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Thread: The initial stage of dualization for SLI-IEE (INTp-ENFp) by Stratiyevskaya

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    Default The initial stage of dualization for SLI-IEE (INTp-ENFp) by Stratiyevskaya

    I was reading this description of SLI-IEE duality by Stratiyevskaya and this part (about the initial stage of dualization) grabbed my attention.


    - It seems like the fourth quadra has the most stable duality. - The reader notices. - Looks like here partners dualize easily and successfully ...
    - This is one thing that cannot be said about the irrational dyad of 4th quadra. Once dualized, they actually form a very prosperous and harmonious couple. But the process of dualization in this pair is perhaps the most difficult and lengthy one, in part because both partners in this pair are two different kinds of "Don Juan": one - in the intuitive ethical interpretation, and other other - in the sensory logical one.
    The model of dualization here builds in such a way that partners not only eventually recognize that they are worthy of each other, but also have time to get "locked onto" each other, such that they don't feel the need to search for further alternatives. (And one must agree that for a "Don Juan" this is very important: this is what brings him a sense of peace, stability, and satisfaction with what he has.)
    Of course, such smooth and complimentary dualization is achieved only over a long period of time, which is required for these partners to get to know each other better.
    - So this dyad doesn't dualize "at first sight"?
    - No. In addition, dualization here may progress very slowly, in small steps. And even the most active and the most romantic stage of dualization (their "honeymoon") may happen only years after they first met each other.


    What do you guys think of it? And was it accurate from your experiences?


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    I agree with this. I'm interested in grandchildren, and my SLI son seems to be completely indifferent to women. He likes them, but not enough to respond to them.

    A year or two ago, I told him that he should look for a woman like his IEE aunt. He said, "No way, Dad. She's completely scattered." I told him that she may have problems, but women of her type are the best that he's going to find. He's going to discover that every other type is worse.

    The last time I saw them together, they were happily and efficiently working together like clockwork, putting a roof on a building. Super productive, super integrated work styles. It is amazing to see.

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    I know this two SLI and IEE friends, Once the SLI told me that the IEE is not "the one". At that time they looked like very good friends, I didn't really understand that because anyone who looked at them would think they complement each other but after like 2 years of friendship, they started fighting a lot and I still have no idea why that happened, now it seems like the IEE wants to end it (I feel like he won't) but the SLI is still holding onto it, probably factors other than socionics interfered here but I also can't help but agree on what Startiyevska had written. It really seems the longest and the most difficult one.

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    Its important to consider that quasi identicals LSI/SLI are very similar and can be confused. Same with EIE/IEE.

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    I have doubts from time to time (especially the SLI being LSI) but I've known them well and most of what that was written about their types is spot on. Sometimes I think it's because of the subtypes.
    I'm really looking forward to hear the other's experiences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy View Post
    I was reading this description of SLI-IEE duality by Stratiyevskaya and this part (about the initial stage of dualization) grabbed my attention.


    - It seems like the fourth quadra has the most stable duality. - The reader notices. - Looks like here partners dualize easily and successfully ...
    - This is one thing that cannot be said about the irrational dyad of 4th quadra. Once dualized, they actually form a very prosperous and harmonious couple. But the process of dualization in this pair is perhaps the most difficult and lengthy one, in part because both partners in this pair are two different kinds of "Don Juan": one - in the intuitive ethical interpretation, and other other - in the sensory logical one.
    The model of dualization here builds in such a way that partners not only eventually recognize that they are worthy of each other, but also have time to get "locked onto" each other, such that they don't feel the need to search for further alternatives. (And one must agree that for a "Don Juan" this is very important: this is what brings him a sense of peace, stability, and satisfaction with what he has.)
    Of course, such smooth and complimentary dualization is achieved only over a long period of time, which is required for these partners to get to know each other better.
    - So this dyad doesn't dualize "at first sight"?
    - No. In addition, dualization here may progress very slowly, in small steps. And even the most active and the most romantic stage of dualization (their "honeymoon") may happen only years after they first met each other.


    What do you guys think of it? And was it accurate from your experiences?

    I believe this is accurate.

    In some ways I feel super lucky to have ended up with my husband... for a lot of reasons, but lucky when I think of socionics bc we are so different, and if I hadn't known about socionics we wouldn't be together right now bc I wouldn't have sought him out and wouldn't have had the patience for some of the things that are apparently characteristic in the beginning of SLI-IEE relations.

