Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 41 to 42 of 42

Thread: Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx- Politics, social issues etc

  1. #41
    Neokortex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Post-Colonial Wasteland
    TIM
    Extrovert and Happy.
    Posts
    195
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Regarding my typing:
    No, I'm NeFi in Socionics.
    [Hidden in "spoiler" but elevated by me]In MBTI I'm xNfx. (x means that I'm really close to the border of the two choices and it would switch depending on circumstances, lowercase f means I leaned more F than T, and Capital N means there was no doubt/borderingness)
    [...]
    So take a socionics NeFi with their ability to look at things from differing even conflicting perspectives...
    ...add a very high propensity for Neuroticism, and very low propensity for Conscientiousness...
    I'm not into Socionics but have plunged into the description to accommodate your language. IEE is actually ENTP in MBTI. Duckygo didn't give any "NeFi" Socionics profiles, so just went with the next best thing.

    Oh, and what got me into politics in 2016 was my anger about how my 21yo daughter works a full time job at minimum wage, but still requires a co-signer to get one of the cheapest 1 bedroom apartments in town. I didn't have a problem getting cheapass apartments when I was her age, the price disparity has gotten out of proportion![emphasis by me]
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    My problem with cosigning is that it means that the cost of rent here is way too high for a full time worker to be able to get even the cheapest and crappiest one bedroom apartment.
    But it's not just the monthly cost of the apartment, my daughter could cover that by careful budgeting as I had. The problem is the demands that a renter must have an income that is 3 times the amount of the rent. Which then means that there must be two people working to get a studio or one bedroom apartment, and at least 3 people working full time to get a two bedroom apartment.
    Unfortunately, you have not answered my question: what is your issue with the practice of co-signing? What it sure looks like you have an issue with, though, is the reinforced accountability (i.e. "co-signing") to pay the price of having spared the life of a 5 month old fetus because of wanting the best for her. Do you not wish to be accountable for your choice for parenthood?

    This means, in turn, that there are fewer choices and fewer options for workers and families today than there were when I was in my late teens and early 20s.
    It influences whether or not a worker can go to school to improve their job prospects, or even to be looking for another job. More specifically for me, it means my daughter will be stuck in her dead-end job with nearly zero chances of upward mobility which could provide greater economic security, and significantly greater changes of even further downward mobility which would give way to even greater economical insecurity.
    It also is a major reason why we have more homeless people than ever before. College students and single workers living in their cars. And I worry about what will happen to my daughter when there's no one who can cosign for her. She'll become homeless as well. So I have to find ways of teaching her how to do that and be safe and well. [emphasis by me]
    I kept the child because I was responsible for her. [...] But ultimately I felt I would be the one best to understand what she was dealing with, and finding ways to help her overcome them.
    But how would you be the best one to understand, if your economic freedom (that which influences the mortgage prices, influences against the trend of governmental regulation) is more important for you?

    Regarding the last two Qs:
    What does keeping and raising the child I couldn't abort have to do with libertarianism or my brother?
    Libertarians score higher on Jonathan Haidt's "harm/care scale" and because of less interest in tradition (i.e. are more empathic than rule abiding/enforcing), their "thinking outside the box," or in this case "helping outside the box" is ungrounded in reality. That means a lack of foresight about the extremes of decentralization, the loosening of social fabric owed to individualism, laissez-faire economy (of the 'nuclear family' enterprise).

    Also, I'm in a perpetual back and forth between Transmitting mode (Sx) (the liking and sharing of posts/memes/etc) vs a more Self-Preserving mode (Sp) (taking care of my nest, and preparing for times of insecurity).
    While political memes, in theory, can be the subject of Sx transmission, alone they are not. With such omission, your understanding of Sx-dom appears to be false.
    I appreciate you taking the time to reply to this, especially the part about your worries for your daughter; but when it comes to the "progressiveness" of your political views, I'm sorry to say but you do not sound convincing.
    Except for impaired empathy, an ordinary guy who's looking for down-to-earth, loving, loyal friends and a geeky, warm, voluptuous girlfriend!

  2. #42
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    WA
    TIM
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp
    Posts
    6,351
    Mentioned
    215 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Neokortex View Post
    Unfortunately, you have not answered my question: what is your issue with the practice of co-signing?
    There seems to be a misunderstanding going on between us. I'm either misunderstanding you, or your misunderstanding me, or both.
    I DID answer your question. I may not have given you the answer you wanted, or I may have not been as directed as you wanted, but I did answer your question.

