I find Enneagram fills in certain gaps that Socionics leaves open or is blind to.
that's one way to put it
Yes. But everyone doesn't have a functional specialization of it, like Ni. It's like Si and comfort. Most people know about comfort, but some people are more specialized in it. SiOriginally Posted by Chains
I agree that Ni is not just time. (and Si is not just comfort). But it's still a useful label. Imo it's pretty easy to see that perception of momentum and ongoing process ("time"), roughly follows the position of Ni. Working with ESE can be a pain, when even short delays are perceived as the end of the world. Constant need to interrupt etc.
When Ni is in the base it is strong and personal. It doesn't necessarily follow the standards of society. "what time it is" etc.
The decisive thing is not the reality of the object, but the reality of the subjective factor, i.e. the primordial images, which in their totality represent a psychic mirror-world. It is a mirror, however, with the peculiar capacity of representing the present contents of consciousness not in their known and customary form but in a certain sense sub specie aeternitatis, somewhat as a million-year old consciousness might see them.
(Jung on Si)
I agree with you; just a few nitpicks:
Ni is not just time nor is Si just comfort, but any conceptual usage of them must account for not exclude them in any way, since that is their sine qua non
in other words time and comfort components are necessary not sufficient conceptual conditions for Ni/Si
also the fact that base Ni is personal doesn't allow anyone to be Ni through the backdoor, with "well that's just my Ni"--Ni that is conscious, idiosyncratic and weak is PoLR
Strong Ni types are concentrated not on avoiding, but irrational feeling what and how to do. And then follow own N feelings with assurance, without anxiety.
With weak Ni function - you have higher anxiety about future, as it's hard to be sure in any final - good or bad one.
What you describe as irrational feelings of danger which lead you to try avoid something maybe due to higher general anxiety.
Michelle Phan is IEI, but miss Olimpia has more similarity with ESE bloggers in my list
You assign her as the leading function her polr, that's funny.
IEI, obviously, since Olimpia is good at socionics is knows her own type.
She is making a point to be warm and to express herself so you can get to know her in a five minute video, but this doesn't make her an Fe subtype (if subtypes are really a thing). All the IEIs I know are very friendly in the right circumstance and I invest their energy when they spend time with people, especially if they want to make a good impression.
To the people who are saying she is ESE, no, you can tell her Fe is her creative function. She is consciously using Fe to make the video, "playing a role" (contact) as well as mentioning that she is self conscious how she is coming across (cautious). You can tell she starts the video a little out of breath and with more dramatic inflection until she fall into her natural cadence a few minutes in, when she begins to focus on communicating the content of the video. The ESEs I know would not need to get in the rhythm of Fe (both because they have base Fe and demonstrative Se) nor would feel the pressure of trying to make a good persona (character) while also worrying about how this video will effect more videos they would like to make in the future. ESEs are almost like emotional tornadoes who express without considering the consequences, which is the main supervision criticism of IEI->ESE.
Also, IEI can have a hard time expressing how they see the world, since Ni by nature is ineffable, and end up reducing their depth of insight into something that is easily understandable. I think Olimplia made this video for a lot of reasons that are sublimated in this video, but not spoken of. Even as an IEI, I can have a hard time typing other IEIs for this reason. I often wait until I can fully see how a person is operating to type them, but for IEIs and sometimes ILIs, I keep on waiting but am only left with a "gap". Like in how many typing videos does the person say they want to play a character in your life? I can't think of any. I get the impression that there is a l.o.t behind that statement, but I can't see what. And she says a lot of very significant things in this video without explaining them.
I should add that I made this video on the spot without the intention for people to type me based on it, but after I had uploaded it, I figured I could very well post it on here for the fun of it.
tryna get into dat comfy IEI space
usin muh enneagram, missin the point of it all
Yes and no.
Ni is a model used to represent someone who has very strong , idiosyncratic, mental representations of associations that pulls one inward. Think Ne without a release valve.
Time conception is secondary to this. The world passes by while being caught in the inner realm.
that's one way to characterize transcending the time axis. sort of like saying Si is about getting fat. or Ti is autism. or Fe is hysteria
I've never mentioned being anxious about those things. I simply just don't get involved in things that could potentially cause me (esp. irreparable long-term) harm (I am okay with short-term harm if it doesn't impede on a good future).
It is like seeing an arrow flying towards you from far away, and stepping to the side to avoid its negative impact. I guess you could assume this kind of reaction implies anxiety. Dunno. I suppose you could be afraid of the possibility of the arrow hitting you. But in most cases, I am not afraid, because I can see the arrow from far ahead hours or even days in advance and I can simply move to the side in time, so there is no anxiety, for it is certain I won't be harmed.
With my ESE-Si (6 fix) mother on the other hand, she is typically anxious from start to finish; it is like she cannot see the arrow coming exactly, but she has the impression it could hit her at any moment. It is like she cannot perceive the arrow's trajectory in time. To her it looks as if it could hit her in 5 hours or 5 seconds, and that uncertainty puts her into great distress. She seems to only see fragments of its trajectory. (Motion is really just action in time.) That blindness considering developments in time can make her even "imagine" an arrow flying towards her when it isn't (Ne HA?), and it is just gonna fly right past her, etc. I tell her she will be fine, and she doesn't have to worry, nothing bad will happen, but this mostly falls unto deaf ears; and she can only calm down hours after nothing has happened to her.
The only time I feel anxiety concerning future developments is when I get the impression I won't be able to avoid the negative impact and it is inevitable – when I feel like I have no power to change an outcome. This can drive me into great despair. I had that feeling of despair several months before Trump was elected for president. But on the Election Day, I was calm.
no one likes inevitable negative impacts. that's not 4 dee en eye. 4d Ni is actually seeing the good in it. or seeing the meaninglessness of it all. on a long enough time line everyone dies. does that give you anxiety?
I actually think this sort of stuff is why gulenko invented DCNH, so alpha could distinguish itself within itself instead of feeling the need to corrupt the entire socion. sort of like to do what people misuse enneagram to do, but with legitimacy
im sure there's a lot of reasons you're not like your mom
While I'm sure you are according to accent on avoiding in your text.
You may look at my bloggers examples. Maybe this will help you to understand my and some other people opinion about your type as ESE. There are ESE and IEI women for comparision, base Ti and Se dudes, etc.
I think this is because both IEI and ESE are farsighted, but IEI is Yielding and Irrational while ESE is Obstinate and Rational. Besides, IEI has T1 and ESE has T4
Type: Weird.
Prob not.....just objectively weird.E4?
best joke of today
I think they mean in Reinin dichotomies (I'd have to check); Olimpia, you come across as a bit more with-it than i'd imagine IEI to be and maybe even extroverted /imo
@1:56
Insisting on the nonsense by evident heresy gets 2nd place.
Do you even know the Model A definition of Farsighted?
I'd be willing to bet money that any usage in this thread of "carefree" and "farsighted" will be hopelessly confused, because people rely on common notions of the words that bear little to no resemblance to what they really mean. if anything it creates an image in my mind of the IEI/ESE thing being reversed precisely because of how the words disorient anyone using them
not only that but they're derivitive qualities of other traits, so just use them instead of trying to transform them into a behavioral stereotype via renin, because thats the exact opposite of how they function
because Reinin's traits are bs
Let's not get lost in semantics, the point is that there are indicators to tell what a person's ego functions are. As you said, we can assess how a person is thinking through what they are communicating, when, how, etc. Consistency is part of it - any individual piece of work, writing, or thought isn't useful as everyone uses the information elements to some extent. Not only this, IE's can be trained in specific areas to a competent degree with enough effort. So, while this essay is interesting, it's not particularly telling.
A key aspect of Ni is that it is abstract. It forms intangible connections not only in what it predicts, but in the concepts it ties together. So what I ask myself is how is this person drawing conclusions, and I ask myself what level this is occurring on.
Is it the abstract or the tangible? You can see Ni in the associations someone makes pertaining to what they are talking about. There's more to this to identifying Ni, but this is the relevant part in regards to you. The level you look at things at is tangible. It's literal, its traceable. I don't see the abstractness, the pictures, the associations. You don't 'look' like an IEI, the subtle elements of aggression, the otherworldliness, the madness. You sort of present yourself, your mind, on a platter.
Hey, feel free to PM me with any opinions about my type
Since when do IEIs show "subtle elements of aggression"?
You have a very particular view on IEI. Sounds like 8 fix, core 4, Sp/Sx or something; and not 1D Se.
Anyway, I know you are set on typing me as SEI. You also seem to have some kind of problem with me. It seems like you are constantly irritated by me, and that influences your typing. But oh well.
Ehh, I'd like to comment my thoughts here but I kind of lost my nerve somewhere along the way for getting pulled into debates that never get anywhere and leaves both parties involved feeling like shit. Goes for any hot topic or type me thread.
The video might be enough to confirm the general impression of Fe ego -- wanting to play a positive role in people's lives -- but other than that...not so helpful. I notice you tend to speak in very vague terms about what your goals are.
And yes you should watch the Neverending StoryThis is a prototypical IEI movie.