    I agree that dualization happens in steps, but I think it sometimes seems to go quickly and other times slowly. I also think it's sometimes like you go two or three steps forward, then one step back before moving forward again... and those are the times (right before, during, and right after those steps back) when you make the most progress in your relationship. In fact, we've been together 3.5 years (married 2.5) and it still seems that way. I mean, I imagine any couple in a healthy relationship keeps growing closer, but w my husband who is my dual it feels... different than any relationship I've previously had. The dualization seems to go on, for years.
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    Does anybody know ways or strtegies that can be employed to help IEE-SLI dualization progress, or continue and not fall apart? This is something that really interests me.

    Also, why exactly would SLI-IEE dualization be something so vulnerable and difficult to achieve?

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    I guess the IEE needs to be patient and give the SLI time, while the SLI should be more open and talk about what's on his/her mind. But this is only my understanding of the dynamics between this dual pair (the first stage), so I can be wrong.

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    the article sounds like a battle between a covert narcissist and an overt narcissist
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    strat has a way with words

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    Quote Originally Posted by Connorrrrr View Post
    Does anybody know ways or strtegies that can be employed to help IEE-SLI dualization progress, or continue and not fall apart? This is something that really interests me.

    Also, why exactly would SLI-IEE dualization be something so vulnerable and difficult to achieve?
    I'll be completely honest. I met my dual SLI husband on Match.com. We wrote emails to each other several times back and forth before we met, and this gave us time to discuss our values and morals. We were able to bypass many of the introductory stages of getting to know someone, and by the time we met, I knew that his values and morals aligned with mine. That made me more open to then watching and learning to see if his behavior and lifestyle were true to them.

    Had we we met in person, I often wonder if we ever would have been together. My initial impressions of him might have been shortsighted. He doesn't speak his mind, and I dare say he can come across as unapproachable and arrogant, but it would have been a terrible overlook of what was truly going on between his mind and heart. He just doesn't always voice what's going on, nor does he always give nonverbal cues that help provide insight.

    My husband also told me that he'd often watch a girl for years before ever making an initiative to ask her out. He admitted he had asked a girl for her number two times in his life- once being me. Although I'm not even sure I'd count that.

    From personal experience, I think breaking through initial layers of who a person is and getting to the core values is critical to advance this relationship. The SLI needs to know the IEE is a safe person to confide in, but that takes time. The IEE needs to know what the SLI stands for before moving on to another's prospect, and that also takes time.

    But I can see how this can be one of the most harmonious duals. We rarely fight. There's such a sense of being on each other's team, that one steps up naturally when the other is in need of help. What's unspoken between us is understood as if we could read each other's minds. My sense of knowing my husband is almost uncanny. I know his routines, interests, and what's at his heart. I see where his faults or weaknesses are, and grace is easily applied as I help meet where he is lacking (and vice versa). But this too has taken time.

    IEEs like to make all experiences "big" and "memorable", and part of the progress of this relationship is understanding that this strength is not found in the SLI. So early in the relationship when expectations are high and unmet, it can lead to conflict. And yet somehow, I've found both of us to grow a bit in each other's strengths.

    Example: I always wanted a big and memorable Valentine's Day. That was never important to him, and each year it led to conflict. Years down the road, I started to find contentment in the daily strengths and joys of our marriage, instead of waiting for Valentine's Day to see some crazy display of affection. And yet this past Christmas Eve, my husband carried a couch downstairs in front of the wood burning stove, brought a table, a rug, and two glasses of wine. He even put on some Christmas music, and we spent Christmas Eve together in front of the fire with our dog. This is what I had been expecting for Valentine's Day all along. And what I thought him to be incapable of, he actually accomplished extremely well after growing with me in our marriage.

    With time, our this relationship becomes stronger.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    I'll be completely honest. I met my dual SLI husband on Match.com. We wrote emails to each other several times back and forth before we met, and this gave us time to discuss our values and morals. We were able to bypass many of the introductory stages of getting to know someone, and by the time we met, I knew that his values and morals aligned with mine. That made me more open to then watching and learning to see if his behavior and lifestyle were true to them.

