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Thread: Political Videos Thread

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    This honestly seems like a loads of bollocks.

    Setting aside whether The Hill is not just turning into another 'based' right-wing source with titles such as 'Krystal Ball: The woke Left tried to cancel me, that's why they keep losing' or 'Krystal Ball: Previewing the hellish future of a Biden administration' (totally unbiased and moderate, lol).

    The author seems trying to sell us that:
    - (1) the rural America is conservative on social issues, especially on racial issues, and they often have strong views here, such as against racial equality
    - (2) yet they often voted for Obama (Democrats) twicebecause he (a Black man) was supposed to solve those racial issues and make everyone equal and happy???
    - (3) they didn't like the shift towards more leftist social standings of Democrats during Obama and after, so they voted for Trump??
    - (4) but they voted for Trump because he could 'connect with them and their social problems, and just listen to them and not belittle'
    - (5) they didn't like how Obamacare wasn't enough for them so they turned for Trump, who has always stated he wants to retract it completely
    - (6) people who voted for Clinton are anti-Trump still and people who voted for Trump are still pro-Trump (neutrals, people who didn't vote or weakly-convinced apparently don't exist?; people who didn't like Clinton and didn't vote but now they feel they would vote for Biden or just against Trump - nothing about them?)

    This just doesn't add up. The truth is: the rural America was always very conservative, pretty shitty to others (who didn't fit their definition of 'American') and voted for someone who shared their opinions. Trump played to them and fostered them, so they came with their 'social views' openly. Definitely, those people usually didn't vote for Obama - they didn't vote before or voted for Republicans; it's just that Obama's voters didn't transfer readily to Clinton (and neither did they to Trump: they just didn't vote). If some of them indeed voted for Obama, it was because of his pro-social policies, and as Clinton didn't offer them (and neither they feel Obama really realized) they voted for someone 'alternative' who also accidentally fitted their views on social issues (such as race) more (Obama never fitted there.)

    And here is to special 'media doesn't get poor rural Americans'. I saw it happen in other countries far too many times already: 'poor rural Americans' are mostly conservative 'God bless America' demographic, who is incredibly racist and so on. You didn't get 'a voice' in the media before because saying on how you hate on Muslims, Mexicans or black people isn't exactly 'muh poor opinion nobody listens to why'. (Why? Because you are a racist, religious bigot who only cares about his own group, that's why)

    Bad, bad elite media, lol. They don't get anything!

  2. #82
    an octave lower inumbra's Avatar
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    @Duschia - i think the truth is that the nation is deeply divided and the state of that is unsustainable... it's not something that is going to go away either... it's something that has to somehow be resolved and it can't be resolved through making such a huge chunk of the nation be different because they will refuse. i actually do think there is a case for the left elites "not getting it" because alienation doesn't come out of nowhere. the entire nation can't function properly because of this divide... something has to shift. i don't believe that it's this either capitulate to xenophobia/conservative views/etc. or we must be divided. i think there's another way and too few are looking for it. for me, this isn't really about distribution of sympathy. it's about how there is a problem (one that was born well before trump was even elected and one that will continue no matter who wins the current election) and where it's leading is bad.

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    inumbra, well, certainly purposeful pestering of racism, xenophobia and so on (for decades and decades by rich elites) doesn't help. There is ofc a lot of income inequality in the US and 'richer getting richer' thing, so yeah, no wonder (mind it those rich are often quite uhhh themselves as I mentioned). This is where America was brought.

    Anyway I've found this (didn't watch but I think it may be good)


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    an octave lower inumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    inumbra, well, certainly purposeful pestering of racism, xenophobia and so on (for decades and decades by rich elites) doesn't help.
    you seem to assume the rich elites haven't been racist as well... or that what is considered racist hasn't shifted over time (there are things left rich people said on TV in the 90s that would be considered plenty racist by today's standards).

