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    @Duschia - i think the truth is that the nation is deeply divided and the state of that is unsustainable... it's not something that is going to go away either... it's something that has to somehow be resolved and it can't be resolved through making such a huge chunk of the nation be different because they will refuse. i actually do think there is a case for the left elites "not getting it" because alienation doesn't come out of nowhere. the entire nation can't function properly because of this divide... something has to shift. i don't believe that it's this either capitulate to xenophobia/conservative views/etc. or we must be divided. i think there's another way and too few are looking for it. for me, this isn't really about distribution of sympathy. it's about how there is a problem (one that was born well before trump was even elected and one that will continue no matter who wins the current election) and where it's leading is bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    inumbra, well, certainly purposeful pestering of racism, xenophobia and so on (for decades and decades by rich elites) doesn't help.
    you seem to assume the rich elites haven't been racist as well... or that what is considered racist hasn't shifted over time (there are things left rich people said on TV in the 90s that would be considered plenty racist by today's standards).

    There is ofc a lot of income inequality in the US and 'richer getting richer' thing, so yeah, no wonder (mind it those rich are often quite uhhh themselves as I mentioned). This is where America was brought.
    this guy starts out being upset about perceiving that dealing with racism and classism are being treated as mutually exclusive. from my point of view they ARE and by both the left and the right. my perspective is the only way to address one is to also address the other. however, this doesn't strongly pertain to the video i posted as i don't think the block of firm trump voters is so much driven by class concerns directly (perhaps in the long term, but it's less relevant). in the video i posted it wasn't being claimed that class concerns were driving it, but cultural ones.

    this doesn't help still that the country is so divided it can't function... that it is growing more divided... i do not know what you suggest, that we all kill each other? because some people want to slaughter the other side already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duschia View Post
    I literally said that 'mind it those rich are often quite uhhh themselves'. Racist and bigoted.
    sorry if i misread you.

    It was more on 'watching Krystal Ball', not on that Trump-voters thing I think I covered before
    yeah i'm getting to that part finally... i think there are several themes with Ball. Ball criticizes empty gestures instead of real action--for instance corporations may pay lip service to things like BLM (good for their image) but they will not go very far in taking any real actions. she often criticizes the upper middle class (and above) white left that easily goes for "symbolic gestures" but not so much for real action. maybe some people take this as some kind of broad push to undermine racial justice on the left that she is for through her "slimy" words, but to me this argument makes sense. empty gestures =/= any real change. another thing about ball is she is generally excited about far left candidates (the progressive half of the democratic party) because, as would appear obvious, they are the only "democrats" who seem to want to move beyond symbolic gestures to actual actions. so if ball is secretly attempting to sully the left to move them further right, it seems a bit odd the way she is going about it.

    another matter is that enjeti and ball do no agree on every matter... the set up of the show is that they don't agree on their political alignment (he is right wing, she is left wing). however, as they do not regularly debate each other or fight, and tend to find common agreement regarding economic populism, they may appear to be quite unified (one should NOT assume any view stated by Enjeti, Ball agrees with). the hook they are both using is being anti-establishment, anti-elite, populist, etc. this can go with the argument the guy in the video is making, IF it is interpreted to mean left/right must fuse this way to the neglect of their other opposing core issues. does it mean that? why MUST it mean that?

    the last matter is, is it possible to criticize some of the left wing propaganda (or even dogma) while still being for racial justice in a way that would actually get results? and if the answer to this question is no, then what is wrong with the framing of the entire matter that is making that so? if you criticize how cars work, does that mean you are against cars and a world in which driving cars is the norm? or does it perhaps mean that you want that world, but you don't think the way the cars are working will actually lead to it in the most ideal way?

    part of the problem with intense polarization is that more and more any nuance fades away... you are either with us or you are against us... you either accept what we say the way we say it or you are against our vision entirely. both sides are doing this more and more... the more extreme it becomes, the more extreme the actions each side feels they must take will become.


    the value in his perceptive noting of how people like Krystal, Tucker and so on bait liberals and leftists into 'hmmm, we have similar views here and there so maaaybe we could go together there' while kinda forgetting that the 'other side' is socially conservative and bigoted.
    but is that actually what is happening? and if any agreement between the sides is impossible, we are back to the divide, and its consequences. ps. i thought it was widely known that tucker carlson has an obvious agenda, and that he's not even populist. all one need to do is consider the broader range of what he has said. he plays up that angle when it serves him; he plays it down when it doesn't (it's not consistent and therefore not his agenda - it's a tool).