    Had we we met in person, I often wonder if we ever would have been together. My initial impressions of him might have been shortsighted. He doesn't speak his mind, and I dare say he can come across as unapproachable and arrogant, but it would have been a terrible overlook of what was truly going on between his mind and heart. He just doesn't always voice what's going on, nor does he always give nonverbal cues that help provide insight.

    My husband also told me that he'd often watch a girl for years before ever making an initiative to ask her out. He admitted he had asked a girl for her number two times in his life- once being me. Although I'm not even sure I'd count that.

    From personal experience, I think breaking through initial layers of who a person is and getting to the core values is critical to advance this relationship. The SLI needs to know the IEE is a safe person to confide in, but that takes time. The IEE needs to know what the SLI stands for before moving on to another's prospect, and that also takes time.

    But I can see how this can be one of the most harmonious duals. We rarely fight. There's such a sense of being on each other's team, that one steps up naturally when the other is in need of help. What's unspoken between us is understood as if we could read each other's minds. My sense of knowing my husband is almost uncanny. I know his routines, interests, and what's at his heart. I see where his faults or weaknesses are, and grace is easily applied as I help meet where he is lacking (and vice versa). But this too has taken time.

    IEEs like to make all experiences "big" and "memorable", and part of the progress of this relationship is understanding that this strength is not found in the SLI. So early in the relationship when expectations are high and unmet, it can lead to conflict. And yet somehow, I've found both of us to grow a bit in each other's strengths.

    Example: I always wanted a big and memorable Valentine's Day. That was never important to him, and each year it led to conflict. Years down the road, I started to find contentment in the daily strengths and joys of our marriage, instead of waiting for Valentine's Day to see some crazy display of affection. And yet this past Christmas Eve, my husband carried a couch downstairs in front of the wood burning stove, brought a table, a rug, and two glasses of wine. He even put on some Christmas music, and we spent Christmas Eve together in front of the fire with our dog. This is what I had been expecting for Valentine's Day all along. And what I thought him to be incapable of, he actually accomplished extremely well after growing with me in our marriage.

    With time, our this relationship becomes stronger.
    You nailed it, especially on the high expectations part. Your SLI seems exactly like this SLI I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    I'll be completely honest. I met my dual SLI husband on Match.com. We wrote emails to each other several times back and forth before we met, and this gave us time to discuss our values and morals. We were able to bypass many of the introductory stages of getting to know someone, and by the time we met, I knew that his values and morals aligned with mine. That made me more open to then watching and learning to see if his behavior and lifestyle were true to them.

    Had we we met in person, I often wonder if we ever would have been together. My initial impressions of him might have been shortsighted. He doesn't speak his mind, and I dare say he can come across as unapproachable and arrogant, but it would have been a terrible overlook of what was truly going on between his mind and heart. He just doesn't always voice what's going on, nor does he always give nonverbal cues that help provide insight.

    My husband also told me that he'd often watch a girl for years before ever making an initiative to ask her out. He admitted he had asked a girl for her number two times in his life- once being me. Although I'm not even sure I'd count that.

    From personal experience, I think breaking through initial layers of who a person is and getting to the core values is critical to advance this relationship. The SLI needs to know the IEE is a safe person to confide in, but that takes time. The IEE needs to know what the SLI stands for before moving on to another's prospect, and that also takes time.

    But I can see how this can be one of the most harmonious duals. We rarely fight. There's such a sense of being on each other's team, that one steps up naturally when the other is in need of help. What's unspoken between us is understood as if we could read each other's minds. My sense of knowing my husband is almost uncanny. I know his routines, interests, and what's at his heart. I see where his faults or weaknesses are, and grace is easily applied as I help meet where he is lacking (and vice versa). But this too has taken time.

    IEEs like to make all experiences "big" and "memorable", and part of the progress of this relationship is understanding that this strength is not found in the SLI. So early in the relationship when expectations are high and unmet, it can lead to conflict. And yet somehow, I've found both of us to grow a bit in each other's strengths.

