I hope you don't still don't believe you're an ESI. Fi from ESI is totally different and also very silent.
Typical. You want to play into your delusions that you're ESI when I've already said you're nothing like ESI from the start and you're not my mirror. People here do not know what a real ESI is like and I told you already, that Fi DOES NOT CARE about the collective opinion of their identity. You're just another Beta who wants to be something else that you've idealized.
ESI is close to correct LSI. Without IR effects to understand own type is not easy.
I notice, ashlesha expresses more emotionality than LSI should. I relate this to other factors, as her nonverbal fits to LSI good. But for her the difference is not evident, as VI needs skills. By common behavior the difference between T/F is not clear in her case and without nonverbal I'd could doubt or to mistake. It's more doubtful than common to explain by her common behavior which we know here on the forum why she has T. While it's doubtful to convince about types even in common situations, as interpretations are significantly speculative and we know a little about those people.
> Fi DOES NOT CARE about the collective opinion of their identity
From types factor point the situation is opposite. What is a type is logical region. So T types have higher criticism about types and lesser possibility to be misleaded by other people.
F types (especially base F) have more emotional relation to opinions, including in T regions where it's not appropriate. Compared to T types, F types easier accept opinions which they personally more like (Fi) or find more decent (Fe) and opinions which have people with such their emotional evaluations. And also people with F types show more than average of unreasonable negativism to logical region opinions which inspire more of negative emotions in them and to opinions which have people which are worse emotionally perceived by them.
So "people with Fi types CARE about the collective opinion about their type" higher than average and the most when want to keep emotionally pleasant relations with those people. Also for them is important to emotionally like those opinions in more degree than for T types, what may be by reasons as to think good IR with someone.
Se type would explain a scepsis about the a better. Situation when people have opinions about your inner psyche contents - Ne, to what Jung type relates too and psychology in general. Se types should lesser like to get "psychoanalysis" and such to have higher scepsis to opinions about their types. Then goes your emotional relations with people who expressed opinions, as if you'd got or wanted friendly relations with them - their opinion about your type would be become more weighty than for any of T types.
"You want to play into your delusions that you're ESI when I've already said you're nothing like ESI from the start and you're not my mirror."
You seem overesteemate the importance of speculative opinions. While allow emotions where it's not appropriate.
Fi types tend to hold more polite. If you "don't care" about what other people think and feel to the degree of being so rude with them - you don't use strong traits of SEE. It's sad. Even in talking with T types, to establish or not ruin good emotions helps to convince, - they are just lesser sensetive to this. Good logical arguments (better than "you're nothing like") and positive emotions is what helps to convince people.
For understanding correct types and having relatively good arguments needs to read books about types and to watch how people near you behave according to their types. The more of typed people and more communications with them - the better you'd understood types to talk about them. Also, I'd recommend to use only normal theory close to basics of Jung, as other theory (which is much used by Gulenko, for example) is doubtful to be correct.
Yeah, in your warped Beta God-complex LSI mind. LSI wants to be ESI because they know they don't have Fi to scale psychological distance and they act out like a whiny lil bitch Fe way when people don't follow their bullshit rules. LIKE YOU.
WRONG. You act like your understanding of socionics is what socionics is. Typical LSI shit. You're NOT Te lead, you IGNORE Te because you favor whatever bullshit you arbitrarily come up with in your mind, rigidify the process and then say you know the rules and others don't. You forgot that I saw you AGREE with DarkAngelFireWolf69's LSI typing for Ashlesha.
WRONG again. Your rigid system is bullshit. You don't even understand Jung or socionics and just want to impose your bullshit rules. You're boxed in with you think and you want to box others into it, just like every other LSI. You support Kassie's delusions because you already recognize she's LSI like you who feed off their delusional Ti and feed off it when they get Fe validation. Reality means nothing to you. Betas only live in their fucked up minds and want to suck everyone into their world. If something doesn't fit into your system, then it's wrong. NO. That brain dead cow is not ESI and you'll never be LSE. You're fucking scared to get typed by DarkAngelFireWolf69 because you'll come out as LSI and you'll have a fucking mental collapse like all the other Betas in denial because it doesn't validate your stupid system.
Yes the LSIs are so jealous and emo. Totally an emo type. SEE on the other hand isn't emo and image conscious with their SeFe. Lol.
PS I don't wanna say the emotions of LSI aren't intense, I'm not trying to put down my dual!
This is my experience, can’t speak for anyone else:
As an EII-Ne, I observe there is greater harmony and subconscious complementarity of actions/life rhythm with LSE-Si than there is with LSE-Te. You put us in the same room and it’s like that’s exactly the environment we were designed to be in. It’s very comfortable and uniquely psychologically satisfying - so ideal that it is, in a sense, boring.