    The only non-violent solution out there would be something like Bernie proposed. It's not an easy thing to do and I suppose tensions will only rise given nothing is done (and I'm not happy about it). It's bound to boom, collapse, whatever alike. Or at least serious re-arrangements.
    with that i may agree.

    disclaimer: i do not claim that either ball or enjeti are of impeccable moral character, though i don't require that anyone need to be to consider their argument. if someone is too despicable in my view, this can change, or if their agenda is one i disagree with so i know everything they say will just be more of it.

    ETA: since i have to keep adding long after i began... i can see the argument of why not fuse on economic/racial justice both... if they truly wished to show some way forward, could they not take that step, and why not?
    Last edited by marooned; 10-27-2020 at 07:34 PM.

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    outside of some partisan bias a nice review of Obama->Trump years




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    For those who buried their sons
    Under bone white crosses
    For those who saw their daughters
    Virtues were taken by invading forces
    They promised the century to you
    And all you did was count the dead
    And pray for merciful release
    In the longest and the darkest night
    Where greater men have fallen
    Here we stand guard
    Where greater men have fallen
    Until the end of time
    They made you build your tomb
    With your own very hands
    And ground your kin to dust
    In the dark satanic mills of progress
    It seems the lands of the free
    Are born of the cold and empty grave
    And the myths of liberty
    Bind our wrists like slaves
    Where greater men have fallen
    Here we stand guard
    Where greater men have fallen
    Until the end of time
    Where greater men have fallen
    Is where we stand guard
    And you will always bury your sons
    Under broken barren promises
    And the heart of your motherland
    Will be ripped from her chest
    Where greater men have fallen
    We are ready to die
    Where greater men have fallen
    We are ready to die

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post

    For those who buried their sons
    Under bone white crosses
    For those who saw their daughters
    Virtues were taken by invading forces
    They promised the century to you
    And all you did was count the dead
    And pray for merciful release
    In the longest and the darkest night
    Where greater men have fallen
    Here we stand guard
    Where greater men have fallen
    Until the end of time
    They made you build your tomb
    With your own very hands
    And ground your kin to dust
    In the dark satanic mills of progress
    It seems the lands of the free
    Are born of the cold and empty grave
    And the myths of liberty
    Bind our wrists like slaves
    Where greater men have fallen
    Here we stand guard
    Where greater men have fallen
    Until the end of time
    Where greater men have fallen
    Is where we stand guard
    And you will always bury your sons
    Under broken barren promises
    And the heart of your motherland
    Will be ripped from her chest
    Where greater men have fallen
    We are ready to die
    Where greater men have fallen
    We are ready to die

    ISTJ Soldier





    This is the comment you are looking for



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    https://youtu.be/EfkDIfIVLPU

    (US)

    I get it celebs saying it but it's gotta stop. It's bs and it's not serving the common person. Don't let them take us over no matter your political leaning.

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    One man I'm a big fan of has started posting vids and I cannot deny it is both political and pertinent to this thread:



    I think he's a Beta but he's not wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by End View Post
    One man I'm a big fan of has started posting vids and I cannot deny it is both political and pertinent to this thread:



    I think he's a Beta but he's not wrong.