    Example: I always wanted a big and memorable Valentine's Day. That was never important to him, and each year it led to conflict. Years down the road, I started to find contentment in the daily strengths and joys of our marriage, instead of waiting for Valentine's Day to see some crazy display of affection. And yet this past Christmas Eve, my husband carried a couch downstairs in front of the wood burning stove, brought a table, a rug, and two glasses of wine. He even put on some Christmas music, and we spent Christmas Eve together in front of the fire with our dog. This is what I had been expecting for Valentine's Day all along. And what I thought him to be incapable of, he actually accomplished extremely well after growing with me in our marriage.

    With time, our this relationship becomes stronger.
    I second all of this, and it is true for my husband and me (right down to how we met, on Match.com!) to such an extent that it is almost freaky.

    My husband seems to be a lot like yours, and I seem to be very much like you.


    On the topic of this thread:

    I commented a while ago that I wanted to go to a nice dinner so we could have what felt like a real date, and he said we could but we kept not getting around to it... and I was starting to get impatient about it and told him so. He didn't really say much, but a short time later he asked if I would hold off on going grocery shopping so we could make it a family tradition to go every Friday (also w our little girl). I said okay but didn't get it... and then seemingly out of the blue he sent me a text message while he was at work saying that he wanted to go grocery shopping w me because it would be a family tradition where we did an ordinary everyday thing but got to spend time together and make happy little noncontrived (that wasn't his word, but it's what he was getting at) memories together. Of course I swooned bc I'm an IEE and we love that stuff. He doesn't say sweet things super often, but I thought that was really nice

    He likes to say that "life isn't like in the movies," so e.g. if I drop him off at the airport for a week-long trip or something he doesn't make a big deal about it and kind of only gives me a normal kiss goodbye, and when I pick him up there's no dramatic greeting but he will give me a big hug and kiss bc he knows it matters to me. I think that part of dualization bt IEE-SLI pair involves the IEE letting go of their hopes for big dramatic displays of affection and learning how special the everyday moments can be, and the SLI learning to express their love in more open ways bc the IEE values it and makes them feel comfortable doing so.

    We really are like our duals turned inside-out, so it works.

    Sorry if this is rambly
    "In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is." - Yogi Berra

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    I think I might be an ENFp, and I dated a guy who was an ISTp. It was by far my most "on fire" and soothing relationship in terms of structure and routine, but not without problems.
    The end was brutal though. We lasted 1 1/2 years.
    I liked that he was real. He was a 583 (I think), so very direct and independent, but maybe too detached from feely stuff for me.
    It was lonely at times, and overall unhealthy for other reasons.
    Regardless, he is the bar I now use to gauge my relationships (not a very productive strategy).

    I'd try again with an ISTp, maybe.

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    I don't know. I have an SLI best friend whom I get along real well with. I see her as kind of helpless in many social things though and it makes me angry when she doesn't get what I tell her. But so far she's my favourite person, she's strong and awesome. I can't tell much about "couple" stuff because she's like, super lesbian, loves pussy as much as I do. Anyway, we got along real fucking well at first, so I don't get that "U will hate ur dual at first uwu" bullshit people love spreading, I hate everyone the same way. People suck.

    But tbh, I had tried with an SLI before, relationship wise, it was cool but sucked at times because we were both unhealthy and immature as fuck. But I find SLI's the most entertaining (and hot). I'd say that, "stages of dualization" are bullshit, as it's pretty much an individual thing.

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    And, I know this is old but, it's ISTp....... INTp's are like, even more autistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron Something View Post
    And, I know this is old but, it's ISTp....... INTp's are like, even more autistic.
    stfu I'm neurotypical aka normal. drag your ass out there and find an SLI already.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    stfu I'm neurotypical aka normal. drag your ass out there and find an SLI already.
    Aw, I love ILI's too, though.

    Hahahaha, i'm trying to find one. By not looking for one. That's how you do it. Tho, they say SLI's hide under rocks.

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    Today I ran into a cute little twenty-something IEE female with fantastic purple hair at the Vegan restaurant that I visit. She was the cashier and was just cute as hell. Her hair was actually a combination of purple and silver and looked amazingly better than that sounds. She also had Cleopatra eye-liner on. Lol. This sounds crazy and infantile but she made it look sophisticated and good.

    The problem: I want grandchildren and my SLI son is impervious to women. He's not gay, he's just a fucking inert SLI male. Picture Clint Eastwood as the Man With No Name, but without the scowl. He's taller than me and thin and completely inert when it comes to other people (all gifts from his mother).