LSE-Te is a different story. Still undoubtedly my duals, but from the get-go you can perceive a disruption in rhythm. Where I expect greater attention to Si matters, LSE-Te focuses less on that and more on supporting Te aims any way they can. So it’s immediately less comfortable; and by the same token, much more alluring. I have also found that it’s almost impossible for the Si-subtype to offend me, while the Te-sub and I have a much more difficult time getting along. I think there is greater opportunity for growth of partners when the subtypes are irrational-rational, but for pure psychological comfort, rational-rational/irrational-irrational dual pairs are definitely the winner.
Edit because I forgot about Activity: I’ve only had close relationships with SLI-Si and I consider that possibly my best Intertype other than duality. Lots of fun and implicit understanding. I’ve had a couple SLI-Te friends but the relation is extremely tense at a close psychological distance and touches my weak spots much more than the other subtype, or most types.
Last edited by PinKDiGiT18; 03-27-2021 at 12:53 AM.
I'm SLE-TI
I prefer INFP-Fe & ENFJ-Ni
ENFJ-Fe use too much Fe. INFP-Ni can be great so long as they can appreciate Se rather exclusively focus on their Ni.
I like SLE-Se better over all probably but I still like SLE-Ti. Same with LSI.
I was wondering how confident people feel in categorising individuals into the two different subtypes? Do you usually decide on one or the other? How often do you think of someone as having no subtype or being somewhere in the middle? Do most people even out as they get older? Sorry should probably make a new thread for this..
Yes, I mean the two subtype system. (More thoughts on DCNH later). In his book, Gulenko still refers to the two subtype system (if I’m correct in my understanding) which I found interesting (describes how they look physically and sometimes comments on ITR dynamics relating to subtype).
I guess you need to have typed quite a lot of people to have a clear idea in your head of which each subtype might look like by noticing some key differences which stand out. Or learn more about how to spot the functions (hard lol).
I never paid attention to subtype. I would say that my husband is more Si now but he’s also E6 so he’s like a balanced Te and Si
-
Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?
I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE
Best description of functions:
http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html
I can tell type & subtype with no doubts at all. It isn't something I'd brag about. Def useful as it makes interactions smoother. Once I nail someone's type (& subtype), I listen. It's pretty easy from there. I got a degree in comparative psychology. I tend to be patient with this type of sh*t
Type & subtype don't change BUT a self actualized person can temporarily switch subtype.
@Stray Cat yep I can type people well enough, but up until now I’ve used enneagram classifications for dividing people into categories further than core sociotype.
‘Type & subtype don't change BUT a self actualized person can temporarily switch subtype.’ This makes sense to me!
From sociotype.com:
There is no single universally accepted subtype notation system; however, one's subtype is generally added following the person's type; e.g., ESE-Fe... This notation however fails to describe the strength of the subtype--it's position along the socionics circle. Therefore, sociotype.com adds a numerical notation that denotes the strength of the subtype, e.g., ESE-2Fe. The range is set between 0 and 3:
- 0: no discernible subtype
- 1: weak subtype
- 2: moderate subtype
- 3: strong subtype
I can’t imagine someone not having any discernible subtype..but I can imagine a lot of people with weak or moderate, maybe less with strong.
Who are these people with no subtype?
I get along better with EIE-Fe males than EIE-Ni males but not by much. I try to avoid EIE females, I can't always tell which subtype is which, but I think EIE-Fe females prefer LSI-Se males. I really don't want to wind up in a long term romantic relationship with a Beta though, I'm really kind of afraid of it. If my appearance were ok, I could have a relationship with an SEE-Se or an ESI-Se or an ILE-Ti, but my appearance is too terrible for them (and for EIE females really, they're pretty concerned with appearance).
But for LSIs, though, I get along better with the Se sub. However, they get pretty irritated with me; I get pretty irritated with LSI-Ti.
I'm sorry, but I'm psychologically disturbed.
So I'm learning a bit more about subtypes atm and I noticed this comment by Rebel. So opposite subtypes are better? Why does this feel like it makes sense to me..
I think it can be quite hard to tell someone's subtype and that the subtypes can often look similar. I was just reading about SLE-se and SLE-ti and actually SLE-ti sounds a bit more like the quiet, mysterious, reserved guys I often go for..
@Bethany, as a Te-subtype myself, my personal experience has been that I like working with an Se-subtype best, but I find the Fi-subtype to be the most comfortable.
