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Thread: How do you type celebrities?

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    Default How do you type celebrities?

    It's really hard.

    Take Ellie Goulding,

    Attachment 12034

    Seems to me like she's quite a shy girl at heart, isn't too comfortable with sexually expressive stuff, but, also the impression is that it's been thrust upon her by management, marketing department of the music company. So she's not really portraying herself? But image is part of what's required for the package in order to be marketed in music.

    In this photo,

    Attachment 12035

    She looks very IEE.

    So, I type her as IEE, mainly from impressions and VI.

    I'm wondering how you type celebrities.

    Apart from impressions of what's actually there behind the marketing, ie, how much in interviews do famous people really give away? It's the moments that they're off guard that we'd hope to get a glimpse of their type, rather than a crafted image.

    So I suppose the things they have done in life is useful, not only what they say, unless the interview is very indepth so more likely they're showing more of themself than an image or pre-prepared answers.

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    for me looks mostly as IEE too

    the best way to type famouses and offline is nonverbal. biography books may to be useful. journalist interviews and what people say on public may contain too much of distortions like wrong or preconceivy filtered info
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarper View Post
    Apart from impressions of what's actually there behind the marketing, ie, how much in interviews do famous people really give away? It's the moments that they're off guard that we'd hope to get a glimpse of their type, rather than a crafted image.

    So I suppose the things they have done in life is useful, not only what they say, unless the interview is very indepth so more likely they're showing more of themself than an image or pre-prepared answers.
    This idea that celebrities in general somehow portray an "image" that is inconsistent with their actual type, in my experience is completely without basis. Where are you getting the idea that interview answers are preprepared? I have seen no evidence of this, most interviews seem more or less spontaneous. They do need to be somewhat more in depth (preferably more than 10 minutes long) to be helpful in typing someone. If you discount 90% of a person's behavior and substitute it with VI and random moments that are supposedly "slips" in the mask, then you can essentially support any typing you want. This is divination, not science. You can supplement interviews with biography and accounts from people who know them but this info is generally harder to come by.

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    Musicians and athletes are just like normal people but actors would know how to act like any type they want loooooooooooooooool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    This idea that celebrities in general somehow portray an "image" that is inconsistent with their actual type, in my experience is completely without basis. Where are you getting the idea that interview answers are preprepared? I have seen no evidence of this, most interviews seem more or less spontaneous. They do need to be somewhat more in depth (preferably more than 10 minutes long) to be helpful in typing someone. If you discount 90% of a person's behavior and substitute it with VI and random moments that are supposedly "slips" in the mask, then you can essentially support any typing you want. This is divination, not science. You can supplement interviews with biography and accounts from people who know them but this info is generally harder to come by.
    I'm surprised at your response, and it makes me wonder if you use erroneous information for typing.

    It's common sense to say that someone at work can portray a different image. Salespeople can and often do turn it on to clinch the sale, as for mucisians and such, as they say, it's called show business for a reason.

    That aside, there's an abundance of musical artists who produce the same style of music and have the same way of acting, it's called what's in vogue. Not a fan of this guy but not to get side tracked, but he's got to know something since he's been in the industry for a while,

    http://www.eonline.com/uk/news/67539...rol-the-charts


    "There are no bands or singers who become successful without overwhelming marketing. There are no surprise stories," he explained to Boulder Weekly. "Everything is stringently controlled, obvious and predictable and has exactly the same content."
    He continued, "So we are now in the era of marketed pop stars, which means that the labels fully control the charts, and consequently the public has lost interest."
    It's very rare that a record label does something for the good of music. Thus we are force-fed such as Ed Sheeran and Sam Smith, which at least means that things can't possibly get any worse," he explained. "It is sad, though. There's no spontaneity now, and it all seems to be unsalvageable."
    It's pretty obvious that a lot of what we see when people are performing, will be controlled, so I agree non verbal and such is good to cut the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

    An artist marketed as a pop singer, won't engage in controversial statements, it's bad for sales.

    But, there's no right or wrong really, I was just surprised when you said there's no evidence. Another one too - Has image overtaken music - image is a really important part of branding. Maybe if an artist has been around longer, they got more chances to express themselves, on or off stage.

    However, let's just enjoy the music and the films, it's not all doom and gloom ha, and there's many talented people and catchy tunes

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    Celebrities etc often desire or are expected to display an acceptable public image no matter what way they choose to present themselves.
    They may also personally wish to come across in certain lights and may be hurt when some things about themselves are aired in public causing them a desire to hide various parts of themselves.
    To what extent this all occurs is mostly up to them, however those involved with their marketing can also play a role in what appears to the public.
    Social type masks to help present themselves in various ways may come into play as may at times various forms of niceties or even acting etc.


    Typing to me is about an overview of the whole person in question to the best of ones ability with the information available.
    When new relevant information arises it can assist to either build or dissemble the thought/picture of likely type.
    The quicker I can reach a sort of conclusion and then when replayed in the mind that conclusion still remains as most likely, then perhaps I am on the correct typing track.


    With Ellie Goulding for example the typing of IEE seems a bit off to me.
    I knew not much about her before today except that she was a singer and have only spent around an hour thinking over her type.
    At this stage I think she seems more introverted than extroverted. Her face displays a thinking look often when photographed just as much as any feeling look it seems. This is less common in females meaning I need to investigate this further.


    She describes herself as slightly tomboyish as a child. Riding her bike in the countryside a lot and skating. She thinks of herself as playful and attracted mostly to someone who is funny and makes her laugh.
    Others describe her as nice, silly, considerate and someone who is not overly interested in fashion at all. It’s more that fashion and marketing etc has been cast upon her through rise to fame rather than taken up by herself.
    Ellie thinks of herself as having a resting scary thinking face with interviewers seemingly agreeing by holding the opinion preinterview of her as a bit intimidating or scary like.
    Scary for others is jokingly something she would like to keep the illusion of intact.
    Ellie is changing the subjects of her music to reflect where the world is heading, over her earlier style of ‘love’.
    To me she presents as a mixture of feminine yet a little manly in sitting style etc when she is with someone who she thinks is somewhat supportive in nature.


    I shall keep trying to further my understanding of her usage of the information elements for at this stage it is lacking in the picture.
    She does seem to come across a little like IEE so I will consider if she possibly uses a mask of this variety.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...nd-troubles-us
    I keep reflecting and building upon this all in my mind until I think she roughly has a workable Socionics type.


    I would like to reach the day where I can instantaneously type well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarper View Post
    I'm surprised at your response, and it makes me wonder if you use erroneous information for typing.
    He excessly trusts to divinations on random public words, which are easy to falsificate, to be not sincere, which are not enough to understand the type clearly. He _irrationally_ thinks such doubtful speculations based on doubtful information are better and kind of "scientific". Meanwhile, avoids taking into account the nonverbal, which gives more correct and full typing info, hence is better. And naively trusts to heresies like Reinin's traits.
    He seems wants to use maximum of T as principle, affraids to use N methods, even where such approach is lesser appropriate due to lack of good data for T. While to use T in such way he needs to trust to words like a child. Like people are fully sincere and are not preconceived.
    It's common for those who due to nurture or naiveness associate objective only with T and think N as not equal function. They like forget the core types theory and ignore the result of my experiment which proved nonverbal method as, at least, equal. They don't want to notice the evident that words of journalistic interviews can't be much trustworthy and are doubtful to be supposed as enough for sure typing, same they need blindly trust to words in questionnaires. As in other case they'll have no material for sure typing, while they need to be sure, - they like have no choice besides closing their eyes on the reality. The objective reality is lesser important for bush and similar ones, than to make reasoning by T.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shay View Post
    Celebrities etc often desire or are expected to display an acceptable public image
    All people do this. While to control words is easy. Besides people are highly influenced externally to think and talk by some ways. Besides there are regions you may discuss which relate to your weak functions, but anyway you may be sure in particular things in those regions. Bushes will type you to having those functions as strong. Because much trusting to words is their only way to be able to type, irrational and naive way.

    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    If you discount 90% of a person's behavior and substitute it with VI and random moments that are supposedly "slips" in the mask, then you can essentially support any typing you want.
    The correct typing I want. And your naive trusting to words is against it.
    Think what % of people behavior relates to nonverbal, which you baselessly discount. How much you need to know a human to type him correctly, if 10-30 min talking or 1-2 hour text questionnaire are generally thought as enough. And how much is "mask" in public words where people are not highly sincere, while may highly to control themselves (unlike with fine nonverbal used for typing). And what % of the needed for sure typing behavior is in random journalistic talkings, while nonverbal in several minutes generally gives complete such info.
    Last edited by Sol; 11-28-2017 at 07:38 AM.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    All people do this.
    Yes, it just applies a little more to them than most.

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    There's things to be seen behind the mask so to speak, some of this comes from experience and 'knowing what a good deal is', which might be type related, ie experience to be S related and business sense of deal - Te.

    As for Ellie Goulding, it's clear from non-verbal she has internal disquiet, on checking this further,

    My surroundings would trigger a panic attack, so I couldn't go to the studio unless I was lying down in the car with a pillow over my face. I used to beat myself up about it […] There were a couple of times after I released Delirium when I was doing promo and thought, Oh god, it's coming back, it's coming back, but it didn't. I think my body has become quite good at controlling anxiety.
    But then she worked to control anxiety with exercise, some boxing and kickboxing.
    Internal anxiety like that doesn't have to be type related, but it could be said that it's IEE type seeking Si, it's my impression as Si type from her. How she speaks is more ethical than logical,

    On Brexit,

    I truly believe this is one of the most devastating things to happen during my lifetime. I felt a fear I've never felt this morning
    This is an intuitive response based on feelings too, as in, there's no logics that an ILE would put forward to support their hunch of not wanting Brexit.