    The question: How do I get these two to meet? My son uses COVID as an excuse to do his Fe-PoLR thing and stay out of restaurants. He's never going to find a woman on his own because he's either hiding behind his phone or he's driving alone to some photography shoot 90% of the time.

    This woman is high-quality and would make a great daughter-in-law. I'm pretty sure that she'd improve his life, too, if she could get his attention. How do I get them to meet?

    @Tommy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Today I ran into a cute little twenty-something IEE female with fantastic purple hair at the Vegan restaurant that I visit. She was the cashier and was just cute as hell. Her hair was actually a combination of purple and silver and looked amazingly better than that sounds. She also had Cleopatra eye-liner on. Lol. This sounds crazy and infantile but she made it look sophisticated and good.

    The problem: I want grandchildren and my SLI son is impervious to women. He's not gay, he's just a fucking inert SLI male. Picture Clint Eastwood as the Man With No Name, but without the scowl. He's taller than me and thin and completely inert when it comes to other people (all gifts from his mother).

    The question: How do I get these two to meet? My son uses COVID as an excuse to do his Fe-PoLR thing and stay out of restaurants. He's never going to find a woman on his own because he's either hiding behind his phone or he's driving alone to some photography shoot 90% of the time.

    This woman is high-quality and would make a great daughter-in-law. I'm pretty sure that she'd improve his life, too, if she could get his attention. How do I get them to meet?

    @Tommy?
    How about if you pay for dinner and in exchange he goes to pick it up? (See if you can figure out what nights she works).

    Adam, are you VEGAN??
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


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    Quote Originally Posted by Eliza Thomason View Post
    How about if you pay for dinner and in exchange he goes to pick it up? (See if you can figure out what nights she works).

    Adam, are you VEGAN??
    Excellent idea, Eliza. I'll do that. Thank you.

    I'm not Vegan. I think my parents were from Mars and the family is from Alpha Eridani, originally.

    Lol. I'm an intentional vegetarian. I don't rise to the Vegan definition, unfortunately.

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    @Adam Strange, hopefully you will get something he really likes and you can get it regularly! Every Wed. night...

    Oh dear, vegetarianism... I will bring up that in another thread!
    Last edited by Eliza Thomason; 10-25-2020 at 09:15 PM.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    Today I ran into a cute little twenty-something IEE female with fantastic purple hair at the Vegan restaurant that I visit. She was the cashier and was just cute as hell. Her hair was actually a combination of purple and silver and looked amazingly better than that sounds. She also had Cleopatra eye-liner on. Lol. This sounds crazy and infantile but she made it look sophisticated and good.

    The problem: I want grandchildren and my SLI son is impervious to women. He's not gay, he's just a fucking inert SLI male. Picture Clint Eastwood as the Man With No Name, but without the scowl. He's taller than me and thin and completely inert when it comes to other people (all gifts from his mother).

    The question: How do I get these two to meet? My son uses COVID as an excuse to do his Fe-PoLR thing and stay out of restaurants. He's never going to find a woman on his own because he's either hiding behind his phone or he's driving alone to some photography shoot 90% of the time.

    This woman is high-quality and would make a great daughter-in-law. I'm pretty sure that she'd improve his life, too, if she could get his attention. How do I get them to meet?

    @Tommy?
    Eliza's idea seems good. Also my hub called immediately my attention and we started dating just two weeks after we met. Have you asked to your son his plans about the future or if he thinks about sharing his life with a gf or wife? How old is he and what's his subtype and dcnh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommy View Post
    Eliza's idea seems good. Also my hub called immediately my attention and we started dating just two weeks after we met. Have you asked to your son his plans about the future or if he thinks about sharing his life with a gf or wife? How old is he and what's his subtype and dcnh?
    @Tommy, my SLI son's plans for the future are to keep living with his mother, I suppose. Although since she's now living with her new IEE BF, that might get awkward. Or not, IDK. He's also pretty selfish about sharing anything he has. When he went to college, I wanted him to stay in a dorm and have roommates and he wanted to live at home because he hates sharing anything.
    Honestly, he might be single forever.

    He's a Te-subtype. His DCNH type corresponds to the D definition in Gulenko's book. He and the woman in the Vegan restaurant seem similar in age. My son seems to be older than he is, even though his social accomplishments have been retarded by his mother's selfish influence in trying to keep him close to her all the time.

