggressive.

    Also, they are probably the least confrontational type with people they don’t know well, although willing to have a civilized discussion, they’ll only raise a scandal if it’s for protecting/standing up for a friend (so the person is not affiliated with the ISFP) or when they have no affiliation with the person (that doesn’t mean if they’re strangers but it means if they have “nothing to do” with that person, for example the more they want to get something out of that situation/the more it is important to them, the less likely they are to raise a scandal or become confrontational with people they label as “them” and not “our own”). And if it hasn’t become clear yet, ISFPs sharply divide people into “them” and “our own”, and they can be confrontational with people of “our own” (usually family members and close friends) (how confrontational depends on subtype) in a parent-like way, to teach them a lesson (by imposing their opinions and values onto them) “I know what’s best for you and you’ll thank me later for it*”, *this is what ‘good parent’ Se is like in the Beebe model’. (the Beebe model is that model which calls the function critical parent, trickster, devilish etc. and calls them “Shadow functions”). The reason ISFPs don’t apply good parent Se to people “others” is because their Se is supervised by Fi-. Fi- is the function that sharply divides people into ‘our own’ or not and for ISFPs, Se is a parent-like function so they won’t use Se- to parent strangers (unless, like I said, they’re standing up for someone who they took “under their wing” which then lets Se manifest as a parent-like “good parent” function).

    **: That could as well be critical parent Se in ESxJs, but it manifests in a different way than good parent Se (usually demonstrative Se is more negative than auxiliary Se but not always), although I’ll not go in depth here about ESxJs since this post is about ISFPs and if needed I’ll make a separate post describing the difference in Se between ISxPs and ESxJs. Just keep in mind if they say something like “I know what’s best for you and you’ll thank me later for it” they’re either ISTP, ISFP, ESFJ or ESTJ.

    Dominant Fi as we know implies some sort of vulnerability while Se implies some sort of aggression so it would only make sense that the two combined would result in "distancing" or cautiousness in relationships like socionics said. Dominant Fi/inferior Te represses “toughness” and lets true feelings take over logic while auxiliary Se doesn’t want to look like a pussy, basically. This would only make sense to result in cautiousness, sharpness, appearing cold on the outside, and all of those socionics ESI stereotypes.

    My current Romanian teacher I would find as a textbook example to use to get your understanding of how ISFPs are because she doesn't fit at all into either of the extremes of MBTI artistic free spirit or socionics traditional strict punishing mother and upholder of traditions but I could see her relate to both at least a slight bit: She being a Romanian teacher (the equivalent of an English teacher for all you 'Muricans, a native language teacher so grammar and literature basically) is basically in a Fi dom's natural habitat teaching that subject: Expresses her thought process freely when analyzing the poems and seems somehow easy going*** although distant**** and unemotional/balanced, speaks calmly and self-controlled (ISFPs NEVER speak in the alpha quadra recalcitrant/irreverent sort of way), and pretty forgiving and chill with us*** to a limit (this depends on an ISFP’s subtype though), although she’d be the kind of person that you’d imagine could be severe with their kids and more chill or unconcerned with the class***.

    ***: This is because when ISFPs impose their values or are strict with someone they think they are actually doing something good for them (while ESJs think they are punishing them for something), so it would only make sense for them to be less strict/severe with “others” than with people of “their own”, because they don’t really care about “others” and lack of disciplining is actually a sign of unconcern for ISFPs (good parent Se) so that way they show their unconcern with strangers. Whether they actually end up being strict as teachers isn't related directly to them being ISFP but to what their job personally means to the ISFP. This could be influenced by subtype (how seriously they take their job).

    ****: From Gulenko: “ESI first draws near to a person, then moves away, seeming to probe the individual from all sides, cutting off those who could let them down.”. It is characteristic of ISFPs to act really distant and cold and then the first chance they get to be with one of those persons in a different context they suddenly become much more familiar and informal to them, that way “testing” the people to analyze how they behave and see if they should be trusted. My Romanian teacher seems to do this, although if someone is ISFP that doesn’t mean you ever saw them do it but if you saw someone do that then you can be sure they’re most likely ISFP (or maybe ENFP). He also states it’s very likely for them to test how people react with a prank, and it makes sense.

