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Thread: Type descriptions by Victor L .Talanov

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    Damn, St. Petersburg is killin it.

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    how do you guys get past half the pages being too large for google translate to handle?

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    he've messed with validity checking of own tests. while those descriptions are based on his testing and ways of testing
    in short: that's much baseless
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Very nice find About the items/topics of the results, some are fairly bizarre though. Take it with a grain of salt.
    Last edited by Chae; 12-10-2017 at 10:56 AM.

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    What a great reference! I've been looking for actual statistical research on type characteristics for years now.

    Many thanks, @esq.
    @Chae, the LIE description seems spot-on.

    Esq, a link on one of your referenced pages led me to this page: http://sociotoday.narod.ru/sex.html, where something that I have long suspected was stated. The research shows that ESI's seem to be the most loyal type in marriage, which explains why there are none available when I got divorced. They are all sticking with the program which, when you consider that about 10% of the population is ESI and about 2% of the population is LIE, can be a pretty grim program.

    I was in my hairdresser's salon shortly after I was divorced, and a woman came in who seemed to fit the ESI profile. We got to talking, I told her I was divorced, she told me she was in a bad marriage. (It's a hair salon, right? Women talk.) I said, What? She said, her husband looks at her like she's an idiot every time she opens her mouth to say something. I said that sounds bad. She agreed, but she said it was her second marriage and she was staying in it for the sake of her kids. (I got the impression that she felt that she had tried really hard both times to marry the right guy, and both times her plans went very wrong, and that's just the way it would be the next time, so why hope for anything different?)
    That is Fi loyalty, but low Ni.

    EII has the second highest loyalty to marriage.

    I guess this is a required characteristic if your dual is a Te-dom, low-feeling asshole.

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    He types Donald Trump SLE. It's settled now. Everybody, go home

    Thanks @esq. So many new resources! That's gold to me.

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    Earlier credit goes to @squark for sharing Talanov in their post in the IEE-IEI differences thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    He types Donald Trump SLE. It's settled now. Everybody, go home

    Thanks @esq. So many new resources! That's gold to me.
    looks like I'm right again

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    @Chae, regarding grain of salt.

    Half of Talanov's associations for my type, I have mixed feelings about. But the other half are okay and even insightful. It is possible that I've had an atypical upbringing for my type.

    Upbringing and personal development can probably break a type away from the typical characterizations shown here. Like a type can probably mold themselves away from their weaknesses if for some reason they underwent a lot of skill training that bolstered those weaknesses.

    So it's necessary to understand that these associations aren't meant to be definitive for every type. They're only claiming that representatives of a type were more likely to have this or that property than an average person was.

    But yeah, some are kind of bizarre. Like an IEE is more likely to have their favorite color as bright yellow? More likely to have their [ring?] finger shorter than their index finger? Their "growth is above average"? They have little melanin and their pigmentation is weak? Are these all accurate?

    But so far, most of them seem fairly feasible and anyway interesting to consider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esq View Post
    @Chae, regarding grain of salt.

    Half of Talanov's associations for my type don't resonate with me. But the other half are okay and even insightful. It is possible that I've had an atypical upbringing for my type.

    Upbringing and personal development can probably break a type away from the typical characterizations shown here. Like a type can probably mold themselves away from their weaknesses if for some reason they underwent a lot of skill training that bolstered those weaknesses.

    So it's necessary to understand that these associations aren't meant to be definitive for every type. They're only claiming that representatives of a type were more likely to have this or that property than an average person was.

    But yeah, some are kind of bizarre. Like an IEE is more likely to have their favorite color as bright yellow? More likely to have their "unnamed" (ring?) finger shorter than their index finger? Their growth is "above average"? In their skin and hair, they have little melanin and their pigmentation is weak? Are these all accurate?
    Talanov was clearly taking a shotgun approach to correlations, but I think that's good, because some randomness can lead to surprising results. We have plastic-coated electrical wire because a cleaning lady accidentally spilled cleaning solution into the wire drawing vat, which previously had been steadily failing to get the plastic to join correctly with the wire.