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    спит Kiana's Avatar
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    Lol why are you pushing your son onto someone he may not like? Just because he’s impervious to chicks doesn’t mean you should be overbearing and interfere by picking out random, infantile chicks for him. Talk about suffocating. SLIs for the record are very capable of picking out who like and don’t want anyone to meddle in their choices.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Tommy, my SLI son's plans for the future are to keep living with his mother, I suppose. Although since she's now living with her new IEE BF, that might get awkward. Or not, IDK. He's also pretty selfish about sharing anything he has. When he went to college, I wanted him to stay in a dorm and have roommates and he wanted to live at home because he hates sharing anything.
    Honestly, he might be single forever.

    He's a Te-subtype. His DCNH type corresponds to the D definition in Gulenko's book. He and the woman in the Vegan restaurant seem similar in age. My son seems to be older than he is, even though his social accomplishments have been retarded by his mother's selfish influence in trying to keep him close to her all the time.
    I think you should ask him instead of assuming his plans. Mb he's just comfortable at the moment or even he actually cares about his mother since you 2 are divorced he wants to be around for her. It's not the first time I've seen SLIs doing something like that (I've done the same more than once).
    Usually caregivers are motivated by a feelings of aid, protection and support. So instead of assuming I'd suggest to ask.
    Staying in a dorm and sharing space with strangers is also unappealing to me. Time alone is sacred for SLIs.
    That doesnt mean we can't fall in love or feel motivated to share with a loved one.

    If he's Te and D, he shouldn't have problems for talking to a girl that he really likes. Mb he just havent met someone who makes him feel motivated enough. You can't expect an Introvertid to act like an extrovert and feel motivated just for the mere act of interacting or knowing someone new. E types usually try to met chicks but Introverted guys not always. I'm uninterested in most men or making lots of Friends. I prefer to keep few deep friendships. Also I'm bored by the first stages of meeting ppl. I feel much more enjoyement when meeting an old good friend than meeting someone new. The same with love. Theres a long process for getting to know a love interest and getting to feel comfortable enough with him/her.
    Last edited by Tommy; 10-25-2020 at 10:13 PM.

  27. #27
    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Strange View Post
    @Tommy, my SLI son's plans for the future are to keep living with his mother, I suppose. Although since she's now living with her new IEE BF, that might get awkward. Or not, IDK. He's also pretty selfish about sharing anything he has. When he went to college, I wanted him to stay in a dorm and have roommates and he wanted to live at home because he hates sharing anything.
    Honestly, he might be single forever.

    He's a Te-subtype. His DCNH type corresponds to the D definition in Gulenko's book. He and the woman in the Vegan restaurant seem similar in age. My son seems to be older than he is, even though his social accomplishments have been retarded by his mother's selfish influence in trying to keep him close to her all the time.
    I think a SLI will stay put until he sees a reason to move on. So much effort to move; there has to be a reason to make that effort. It seems to be easy for an adult child to live with his identical parent (probably dual parent, too, though i can't think of an example of that IRL right now. I do know a 30 year old LSI with his his LSI mom all these years and no apparent plan to move on.) It's kind of like being with a twin. They don't criticize and they tolerate our weaknesses. Three adults in the house can get more complicated so that might inspire a move, even though it won't be too bad being all identicals/duals there. It might inspire him to have a partner though. Seeing your Mom happy with an IEE dual just might be putting his ideas in his head that he will realize when he meets an IEE himself!

    Since you are "E" and he is "I" you may have less understanding of his need for alone time. It's likely to seem like a bit much to you. My parents were both introverts (ESI mom and SLI dad) and they imposed alone time on me for no good reason when I was in high school and beginning to leave my shell. I was motivated to be with my friends on a weekend nights and sometimes they would spontaneously come up with interesting plans and I was anxious to join them. Well my parents (they always would agree with each other) would randomly forbid me to go out on a Saturday because I had already been out on Friday, and "that was enough". Infuriating to a teenager when your parents make no sense! It made sense to their introvert sensibilities though.