Last edited by Exodus; 11-15-2017 at 11:57 PM.
Nice video @Olimpia. Thanks for reopening it for viewing.
An immediate Meryl Streep likeness (ESE) was transmitted from yourself in the video but I then began to wonder due to your elegant ways if you could possibly be a thinking type (E?STj) attempting to come across (either consciously or unconsciously) as more feminine...
Last edited by Hays; 11-15-2017 at 10:52 PM.
Not sure what people are prattling on about regarding Ni and conflict avoidance but I can say that if I were only typing you based on this video, I can see where Fe lead comes from, whether ESE or EIE.
Personally, I'd say you seem more EIE here, tbh. You seem to value Se (in the Jungian sense) more than ESE, imo.
Ha ha.
Worry not, I'll do it soon. I made two versions of the same video; so I'm debating which gets released. They are both long AF - I guess I'm just naturally long-winded. Yet I'm so calm and composed. I can only imagine how I get typed on here...lol
I've never known a basetype to vocalize their abstractions at first meeting. A sizeable amount of
I wouldn't say that making her video private after initially posting it counts as presenting oneself on a platter.You sort of present yourself, your mind, on a platter.
Ni is incredibly difficult to spot unless you're dealing with someone who thinks they have magic powers and can destroy the earth. lol Ni is a bit more than just time management skills, geez. That said, I get why some might assume ESE based solely on this video.I've never known a base
I wouldn't say that making her video private after initially posting it counts as presenting oneself on a platter.
It's not a particular view. The connective, associative abstract elements of Ni come straight from Augusta's work.Since when do IEIs show "subtle elements of aggression"?
You have a very particular view on IEI. Sounds like 8 fix, core 4, Sp/Sx or something; and not 1D Se.
Anyway, I know you are set on typing me as SEI. You also seem to have some kind of problem with me. It seems like you are constantly irritated by me, and that influences your typing. But oh well.
I think that you might be misunderstanding dimensionality, and this is probably at the heart of what has caused you to mistype so many IEI's as ESI's. Se is a perception function that, among other things, assesses the amount of force an individual has. It's not aggression in itself, a closer definition is the perception of aggression. In IEI's, this is valued. This doesn't mean they won't be aggressive, this means that when they attempt to be aggressive/assertive that they will typically miscalculate their use of force due to poor perception of how much is needed in a situation.
I'm writing this to say that, it is not contradictory for an IEI to engage in aggression, for recreation or otherwise, neither is it a particular quality of an Enneagram type or instinct. This has to do with the idea of force, that it is a valued function, and that it is dual seeking. It may not be in a type's main area of focus, but it is still function that they will try to sustain, engage in, and uphold. So when I say they show subtle elements of aggression, what I mean is that they will engage in the use of force, that due to this, there is an element of force in their personalities, though whether or not this is apparent from person to person is another matter.
Let's look at this another way. You zoom out just a little bit, you can see that all types of a quadra are not so dissimilar. Conceptually, think of 4 different tables. Each of these tables has a different set of ingredients. These are the valued functions. Now, assume you are going to make a dish. You go to one table, the Beta table. The dishes that result from this may look different, taste different, but you are using the same ingredients to make them.
Through this lens, we can see types, then, as an exaggeration of each other. You are just using a microscope on specific parts. You take Se of an IEI and put it in front of a fun-house mirror and an SLE is on the other end. You take the more Ni of the SLE and put that in a fun-house mirror and you get an IEI. Fun-house the Fe of the IEI and you get the EIE, and so on. So, for you to imply that 1D Se is disassociated with force (correct me if I'm wrong on that implication) due to dimensionality seems to be an error on more than one level of conception. I could have named you quite a few IEI's on here as examples of this, but it is not unlikely you would be typing them as something else (ESI).
And, FTR, I don't have anything against you. That may have sounded like a criticism earlier, but that wasn't my intention. I can appreciate people that put their thought processes up for analysis and try and substantiate their claims, regardless of whether or not I agree with what they are saying, which is how I see you. I have a more difficult time engaging in discourse with more nebulous thoughts, which again is something I more so associate with IEI. Having a person's thought readily available, is by my estimation, a good thing in regards to more more intellectual pursuits such as this. I just figured I would put my own 2 cents in since you were asking for opinions.
Hey, feel free to PM me with any opinions about my type
Ni is any irrational imagination not directed on now-moment traits of concrete and now seen objects. Time management is a small part of where Ni imagination works. Strong Ni people may believe in something what activates additional possibilities of our brains and bring something useful, indeed.
For example, telepathy effects. Like to "call" some human, to go walk on streets and to meet him there "accidentally".
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