    Note that Talanov took measures to try to correctly type people, and his sample sizes are in the thousands. This isn't on a Google "if a user visits this shoe site twice, they are a target for pecan ice cream ads" level, but it's the best I've seen so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by esq View Post
    @Chae, regarding grain of salt.

    Half of Talanov's associations for my type, I have mixed feelings about. But the other half are okay and even insightful. It is possible that I've had an atypical upbringing for my type.

    Upbringing and personal development can probably break a type away from the typical characterizations shown here. Like a type can probably mold themselves away from their weaknesses if for some reason they underwent a lot of skill training that bolstered those weaknesses.

    So it's necessary to understand that these associations aren't meant to be definitive for every type. They're only claiming that representatives of a type were more likely to have this or that property than an average person was.

    But yeah, some are kind of bizarre. Like an IEE is more likely to have their favorite color as bright yellow? More likely to have their [ring?] finger shorter than their index finger? Their "growth is above average"? They have little melanin and their pigmentation is weak? Are these all accurate?

    But so far, most of them seem fairly feasible and anyway interesting to consider.
    From what I looked at (I might be wrong) - we don't have an idea of the age group of the sample, i'd bet you different ages would have different skillsets. Even for example, type descriptions speak about SLI being physically active when younger, but as they age, only turn to weights or physical activity as and when they feel like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarper View Post
    From what I looked at (I might be wrong) - we don't have an idea of the age group of the sample, i'd bet you different ages would have different skillsets. Even for example, type descriptions speak about SLI being physically active when younger, but as they age, only turn to weights or physical activity as and when they feel like it.
    That has been exactly what happened to both my SLI father and my SLI ex. My SLI son is still in the physically active stage.

    But my father can barely get out of a chair by himself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    That has been exactly what happened to both my SLI father and my SLI ex. My SLI son is still in the physically active stage.

    But my father can barely get out of a chair by himself.
    I like descriptions. We can all play around with theories, it's fun - and useful, but at the same time, descriptions are - it's easy in Ti leaning socionics to forget the usefulness of them.

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    I found this website years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wacey View Post
    I found this website years ago.
    Good job. Here's a cookie


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Teapot View Post
    Good job. Here's a cookie

    Thank-you. Nom nom.

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    I found a book for SLEs. It was very sophisticated and advanced, with cutting-edge ideas for this complicated and challenging world we find ourselves co-habitating in.

    0bee6aa7352c0de2754766bf16e75162.jpg

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    i came across this talanov website a few days ago. haven't quite figured out what the numbers stand for but the specificity of the suggestions is entertaining. they must have had a good time putting together the material
    honest labor needs no master

    Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.

    Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης

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    His empirical analysis of each sociotype based on st. deviations from the norm in answering specific questions is really interesting.
    One could try to build a typing test based on the most reliable Reinin dichotomies + the most "deviating" answers from Talanov's table and likely obtain a very accurate typing with a fairly short test.

    Regarding his LIE correlations, uhm, I have extremely good eyesight so perhaps some of those are a bit off for me. The ones with the highest correlations are good.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    @FDG, which columns are the ones you find accurate?
    honest labor needs no master

    Nothing good is a miracle, nothing lovely is a dream.

    Επί πάντων μέμνησο τα έσχατά σου, και ου μη αμαρτήσης

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalinoche View Post
    @FDG, which columns are the ones you find accurate?
    Accurate 99% in the first 20:

    2

    Strategic planning "ascending progressive" in the long term of his life and career (on a short list of 9 numbers).