    He just happens to resemble Leopold. You must be a really nice moral pristine guy, YOU KNOW??? HOW ARE U SO BLIND
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    Quote Originally Posted by VewyScawwyNawcissist View Post
    He just happens to resemble Leopold. You must be a really nice moral pristine guy, YOU KNOW??? HOW ARE U SO BLIND
    Leopold II was a right bastard to be sure but also, as are us all, a product of their time. The major mistake the wokies make is to relentlessly apply current (and sadly anti-Christian) standards to the figures of the past. This also applies to the contexts.

    Sad to say that in my direct experience it is critically few among the general public who can even conceive of (let alone understand) a world without things like cell phones or the internet at speeds as slow as 56k. As in, that was literally as fast as you could get your bandwith to go when this all started. 56k, and that was if you were dropping major bank back in my day. Audio-only songs could take up to an hour or two depending on length and movies/video took literal days! Plus, I must remind those who are "ancient" like myself, that if you were using the internet to do that you literally could not receive phone calls. Imagine/comprehend what that implies!

    Hell, I was shocked to find some older dude in the break room at my job actually agree with me in regard to a statement I made of absolute fact that "Art is work produced to a standard" as he bitched about how much a certain famous movie franchise owned by the house of mouse fucked everything up. I didn't even have to explain that to him, he just got it! You've no idea how many times I've had to actually explain that concept as if to a child to even begin to have meaningful conversations about modern media and why it sucks so hard it threatens to gobble up enough putrid and offensive excrement to manage the impossible and reverse the laws of known physics and actually manage to escape the Event Horizon of the Supermassive Black Hole at the center of our galaxy by being just that damn shitty!

    But I digress. You should watch the other vids he posted. Especially this one:


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    Holy shit. Cars that suddenly shut off in traffic. What could make driving any safer??

    This is a nightmare of a country.
    @VewyScawwyNawcissist

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    https://youtu.be/0ZqP8moItcc

    BBC that Building 7 of the WTC has collapsed...twenty minutes before its actual collapse. The BBC must employ psychics.

    The BBC later claimed it lost this footage. Really? A major news company "loses" its own coverage of 9/11? Excuse my disbelief.

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    A brilliant and true video narrated by an SEI.


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    Quote Originally Posted by FreelancePoliceman View Post

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    If I'm not answering you, I'm either procrastinating a response, or I've judged the conversation as fruitless/already settled prior to the debate for me.

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    This is such a heartbreaking story.

    Also...as soon as she said the boys would visit John Money without the parents present, I already knew they were being sexually abused by him. When she said they visited alone, I was just like, "ERR--Nope, I bet they were abused." Sure enough, a bit later on in the story, she says it.

    Something I personally observed from this story was how there was a dysfunctional core value that permeated the family and deepened the problems in their affairs: silence. The entire family hid the truth from David, and David also hid the truth within him from everyone. The positive and healthy core value of speaking up; speaking out; asserting your own personal boundaries, feelings, thoughts, and desires; was entirely absent, and that is probably one of the other main catalysts behind what would ultimately transpire into David's psychological collapse. John Money's inexorable experimentation on David's gender was undeniably pernicious, but if the family esteemed honesty, transparency, and open communication, it's possible that David might've managed to derive a greater sense of satisfaction from his life. David himself claimed that if he had not been silent, these events would never have eventuated. This story demonstrates the way silence can literally kill.
    Last edited by Fluffy Princess Unicorn; 05-02-2023 at 03:50 AM.


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    "When I mention our names, like Mrs. Merkel, even Vladimir Putin and so on, they all have been Young Global Leaders of the World Economic Forum. But what we are really proud of now is the young generation now, like Prime Minister Trudeau, um President of Argentina and so on, that we penetrate the cabinets. So yesterday I was at a reception for Prime Minister Trudeau and I know that half of his cabinet or even more half of his cabinet are for our -- actually Young Global Leaders of the World Economic Forum."

    "And that's true in Argentina as well --"

    "Yeah, well."

    "That's true in Argentina as well."

    "It's true in Argentina, and uh it's true in France now, and Mr. President, who is uh Young Global Leader..."
    @Midnight Maverick

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    Andrey Fursov ("unofficial" channel has autosubs)

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