Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx- Politics, social issues etc

[anndelise]

Just getting curious here- Social last types, what are your political or social justice opinions, and how involved are you in politics, if at all?

Are you completely apolitical and disinterested, or are you more involved than the stereotypes would have us believe?

Once in a while I might read something or respond to something, but I've other things I'd rather be reading about, talking about, or doing.

While "Progressive" is the closest label (that I know of) that might describe my stances, I don't actually DO anything, belong to any Progressive groups, keep up on what's going on, etc. I'm 45yo and the 2016 election was the only time I got involved enough to go vote and maybe talk about Bernie Sanders a few times. On facebook I share/like some memes, and sometimes I share/like more than I wish I had, lol. Sometimes I share some just to piss off my libertarian e837 SLE older brother.

My husband keeps up on what's going on (though not obsessively), and he'll make comments about 'recent events' and may eventually tell me a summary of what he's referring to. And I used to watch some of those satire shows that would touch on politics.

My recent argument in another thread was political in topic, but 75% of the time I ignore the political topics on this forum. The only reason I went on that thread in the first place was because it was in 'socionics general' and was titled to be about Delta/Beta. (It did, however, help me figure out my stance on affirmative action policies. I'm now no longer ambivalent about them, but am glad they were implemented 50 years ago.) And I suppose this thread.

When it comes to social issues, I've got a few pet peeves. Primarily about separation of Church and State, "a vote for x is a vote for y" bullshit, getting money out of politics, and things related to disabilities, social security, and medical. Oh, and what got me into politics in 2016 was my anger about how my 21yo daughter works a full time job at minimum wage, but still requires a co-signer to get one of the cheapest 1 bedroom apartments in town. I didn't have a problem getting cheapass apartments when I was her age, the price disparity has gotten out of proportion! That and the church/state thing are my biggest peeves.

That about covers it.

[Neokortex]

When it comes to social issues, I've got a few pet peeves. Primarily about separation of Church and State, "a vote for x is a vote for y" bullshit, getting money out of politics, and things related to disabilities, social security, and medical. [...] That and the church/state thing are my biggest peeves.

Why is the separation of Church and State a problem? I'm not from the U.S. but I've heard they are still pretty religious out there. Wouldn't that be the progressive move, according to your "progressive" politics to have them separated?

[anndelise]

Why is the separation of Church and State a problem? I'm not from the U.S. but I've heard they are still pretty religious out there. Wouldn't that be the progressive move, according to your "progressive" politics to have them separated?

I WANT separation of Church and State, and get annoyed when people want to push their own religion onto others, particularly through political means.

[Beautiful sky]

I WANT separation of Church and State, and get annoyed when people want to push their own religion onto others, particularly through political means.

hi Ann

[anndelise]

hi Ann

Hi Maritsa.

(I'm not really back. I had just checked in to see if there were any private messages and/or notifications to catch up on. I hope all is well for ya'll.)

[Neokortex]

I've got a few pet peeves. Primarily about separation of Church and State, "a vote for x is a vote for y" bullshit, getting money out of politics, and things related to disabilities, social security, and medical. Oh, and what got me into politics in 2016 was my anger about how my 21yo daughter works a full time job at minimum wage, but still requires a co-signer to get one of the cheapest 1 bedroom apartments in town. I didn't have a problem getting cheapass apartments when I was her age, the price disparity has gotten out of proportion! That and the church/state thing are my biggest peeves.

I WANT separation of Church and State, and get annoyed when people want to push their own religion onto others, particularly through political means.

pet peeve = upsetting personal issue with sthing
I thought you meant you take issue with the separation of the two. Anyways, reading the rest made me think why on earth was America labeled a "1st world country?" Over here we also had a rise in the flat rental prices, something about people not trusting the banks with their money, they'd rather convert it into mortgage. Not sure what "co-signers" are, though.