    ---

    What it sure looks like you have an issue with, though, is the reinforced accountability (i.e. "co-signing") to pay the price of having spared the life of a 5 month old fetus because of wanting the best for her. Do you not wish to be accountable for your choice for parenthood?
    The current local economic demands for renters to have income that is 3x the rent, isn't done as an effort to reinforce accountability for having children. That's a silly thing to even suggest.

    edited to add: here's a link from a simple search regarding the 3x thing, it includes comments reasons for it, and reasons it's a poor measurement of suitability.
    For every reason for it, there are alternative ways to help provide the security that the owner wants...but rental management places won't allow those alternatives. (I've even offered to pay a full year's rent at once, which means they could put it in the bank and make interest income from it for themselves. So 3x isn't just about feeling secure that the rent can be paid.)
    https://www.trulia.com/voices/Rental...or_time-425848
    ---

    But how would you be the best one to understand, if your economic freedom (that which influences the mortgage prices, influences against the trend of governmental regulation) is more important for you?
    Here you are either assuming or projecting some kind of values that don't match with anything I've said. Thus reinforcing the feeling that there's a misunderstanding happening within our communication efforts.

     
    Edited to add: since you specifically bolded my "I would be the one best to understand what she was dealing with", I'll clarify what that meant. I had been on psyche meds for over 6 months, so that means my body (and uterus) were being heavily influenced before, during, and 5 months after conception. This is a recipe of potential disaster for the fetus in the womb, and how it will develop outside of the womb. I stopped all psyche meds as soon as I discovered my pregnancy. But those first 5 months are the most sensitive for the fetus, and so there were definitely negative effects for the resulting child, my daughter. I have a decent understanding of my family's history of psyche issues, and my own psyche issues. So, yes, I felt that I would be the best person available to raise her, who'd not only have a good chance of understanding what she was dealing with, but also in finding ways to overcome them.


    ---

    Libertarians score higher on Jonathan Haidt's "harm/care scale" and because of less interest in tradition (i.e. are more empathic than rule abiding/enforcing), their "thinking outside the box," or in this case "helping outside the box" is ungrounded in reality. That means a lack of foresight about the extremes of decentralization, the loosening of social fabric owed to individualism, laissez-faire economy (of the 'nuclear family' enterprise).
    Ok, so I'm guessing that you're not from the USA, while I am. *(see "edited to add" at end of this section")* And my understanding is that we're using the same terms to refer to different things.
    So I'll rephrase what I meant when I say "progressive", to mean "social democratic"...and before you get confused by what I mean by that, I'll add that I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter.

    In the USA, Liberals are not the same thing as Libertarians.
    Libertarians score very high on the Liberty/Oppression scale, and about average on the Fairness(Proportionality)/Cheating scale.
    Liberals score high on the Care/Harm scale; quite sensitive on the Liberty/Oppression scale; and about average on the Fairness(Proportionality)/Cheating scale.
    And yes, this makes them somewhat blind to values that the other 1/3+ of the country includes in their decision making: Authority, Loyalty, and Sanctity.
    (though many liberals have a variation of those three, as well; For example, I favor Sanctity of, and Loyalty to, the Earth and Sustainable Stewardship of its Resource. I'd rather American Resources be used to benefit ALL Americans on its soils, rather than Proportioning it out to whoever has the most money to buy off our government representatives or Proportioning it out to whoever's best at exploiting workers.)

    * edited to add: after reviewing the thread I saw that you had already told me you weren't from the USA. I apologize for not having remembered that bit. If I had remembered I would have realized we were already headed to misunderstandings regarding those political labels, and maybe I could have clarified the above earlier.
    ---

    While political memes, in theory, can be the subject of Sx transmission, alone they are not. With such omission, your understanding of Sx-dom appears to be false.
    I appreciate you taking the time to reply to this, especially the part about your worries for your daughter; but when it comes to the "progressiveness" of your political views, I'm sorry to say but you do not sound convincing.
    This is a thread specifically about Social-last and politics. A question was asked:
    Just getting curious here- Social last types, what are your political or social justice opinions, and how involved are you in politics, if at all?

    Are you completely apolitical and disinterested, or are you more involved than the stereotypes would have us believe?
    ...and I answered for myself.
    You asked me questions, I answered.
    I feel no need to convince you of anything.
    Last edited by anndelise; 07-16-2019 at 07:31 PM.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •