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Thread: Creative subtype DCNH

  1. #81
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    I guess the next question is how you handle obstacles on the way to turn your ideas into reality.
    Do you work around these obstacles or push them away?

    The word "arrangements" in this context sounds to me, tbh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    I guess the next question is how you handle obstacles on the way to turn your ideas into reality.
    Do you work around these obstacles or push them away?

    The word "arrangements" in this context sounds to me, tbh.
    Well if they fail I'll try and look for an alternative way to do it but with less vigour, then i get moody, I shut down, feel pathetic. Go to sleep. Wait for a new day to start over.

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

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    C subs often seem a little confused, or shy, or sensitive or unbalanced. They are constantly swinging between "extroversion" and "introversion". Even in mild cases one can see this if looking carefully.

    Often they can have long monologues about their own stuff, that is hard for anybody to listen to.

    They often seem not present in the moment. But then when they do their own thing it's natural.

    Physically they can look "worn out", especially if older, but also young Cs can look that way. Not always though.

    Their free spirit is sometimes compensated by a very strict, normal attitude.

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    Not in the present seems to be common with normalizing and creative. Am I right?

    It just seems that I'm atrached to very different layers of reality with normalizing types. Actually I'm not really sure of my subtype. Maybe creative is off and underlying trait of my type which seems more plausible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    Not in the present seems to be common with normalizing and creative. Am I right?

    It just seems that I'm atrached to very different layers of reality with normalizing types. Actually I'm not really sure of my subtype. Maybe creative is off and underlying trait of my type which seems more plausible.

    C often seems to have to sort out own inner things when dealing with outer reality, but if they can do just their own thing, then they are very present. Normalizers seem present I think, especially if they are in a social situation where they can contribute.

    Its hard to generalize though. It depends probably on the ideal situation for the particular subtype.

    C-ILE can have strict logics in my experience, like they have to figure out exactly how things should be, and they can be unhappy if things are not right. Sometimes they can be controlling, at least the women. In this sense they can seem like normalizers superficially. But N is much more calm and stable.

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    My own form of attachment to reality seems to be bit predictive. Like imaging where things are going and basing actions on that. It is not really that I chase my own destiny or anything ego related.

    Well, it is to the point where people say that we do not know what you are up to.
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    @Shaebette just out of curiosity, what does being Delta NF mean to you? What traits or views, etc.? And what does beta NF mean to you that you see as very different (i.e. not typing as that)?


    Quote Originally Posted by at sirac son of sirac View Post
    If you're sure of your type, that's fine.

    I do think there's something wrong though when a person types as IEE on tests then decides they are EII. Is it possible? I suppose so. But, there's a big difference between E/I types (and J/P types) which is something for me i'd wonder about. I suppose it's called an anomaly.
    Possible when the person hasn't yet understood themselves or when they really are close to midrange on both E/I and J/P. Happened for me too.


    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    Not in the present seems to be common with normalizing and creative. Am I right?

    It just seems that I'm atrached to very different layers of reality with normalizing types. Actually I'm not really sure of my subtype. Maybe creative is off and underlying trait of my type which seems more plausible.
    I think C makes sense for you, you are definitely not N (or D). I also doubt H.

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    Yeah. I'm bad at following others. I rather do things my own way. This was present especially when I studied math. Sometimes it was much harder to follow and easier to generate solutions I saw best fitting.
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    About C-EII

    I think a good example is author Ulla-Lena Lundberg. She is a funny little lady. Writes good books too. Very "EII feeling" about her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaebette View Post
    It's with literally the same group of people, and my SO. People I have already bonded closely with. EIIs use Fe AFTER their Fi needs have been met right? Fe is still 3D.
    It's true though, I'm the one who's always thinking of and searching the internet for new fun places to go and then trying to make it work. I get impatient when I have an idea to do something or go to a new place so I prefer to do it immediately. This happens all the time and this is why my friends and/or SO are reluctant sometimes, im kind of forceful and impulsive with such plans.
    "EIIs use Fe AFTER their Fi needs have been met right?"

    Not exactly. Yes, they can use Fe as long as it doesn't conflict with Fi needs, but they will still be "lazy" about it and it won't be their primary motivation to have fun and create positive experiences for others. The kind of vocabulary and concepts people use of their own accord is very telling, I would need to see some positive evidence of Fi motivations.

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    Hi, time to invade this thread as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    "EIIs use Fe AFTER their Fi needs have been met right?"

    Not exactly. Yes, they can use Fe as long as it doesn't conflict with Fi needs, but they will still be "lazy" about it and it won't be their primary motivation to have fun and create positive experiences for others. The kind of vocabulary and concepts people use of their own accord is very telling, I would need to see some positive evidence of Fi motivations.
    My EII sister does not use Fe very often. Sometimes if she has a few drinks she will loosen up a bit. In general she is more reserved than me and I can be reserved in some situations so I don't look foolish. It's not that she can't use it. It just isn't her preference.

    An example is when we were all younger my ESE sister, my IEI brother and I would open her bedroom windows when we were in a goofy mood and sing badly and loudly so the neighbors would hear and think it was her. Instead of joining us she would get a bit irritated about it and tell us all to be quiet and shut the windows. Some Fe valuers think she is a fun spoiler but I think she is easily embarrassed by that kind of behavior. I can be embarrassed to perform in front of people but I don't take issue with it the way she does. I don't really care how other people have fun but she she feels more uncomfortable in high energy situations way more than the rest of my family. She is the only delta in my immediate family. I have a delta uncle that she really vibes with.

    My other brother and sister would always prefer riding in the car with me before they got their own cars and licenses because my EII sister is so reserved and doesn't like loud music or people who act silly in her car. She is always telling us to turn the music down and keep our eyes on the road. When she opens up and lets herself use Fe is is so cute and she seems happy but she has limited endurance for it. She participates but like you say she doesn't use it as her primary way to have fun and create positive experiences for others. I think she uses Ne more for that. As children she was not really one to use facial expressions on our LSI mom to get her way either. The rest of us have done that and still do.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    I mean as far as ethical intuitive introverts go IEI is the more outgoing with EII being the quasi which basically has the same strengths and weaknesses but takes it in the completely different direction. these types are inherently less aggressive and more agreeable and EII is on the far side of that. if EII is at one end of the entire socion there can be no room for something more extreme, because it is the extremity by definition. in this sense if you conceive of the full range of personality and someone falls somewhere in the middle its unlikely they're a peripheral type like EII. EII is keenly aware of what an outsider they are. although they probably have spent a lot of time coming to terms with it I don't think they exactly seek it out like a flag to wave. my immediate suspicion when someone wants to be EII is they are trying to compensate by running to the margins for feelings of inadequate uniqueness, because society has told recent generations the label is good (although they punish the reality), C subtype sort of compounds the issue but EII C would by definition be the generator of ethical ideas. how often do you see that? that people don't fully comprehend how rare it is goes to show they can't tell the difference between gossip (which usually centers around things ultimately) and the wellbeing of souls... if we use C to explode EII into its opposite its like saying Fe as a Fi way of life. its just Fe; in the same way EII C is just some version of a social type if there is no actual layer. in other words, for a type to be contradictory, i.e.: sophisticated, one must demonstrate why it can't be explained by simply being a different type without recourse to subtype that explains just as much if not more with less. if that is the case there is no need for a Ptolemaic contortion. enneagram suffers from the same abuse. on the other hand, presuming to know people better than they know themselves is a bad move. but its not so much them as it is the rules of the system and as much as I like breaking rules there needs to be a rationality underlying it that justifies doing so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaebette View Post
    Well if they fail I'll try and look for an alternative way to do it but with less vigour, then i get moody, I shut down, feel pathetic. Go to sleep. Wait for a new day to start over.
    The -creative and -PoLR way to handle such situations — Try an other method or approach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    My EII sister does not use Fe very often. Sometimes if she has a few drinks she will loosen up a bit. In general she is more reserved than me and I can be reserved in some situations so I don't look foolish. It's not that she can't use it. It just isn't her preference.

    An example is when we were all younger my ESE sister, my IEI brother and I would open her bedroom windows when we were in a goofy mood and sing badly and loudly so the neighbors would hear and think it was her. Instead of joining us she would get a bit irritated about it and tell us all to be quiet and shut the windows. Some Fe valuers think she is a fun spoiler but I think she is easily embarrassed by that kind of behavior. I can be embarrassed to perform in front of people but I don't take issue with it the way she does. I don't really care how other people have fun but she she feels more uncomfortable in high energy situations way more than the rest of my family. She is the only delta in my immediate family. I have a delta uncle that she really vibes with.

    My other brother and sister would always prefer riding in the car with me before they got their own cars and licenses because my EII sister is so reserved and doesn't like loud music or people who act silly in her car. She is always telling us to turn the music down and keep our eyes on the road. When she opens up and lets herself use Fe is is so cute and she seems happy but she has limited endurance for it. She participates but like you say she doesn't use it as her primary way to have fun and create positive experiences for others. I think she uses Ne more for that. As children she was not really one to use facial expressions on our LSI mom to get her way either. The rest of us have done that and still do.
    Yeah that's more like characteristic Fi/Si-valuing introvert behavior (aka the exact opposite).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    My EII sister does not use Fe very often. Sometimes if she has a few drinks she will loosen up a bit. In general she is more reserved than me and I can be reserved in some situations so I don't look foolish. It's not that she can't use it. It just isn't her preference.

    An example is when we were all younger my ESE sister, my IEI brother and I would open her bedroom windows when we were in a goofy mood and sing badly and loudly so the neighbors would hear and think it was her. Instead of joining us she would get a bit irritated about it and tell us all to be quiet and shut the windows. Some Fe valuers think she is a fun spoiler but I think she is easily embarrassed by that kind of behavior. I can be embarrassed to perform in front of people but I don't take issue with it the way she does. I don't really care how other people have fun but she she feels more uncomfortable in high energy situations way more than the rest of my family. She is the only delta in my immediate family. I have a delta uncle that she really vibes with.

    My other brother and sister would always prefer riding in the car with me before they got their own cars and licenses because my EII sister is so reserved and doesn't like loud music or people who act silly in her car. She is always telling us to turn the music down and keep our eyes on the road. When she opens up and lets herself use Fe is is so cute and she seems happy but she has limited endurance for it. She participates but like you say she doesn't use it as her primary way to have fun and create positive experiences for others. I think she uses Ne more for that. As children she was not really one to use facial expressions on our LSI mom to get her way either. The rest of us have done that and still do.
    Same for my EII sister. Fi sub btw but the Ne subs aren't all that different with this.

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    So...
    The creative starts to coordinate and takes role of a normalizer type by monitoring developments when he/she has generated his/her own creation.
    The harmonizer starts to take a leading position of a dominant type when is put into position when situation calls for it.

    I think I'm more a type than normalizing type in those situations.

    I think a normalizer who takes up role of a harmonizer looks bit funny. I suppose it always looks bit funny when changing roles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    @Shaebette just out of curiosity, what does being Delta NF mean to you? What traits or views, etc.? And what does beta NF mean to you that you see as very different (i.e. not typing as that)?




    Possible when the person hasn't yet understood themselves or when they really are close to midrange on both E/I and J/P. Happened for me too.




    I think C makes sense for you, you are definitely not N (or D). I also doubt H.
    Well i obviously define them by the functions they value. So Delta NF would primarily be Ne and Fi, and Beta NF would be Fe and Ni, but I mostly identify them by their Se-seeking or Se-valuing (what they talk about, what they see in others etc). I'm not Beta NF, that I'm sure of.

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaebette View Post
    Well i obviously define them by the functions they value. So Delta NF would primarily be Ne and Fi, and Beta NF would be Fe and Ni, but I mostly identify them by their Se-seeking or Se-valuing (what they talk about, what they see in others etc). I'm not Beta NF, that I'm sure of.
    Can you let go of socionics lingo and use your own words/everyday words to describe the traits/views/etc?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Myst View Post
    Can you let go of socionics lingo and use your own words/everyday words to describe the traits/views/etc?
    Honestly I don't feel like doing so Can we end the whole personality questioning here?

    C-EII-INFj 4w3 Sx/sp 479

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaebette View Post
    Honestly I don't feel like doing so Can we end the whole personality questioning here?
    Sure, no worries, I was just curious, not questioning.

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    ESI Creative Subtype - Ronaldo il fenomeno:

    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Creative LIE , Maybe Sx/So


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    being a creative subtype can be a cool combination. we have accentuated Fe, Se and Ne, and two of these functions are 1 dimensional for me in Model A. makes me more balanced in some situations I think. don't have any problems entertaining people or applying pressure when needed, but I very rarely do it. I mostly just focus on Ne and Ni.

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    Socionics is a spook ashlesha's Avatar
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    I knew Pe was enhanced, but why the random 0.5 Je?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    C subs often seem a little confused, or shy, or sensitive or unbalanced. They are constantly swinging between "extroversion" and "introversion". Even in mild cases one can see this if looking carefully.

    Often they can have long monologues about their own stuff, that is hard for anybody to listen to.

    They often seem not present in the moment. But then when they do their own thing it's natural.

    Physically they can look "worn out", especially if older, but also young Cs can look that way. Not always though.

    Their free spirit is sometimes compensated by a very strict, normal attitude.
    I felt this. I'm still on the fence between C and H. I was wondering if there are any good examples of female ILIs of each. I have a feeling female examples might be very different from male examples here.
    Everything happens for a reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumdumho View Post
    I felt this. I'm still on the fence between C and H. I was wondering if there are any good examples of female ILIs of each. I have a feeling female examples might be very different from male examples here.
    You could look if you care about your surroundings or are mostly oblivious.
    Harmonizing really want everybody to be happy and feel a lot with the people around and dear to them. They don't want to tip on anyones toes and estimate people on how ethical they behave.

    Creatives are more eccentric than detached and usually don't realize immediately when they offended someone, they are more initiative taking and should be further away from the classical ILI due to stronger Se and Ne while harmonizing ILI should be very much the typical detached and somewhat passive intellectual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Itsme View Post
    You could look if you care about your surroundings or are mostly oblivious.
    Harmonizing really want everybody to be happy and feel a lot with the people around and dear to them. They don't want to tip on anyones toes and estimate people on how ethical they behave.

    Creatives are more eccentric than detached and usually don't realize immediately when they offended someone, they are more initiative taking and should be further away from the classical ILI due to stronger Se and Ne while harmonizing ILI should be very much the typical detached and somewhat passive intellectual.
    I think I definitely present aspects of both, and there are also things about both that dont really fit. But overall C fits better, for better or worse (probably not better). Thank you for explaining a little more, this stuff is still really new to me.
    Everything happens for a reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumdumho View Post
    I think I definitely present aspects of both, and there are also things about both that dont really fit. But overall C fits better, for better or worse (probably not better). Thank you for explaining a little more, this stuff is still really new to me.
    You're welcome, i don't know how new you are with DCNH, a good source to get a feeling for your subtype are those portraits imo https://www.the16types.info/vbulleti...-(translation)

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    What's the purpose of SEI? Tallmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sumdumho View Post
    I felt this. I'm still on the fence between C and H. I was wondering if there are any good examples of female ILIs of each. I have a feeling female examples might be very different from male examples here.
    But why do you think you are either H or C? Even those subtypes are very different. Maybe you are N. That's common.

    I don't know any C-ILI females. I have a feeling that Queen Silvia of Sweden might be H-ILI. Harmonizing is obvious.

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    typical ILI-H is academic loner.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ashlesha View Post
    I knew Pe was enhanced, but why the random 0.5 Je?
    I have to admit I'm feeling more dubious than curious (you know how much my Ti ass loves socionics math), but... really? Also C is the primary type for me among ppl who care about such things, and accentuated Pe I understand, but Fe? Would take self eval

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallmo View Post
    But why do you think you are either H or C? Even those subtypes are very different. Maybe you are N. That's common.