Ta. And I think if people identify themselves strongly with a subtype it makes sense they would prefer a matching subtype. However, for people who feel more in the middle…maybe it doesn’t matter too much. I don’t know how strongly I identify with ni but definitely a little
@Bethany, the thing is, an ESI-Se is moving towards an SEE, which is my Activity partner. I love to do things with the ESI-Ses whom I know, but I can't seem to close the distance with them. I've never slept with an SEE, either. Despite their beauty and overt sexiness, SEEs don't appeal to me in that way.
On the other hand, I'm OK with doing things with the ESI-Fi subtype and it's easier to be intimate with them, for some reasons unknown to me.
@chocolatte, just for the record, I'm not that kind. Remember, LIEs and SLEs have the same dimensional Fe and Fi and we therefore have the same levels of blindness to some things.
Instead, I've been trained since birth by my 3-week older IEI cousin to not touch the third rail. I used to say unintentional stuff to her all the time that she found really offensive, but eventually, I figured it out. Mostly.
So, it's training, and not anything intrinsic.
This reasoning undermines the entire motivation for duality.
I've been subduing those Blitzkrieg reactions and substituting them with Fi-kindness for so long that I don't even know anymore if I can muster such a reaction anymore.
Wait, you're saying that emphasis of the introverted functions makes introverts more dominant? That sounds paradoxical, because an ILI-Ni expresses even less Se than an ILI-Te.
Last edited by Armitage; 03-14-2022 at 09:22 AM.
quadratic equation
expressing more Ni and less Se in someone who's Ni leading makes them better at what they're good at, and more inclined to indulge in it and stay away from the other. this makes them more able to handle situation in their "specialty" (even more paradoxical bc intuition is generalizing but u can make a case for sensing to be mroe generalizing and its true bc its in different ways)
this is just me sharing my thought patterns.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
@VewyScawwyNawcissist, that makes them even better at what they're good at, but it doesn't make them dominant in interaction, to the contrary I would say, because the IxI would be stuck even more within their head and thus even be dominated by ILI-Te's and IEI-Fe's.
https://linktr.ee/tehhnicus
Jesus is King stops black magic and closes portals
self diagnosed ASD, ADHD, schizotypal/affective
Your face makes your brain and sociotype – how muscle use shapes personality
I want to care
if I was better I’d help you
if I was better you’d be better
Human Design 2/4 projector life path 1
Yeah he was rude to me and then called me out on being rude even though he was rude to me first. I don't get his logic sometimes. What I do observe is snobbery, and that can be something it takes a while to grow out of. I also observe that he is trying to be polite and decent..but I don't know.. snobbery doesn't generally go hand in hand with decency in my experience. I work with some young people who are more privileged than I and it often takes a while for them to see me as their equal, but they often learn, and it's nice once that barrier is broken down, for both people.
Also, I had deleted that post..wasn't sure if it made sense.
well, that's always a nice thing to hear..haha
I think perhaps Rebel was saying that in an ideal scenario, people of opposite subtypes would be able to learn more from each other in the long run. But I know he didn't think it was a good thing to have a strong subtype, so perhaps two people of opposite subtypes can only be a good thing if they're only slightly off the centre. People with not much subtype can probably switch sides quite easily too. My good IEE friend seems like a fi subtype but I do think I learn more from her than my IEE-ne friend. They are both good friends but I feel like I am challenged more to develop my weak points around the IEE-fi. With the IEE-ne I have more political talks and convos where we muse about the meaning of life. With the IEE-fi we talk about every day stuff and I feel myself being challenged to be a better person and fight harder for myself. In the past I had a very close IEE-ne friend and also a reasonably close IEE-fi friend (I think fi but it's not obvious). The IEE-ne let me down ultimately, I think we took our friendship for granted because it felt so easy. The IEE-fi and I drifted apart.
Last edited by Bethanyclaire; 03-14-2022 at 12:48 PM.
Hm, Idk what Rebel meant, but this post got me thinking.
Since he said strong subtype is not a very good thing, maybe having opposite subtype would sort of force people to naturaly go toward less imbalance between base abd creative, making subtype less strong.
The matching subtypes would be more "comfortable" and not help people achieve balance as much, maybe even accentuate subtypes even more.
But idk.
You're making the common mistake around here that the way a person behaves online is how he/she behaves in real life
You obviously don't know what I take pride in. Contrary to what you might think you haven't figured me and just because a person writes an opinion doesn't mean its good. In fact, if it's uninformed than its a fucking stupid opinion.
What Bethany did was allow Rebel to plant a seed in her head which she then explored as a possibility. My actual issue was that her exploration was based on feels not a genuine desire to determine whether Rebel might be correct or not.