    3

    Hearing is a poor ability to distinguish a desired item in the noise (Running joke with my girlfriend)

    4

    Even distracted, you will not lose in speaking with the presentation of thought. (A really useful skill, saved my ass)


    7
    Weak guidance on color vision; low sensitivity color vision. (This is something even acquaintances notice...)

    10

    All similar objects appear visually as a person, the person of men careless, inattentive to visual individual differences and the color of objects, reminiscent hurt people's faces.

    18

    He does not like the ethical-sensory trade (florist, florist, designer, makeup artist, esthetician, pastry chef, fashion designer, stylist, administrative assistant, service telephone operator).


    Do not relate:

    9

    His vision is distracted and inattentive, in this regard we can not say that it is - a detailed, careful, sensitive, attentive, with an excellent distinctive visual detail and change, even in the small.

    (I can have a good attention to detail when focussed)

    19

    Weak development of visual function of the subject and its poor individual capacity as an information channel.

    (Since I was a kid I had a great eyesight and some people were shocked / impressed but I think that´s genetic? I can also remember scenery in great detail)

    5

    No appetite for food.

    (I can skip meals easily but I like good food)
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    EIE

    - the most frequent among all types of socion is the manifestation of homosexual tendencies

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    Chapter 5. The solution of the inverse problem is the restoration of projections of a certain psychological property into 16 psychotypes through known projections of this property into 8 socionic functions

    First, let us remember that socionic functions do not reflect in themselves all the socionic features, but only their part - the truth, the most essential. Therefore, it is impossible in principle to restore all the complete information about the psychotype by functions, as you like combining them among themselves. To understand what proportion of the information we can recover, consider for the purpose of illustrating Table. 5.1.

    Table. 5.1. Calculation of the percentage contribution to the overall variance of psychological properties associated with socionic traits. In cells, percentages of the total variance of properties are indicated, associated with this socionic trait or, in the last lines, groups of socionic traits. The calculation was carried out separately for 3 different cases.



    From Table. 5.1. it can be seen that, with the immanent properties of eight socionic functions, 93% to 97% of the total variance of all possible psychological properties is associated, by any calculation. This part of the properties is determined only by the weight contribution of certain socionic functions to the psychotype and is in no way connected either with their position within the psychotype, or even more with their neighborhood within the psychotype with other socionic functions. With the peculiarities of the position of functions inside the psychotype (for example, it is program or creative, rather than actually with the size of the function), no more than 3% of the total variance is associated, and with the proximity of functions (with what functions are immediate neighbors within the TIM) 4.5% of the total dispersion of psychological properties, with the lion's share of these percentages being a sign of "aristocracy-democrats". In the order of the "lyrical digression", let us draw the reader's attention to how little dispersion in the array of the most diverse psychological properties turn out to be associated with the so-called "weak" socionic traits - they are called weak for nothing. From here you can draw a conclusion about how unreliable the type diagnosis based on the "weak" socionic traits (kvestimnost-declarations, positivism-negativism, etc.)

    Thus, the overwhelming majority of the dispersion of psychological properties (93% or even higher) is associated with the individual weight content of all eight functions of the psyche in the psychotype, and more with nothing else. Only the "strength" or "power" of each function is important, or, if you like, its "dimension" - that is, something that is characterized by the numerical value of its magnitude, and does not matter at all on which position the function functions within the psychotype, with which other functions it borders and interacts. All these 93% of the variance of properties are easily modeled, obviously, by a linear additive superposition of 8 functions with weight coefficients. It is these 93% of information from that general psychological information that is contained in the properties of the original psychotype that are reflected in the 8 psychological functions, and then on these functions, knowing their individual weight contribution to each psychotype, all information about the psycho-type-related properties of the psychotype can be further restored. It follows that the maximum attainable coefficient of linear correlation between the properties of the original psychotype and the properties of the psychotype restored by the 8 functions (due to the representation of each psychotype in the form of a linear superposition of 8 functions with some weighting coefficients in front of each of them) equals the square root of 0, 9246 = 0.96 (since, according to theorems of mathematical statistics, the coefficient of linear correlation between two properties equals the square root of the fraction, which is the total variance at x properties throughout their complete dispersion). And if we consider the contribution of signs Nos. 1-7 to the total variance of properties equal to 97.16% (the case of calculating the weight contribution of features on the array of primary diagnostic correlations with type standards in a sub sample of 880 subjects), then the correlation of the "restored" the initial properties will reach a square root of 0.9716 = 0.986. Looking ahead, let's say right away that everything is exactly the way it is when we test the correlations between the properties of the "original" and the psychotypes restored by functions.
    .