    There is ofc a lot of income inequality in the US and 'richer getting richer' thing, so yeah, no wonder (mind it those rich are often quite uhhh themselves as I mentioned). This is where America was brought.
    this guy starts out being upset about perceiving that dealing with racism and classism are being treated as mutually exclusive. from my point of view they ARE and by both the left and the right. my perspective is the only way to address one is to also address the other. however, this doesn't strongly pertain to the video i posted as i don't think the block of firm trump voters is so much driven by class concerns directly (perhaps in the long term, but it's less relevant). in the video i posted it wasn't being claimed that class concerns were driving it, but cultural ones.

    this doesn't help still that the country is so divided it can't function... that it is growing more divided... i do not know what you suggest, that we all kill each other? because some people want to slaughter the other side already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by inumbra View Post
    you seem to assume the rich elites haven't been racist as well... or that what is considered racist hasn't shifted over time (there are things left rich people said on TV in the 90s that be considered plenty racist by today's standards).
    I literally said that 'mind it those rich are often quite uhhh themselves'. Racist and bigoted.

    this guy starts out being upset about perceiving that dealing with racism and classism are being treated as mutually exclusive. from my point of view they ARE and by both the left and the right. my perspective is the only way to address one is to also address the other. however, this doesn't strongly pertain to the video i posted as i don't think the block of firm trump voters is so much driven by class concerns directly (perhaps in the long term, but it's less relevant). in the video i posted it wasn't being claimed that class concerns were driving it, but cultural ones.
    It was more on 'watching Krystal Ball', not on that Trump-voters thing I think I covered before. And for racism and classism imo for me those are intermingled, but not really the same as Vaush (EIE?) claims (neither I bow to ideology or theory like him, and I'm economically I would see myself as a pragmatist); the more is that I see (after watching first 10 minutes maybe) the value in his perceptive noting of how people like Krystal, Tucker and so on bait liberals and leftists into 'hmmm, we have similar views here and there so maaaybe we could go together there' while kinda forgetting that the 'other side' is socially conservative and bigoted. Basically creating nazbols, Law and Justice, Fidesz, Confederation, Lega Nord and so on: a mix of centre/populist/leftist views on economy (depending on exact mixture) and conservative social views. This mix is a best-seller recently.

    this doesn't help still that the country is so divided it can't function... that it is growing more divided... i do not know what you suggest, that we all kill each other? because some people want to slaughter the other side already.
    The only non-violent solution out there would be something like Bernie proposed. It's not an easy thing to do and I suppose tensions will only rise given nothing is done (and I'm not happy about it). It's bound to boom, collapse, whatever alike. Or at least serious re-arrangements.

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    an octave lower inumbra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    I literally said that 'mind it those rich are often quite uhhh themselves'. Racist and bigoted.
    sorry if i misread you.

    It was more on 'watching Krystal Ball', not on that Trump-voters thing I think I covered before
    yeah i'm getting to that part finally... i think there are several themes with Ball. Ball criticizes empty gestures instead of real action--for instance corporations may pay lip service to things like BLM (good for their image) but they will not go very far in taking any real actions. she often criticizes the upper middle class (and above) white left that easily goes for "symbolic gestures" but not so much for real action. maybe some people take this as some kind of broad push to undermine racial justice on the left that she is for through her "slimy" words, but to me this argument makes sense. empty gestures =/= any real change. another thing about ball is she is generally excited about far left candidates (the progressive half of the democratic party) because, as would appear obvious, they are the only "democrats" who seem to want to move beyond symbolic gestures to actual actions. so if ball is secretly attempting to sully the left to move them further right, it seems a bit odd the way she is going about it.

    another matter is that enjeti and ball do no agree on every matter... the set up of the show is that they don't agree on their political alignment (he is right wing, she is left wing). however, as they do not regularly debate each other or fight, and tend to find common agreement regarding economic populism, they may appear to be quite unified (one should NOT assume any view stated by Enjeti, Ball agrees with). the hook they are both using is being anti-establishment, anti-elite, populist, etc. this can go with the argument the guy in the video is making, IF it is interpreted to mean left/right must fuse this way to the neglect of their other opposing core issues. does it mean that? why MUST it mean that?

