What's My Type Round 2

[rat200Turbo]

characterizing the ITR is no different than characterizing the "vibes" someone gives off; if all we go off of is literal text it completely circumvents what personality measures which is what people mean when they use words, it begs the question even harder than the idea of "vibes" as to what type they are because it just consigns words to their literal meaning and then plugs them into a rote system we likewise assume to mean exactly what it says. none of that is particularly justified across most circumstances, and is just as prejudicial, so I feel like your point while not without any merit, fails to realize it implicates a generalized difficulty to typing itself and not simply a problem only my approach here is susceptible to

it also means we should just take a test and accept whatever the result is by that logic, which is fine, but not really what this thread is about, so you don't really disdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdi sdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisd isdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdis disdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdi sdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisagree with me but with this entire effort in general, so I find it conspicuous your exception on this particular point. back to my wild imagination, I do think this indicates a degree of simpatico with cuvininny which would implicate like values to some extent. intredasting

all that to say if a person says "I feel comfortable around this person" it means something, maybe not as much as it means when you say it about your wife of 20 years, but its still a data point that is more than nothing, so while it doesn't conclusively determine real ITR its just another way to say "this person makes me feel reminiscent of conflict" or whatever and it can be considered accordingly. far from useless and inasmuch as its a third party known to all it allows for a degree of triangulation. for example if ITRs are meaningless in all but the closest relations then society should not organize itself by quadra at all, but it does, because people act out ITRs regardless of how they aware they are of them or how accurately they "type" other people. in fact ITRs give rise to type far more than type gives rise to ITR, at least from my point of view. that's why all I need is a name of "was uncertain about" people to be able to get quite a bit of insight, we need not speculate as to their actual type, just their own valued aspects. to say "I get along with ILI" while own type is in question is so abstract as to be absurd because how do you know this person is ILI if your entire base type is in question. perhaps it would be better to say "I feel comfortable around person x I believe is ILI" but if you could say "I feel comfortable around Aylen" it says far more, because everyone knows Aylen, regardless of what they believe of her type, so they can connect the dots however they so choose which means Aylen's own self typing errors need not confound the calculation. even if she is properly typed all the better, but its just as helpful without a self typing for the reason it can add meaningful information even in the absence of an accurate type, which is not really something "I feel comfortable around ILI" can really do, at least not to the same extent (its really saying "I feel comfortable around what I believe are the qualities of ILI"--which could mean a lot of things, in truth).

if we presuppose that people's self typings are accurate its like why even be here asking, besides it also blatantly flies in the face of reality if for no other reason people change type, they can't be both accurate unless we believe type itself changes

an even deeper question is why presuppose we know what an ITR feels like at all? what if conflict is really true love. this is actually a serious problem and goes to the fact the language itself fails to establish at some point what can only be taken on faith, which is essentially the true measurement problem of personality type in general. it also bears keeping in mind the ITR were formulated from the perspective of ILE as the integral and SEI as dual, which is not trivial information. it is why reading strat and DarkAngelFireWolf69 adds a lot of depth to what MBTI really represents, because it fleshes it out across different dimensions

this is how an Fi dom could potentially have ITR totally backward according to the objective world but it would nevertheless be entirely meaningful and accurate as to the words assigned to the inner feeling. if betas make you feel conflict and you internally sincerely believe that, you could easily distort the entire system around that. this is what IEEs tend to do with everything, and tend to recognize when other people do it, and they simply tune into it in order to understand their vis-a-vis. this is problematic when confronted with empirical reality, but until MBTI solves the measurement problem it is actually a valid approach to MBTI, as valid as any other because what is the objective reality? no one knows. This is why MBTI is primarily a therapeutic tool anyway, because the words are less important than the work. actually productive use would be an improvement in ITR, regardless of what you call it. in that sense I would definitely disdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdi sdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisd isdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdis disdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdi sdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisdisagree that IRL relationships certainly are more meaningful because you could easily sacrifice quite a bit of internet love on that altar

If you read this than you should consider killing yourself. I already do, so...

Reasoning is very fluid. You're getting lost in pure methods. Meanwhile you're disconnecting and not engaging with any actual subject matter. It's like your brain is caught in an infinite loop.
You can't figure out everything purely in your mind, you have to let information in. Open your mind and let the data in... it'll be ok.
And you also have to maintain some buffer between MBTI and reality within your mind. It's like you've adopted this absolute world view of MBTI and it's driven you insane trying to fit everything in to the categories, and it leads to these mental hangups where you loop indefinitely.

Having personally known Aylen for quite a while, ... her personality is very much defined by her dreamworld and her inner world... actually she fits the classical Jungian definition of Ni with more precision than most other Ni types on here. For example before she came to this forum she was part of a paranormal / dream interpretation forum. ... she does nothing but delve into spiritual realms and spiritual matters. She lives in her dreamworld, ... she is not an extravert... nothing about her is evidently extraverted. It's just the fact of her. I don't know what else you need to know. I mean, maybe it's the fact she's a fe(male) and not a typical autistic MBTI tard that's throwing you off. The fact you never have touched a wo man is interfering with your typings.

if we presuppose that people's self typings are accurate its like why even be here asking, besides it also blatantly flies in the face of reality if for no other reason people change type, they can't be both accurate unless we believe type itself changes

It's a good bet they're in the ballpark, they do know themselves better than you do. You asked yourself - what is an accurate typing? You have no clear way of defining that, only via your own limited viewpoint can you define it. Why should we presuppose that your typings are accurate? You have to let information in... let the data flow into your brain and let it form a memory and hold onto that memory and be happy

[Spermatozoa]

I am beginning to notice that an environment where I can engage Te (businessy, structured stuff like discussing priorities, purpose, ambitions) excites me a lot, as I feel like I'm learning something. I become very very energetic and enthusiastic, zoned in and really driven, like "let's do this right now. I feel great." Maybe I have been a little overenthusiastic, but discovering all these new skills I didn't realize I had the potential to use is really fantastic. For example, I would never have thought for a moment that system programming would be a viable career option for me - but the woman who interviewed me today suggested that I look into it.

I want to become very successful and powerful, and use this knowledge to make my music much much better. It is just great to be in a group where everyone is so motivated and determined to achieve one thing, whatever it takes, and I don't have to force them into anything. I like that no bullshit, we will win and take no prisoners type of mentality. But to feel that way, I truly need to be in the right environment, doing something I'm passionate about among people who I like and who respect me back. I am not automatically capable of such a sustained, relentless and kind of..detached drive. It's more a kind of lustful, spontaneous hunger, like "I want to fuck, you're mine", which comes in surges. I swing dramatically from light to dark, from jubilant to morose, and all the way back again. But when I have some purpose and sense of where I'm going, the surges dissipate and I become a lot more linear, articulate and productive.

I notice that at such times, the music I write is much better structured (so easier to follow), high energy and really directional. I will go down and play something now for a bit actually, while I still feel really turned on.

[Spermatozoa]

It's pretty clear Cui values Te. On voice whenever we'd joke around, act silly or premote a playful Fe like atmosphere, he'd get annoyed and want to go straight back to the topic he was discussing.

I love to do joke and play around, but it's in a direct and physical, sexual way, not a mental or abstract way if that makes sense. I don't relate to the goofy, silly cute Fe type of humor esp. if also Ne valuing. As I said before, I dislike banter; my humor is blunt, intense shock value stuff, and I'm usually at least half serious about making it happen. On here that comes across as lewd sex jokes and aggressively hitting on women for my own amusement. In social situations, if I haven't identified a girl I want to sleep with (or just don't feel that horny), I usually want to create some kind of creative, challenging group activity that I can throw my energy into, like writing a song, or going hiking. I love to share my life with other people, but I tend to focus intensely on one thing and love to express myself in an explosive, dramatic way. Alas, this just too much for many women, they are too stuck up and prissy for me. I dislike just casually "hanging out" for this reason, as the people tend to be very superficial and will avoid talking about how they feel and what they desire at whatever cost.

[Bertrand]

well, rat200Turbo may not believe in quadra but, I think a pretty clear pattern is developing as to where cuvi fits in

[powerrainbowcrystal]

Fuck off all you gamma retards.

j/k

50% at least.

[Bertrand]

what does it even mean to feel psychologically compatible, or moreover feel anything at all towards another person, online or in person..?

Problems of the theory of psychological compatibility

Among the key problems associated with the creation of the theory of psychological compatibility, we can note the following:

• The absence of generally accepted criteria for objective measurement of compatibility
  
• there is often a substitution of the notion of "compatibility" with the concept of "similarity," which is not the same thing
  
• another substitution is possible: "compatibility" (relatively long-term factor) is substituted for "attractiveness" (a relatively short-term factor)
  
• uncertainty of the status (the problem concerns either social psychology or personality psychology).
  
• the question remains whether there are "more compatible" or "less compatible" psychological types or traits of character.
  
• the question of psychological compatibility rests on another, more fundamental question about the optimal functioning of the individual (ie, the boundary between mental health, neuroses and pathologies), since it is implied that "compatibility" contributes to this optimal functioning, and "incompatibility" does not promote

this goes to theory of meaning behind ITR itself, implicating such concepts as "resonance" and "disorientation" (of note would be the intersection between disorientation and intervention: supervision, and acceleration and education: how the beneficiary experiences "looking up to" the benefactor--the benefactor speeds them along, and acceleration and discussion--quasi relations)

[Slade]

I didn't know insecurity had a type.

[Spermatozoa]

I didn't know insecurity had a type.

I don't know that butthurt had one, either. You are emotionally unstable and in no position to accuse me of being insecure.

[Slade]

I don't know that butthurt had one, either.

Haha, on a more serious note the problem here is that you represent a caricature of a type more than an actual type. If you look at the patterns of SEE's and EIEs, you don't fit either particularly either well. I think it could be easy to confuse the things you say for different elements. It's difficult to get around the insecurity portion of your personality, because I think it's a significant amount and comes across distinctly in your posts across the forum. In order to come to any definitive conclusion, this needs to be understood as a factor that is obfuscating your true type. I'm skeptical that in your case, a conclusion can be reached without video. This isn't atypical for 3's in my experience, since you can't really trust what they say about themselves a lot of the time.

[Olimpia]

Am I the only one who doesn't see SEE?
No pun intended.

[Olimpia]

TBH, I find Cuiv is going through typical image type problems. Trying each type persona on for size, playing it up for a while, but then discarding it because it's not actually his truth. But mistaking it for it, because he wants to be closer to his ideal self.

It's like he's trying to see which persona or role he likes best. There's a liking or affinity for Gamma types, most likely due to his Imago, so he keeps returning to that quadra.

Being Sx/So and also personally wanting to be extroverted, because that's how he feels and that's a better persona than being an introvert, he keeps self typing as an extrovert. Personally, I find it more likely he's actually an introvert, based on his behaviour and functional setup.

I know that people think I'm crazy for saying this, but I still find he's most likely Sx/So 4. That kind of person is emotionally intense, dramatic, which could superficially be mistaken for EIE-ness. That person wants to be significant and unique. In his case, he wants to be more like a 3, that's his ideal persona atm. He strives to be more like a 3. It's connected to his Te valuing, and likely Ne ego. He keeps talking about being a 3, and keeps mentioning the buzzwords, but he acts nothing like a 3... Nor a Gamma extrovert for that matter...

 

Sexual/Social 4

This subtype is able to connect with others and with life itself, but always with an undertone of volatility and a tendency to dramatize. They are the most involved and connected of the subtypes of Four. They can go from relationship to relationship, seemingly tortured by each one. They are the most driven of the subtypes of Four to express themselves publicly and type Four celebrities are commonly found with this stacking. This subtype has a real difficulty remaining grounded, partly due to the undeveloped self-pres instinct. Although they can appear almost Eight-like at times with their lust for life and desire for passionate experience, they lack the focus of the Eight and the instinctual energy that would keep them grounded. Sometimes alcohol or substance abuse can be a problem. These Fours become more healthy when they learn to control their impulsivenss and focus their energies.

And here and here are a good descriptions that emphasize the competitive nature of SX 4, which can be mistaken for 3ness or 8ness. I find they describe him rather well.