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    is he saying that almost all of what we understand as personality is a property of strong v weak functions? in other words, if you were to say this person is 4d Ne Fe, it would capture the bulk of their personality, leaving the rest to implication it would say almost everything, with valued/unvalued being less of a factor and the varying block configurations being somewhat inconsequential by comparison? (at least as it pertains to observable traits) that's how I read that but I'm not entirely sure

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    @Bertrand I think it basically says that 93 to 97% of the variance of sociotype behaviour can be explained by the four primary dichotomies (E\I, N\S, T\F, P\J) or the eight IMs, and thus all other dichotomies are significantly less efficient and reliable for typing purposes. As a lesser point, the P\J dichotomy is significantly less helpful than the other three primary dichotomies.

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    ah yeah I think we're saying the same thing then, for example if I say person x is 4d Fe Ne, it implies they're: extroverted, intuitive, feeling, and it leaves in the air P/J. I totally agree that just from my spitballing that does in fact seem to be the essence of personality. the next biggest issue is one of quasi identity (J/P), which while not trivial, quasis certainly have enough in common trait wise that it can be difficult to tell them apart, i.e.: that a bulk of the surface personality is in common thus the differentiation is less than obvious (as would be the case if they had a prevailing degree of difference, rather than similarity)

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    My feelings towards these studies are similar to what I feel about Sol's theories; I question the usefulness, and also have doubts in the reliability of the typings used to draw the correlations. Anybody know what type is Talanov?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    My feelings towards these studies are similar to what I feel about Sol's theories; I question the usefulness, and also have doubts in the reliability of the typings used to draw the correlations. Anybody know what type is Talanov?
    Tall...tallmo...talanov
    He must be an sei

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    Quote Originally Posted by muhtempus View Post
    Tall...tallmo...talanov
    He must be an sei
    Very constructive comment

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    My feelings towards these studies are similar to what I feel about Sol's theories; I question the usefulness, and also have doubts in the reliability of the typings used to draw the correlations. Anybody know what type is Talanov?
    Personally, I think they're awesome, and you're a party pooper. How can you be a LIE and always be whining about everything? Get an hold on yourself and start doing something.

    Those are the first real empirical studies about socionics, disregarding their usefulness is stupid because we don't have any alternative at the moment.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    My feelings towards these studies are similar to what I feel about Sol's theories; I question the usefulness, and also have doubts in the reliability of the typings used to draw the correlations. Anybody know what type is Talanov?
    I agree.

    We could have a thousand answers, but, there is still the same question, are they typed right?

    It makes me wonder if socionics is better being left as a predominantly Ti Ne theory.

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    Well, datas guys. I see the utility, the only thing I dislike a little bit (but that can't be changed and that isn't actually a limitation) is that they are focused on Russian people, so Russian traditions and Russian habits. I would apply them in a flexible way on other large populations. On the other hand this can be a good point to start to study intratype differences and how background culture and habits can influence type expression in society. Overall this is good.

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    Victor... Vic... Viktor ... metal is perfection ... mETal .... laTEm .... .. . . . TE
    holy shit he's an Te dominant, probably an LIE

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    Quote Originally Posted by muhtempus View Post
    Victor... Vic... Viktor ... metal is perfection ... mETal .... laTEm .... .. . . . TE
    holy shit he's an Te dominant, probably an LIE
    viktor.png

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