    Try prayer. Even if this is not normal to you. I believe it was inspiration that made you notice this girl. Try asking Who inspired you for help, that your son be inspired to notice cute IEE. For IEE to notice him. For a spark of some kind to ignite somehow. Pray. That's in your power. You don't need a great deal of faith to pray, just a tiniest little bit - the amount of a mustard seed compared to your entire body. That's not much! You can muster that.

    I'll pray too, but I think your prayer means even more. I truly do because I think God will want to show you He really is there for you, and cares about all the desires of your heart.
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  28. #28
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    I hate SLI's

    That's mostly coz I hate the way they have treated me though.

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    Serious Left-Static Negativist Eliza Thomason's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kernel View Post
    I was reading this description of SLI-IEE duality by Stratiyevskaya and this part (about the initial stage of dualization) grabbed my attention.


    - It seems like the fourth quadra has the most stable duality. - The reader notices. - Looks like here partners dualize easily and successfully ...
    - This is one thing that cannot be said about the irrational dyad of 4th quadra. Once dualized, they actually form a very prosperous and harmonious couple. But the process of dualization in this pair is perhaps the most difficult and lengthy one, in part because both partners in this pair are two different kinds of "Don Juan": one - in the intuitive ethical interpretation, and other other - in the sensory logical one.
    The model of dualization here builds in such a way that partners not only eventually recognize that they are worthy of each other, but also have time to get "locked onto" each other, such that they don't feel the need to search for further alternatives. (And one must agree that for a "Don Juan" this is very important: this is what brings him a sense of peace, stability, and satisfaction with what he has.)
    Of course, such smooth and complimentary dualization is achieved only over a long period of time, which is required for these partners to get to know each other better.
    - So this dyad doesn't dualize "at first sight"?
    - No. In addition, dualization here may progress very slowly, in small steps. And even the most active and the most romantic stage of dualization (their "honeymoon") may happen only years after they first met each other.


    What do you guys think of it? And was it accurate from your experiences?

    It is true in our case. I don't know about prosperous but we are doing quite well actually since we were both poorly off when we met (physically). In that first meeting my now-husband said he was a "ruin", referring to financially, and the stress caused by his daughters latest recovering-addict boyfriend who backslid and stole everything he had left of value including copper wires in the house... We have been married six years now and converted two porches into nice rooms, one with a small extension and one with an added downstairs powder room, also we bleached the entire house and roof covered that had tons of black algae, common here in the Berkshires) and replaced several windows, replaced the the entire house of exterior window trim, and built a beautiful 2 story shed (there was no shed or garage). Also we painted the entire interior, woodwork, walls and ceilings, redid the main bathroom and much of the kitchen. Installed a gas furnace to replace the dead oil one, and installed a wood stove. So if you consider what we have started with we are very prosperous! I didn't bring much with me other than too much furniture for this small house. We did the work ourselves (except masonry), and designed everything together. I had asked him when we started planning our future what he would like to do if he could do what he wanted, and he said "work on the house", and he definitely has! I have also made much progress in my career, so while we are not well off I think we have both done well. I think we both find it easy to be productive when it is so easy and comfortable to be together.

    In the last month or two somewhere here on 16T I wrote out my how-we-met story so i won't repeat it. But as to the above descriptions of dualization, I would say we kind of didn't dualize right away. There was a whole getting to know you thing online where we weren't considering each other as possible partners for a year or two. I met him online and as a divorced single mom I was determined to learn to like being single, in case that was God's will for me. We met virtually on a forum about a topic that limited off-topic discussion - though folk would always have some other things to refer to, and I always found what my SLI now-husband referred to as interesting, so we would message off forum about those topics and we ended up getting to know each other. I respected him and I felt heard by him. He was also a longtime single parent after his wife left and he still wore his wedding ring, was Catholic (I was a new Catholic) and accepted God probably wanted him single. He felt "safe" as to my goals. So for a time we wrote a LOT. I like to say we were just friends but the fact is there were two or three times, over the course of very much writing, that he rather flirted with me (so briefly and so conservatively) and I was touched DEEPLY. Though we never wrote about that. But then both of our lives got complicated, he with his daughters drug problems and then "falling pregnant" at 15, and me when my Dad died and my Mom got Alzheimer's and there just wasn't' time for either of us for conversations, which had been light, and our lives got heavy.