 

Sexual (Des. 1)- The Fours of this variant are emotionally intense, and they express themselves through relationships and high-pitch lives. They have a competitive streak, and their emotions toward another (especially their love interests) run the gamut of total devotion and burning hatred. They are also the "face" of romantic poets and tortured artists, working in fervour on their art in between their outbursts of temper. They typically lead very unconventional lifestyles as a kind of personal statement. When in stress fours of this variant express their envy more openly, and can act out through violence or self-harm.

Sexual (Des. 2)- Shameless. Even if it's shameful, I will still get what I want, do anything to satisfy my desires. The more I complain, the more I get (this strategy works well as child, but not as adult). Viking ENVY, cannabalistic drive, competitive hate. Oral aggression - wishing mixed with anger. Sin of Cain - I envy you therefore I kill you. If I envy wealth, I start a revolution. Hateful, outspoken with anger, envy as competition.

Sexual (Des. 3)- At best focused on distinctive competency, works to make the organization the best; at worst, competitive, arrogant ("misunderstood genius"), angry envy, too intense.

Sexual (Des. 4)- The picture of a 4 who is intensely envious and rejecting of 'typical' measurements of acceptance, success, and group norms; tries to stand out; is very elitist, may dress extremely unconventionally/provocatively, some even flashy or gaudy, to kind of 'counter-enviously' splash their disregard of fitting in or being like the rest by their manner, dress, and professed attitudes and beliefs (about which sometimes they can be quite loud, just to measure the shock value or garner the attention). The affected attitude is pride in who they are, and their differentness.

[Slade]

I don't know that butthurt had one, either. You are emotionally unstable and in no position to accuse me of being insecure.

Hey, if it bothers you so much maybe don't post so much bullshit overcompensating for your lack of masculinity and social skills. Seriously, if you want to find your type you are going to eventually have to own up to who you are and not this image of what you are trying to get people to believe you are. It's transparent and you look like a fool.

[FDG]

Beta nf for sure

[FDG]

♫ I'll just tell you what I see ♫

♫ Your type is clearly EIE ♫

♫ Back then I pondered XEE ♫

♫ Though you are nowhere close to me ♫

♫ Some LSI should kick your ass ♫

♫ So you become a man with class ♫

♫ Yes, Beta quadra is your friend ♫

♫ And thus, my roast has found an end ♫

lol. perfect.

[Chae]

@Olimpia Yes. I had the same thought, and other types came to mind. 9,3,4, and 6 have a very hard time identifying themselves in socionics, especially ethical TIMs. Ethical 3 wants a type others admire & that gives them compensatory confidence (hell! They will choose the most popular, outstanding type just because!), ethical 4 types as the opposite of what they are and indulge in the painful cognitive dissonance not getting the facts straight, ethical 9 types as everything others suggest and then feel resentment, and ethical 6 baselessly doubts it all and ends up going back and forth with no sense. I always suggest to look at the pattern of behavior that occurs around the person's journey to their type, and it does show what they are about, ironically.

[FDG]

Thinking about It seriously - in your big 5 test you had a score of 0 in conscentiousness - was It always like this for you, or are you Just going through a rough time?

[Bertrand]

https://youtu.be/MUGqgJVOQw4?t=316

the more powerful the lead function the more distance the communicative field covers

[Alomoes]

Hrrm. not Gamma. Maybe beta. Don't know. Close, but no cigar. Try ESTp? Uh hey, I pretty much know this to be true, and by "know" its quite like uh, I'm really really sure. Hey, you gotta set a point where you are sure enough to say.

So uh yeah. ESTp. To be fair, I haven't done all the work I normally would, my confidence is pretty high, and I'm getting lazy. Also, fun time, an ESTp woman did make a move on me, and it really confused both me and her the way she did it. Like physical contact is not a turn on. Like whoops. Either way, oh well, who cares. Huh. It seems Olimpia really has it backwards. Huh. Like she said ESFp. I say ESTp. Heh. Close, but no cigar.