    IF YOU’RE LOW ON TIME YOU CAN READ UP UNTIL THIS POINT AND NOT READ BELOW CUZ THE POST GOT LONGER THAN I WANTED IT TO

    edit: Fun fact about ISFP and manners/ceremoniousness: The first thing that comes to mind when I saw ISFP is those funny scenarios in comedy movies/shows (I remember one was in an episode of Regular Show) when someone is at an elegant restaurant and they have to choose between three forks "which one is the salad fork, which one is the desert fork" and everyone is staring at them intensively to see if they get it right lol. That doesn't mean that all ISFPs are retarded with forks, ENTPs make up convoluted and unusual theories right, but other ENTPs are the first ones to disagree and try to prove them wrong as well, right? I'd imagine while all people who seriously do that are most likely ISFPs, not all ISFPs do that at all, actually other, probably younger, ISFPs would be the first one to disagree and say they're exaggerating. What being ISFP means is simply elegance and ceremoniousness in certain carefully chosen areas. Think of French people, think of a man with a beret on speaking in an overly-french accent talking about how grandonissimo their art is and how ceremonious and artistic some shit is. You can see how the French beret artist is right in between the artistic ISFP stereotype and the traditionalist ESI stereotype. All 3 are just different kinds of ISFPs: The upholder of traditions ESI who beats you if you don't know that salad and meat are not eaten with the same fork is looking at ceremoniousness and manners in everyday life, the French beret dude is looking at elegance in a mime or something and the artistic MBTI ISFP is looking at perfection and grandiosity in art. 3 different ways how FiSeNiTe could manifest.

    Because that's what Fi is. Fi tells us to treat ourselves better than what survival demands (introverted: comparing things with each other; feeling=energy emitted between entities; Fi=how much you empower others, how much power you have in comparison to others) and auxiliary Se implements them into direct action, it looks at how we treat ourselves better in everyday life (sensing) rather than in the big issues (like feminist INFPs, FOR EXAMPLE).

    I have to say I agree with the socionics perspective that they have an extremely high sense of duty, commitment is all the way in the agenda of Fi, commitment is a judgment, 100% a decision so there's no way commitment could be Si, which is an irrational/perceiving function.

    Also, personalityjunkie, ISFPs are not optimistic…. or at least definitely not any more optimistic than INFPs.. Read what Fi- (ISFP) is like compared to Fi+ (INFP). Btw, that profile is shit, mostly because what they call ISFP is ISFJ (for the most part) and what they call ISFJ is sort of ISFP (for the most part again), although there is a lot of overlapping which makes it even worse since you can’t switch them and use the ISFJ profile as a reference of how ISFPs are either.

    If I had to choose what I’d find the best ISFP profiles right now (obviously including this post) I’d say

    1. Gulenko’s profile (as with all types)

    2. This one: https://archives.asclaria.org/arende....com/ISFP.html (with some mistakes here and there)

    3. This post: https://www.stellarmaze.com/isfp-bul...llied-or-both/ (with some mistakes as well)

    The socionics approaches such as the sociotype.com ESI description or the wikisocion ESI composite are too exaggerated in my opinion while the MBTI-based ones are straight up horrible, most of the time.

    I tried to leave out information about artistic abilities and creativity as much as possible because I’m not sure exactly how it manifests, I’m still trying to figure it out myself. However what I can do is copy-paste some conversations I had with u/doctormolotov and others about the subject:

    molo: “ISFP societies are conservative. Vulnerable Ne- leads to distrust of alternatives. ‘There's one right way for people to be!’”. After other European countries are accepting of gay people for a while they will change their mind. ISFPs just need other people to do a thing first and see it works before they try it.” This is how France legalized gay marriage.

    Me: “So I suppose Romania (an isfp culture) will legalize weed in about 10 years because ISFP cultures just copy that other European cultures do it as well?

    molo: Oh definitely. And we'll just pretend like it's normal and it was always this way. Gay marriage too.

    peppermint: it's funny because even though Romania is often described as conservative, I feel like all of the conservative political opinions are kind of...placeholders, like outfits they wear until they can admit that actually they don't care as soon as it's not socially dangerous to do so.

    molo: That's exactly how it is. Just like France changed back and forth from radical to traditionalistic 20 times and each time the majority was super in favor. It's just trends/aesthetics basically.”

    Someone else (who is isfp): “I'm having an identity crisis. What makes isfps important to society?”

    Molo: “Trends and beliefs in society are in large parts decided by ISFPs. Both introducing a new trend in to popularity and preserving an older tradition from phasing out are ISFP jobs.”

    Me: “How can they be the ones to START them if they never try things that are not done by someone else? Being the starter of a trend means you try things that no one else has tried before (which I suppose is Ne - breakthrough discoveries) but that doesn't align with what you said about vulnerable Ne-.”

    Molo: ” They don't only care about what's socially appropriate. They like to creep people out. ISFPs are way more daring in regards to Art and philosophy than in any other domain. But even there what they mostly do is recombine things that exist but no one cares about into a package that has huge mass appeal. Skrillex didn't set out to make a new genre. He just made dubstep but in an ISFP way. And while dubstep before was a super obscure genre his stuff was hugely popular. So popular that people had to come with a new name for it (bro-step) to differentiate it from normal dubstep. (..) Anyway, I can tell you for sure ISFPs are the way I described. The rest is up to you.”

    PS: I live in Romania, an ISFP culture, so if you want to have another perspective of ISFPs you can compare Romanian culture with French culture, both really different cultures who are both ISFP because the more different two people or two cultures of the same type are then the more likely it is that the only things they have in common is only what the actual type represents.

    edit: added the edit fun fact about ceremoniousness and elegance

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    fka lungs ashlesha's Avatar
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    This is all over the place

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    that poster is literally a 15 year old kid who reposts basic sources in a random fashion; the commentary is horrible and strictly inferior to just reading the sources. its weird that he imported his own personal brand to reddit since the only merit to any of that are the direct rips from real socionists. oh well, everyone already knew the mbti community is super gullible

    From Gulenko: “ESI first draws near to a person, then moves away, seeming to probe the individual from all sides, cutting off those who could let them down.”
    this is true to some degree of all holographic types, but they go about it in characteristic ways. the ESI thing is more about how dominant rationality copes with painful Ne (doubt) in an ethical context with Se creative. you could say the exact same thing about IEE except they don't cut them off entirely because less Se and doubt is less painful (so they leave it more open ended, requires less rational closure), but all the holographic types are in some sense psychologists. SLE is a big pessimist but draws boxes around categories of people they don't understand and just assume the worst or accounts for the x factor in various other ham fisted ways, I have an SLE that loves to say "people will let you down" as if its some revelation--to him it really was. LII can go either full gulenko (by this I mean devote their life to developing a complete and accurate system of people) or just get a waifu, etc
    Last edited by Bertrand; 02-15-2018 at 07:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeves View Post
    The Fi,Se type in MBTI is called ISFP.
    MBT uses dichotomies as the main typing way and hence ISFP is SEI
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    @yeves You're romanian too? Saluuuuut.
    I didn't know that this country has an ESI culture.
    Foarte interesant.
    4w3 7w6 9w1 so/sx

    "You see, there are still faint glimmers of civilization left in this barbaric slaughterhouse that was once known as humanity. Indeed that's what we provide in our own modest, humble, insignificant... oh, fuck it."

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    The easiest and most simple way to identify ESI is to focus on the 3 basic behaviors. If someone never smiles, never laughs and never offer apologies they are probably an ESI.

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    lol this reminds me of the time I told Sol I never lie

    the logical conclusion here is that ESI doesn't exist because everyone smiles at some point, not that you may be exaggerating

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    lol this reminds me of the time I told Sol I never lie

    the logical conclusion here is that ESI doesn't exist because everyone smiles at some point, not that you may be exaggerating
    I digress........If someone rarely laughs, rarely smiles and NEVER apologizes they are ESI

    I work with 2 ESI women who I have never seen laugh, I swear. Smile or two but laughter never. But I have only known them for 5 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny Dreadful View Post
    @yeves You're romanian too? Saluuuuut.
    I didn't know that this country has an ESI culture.
    Foarte interesant.
    I didn't write that post. Sorry for confusion!
    This was posted on reddit by Lastrevio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    I digress........If someone rarely laughs, rarely smiles and NEVER apologizes they are ESI

    I work with 2 ESI women who I have never seen laugh, I swear. Smile or two but laughter never. But I have only known them for 5 years.
    Very strange to me. I love to laugh when something is actually funny. Also when I hang out with LIEs or SEEs I’ll laugh a lot.