    Issues with this though, is that one can pour through numerous quotes and interviews and struggle to get anywhere. It's best IMO to have an experience built up on types of people IRL, and your own type. With this experience you can extend that to people you don't know - celebrities and such.

    Over-discussion of type has a rebound too. It's not good to over think it. I associate this to when I had singing lessons before, discovering I had some abilities to sing and was co-erced to take part in a play, I was told not to over-practice as then it becomes counter-productive. With experiences comes the right types of hunches.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarper View Post
    It's best IMO to have an experience built up on types of people IRL, and your own type. With this experience you can extend that to people you don't know - celebrities and such.
    I agree. It has taken me years to become confident in the typings of those I know but once this occurs it is then easier to type others.
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...=1#post1230872

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarper View Post
    I'm surprised at your response, and it makes me wonder if you use erroneous information for typing.

    It's common sense to say that someone at work can portray a different image. Salespeople can and often do turn it on to clinch the sale, as for mucisians and such, as they say, it's called show business for a reason.

    That aside, there's an abundance of musical artists who produce the same style of music and have the same way of acting, it's called what's in vogue. Not a fan of this guy but not to get side tracked, but he's got to know something since he's been in the industry for a while,

    http://www.eonline.com/uk/news/67539...rol-the-charts






    It's pretty obvious that a lot of what we see when people are performing, will be controlled, so I agree non verbal and such is good to cut the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.

    An artist marketed as a pop singer, won't engage in controversial statements, it's bad for sales.

    But, there's no right or wrong really, I was just surprised when you said there's no evidence. Another one too - Has image overtaken music - image is a really important part of branding. Maybe if an artist has been around longer, they got more chances to express themselves, on or off stage.

    However, let's just enjoy the music and the films, it's not all doom and gloom ha, and there's many talented people and catchy tunes
    You seem to have missed my point. I'm not saying there is no marketing or branding, but any marketer worth their salt is not going to just randomly affix some image onto a person, they're going to look at that person's special qualities and give them a role that makes use of them in the best way. If they require them to consistently act out of character then they will fail at portraying the image. If you learn more about socionics, you may see as I have that the common sense idea about how much control we have over our behavior is largely wrong. What Morrissey says is consistent with this: "there are no surprise stories" -- here he isn't talking about interview content, he's talking about news stories that come out about the celebrity (which I don't really use as typing evidence anyways). "the labels fully control the charts" - ok, so what? This has nothing to do with the singers' behavior.

    Your other article gives the example of Lady Gaga - since when has Lady Gaga ever shied from "engaging in controversial statements"? Instead she has been extremely outspoken (including about her political beliefs) and attention-seeking. Much or all of this is of her own accord -- she is simply an attention-seeking person by nature (which itself is related to type!). What you're saying may have some validity when it comes to the most generic of the generic manufactured stars, primarily child stars like Justin Bieber, One Direction, etc. who have some cookie-cutter music written for them by someone like Dr. Luke, Max Martin, etc. But even then, Justin Bieber was saying some definitely unscripted things from a young age, and ended up rebelling against his wholesome image as many child stars do. Ellie Goulding on the other hand writes her own music so she is already very far from being this kind of phenomenon. Same goes for the other examples.

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    I think you can just contextualize most people, including actors, by this I mean be like "ok this is a person who works in hollywood and is on a tv show promoting their latest movie" or whatever, and evaluate them based on that. sensing aspects matter for sure, but keeping in mind actors know how to control what they're putting out to a greater degree than the average person, simply because of the experience dimension, which would effect their output. I also think people subconsciously allow themselves to be biased by the prior roles actors play, its hard not to identify them with some of their notable performances and characters. this is precisely how actors get typecast, although sometimes perhaps it is because their natural type blends so well with the fictional type of the character they portray, so it isn't to say typecasting isn't without reason sometimes. all this is to say that professional actors especially those with a big mythos around them are more complex to type, but not impossible. like anyone its just another layer to the onion, but one in this case we can say exists in some form categorically because of their profession. at the end of the day the same aspects that make them more difficult to type and the factors that can confound typing them are present in all people, its just that we can speak somewhat categorically about the specific aspects of professional acting, and cultural "anchoring" (this is a big part) that their roles create, that make typing harder. this is because they're hitting closely on aspects of the collective unconscious itself, so they're bound up with it in a way that's a little more complex than what we bring to the table when we type the average person who doesn't have this aspect in play (although they will have their own unique aspects, as all people do)

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    She can't be that shy if she's letting the managers exploit her like that, right? Of course their image is often different then their real self but the fact they always go along with it for money means it's not completely different from their real personas. Also a lot of shy people are incredibly perverted.... it's a common thing, so it doesn't surprise me too much. (sorry if this sounds too harsh but she cant be that uncomfortable with it, if its rewarding her handsomely right...)

    Was she born into fame or did she go after it or was it thrust upon her? Those are also variables. (I've noticed that the ones born into it, like Gwyneth Paltrow are the ones that are usually insufferably arrogant and the like, because they really have no means to relate to 'common' people.) These are like slytherin pure bloods or something lol. Of course you can learn to be arrogant over time, but there is a thing where somebody can't really shake off their roots completely y'know.

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    Lady Gaga=ILE

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    Anything could happen = intuition of possibilities.

    https://youtu.be/5hzgS9s-tE8

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    You seem to have missed my point. I'm not saying there is no marketing or branding, but any marketer worth their salt is not going to just randomly affix some image onto a person, they're going to look at that person's special qualities and give them a role that makes use of them in the best way. If they require them to consistently act out of character then they will fail at portraying the image. If you learn more about socionics, you may see as I have that the common sense idea about how much control we have over our behavior is largely wrong. What Morrissey says is consistent with this: "there are no surprise stories" -- here he isn't talking about interview content, he's talking about news stories that come out about the celebrity (which I don't really use as typing evidence anyways). "the labels fully control the charts" - ok, so what? This has nothing to do with the singers' behavior.

    Your other article gives the example of Lady Gaga - since when has Lady Gaga ever shied from "engaging in controversial statements"? Instead she has been extremely outspoken (including about her political beliefs) and attention-seeking. Much or all of this is of her own accord -- she is simply an attention-seeking person by nature (which itself is related to type!). What you're saying may have some validity when it comes to the most generic of the generic manufactured stars, primarily child stars like Justin Bieber, One Direction, etc. who have some cookie-cutter music written for them by someone like Dr. Luke, Max Martin, etc. But even then, Justin Bieber was saying some definitely unscripted things from a young age, and ended up rebelling against his wholesome image as many child stars do. Ellie Goulding on the other hand writes her own music so she is already very far from being this kind of phenomenon. Same goes for the other examples.
    For me these things miss key points.

    Lady Gaga isn't 'controversial' as you put it, Lady Gaga has the standard laissez faire attitude consistent with Hollywood and performing artists: It's a liberal position. It's actually quite expected for a musician to be as this, other viewpoints will reduce figures.

    But, it's not really just about viewpoints, it's about underlying characteristics of viewpoints which socionics uses as information metabolism, that is, you can have someone of one type in favor of a controversial subject, and someone of the same type against the same controversial subjects, it's what's going on behind the glass that is where it's at.

    But, I was curious how you typed celebrities, and you answered, what irritated me though was when you answered, you answered with authority with a statement based on naivety rather than reality, but ... I did ask to hear how others typed celebrities, and you provided that, albeit backing up what I said: It's complicated, so for answering my question, thank you

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    It's usually easy, I think, because there is often lots of material. I just look at lots of videos, interviews, documentaries. Then I can see the person in different situations, formal, informal, as today, or when younger.

    For me the key is to search for good video material. Not just the first hit on youtube. I don't care so much about biography, I don't think it's good for typing. And also take enough time to watch the person. Several hours.

    Often the husbands or wives of the celebrity can also be found and that gives additional hints.

    All typing should imo be in some way or another based on ones own bank of typed individuals in life. So it's important to personally know people of all types, the more the better.
    The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.

    (Jung on Si)

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    Yes, a crafted image for marketing differs from someone's real personality.
    No, a crafted marketing image is ever going to be developed enough to change what IEs someone uses.

    Ellie Goulding, she's the chick who cheated on Ed Sheeran and then got put on blast on that one song right?
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    to be fair, fuck ed sheeran

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    Generally I feel more comfortable when a possible type for an individual appears to me, rather than have me actively trying to figure out an individual's type. I have little confidence in on-the-spot typings, particularly with individuals I am not familiar with.

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    When searching for interviews, I look for 10 minutes plus and specific types of hosts. A panel discussion is pretty good, much more than the most intricate biography. There's not much more you can do.

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    I think a particular rule of thumb that holds true in discussions of method, regarding subjective evaluation, is that the people who know the most are practically indistinguishable from the people who know the least.

    The more rationalized an internal process like that is, the less I trust that brains to move at a speed fast enough to pick up something I can't.

    The smartest kids never showed their work in math. So when someone says something profoundly stupid to you, that's when you have the best chance to learn.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    phoo yeah, I find thats also a product of them calling into question often times the most radical presuppositions which can be either mind boggling smart or stupid depending on how you look at it

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