    the last matter is, is it possible to criticize some of the left wing propaganda (or even dogma) while still being for racial justice in a way that would actually get results? and if the answer to this question is no, then what is wrong with the framing of the entire matter that is making that so? if you criticize how cars work, does that mean you are against cars and a world in which driving cars is the norm? or does it perhaps mean that you want that world, but you don't think the way the cars are working will actually lead to it in the most ideal way?

    part of the problem with intense polarization is that more and more any nuance fades away... you are either with us or you are against us... you either accept what we say the way we say it or you are against our vision entirely. both sides are doing this more and more... the more extreme it becomes, the more extreme the actions each side feels they must take will become.


    the value in his perceptive noting of how people like Krystal, Tucker and so on bait liberals and leftists into 'hmmm, we have similar views here and there so maaaybe we could go together there' while kinda forgetting that the 'other side' is socially conservative and bigoted.
    but is that actually what is happening? and if any agreement between the sides is impossible, we are back to the divide, and its consequences. ps. i thought it was widely known that tucker carlson has an obvious agenda, and that he's not even populist. all one need to do is consider the broader range of what he has said. he plays up that angle when it serves him; he plays it down when it doesn't (it's not consistent and therefore not his agenda - it's a tool).

    The only non-violent solution out there would be something like Bernie proposed. It's not an easy thing to do and I suppose tensions will only rise given nothing is done (and I'm not happy about it). It's bound to boom, collapse, whatever alike. Or at least serious re-arrangements.
    with that i may agree.

    disclaimer: i do not claim that either ball or enjeti are of impeccable moral character, though i don't require that anyone need to be to consider their argument. if someone is too despicable in my view, this can change, or if their agenda is one i disagree with so i know everything they say will just be more of it.

    ETA: since i have to keep adding long after i began... i can see the argument of why not fuse on economic/racial justice both... if they truly wished to show some way forward, could they not take that step, and why not?
    Last edited by inumbra; 10-27-2020 at 08:34 PM.

  7. #87
    Haikus silke's Avatar
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    outside of some partisan bias a nice review of Obama->Trump years




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    (maybe one day I will reply to you, inu)

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    For those who buried their sons
    Under bone white crosses
    For those who saw their daughters
    Virtues were taken by invading forces
    They promised the century to you
    And all you did was count the dead
    And pray for merciful release
    In the longest and the darkest night
    Where greater men have fallen
    Here we stand guard
    Where greater men have fallen
    Until the end of time
    They made you build your tomb
    With your own very hands
    And ground your kin to dust
    In the dark satanic mills of progress
    It seems the lands of the free
    Are born of the cold and empty grave
    And the myths of liberty
    Bind our wrists like slaves
    Where greater men have fallen
    Here we stand guard
    Where greater men have fallen
    Until the end of time
    Where greater men have fallen
    Is where we stand guard
    And you will always bury your sons
    Under broken barren promises
    And the heart of your motherland
    Will be ripped from her chest
    Where greater men have fallen
    We are ready to die
    Where greater men have fallen
    We are ready to die
    LSI-H - - Melancholy|Sanguine - 6w5-8-4 Sp - LFVE MBTI ISTP
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    When all beauty is tarnished, when all thought is profaned
    They'll cry out for men to invoke the iron rods again
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post

    For those who buried their sons
    Under bone white crosses
    For those who saw their daughters
    Virtues were taken by invading forces
    They promised the century to you
    And all you did was count the dead
    And pray for merciful release
    In the longest and the darkest night
    Where greater men have fallen
    Here we stand guard
    Where greater men have fallen
    Until the end of time
    They made you build your tomb
    With your own very hands
    And ground your kin to dust
    In the dark satanic mills of progress
    It seems the lands of the free
    Are born of the cold and empty grave
    And the myths of liberty
    Bind our wrists like slaves
    Where greater men have fallen
    Here we stand guard
    Where greater men have fallen
    Until the end of time
    Where greater men have fallen
    Is where we stand guard
    And you will always bury your sons
    Under broken barren promises
    And the heart of your motherland
    Will be ripped from her chest
    Where greater men have fallen
    We are ready to die
    Where greater men have fallen
    We are ready to die

    ISTJ Soldier






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