Uh what could I say to convince? Oh yeah, you know gamma? No alcohol, at least I think. I mean, like I am a teetotaler. Pretty much, I'll be that guy who sits and watches the "good" decisions. Anyways, yeah, that's one of many reasons why no. You probably want someone who'll drink with you. Like an INFp. They love the booze. I think. I'll ask. Actually, it's possible that a person I knew who was really into Ann Rand might have been one. I'm like, Ann Rand is probably wrong, but hey, I don't know, I never read the books. One of the things INTj and INTp agree upon is Ann Rand is bad. Probably good books though. The INTj would probably be like "you are despicable" on serious discussion of Ann Rand. And I'd be like hey, sure. I gotta discuss him in the socionics relations discussion.

[Spermatozoa]

Hey, if it bothers you so much maybe don't post so much bullshit overcompensating for your lack of masculinity and social skills. Seriously, if you want to find your type you are going to eventually have to own up to who you are and not this image of what you are trying to get people to believe you are. It's transparent and you look like a fool.

What are you trying to achieve here, anyway?

Your posting style is highly reactive, full of insults and shaming tactics. You probably think that if you persist long enough, I will break down, submit and conform to your perverse standards of what's acceptable. You are a poisonous man, Slade, and your pretensions to the contrary are the reason that I despise you.

[Bertrand]

people don't go around "shaming" people at random, you realize that being "shamed" points to something other than a pure arbitrary power play, right? you might want to tap into whatever is causing "the shaming" beyond the fact that it functions to suppress you, as if that is their goal in a vacuum. its like you really believe anyone who does anything you perceive as counter to your purposes is merely acting without reason, for the fact that you privately determine what reasonable is, and identify it entirely as whatever your purpose is. there's a ridiculous degree of solipsism to that position. its like, would you agree that, in theory, Slade could have a point?, if that is possible and he could have a point, but he just doesn't under the current circumstances--why? if you can't answer that question without resorting to the fact that you simply take exception to the fact that it functions to reduce your power, you realize you've identified good and evil %100 with your own whims, right?

unless you plan on writing the Bible of our times, I feel like thats an untenable position that calls for some self examination

[Spermatozoa]

@Bertrand

Slade has no legitimate grievances. I hadn't ever posted at him before he started to direct his vitriolic rants at me in a number of threads. To be honest, I still can't comprehend why he seems to hate me so much. The man clearly has some problems with emotional reactivity. Another poster on here has told me that he lashed out at her, as well, simply because she made him feel uncomfortable.

Whether you think he "has a point" or not is totally irrelevant, as my masculinity and social skills are not anybody's business except mine. Most adults understand that the personal is not the political. People have the right to not see their intimate life vindictively sliced and diced in public.

[Spermatozoa]

So now that's over with, let's be a bit more positive

[Bertrand]

Whether you think he "has a point" or not is totally irrelevant, as my masculinity and social skills are not anybody's business except mine.

you say that, but its obviously not true

its precisely your warped "masculinity" that creates social consequences. you can't socialize with other people and then dismiss any criticism arising out of those interactions as being "no one elses business" its precisely other people's business because you made it public

[NdFeB08]

Haven't seen many of your post Cuiv, but I get the impression you're most likely an ethical type with valued Se.
You seem very invested in passionate self-expression and leaving your mark in the world (altough could that be your enneagram?? Someone correct me if that's the case), and even though you probably value Se, power dynamics and smooth/natural pressure exertion in your environment don't seem to be your main way of functioning. Usually when SLE or SEE go about their Se, there's a casual and effortless element of force in their way of speaking/acting, but you seem to be more concerned with an explosion of passion and romantic demonstrations rather than pure irrational Se ing.

Being liked/loved, external admiration, and the way *others* feel about you seems to be very important to you (is this enneagram stuff again, fuck this shit I'm about to give up, that's the thing with having a 3 in your tritype; they sort of morph into the shape of best performance) Clearly establishing your position in a group also seems pretty important to you. I think you're most likely Beta: "to suffer and conquer, you're with us or against us, go up in the ladder in this system or reject it and create my own".

As for stacking sx/so seems pretty accurate, and looking at the enneagram 4w3 with a strong 3 wing might fit better than straight up 3w4

[Spermatozoa]

As certain individuals refuse to stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks, this thread is now closed.