    I don't know any C-ILI females. I have a feeling that Queen Silvia of Sweden might be H-ILI. Harmonizing is obvious.
    Neither normalizing or dominant fit as per descriptions, both harmonizing and creative fit somewhat but also have elements that dont. But when Itsme said that ILI C exhibits more Se and Ne that made me more certain, I've thought I was SLE, ILE and LII in the past. Also being a Te subtype correlates more to Creative since it's a second order function, no?
    Everything happens for a reason.

  34. #114
    a two horned unicorn renegade Heretic 007's Avatar
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    ILI creative is described by Gulenko as a person who supports typical talkshow hosts, SEEs, on the couch as a sidekick .
    Measuring you right now

    Winning is for losers

  35. #115
    lkdhf qkb's Avatar
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    My parents have a neighbour who is C-ILI-Te. He's like super smart, has a phD in materials chemistry that would give him nice opportunities, but he doesn't really look for anything, he's more like waiting for a job to fall into his lap. Instead of searching for a "normal job" he spends his time playing aviation video games and selling his characters/profiles to rich kids or on fields searching for WWI/II memorabilia with his metal detector. Sometimes he would show me his collection, it's crazy all the stuff he found. I guess he likes the feeling of going back in time, he actually calls his collection the "time capsule".
    Other than that he would go to the shooting range or tinker with his DIY virtual reality set. I don't think he ever had a girlfriend and he really had trouble to take an interest in other people's lives. I also could sense that he felt lonely.
    @Sumdumho, maybe this description can help you get an idea of the excentricity of the C subtype
    Jg djwjmjabujpo jt up tvswjwf, xf nvtu dvmujwbuf uif tdjfodf pg ivnbo sfmbujpotijqt - uif bcjmjuz pg bmm qfpqmft, pg bmm ljoet, up mjwf uphfuifs, jo uif tbnf xpsme bu qfbdf.
    Gsbolmjo E. Spptfwfmu

  36. #116
    Sumdumho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    My parents have a neighbour who is C-ILI-Te. He's like super smart, has a phD in materials chemistry that would give him nice opportunities, but he doesn't really look for anything, he's more like waiting for a job to fall into his lap. Instead of searching for a "normal job" he spends his time playing aviation video games and selling his characters/profiles to rich kids or on fields searching for WWI/II memorabilia with his metal detector. Sometimes he would show me his collection, it's crazy all the stuff he found. I guess he likes the feeling of going back in time, he actually calls his collection the "time capsule".
    Other than that he would go to the shooting range or tinker with his DIY virtual reality set. I don't think he ever had a girlfriend and he really had trouble to take an interest in other people's lives. I also could sense that he felt lonely.
    @Sumdumho, maybe this description can help you get an idea of the excentricity of the C subtype
    A lot of this fits, just to a less severe degree in my case. I think for whatever reason I'm just a slightly more well socially adjusted version of this. My field of interest is more nutrition, genetics, fitness but I only take opportunities as I need them to have a lifestyle that allows me to do what I want, which is to study nutrition and get stronger. Maybe being female has something to do with my ability to fit in a bit better, I've never had trouble with relationships but I also definitely dont put myself out there, I never initiate.

    I think in mbti I am IxTP and wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other ILI-C types are as well.
    Everything happens for a reason.

  37. #117
    lkdhf qkb's Avatar
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    @Sumdumho, I have yet to encounter an creative Te-XLI that I could call "socially adjusted", the word I would use to describe them is ... "socially unconscious/mad engineers".Also, I have trouble imagining a creative ILI being interested in nutrition(that sounds super Si). Actually your writing style(seems VS) + lifestyle makes me think more of a LIE. They often use knowledge of Si(diets, fitness, etc...) as a springboard to access Se. But that's just a hunch, do with it what you want
    Jg djwjmjabujpo jt up tvswjwf, xf nvtu dvmujwbuf uif tdjfodf pg ivnbo sfmbujpotijqt - uif bcjmjuz pg bmm qfpqmft, pg bmm ljoet, up mjwf uphfuifs, jo uif tbnf xpsme bu qfbdf.
    Gsbolmjo E. Spptfwfmu

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