    Then a few years forward when I was in his state we met for about an hour, becasue I thought I would never be in the state again, and his home was one mile off my route, and I thought it would be fun to meet my old friend even though it had been a few years since we had written; I was fond of him as my old friend. I unexpectedly fell hard for him in the minutes before I left and I could not will it away though I really wanted to - this compelling unexpected attraction for a person it made no sense to fall for. About a month later I learned of Socionics and it all made sense. i truly needed it to make sense and now it did. It wasn't easy to put our lives together long distance but we were both equally motivated so we did.

    So like Stratiyevskaya says, there was a long get-to-know you period before the romance sucked us in.

    Looking back on dating years I dated two other duals. One was a first boyfriend. It was high school and he introduced me to the wonderful world of making out, but not being able to make much more progress which I think he had much successful experience with previously, he broke up for a more experienced girl which broke my heart... and as he stayed friends with my brother over the years, from what I heard of it seems he had one serious girlfriend, live-in, or wife after another. He'd roped me in by taking my hand as we were in the back of a bus together in the dark, and gently rubbing the back of my hand with a circular motion with his thumb... he won me instantly with that so I guess you would call that Si-valuing. Later in college I dated another SLI and it could of got serious as he wrote long sweet notes and poems to me and walked with me outdoors on the campus, a dear gentle romance, but then he wanted to be "off" our just-begun dating for the summer when he went away on adventures, and my pride was hurt and I would hardly look at him when we returned to school... So those two never had time to develop into dualization. And I did have this inner need to keep searching for an ideal partner, as I think the later SLI was doing, too. When we returned he watched me sadly and sent a note expressing regret for how things were now between us, but what i needed was a sincere apology, and more of an explanation of what that regret was. And since that didn't happen we never got together. And I later went on to marry the wrong guy [an ESE, who knew how to play the part of a most romantic lover].
    "A man with a definite belief always appears bizarre, because he does not change with the world; he has climbed into a fixed star, and the earth whizzes below him like a zoetrope."
    ........ G. ........... K. ............... C ........ H ........ E ...... S ........ T ...... E ........ R ........ T ........ O ........ N ........


    "Having a clear faith, based on the creed of the Church, is often labeled today as fundamentalism... Whereas relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and swept along
    by every wind of teaching, looks like the only
    attitude acceptable to today's standards."
    - Pope Benedict the XVI, "The Dictatorship of Relativism"

    .
    .
    .


  30. #30
    LemurianLo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PissholeMan View Post
    I hate SLI's

    That's mostly coz I hate the way they have treated me though.
    How could you hate SLI's? We're just grumpy Rilakkuma's man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LemurianLo View Post
    How could you hate SLI's? We're just grumpy Rilakkuma's man.
    Well, if some people treat me like shit, I'll likely dislike them, I think that makes sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PissholeMan View Post
    Well, if some people treat me like shit, I'll likely dislike them, I think that makes sense.
    Makes sense

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    Quote Originally Posted by LemurianLo View Post
    Makes sense
    It's not that I hate all SLI's, it's just that the ones i've met online are sorta cuntish(tho you and @Tommy are an exception), but I know one in real life and she's awesome and a friend of mine. She's caregiving with me and I appreciate that.

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    Rebelondeck's Avatar
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    The initialization of these relationships seems totally in the hands of IEEs, who tend to cherish personal freedom more than anything else. They look for people who are non-confining even though many would benefit from a significant amount of grounding. They don't usually stop long enough to think about what would be good for them in a practical sense. SLIs often present a confining or severe aura, which can require a significant amount of face-time to dispel, and unfortunately, both types are not noted for their patience. When they're together, IEEs seem to continually pull on the leash and it's fortunate for some that SLIs can be very loyal even when abused.

    a.k.a. I/O

  35. #35
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    How about you don’t force him to meet a dual and let him do his own thing and live his own life and not try and set him up with someone he hasn’t met yet?

    I hate people trying to force this dual thing on people. If you meet someone you like, you like them regardless of their type.

    Yes, duals do look ideal within the theory and on paper, but they don’t always translate that way into reality. As the types vary so much in real life.

    Just let it happen. Let him find someone he likes in his own time. Don’t rush him into things. Even dates and if he wants to stay inside, let him.


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    I want to trap an SLI and abuse them like the rapist/murderer I am.

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