    Another thing: I wouldn’t say I apologize constantly but I definitely apologize when something is my fault and being ESI and quite self critical I usually know exactly what I’ve done wrong.
    On that point it could be my Delta parents’ upbringing because I was raised to believe apology is ethically important. My LSI brother rarely apologizes though, and my LSI female cousin has a terrible time ever apologizing for any reason to the point of offensiveness.

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    he was joking

    you're right about beta though. If you think of delta as the types that are always apologizing, their opposites are beta who never do, usually life moves them toward eachother, so deltas are likely to be those types that preach to apologize less, whereas betas are the ones in church where its all about self sacrifice and giving up the ego. whats happening is both groups seem somewhat hypocritical, because deltas will continue apologizing like canadians non stop for everything, and betas will only ever talk about actually apologizing at church or some other organized speaking event, but its nevertheless precisely what each camp needs to hear. it always just sounds funny from the side though, like if you're gamma both camps seem odd in their own way, because apologizing isn't some major life hurdle (although there are others for gamma). it is said the unconscious ideal of a type is their contrary or extinguishment relation, and their super ego is their conscious way to move in that direction. in that sense beta does what delta is trying to get more of, and vice versa, hence their moral talk revolves around that axis

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    Very strange to me. I love to laugh when something is actually funny. Also when I hang out with LIEs or SEEs I’ll laugh a lot.

    Another thing: I wouldn’t say I apologize constantly but I definitely apologize when something is my fault and being ESI and quite self critical I usually know exactly what I’ve done wrong.
    Well to be truthful they never laugh or smile with me. Very buttoned up around me........a little more loose around others. Not jovial or attention seeking, but subtly different when I am around. Again it's a strange relationship with both. Both were standoffish from the jump. I was the new employee and they never have shown any grace. ESI is just my gut judgement for them. I have ESI'ed a few others but they come off as shy and polite, instead of unpleasant and outright unfriendly. Not trying to generalize ESI. I reflexively type women who are introverts not using Fe as ESI until further inspection.........which may be flawed Oddly don't get any duality vibes with them. but our interactions are very superficial.......formal professionalism.

    I'm working with 3 assumptions...........I am LIE, they are ESI and socionics scholarship has merit. I think everyone on this site recognizes that merit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    I reflexively type women who are introverts not using Fe as ESI until further inspection.........which may be flawed Oddly don't get any duality vibes with them. but our interactions are very superficial.......formal professionalism.

    I'm working with 3 assumptions...........I am LIE, they are ESI and socionics scholarship has merit. I think everyone on this site recognizes that merit.
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say some of your ESI typings may be a bit suspect. ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    Very strange to me. I love to laugh when something is actually funny. Also when I hang out with LIEs or SEEs I’ll laugh a lot.

    Another thing: I wouldn’t say I apologize constantly but I definitely apologize when something is my fault and being ESI and quite self critical I usually know exactly what I’ve done wrong.
    On that point it could be my Delta parents’ upbringing because I was raised to believe apology is ethically important. My LSI brother rarely apologizes though, and my LSI female cousin has a terrible time ever apologizing for any reason to the point of offensiveness.
    It can be the Fi subtype. My Fi-ESI friend apologizes always and is very aware of herself, but she's not aware of others faults, so people can easily make her feel guilty because she focuses more on her behavior.

    I have an IEE friend (Delta) who never apologizes even if he knows that he is at fault, he used to blame the Fi-ESI for many things, and she would feel guilty and the thought that he wronged her wouldn't cross her mind. Like she only saw her mistakes and her behaviors and judged them, she didn't focus on other's mistakes much. The most important thing for her is that she doesn't do anything unethical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    It can be the Fi subtype. My Fi-ESI friend apologizes always and is very aware of herself, but she's not aware of others faults, so people can easily make her feel guilty because she focuses more on her behavior.