Problem with Church is, humans procreate, reproduce way faster than our ability to spread, knowledge, culture, enlightenment, civility. There are and perhaps always will, more than enough uneducated masses willing to buy in whatever post-truth cult of the time. And Typology is not an exception. Most people here are the consumers of this cyberpunk religion. Because the thing with religion is... that it's always been the dominant paradigm of a certain place and a time. Religion has never been called as such, people were practicing it without being aware of other, possibly wider paradigms. And all religions are inherently typologies, indexing the exterior phenomena according to their political agenda. And all their followers are only the exploiters of the taxonomies (role players), the labels of their religion (masquerade), each twisting their chosen one (e.g. "EII") to mask their own hypocrisy. Each culture, system of significations is a religion.

Lately, I've found two Sx women on youtube, one is an infamous ex-actress, the other a former typology enthusiast. Both have children as has the first Sx/Sp woman I met IRL. If you associate w/ the label "progressive," then why do you have children?

[anndelise]

Not sure what "co-signers" are, though.

A co-signer is someone who has sufficient income/resources to qualify to pay for not only their own place, but also the new place to be rented. This means that if the primary renter doesn't have enough income to make the rent, then the owner can go after the co-signer to pay it. An example, my daughter doesn't make enough money to qualify for the cheapest rental here, even though she works full time at minimum wage. So my husband has had to co-sign her rental agreement; which means that if my daughter can't make the payments, or damages the property, the owner can force my husband to cover the costs.

If you associate w/ the label "progressive," then why do you have children?

1) Pregnancy can happen whether you want it to or not.
2) I didn't know I was pregnant until 5 months along, so it was too late to abort.
3) I've only ever had the one child.
4) And finally, the decision to have or not have children is far more complex than one's political associations.

[Neokortex]

While "Progressive" is the closest label (that I know of) that might describe my stances, I don't actually DO anything, belong to any Progressive groups, keep up on what's going on, etc. [...]

A co-signer is someone who has sufficient income/resources to qualify to pay for not only their own place, but also the new place to be rented. This means that if the primary renter doesn't have enough income to make the rent, then the owner can go after the co-signer to pay it. An example, my daughter doesn't make enough money to qualify for the cheapest rental here, even though she works full time at minimum wage. So my husband has had to co-sign her rental agreement; which means that if my daughter can't make the payments, or damages the property, the owner can force my husband to cover the costs.

Lemme backtrack. So I don't understand: what was your problem with "co-signing" in 2016? The extra "red tape" work or that the minimum wage wasn't enough for a proper studio flat?

May I tease you a bit further? The following is the direct continuation of the first quote:

[...] On facebook I share/like some memes, and sometimes I share/like more than I wish I had, lol.[...]

As an "Sx/Sp" and a "progressive".... how "socially blind" and how progressive is to share more memes than you wished for on social media?

1) Pregnancy can happen whether you want it to or not.
2) I didn't know I was pregnant until 5 months along, so it was too late to abort.
3) I've only ever had the one child.
4) And finally, the decision to have or not have children is far more complex than one's political associations.

I'm only catching up now... so you're an ENFP in the MBTI, that means you're socially blind but you're an extrovert? ENFPs usually don't have Enneagram 6, except 7w6. I guess not having noticed your pregnancy sooner could be put down to inferior Si? How is keeping a child that could have been euthanized even at 5 months old less libertarian than your "libertarian e837 SLE older brother" that you piss off with memes? Yes, it's a complex decision... but is it complex in terms of rationality?

[anndelise]

Lemme backtrack. So I don't understand: what was your problem with "co-signing" in 2016? The extra "red tape" work or that the minimum wage wasn't enough for a proper studio flat?

My problem with cosigning is that it means that the cost of rent here is way too high for a full time worker to be able to get even the cheapest and crappiest one bedroom apartment.
But it's not just the monthly cost of the apartment, my daughter could cover that by careful budgeting as I had. The problem is the demands that a renter must have an income that is 3 times the amount of the rent. Which then means that there must be two people working to get a studio or one bedroom apartment, and at least 3 people working full time to get a two bedroom apartment.

This means, in turn, that there are fewer choices and fewer options for workers and families today than there were when I was in my late teens and early 20s.
It influences whether or not a worker can go to school to improve their job prospects, or even to be looking for another job. More specifically for me, it means my daughter will be stuck in her dead-end job with nearly zero chances of upward mobility which could provide greater economic security, and significantly greater changes of even further downward mobility which would give way to even greater economical insecurity.
It also is a major reason why we have more homeless people than ever before. College students and single workers living in their cars.

