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Thread: Subtype matching or not in duality and activity

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    I don't play, I slay. Lolita's Avatar
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    I hope you don't still don't believe you're an ESI. Fi from ESI is totally different and also very silent.

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    My 1st subtype is normalizing, which is what I am most of the time. I'm either creative or dominant as my 2nd subtype, I'm leaning more towards C. I don't think I have what it takes to go from N sub to D and maintain it for longer durations outside of emergencies.

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    C-ESI-Se sx/sp ashlesha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolita View Post
    I hope you don't still don't believe you're an ESI. Fi from ESI is totally different and also very silent.
    blocked, i've said i'm enjoying the food for thought, but that's not good enuf because u want me to submit. stupid. no more listening

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    blocked, i've said i'm enjoying the food for thought, but that's not good enuf because u want me to submit. stupid. no more listening
    Typical. You want to play into your delusions that you're ESI when I've already said you're nothing like ESI from the start and you're not my mirror. People here do not know what a real ESI is like and I told you already, that Fi DOES NOT CARE about the collective opinion of their identity. You're just another Beta who wants to be something else that you've idealized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolita View Post
    You want to play into your delusions that you're ESI when I've already said you're nothing like ESI from the start
    ESI is close to correct LSI. Without IR effects to understand own type is not easy.
    I notice, ashlesha expresses more emotionality than LSI should. I relate this to other factors, as her nonverbal fits to LSI good. But for her the difference is not evident, as VI needs skills. By common behavior the difference between T/F is not clear in her case and without nonverbal I'd could doubt or to mistake. It's more doubtful than common to explain by her common behavior which we know here on the forum why she has T. While it's doubtful to convince about types even in common situations, as interpretations are significantly speculative and we know a little about those people.

    > Fi DOES NOT CARE about the collective opinion of their identity

    From types factor point the situation is opposite. What is a type is logical region. So T types have higher criticism about types and lesser possibility to be misleaded by other people.
    F types (especially base F) have more emotional relation to opinions, including in T regions where it's not appropriate. Compared to T types, F types easier accept opinions which they personally more like (Fi) or find more decent (Fe) and opinions which have people with such their emotional evaluations. And also people with F types show more than average of unreasonable negativism to logical region opinions which inspire more of negative emotions in them and to opinions which have people which are worse emotionally perceived by them.
    So "people with Fi types CARE about the collective opinion about their type" higher than average and the most when want to keep emotionally pleasant relations with those people. Also for them is important to emotionally like those opinions in more degree than for T types, what may be by reasons as to think good IR with someone.
    Se type would explain a scepsis about the a better. Situation when people have opinions about your inner psyche contents - Ne, to what Jung type relates too and psychology in general. Se types should lesser like to get "psychoanalysis" and such to have higher scepsis to opinions about their types. Then goes your emotional relations with people who expressed opinions, as if you'd got or wanted friendly relations with them - their opinion about your type would be become more weighty than for any of T types.

    "You want to play into your delusions that you're ESI when I've already said you're nothing like ESI from the start and you're not my mirror."

    You seem overesteemate the importance of speculative opinions. While allow emotions where it's not appropriate.
    Fi types tend to hold more polite. If you "don't care" about what other people think and feel to the degree of being so rude with them - you don't use strong traits of SEE. It's sad. Even in talking with T types, to establish or not ruin good emotions helps to convince, - they are just lesser sensetive to this. Good logical arguments (better than "you're nothing like") and positive emotions is what helps to convince people.
    For understanding correct types and having relatively good arguments needs to read books about types and to watch how people near you behave according to their types. The more of typed people and more communications with them - the better you'd understood types to talk about them. Also, I'd recommend to use only normal theory close to basics of Jung, as other theory (which is much used by Gulenko, for example) is doubtful to be correct.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    ESI is close to correct LSI. Without IR effects to understand own type is not easy.
    I notice, ashlesha expresses more emotionality than LSI should. I relate this to other factors, as her nonverbal fits to LSI good. But for her the difference is not evident, as VI needs skills. By common behavior the difference between T/F is not clear in her case and without nonverbal I'd could doubt or to mistake. It's more doubtful than common to explain by her common behavior which we know here on the forum why she has T. While it's doubtful to convince about types even in common situations, as interpretations are significantly speculative and we know a little about those people.
    Yeah, in your warped Beta God-complex LSI mind. LSI wants to be ESI because they know they don't have Fi to scale psychological distance and they act out like a whiny lil bitch Fe way when people don't follow their bullshit rules. LIKE YOU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    > Fi DOES NOT CARE about the collective opinion of their identity

    From types factor point the situation is opposite. What is a type is logical region. So T types have higher criticism about types and lesser possibility to be misleaded by other people.
    F types (especially base F) have more emotional relation to opinions, including in T regions where it's not appropriate. Compared to T types, F types easier accept opinions which they personally more like (Fi) or find more decent (Fe) and opinions which have people with such their emotional evaluations. And also people with F types show more than average of unreasonable negativism to logical region opinions which inspire more of negative emotions in them and to opinions which have people which are worse emotionally perceived by them.
    So "people with Fi types CARE about the collective opinion about their type" higher than average and the most when want to keep emotionally pleasant relations with those people. Also for them is important to emotionally like those opinions in more degree than for T types, what may be by reasons as to think good IR with someone.
    Se type would explain a scepsis about the a better. Situation when people have opinions about your inner psyche contents - Ne, to what Jung type relates too and psychology in general. Se types should lesser like to get "psychoanalysis" and such to have higher scepsis to opinions about their types. Then goes your emotional relations with people who expressed opinions, as if you'd got or wanted friendly relations with them - their opinion about your type would be become more weighty than for any of T types.
    WRONG. You act like your understanding of socionics is what socionics is. Typical LSI shit. You're NOT Te lead, you IGNORE Te because you favor whatever bullshit you arbitrarily come up with in your mind, rigidify the process and then say you know the rules and others don't. You forgot that I saw you AGREE with DarkAngelFireWolf69's LSI typing for Ashlesha.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    "You want to play into your delusions that you're ESI when I've already said you're nothing like ESI from the start and you're not my mirror."

    You seem overesteemate the importance of speculative opinions. While allow emotions where it's not appropriate.
    Fi types tend to hold more polite. If you "don't care" about what other people think and feel to the degree of being so rude with them - you don't use strong traits of SEE. It's sad. Even in talking with T types, to establish or not ruin good emotions helps to convince, - they are just lesser sensetive to this. Good logical arguments (better than "you're nothing like") and positive emotions is what helps to convince people.
    For understanding correct types and having relatively good arguments needs to read books about types and to watch how people near you behave according to their types. The more of typed people and more communications with them - the better you'd understood types to talk about them. Also, I'd recommend to use only normal theory close to basics of Jung, as other theory (which is much used by DarkAngelFireWolf69, for example) is doubtful to be correct.
    WRONG again. Your rigid system is bullshit. You don't even understand Jung or socionics and just want to impose your bullshit rules. You're boxed in with you think and you want to box others into it, just like every other LSI. You support Kassie's delusions because you already recognize she's LSI like you who feed off their delusional Ti and feed off it when they get Fe validation. Reality means nothing to you. Betas only live in their fucked up minds and want to suck everyone into their world. If something doesn't fit into your system, then it's wrong. NO. That brain dead cow is not ESI and you'll never be LSE. You're fucking scared to get typed by DarkAngelFireWolf69 because you'll come out as LSI and you'll have a fucking mental collapse like all the other Betas in denial because it doesn't validate your stupid system.
    Last edited by Lolita; 03-26-2021 at 12:58 PM.

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    Yes the LSIs are so jealous and emo. Totally an emo type. SEE on the other hand isn't emo and image conscious with their SeFe. Lol.

    PS I don't wanna say the emotions of LSI aren't intense, I'm not trying to put down my dual!

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    This is my experience, can’t speak for anyone else:

    As an EII-Ne, I observe there is greater harmony and subconscious complementarity of actions/life rhythm with LSE-Si than there is with LSE-Te. You put us in the same room and it’s like that’s exactly the environment we were designed to be in. It’s very comfortable and uniquely psychologically satisfying - so ideal that it is, in a sense, boring.

    LSE-Te is a different story. Still undoubtedly my duals, but from the get-go you can perceive a disruption in rhythm. Where I expect greater attention to Si matters, LSE-Te focuses less on that and more on supporting Te aims any way they can. So it’s immediately less comfortable; and by the same token, much more alluring. I have also found that it’s almost impossible for the Si-subtype to offend me, while the Te-sub and I have a much more difficult time getting along. I think there is greater opportunity for growth of partners when the subtypes are irrational-rational, but for pure psychological comfort, rational-rational/irrational-irrational dual pairs are definitely the winner.

    Edit because I forgot about Activity: I’ve only had close relationships with SLI-Si and I consider that possibly my best Intertype other than duality. Lots of fun and implicit understanding. I’ve had a couple SLI-Te friends but the relation is extremely tense at a close psychological distance and touches my weak spots much more than the other subtype, or most types.
    Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 03-27-2021 at 12:53 AM.

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    I'm SLE-TI

    I prefer INFP-Fe & ENFJ-Ni

    ENFJ-Fe use too much Fe. INFP-Ni can be great so long as they can appreciate Se rather exclusively focus on their Ni.

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    I prefer SLI-Si because they are caring and benevolent, SLI-Te is meh. Too rude, too argumentative, too lazy about Si and Se, too many emotional issues that aren't adressed. And they never shut up, even when they don't know what they are talking about

    I like both LSE-Te(best discussions, but no one to care about Si-Fi, so the personal relationship never 'takes off') and LSE-Si(nice, caring and organized, but too much drama and passive-agressive with planning which drives me crazy) moderately.
    Life is soup. I'm a fork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    General rule is that contact is better matched with contact, and inert goes with inert (so creative+creative and leading+leading). Contact and inert subtype have somewhat different needs in duality relationships, which only the same subtype can provide for them. Contact subtypes start from a position of being hyperactive. As name implies, they make a lot of "contacts" with their environment. They need a partner is equally as responsive in a conversation and who will also stabilize them and calm them down. This is what happens when they meet their dual, whose contact functions fall directly on their own inert functions having a stabilizing effect and slowly filling their weakened inert functions which balances them out. Inert subtypes start from a position of being inert and kind of sluggish/in their own head. They need is a partner who will 'speed them up' and incite them to come out and integrate information from their environment. This is what happens when they meet their dual of inert subtype whose hyperfocus on leading and activating functions begins to 'coax out' the creative and suggestive functions in them.
    That's a very good explanation!

    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    When contact and inert subtypes get together, this effect is lost. Mismatching creative/contact and inert/leading subtypes is thus not as complimentary and does not feel as fulfilling in relationships.

    The contact/creative subtype may find their inert partner to be kind of boring and unresponsive, while the inert person might find the contact person to be irritating, talking without much substance to their words. There is also an overload on one set of information elements in these pairs, which creates disbalance in both shared info and on rationality-irrationality dichotomy, creating a sense of discomfort. For example I've heard SLI-Sis say that IEE-Fis are too 'pressuring' and 'exacting' for them, since between them there is a excess of rational element Fi. This eventually makes the SLI-Si want to slip away and distance. The SLI-Si needs an equally 'irrational' partner who appreciates same levels of freedom in a relationship, which they meet in the matching irrational subtype IEE-Ne.
    This very interesting, I didn't read this last time. According to this, I'd be neither a strong Ne-IEE subtype, nor a strong Fi-IEE because I've been told I'm both too pressuring/emotional sometimes and too aloof/not interactive enough. IEE no subtype?
    Life is soup. I'm a fork.

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    I like SLE-Se better over all probably but I still like SLE-Ti. Same with LSI.

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    I was wondering how confident people feel in categorising individuals into the two different subtypes? Do you usually decide on one or the other? How often do you think of someone as having no subtype or being somewhere in the middle? Do most people even out as they get older? Sorry should probably make a new thread for this..
    Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    I was wondering how confident people feel in categorising individuals into the two different subtypes? Do you usually decide on one or the other? How often do you think of someone as having no subtype or being somewhere in the middle? Do most people even out as they get older? Sorry should probably make a new thread for this..
    I don't buy DCNH. Pretty easy thing with creative vs base subtypes, though

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    Yes, I mean the two subtype system. (More thoughts on DCNH later). In his book, Gulenko still refers to the two subtype system (if I’m correct in my understanding) which I found interesting (describes how they look physically and sometimes comments on ITR dynamics relating to subtype).

    I guess you need to have typed quite a lot of people to have a clear idea in your head of which each subtype might look like by noticing some key differences which stand out. Or learn more about how to spot the functions (hard lol).
    Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.

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    I never paid attention to subtype. I would say that my husband is more Si now but he’s also E6 so he’s like a balanced Te and Si
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bethany View Post
    Yes, I mean the two subtype system. (More thoughts on DCNH later). In his book, Gulenko still refers to the two subtype system (if I’m correct in my understanding) which I found interesting (describes how they look physically and sometimes comments on ITR dynamics relating to subtype).

    I guess you need to have typed quite a lot of people to have a clear idea in your head of which each subtype might look like by noticing some key differences which stand out. Or learn more about how to spot the functions (hard lol).
    I can tell type & subtype with no doubts at all. It isn't something I'd brag about. Def useful as it makes interactions smoother. Once I nail someone's type (& subtype), I listen. It's pretty easy from there. I got a degree in comparative psychology. I tend to be patient with this type of sh*t

    Type & subtype don't change BUT a self actualized person can temporarily switch subtype.

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    @Stray Cat yep I can type people well enough, but up until now I’ve used enneagram classifications for dividing people into categories further than core sociotype.

    ‘Type & subtype don't change BUT a self actualized person can temporarily switch subtype.’ This makes sense to me!



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    From sociotype.com:

    There is no single universally accepted subtype notation system; however, one's subtype is generally added following the person's type; e.g., ESE-Fe... This notation however fails to describe the strength of the subtype--it's position along the socionics circle. Therefore, sociotype.com adds a numerical notation that denotes the strength of the subtype, e.g., ESE-2Fe. The range is set between 0 and 3:

    • 0: no discernible subtype
    • 1: weak subtype
    • 2: moderate subtype
    • 3: strong subtype
    Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.

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    I can’t imagine someone not having any discernible subtype..but I can imagine a lot of people with weak or moderate, maybe less with strong.

    Who are these people with no subtype?
    Don't judge each day by the harvest you reap but by the seeds that you plant.

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