    I have an IEE friend (Delta) who never apologizes even if he knows that he is at fault, he used to blame the Fi-ESI for many things, and she would feel guilty and the thought that he wronged her wouldn't cross her mind. Like she only saw her mistakes and her behaviors and judged them, she didn't focus on other's mistakes much. The most important thing for her is that she doesn't do anything unethical.
    ESIs, like most Ijs, do tend to look inward a lot and can be rather self-critical whereas IEEs, like most Eps, do so only on rare occasions. I can see Eps not even noticing their own mistakes because they're so focused on what's out there; often, they have to be stopped and told to slow down. However, all types are capable of playing the victim or blaming others, but these are learned behaviours.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    @hatesyardwork you seem to perceive ESIs the same way an EIE I know does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    Very strange to me. I love to laugh when something is actually funny. Also when I hang out with LIEs or SEEs I’ll laugh a lot.

    Another thing: I wouldn’t say I apologize constantly but I definitely apologize when something is my fault and being ESI and quite self critical I usually know exactly what I’ve done wrong.
    On that point it could be my Delta parents’ upbringing because I was raised to believe apology is ethically important. My LSI brother rarely apologizes though, and my LSI female cousin has a terrible time ever apologizing for any reason to the point of offensiveness.
    Yes I think what hatesyardwork meant was they never laugh out loud at work, which makes sense.

    Also in my experience ESIs sometimes have trouble apologizing for big things, yet apologize for minor things easier. For example if they didn't answer your calls for a week they'll apologize for having some troubles etc but if they have said very extreme hurtful things in an argument which they shouldn't have had said they don't apologize once relations get back to normal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say some of your ESI typings may be a bit suspect. ;-)
    Wow. Those words are so ESI.. "maybe" "a bit" and putting a nose for smileys! Sorry to interrupt that was an exciting observation (:

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb and say some of your ESI typings may be a bit suspect. ;-)
    I did say my methodology is flawed.
    I try to use a generalized crib sheet. I assume they are feelers and introverts and not intuitives from observation and then try to generalize Fe of Fi valuing...........I connect the dots and voila said Sheila is and ESI. I am pretty objective about others to be truthful, I had a lot more trouble with my own self typing. Ex. I always thought myself introverted, yet everyone I know considers me very outgoing, so self perception can be difficult. I am always surprised how others see me vs how I perceive myself. It's always 180 degrees. I find others more black and white and size them up pretty quickly.
    I'll be bold enough to say both ESI are Se subtypes from sourced readings on this site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    @hatesyardwork you seem to perceive ESIs the same way an EIE I know does.
    Lol Funny, I work with an EIE who rolls her eyes when I mention them. She doesn't speak to either of them anymore for reasons she won't explain, just made it obvious they burned her somehow. She's got a thing against those in our office who are rude to others and burn bridges. Not singling out these 2 ESI, my job is full of assholes of all types. Very female heavy office.

    Women often speak to men in a way and in a tone that men never don't tolerate from other men. Fights happen when men speak to men the way some women feel free to. Don't freak out ladies, this is the opinion of many men. Women can cross lines that other men know not to.

    Not a condemnation of ESI or women........but I know I'll get shit anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Yes I think what hatesyardwork meant was they never laugh out loud at work, which makes sense.

    Also in my experience ESIs sometimes have trouble apologizing for big things, yet apologize for minor things easier. For example if they didn't answer your calls for a week they'll apologize for having some troubles etc but if they have said very extreme hurtful things in an argument which they shouldn't have had said they don't apologize once relations get back to normal.
    2 thumbs up. Well said, the small shit is easy, the big shit........let's pretend that I didn't do that because I can't believe I did and I hope you have the grace to eat my shit and not expect me to apologize.

    I just gave you soulful, guilty and submissive eye contact, can't you tell I'm sorry from that? Actually no.

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    @hatesyardwork Lol. It is said that your dual might irritate you at first. I think the EIE I know perceive ESIs as kind of boring, unemotional, judgmental, not liking change, too simple... EIE seems to generalize those traits on all ESIs, like even typing many people who appears cold as ESI and yeah like you said which is flawed. EIE also complains about lack of Fe types (at least in our country) and seems to perceive the world full of cold, unemotional females (aka ESI lol).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    @hatesyardwork Lol. It is said that your dual might irritate you at first. I think the EIE I know perceive ESIs as kind of boring, unemotional, judgmental, not liking change, too simple... EIE seems to generalize those traits on all ESIs, like even typing many people who appears cold as ESI and yeah like you said which is flawed. EIE also complains about lack of Fe types (at least in our country) and seems to perceive the world full of cold, unemotional females (aka ESI lol).
    EIE i know has great instincts and we both seem to like and dislike the same people. She's not into typololgy although I have discussed it with her and told her the type I thought she was. Thought it might interest her but it did not. We have some drag out fights sometimes but it's never personal. Tough and fair. Principled. She's a good egg. Almost too giving, and others take her for granted. We astonish each other with our insights into people. Very smart woman. We both have the same tendency of taking a few small behaviors to be indicative of people's general character. I have contempt for the stupid and lazy, she has contempt for the cold and selfish. These type of people I never find fascinating. I find the EIE fascinating.

    Side note. Her daughters were gymnasts and were seen by Dr Larry Nasser who was the US Gymnastics doctor who molested tons of girls. Just got sentenced to life in prison. Her daughters saw him once and only once because the EIE said she knew he was "creepy and manipulative the moment he opened his mouth" She reads people instantly. This was years ago but her instincts told her something was wrong. She wouldn't let her kids be alone with him. US Gymnastics and Michigan State University protected him for decades messing with young girls. I take her word as gospel with respect to her views of others.

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    Haha! @Zero, Why is the smiley-face nose indicative of ESI? Se in action?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsTortilla View Post
    Haha! @Zero, Why is the smiley-face nose indicative of ESI? Se in action?
    Yeah maybe Se, cause it looks more realistic but also Fi since it looks kinder (more mature even). Also LSIs don't use that. But SEEs use : )))))) which I suppose is a really fat guy smiling? I use (: instead of : ) because usually sites change it to without my permission and I don't like that haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatesyardwork View Post
    EIE i know has great instincts and we both seem to like and dislike the same people. She's not into typololgy although I have discussed it with her and told her the type I thought she was. Thought it might interest her but it did not. We have some drag out fights sometimes but it's never personal. Tough and fair. Principled. She's a good egg. Almost too giving, and others take her for granted. We astonish each other with our insights into people. Very smart woman. We both have the same tendency of taking a few small behaviors to be indicative of people's general character. I have contempt for the stupid and lazy, she has contempt for the cold and selfish. These type of people I never find fascinating. I find the EIE fascinating.

    Side note. Her daughters were gymnasts and were seen by Dr Larry Nasser who was the US Gymnastics doctor who molested tons of girls. Just got sentenced to life in prison. Her daughters saw him once and only once because the EIE said she knew he was "creepy and manipulative the moment he opened his mouth" She reads people instantly. This was years ago but her instincts told her something was wrong. She wouldn't let her kids be alone with him. US Gymnastics and Michigan State University protected him for decades messing with young girls. I take her word as gospel with respect to her views of others.
    I see. The EIE I know used to force her opinions about people and tell me to believe them like she was a messenger from god that can read people so well, but I most of the time didn't agree with her (which irritated her) because for me her insights about people were almost always negative and I kind of saw them as limiting, she kind of only saw the bad in people, I just had that desire to leave whenever she talked about them, talking with her I have started to mistrust people and I just wanted that to stop as I prefer to not judge anyone before knowing them well. But I agree that EIEs can have great insight, though I don't think they are always right. Sometimes they miss the point imo as we all do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    I see. The EIE I know used to force her opinions about people and tell me to believe them like she was a messenger from god that can read people so well, but I most of the time didn't agree with her (which irritated her) because for me her insights about people were almost always negative and I kind of saw them as limiting, she kind of only saw the bad in people, I just had that desire to leave whenever she talked about them, talking with her I have started to mistrust people and I just wanted that to stop as I prefer to not judge anyone before knowing them well. But I agree that EIEs can have great insight, though I don't think they are always right. Sometimes they miss the point imo as we all do.
    I like what you wrote here, rings true in regards to some of my interactions with said EIE. We often disagree about people because we interpret behaviors differently. It would be more correct to say I take some of her insights with a grain of salt because I have a different take on someones motivations for doing something. She can be rigid. But we both tend to get the same people who are not worth any kind of emotional investment or trust. Smart woman as I said so she does have a streak of absolutism in her statements at times. We have different takes on some of our direct supervisors. I know her well enough to not argue with her on some stuff because she can be inflexible. Agree to disagree. On whole she respects me and defends me to others because I rub a lot of people the wrong way just being me.

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