And I worry about what will happen to my daughter when there's no one who can cosign for her. She'll become homeless as well. So I have to find ways of teaching her how to do that and be safe and well.
(and this doesn't even cover the climate change effects on economic security)

May I tease you a bit further? The following is the direct continuation of the first quote:

As an "Sx/Sp" and a "progressive".... how "socially blind" and how progressive is to share more memes than you wished for on social media?

I don't understand this question.
There are better ways of spending my time than sitting at a desk on the internet watching cute animal and political videos.
Also, I'm in a perpetual back and forth between Transmitting mode (Sx) (the liking and sharing of posts/memes/etc) vs a more Self-Preserving mode (Sp) (taking care of my nest, and preparing for times of insecurity).
None of this itself has to do with "progressive" label. Only the types of political shares.

I'm only catching up now... so you're an ENFP in the MBTI, that means you're socially blind but you're an extrovert? ENFPs usually don't have Enneagram 6, except 7w6. I guess not having noticed your pregnancy sooner could be put down to inferior Si? How is keeping a child that could have been euthanized even at 5 months old less libertarian than your "libertarian e837 SLE older brother" that you piss off with memes? Yes, it's a complex decision... but is it complex in terms of rationality?

Regarding my typing:
No, I'm NeFi in Socionics.

 

In MBTI I'm xNfx. (x means that I'm really close to the border of the two choices and it would switch depending on circumstances, lowercase f means I leaned more F than T, and Capital N means there was no doubt/borderingness)

Regarding NeFi and e6:
Enneagram 6 is a head fixation type, dealing with the aversive emotion of fear.
So take a socionics NeFi with their ability to look at things from differing even conflicting perspectives...
...add a very high propensity for Neuroticism, and very low propensity for Conscientiousness...
...add a bunch of life and security threatening trauma into their developing years...
...and BOOM!

I also have a long (enneagram related) history on this forum of fluctuating between my normal anxious and insecure mode: 6w7 sx/sp (or sp/sx)...to doing things that'll help me feel more secure and less anxious 6w7 sp/sx...which has the side-benefit of bringing up my confidence levels which leads me to go out and explore more ...7w6 sx/sp ... which only lasts a few days (if even that) before I'm back to seeing I had probably made yet another poor decision, imagining all the ways that something can go wrong, and returning to anxious mode.

Regarding 5 months before knowing prego:
Not having noticed my pregnancy is simple, but multi-influenced:
a) I have polycystic ovary syndrome aka PCOS. This means that I can go months (my record was 9 months without being pregnant) without having a period..and without having been pregnant. It also means that pregnancy is harder to accomplish because there's too thick of a wall around the uterus (due to lack of monthly shedding), as well as scar tissue, that blocks a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterus.
b) The time when I was throwing up? My roommate was cooking our food and she kept not cooking things properly. I assumed the throwing up had to do with that. "confirmed" when I took over the cooking for myself again and stopped throwing up.
c) I was on psyche meds that have side effects of weight gain. So even though I was in the best shape of my life, physically active, doing workouts, going to college to get a Recreation/Fitness Degree, etc...I kept gaining weight. I assumed it was the meds until I reached a point where I was panicked that maybe it was a tumor instead. (I wasn't dating or such, so there wasn't any recent sexual activity.)
d) By the time I bought the pregnancy tests, and went to see a Dr to verify, I was already 5 months along.

Regarding the last two Qs:
What does keeping and raising the child I couldn't abort have to do with libertarianism or my brother?

I kept the child because I was responsible for her. I considered seeing if her father wanted her, or his parents, but I didn't think they could do a good job of raising her. And when her special needs would over-power my own, I'd reconsider sending her to them. But ultimately I felt I would be the one best to understand what she was dealing with, and finding ways to help her overcome them. There was also a wanting to stop the cycle of abuse that ran rampant in our family. And the only way I felt I could ensure that was to be the one who raised her instead of them.