Perhaps what you're trying to explain is that this forum should be about enabling fantasy rather than trying to obtain actual wisdom
That's wrong. I never said you were rude. You called me "dopey" and I asked for proof if it. You were offended by my message so my guess is that "dopey" was just your way of shaming me for calling you on the stupidity in your original message. Not saying you're stupid but the context of the original message was in my opinion
Polite, decent and snobbery are interesting words to describe me when I've never even claimed that I was nice. It's cool. Chocalatte is pretty cool in my book. If you're the nicest person ever, maybe you are.
The effect that subtype has on ITR is negligible. No matter the subtype the dimensions are the same, the functional blocks are the same, the valued functions are the same.
Bound upon me, rush upon me, I will overcome you by enduring your onset: whatever strikes against that which is firm and unconquerable merely injures itself by its own violence. Wherefore, seek some soft and yielding object to pierce with your darts.
-Seneca
I haven't actually. I always thought that Fi ethics and Fe feelings come paired, just like Ni and Ne do within LIEs. So it wouldn't as much be substitution, as switching between what you have already.
I believe upbringing has failed when people believe themselves better than others merely because they inherit more. They didn't work for a thing they have, so they never proved themselves. The kid from a poor family earns more respect from me when she passes the entrance exam and attains 7s in university, while doing a side-job to pay her tuition, than the spoiled brat whose parents paid for a new university library wing to let him in and who gets straight 9s and 10s, thanks to all the extra tutoring his parents pay for him. Sadly we live in a society that cares little for honest, hard work, and is instead only interested in shortcuts to wealth, fame, and status. It's sickening.
If Climate Change will not collapse civilization, then our barbarization will. My Sister works in childcare and she frequently has to care for many, many children alone. The parents of these kids dump them at daycare, so they themselves can work extra hours with the goal to buy their third BMW. In the weekends these parents then want to make up for the guilt they experience for neglecting their children and at those moments want to be "fun parents". They desire to buy off their guilt and don't want crying kids in the sparse free hours they have, so they give their children everything, everything they want. It's a surefire way to raise the most spoiled and nastiest brats imaginable.
Whenever the teachers try to correct the misbehaviours of such brats they can count on those very "fun parents" to suddenly stand at the school's gates to talk with the principal about how the teacher mistreats their "little angel". I know, because I come from a teacher's family and they all report the children's behaviour to be rapidly deteriorating over the past decades. That's what happens if you lack any real life social interaction with peers and your parents neglect you all week long. It's why there are so many school shootings in the States, not because of videogames, but due to social ostracism combined with easily purchasable guns.
The grandma of my cousin once mentioned her shock that whenever the child of my cousin cries, my cousin just hands her the tablet to make her go quiet. That's not raising a child, that's making it a brain dead anti-social degenerate! This whole COVID generation is going to turn out into social dejects this way. Instead of ameliorating the damage done to their social skills during the repeated lockdowns, the "fun parents" only reinforce their lack of social skills by stimulating them more and more with digital devices. Give it a couple decades and society only consists of obese neckbeards plugged into VR, because their petty existence is too deplorable for them to face. If anyone still has to watch the movie Surrogates, I heavily recommend it!
Last edited by Armitage; 03-15-2022 at 02:48 PM.
You wish it did, but it's the contrary and the reason why so many kids are now from separated families. Divorcies have skyrocketed the past decades, because few people nowadays come from healthy, loving families. It's a known fact that the kids who received the most abusive and neglectful upbringing most frequently become teen parents later on, because the rare care of their own parents limited their development of self-inhibition. In addition, the only way in which they know how to parent is based on their own shitty upbringing, so they continue the cycle. There is hope, though, because parenting classes have proved effective in breaking this vicious cycle.
But I don't expect Washington to start providing free parenting classes around the country, because the only free handouts in the States are given to those already rich. Being poor sucks, because it's a death trap that keeps one down. Terry Prachett explains it best:
"The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. He earned thirty-eight dollars a month plus allowances. A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. Those were the kind of boots Vimes always bought, and wore until the soles were so thin that he could tell where he was in Ankh-Morpork on a foggy night by the feel of the cobbles.
But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that'd still be keeping his feet dry in ten years' time, while the poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet. This was the Captain Samuel Vimes 'Boots' theory of socioeconomic unfairness."
The historians and social analysts agree that all evidence points to the States getting into a New Civil War in a few decades, due to this ever increasing separation between the have's and the have not's. It's apartheid v2.0 and there's no way to avert it, because the political system is completely corrupted with its gerrymandering, two party system, and electoral colleges.
Last edited by Armitage; 03-15-2022 at 03:10 PM.