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Thread: Delta and Passive-Aggressive Behaviour?

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    I allow myself to be walked all over for a long time and eventually start getting more and more snide and sarcastic (which usually goes unnoticed by the intended recipient) until I eventually explode with self righteous anger surprising everyone around me. And I am not skilled in voicing my displeasure since I do it so rarely, so I usually just look insane, regret saying anything at all, then vow to go back to being a doormat. I wouldn't really call myself passive aggressive though. More like passive and then aggressive but usually not both at the same time lol. For example I would never try to get back at someone secretly (revenge does nothing for me) or leave a passive aggressive note. I'm too passive to even leave a note. Though I have known an EII to love leaving passive aggressive notes.

    I know two SLIs well and they can both be very passive aggressive. I almost find the behavior charming. Usually they are so calm and seem unbothered, but when they are upset they get kind of whiny which I find funny for some reason, but mostly because it is so different from their usual behavior. For example, my SLI coworker once texted me asking if I wanted to come in to work on my day off to help them out since he injured his hand and would be basically useless. I said no, I don't want to but I will if I must. (This actually does sound kind of passive aggressive of me to say now that I think about it lol but I didn't mean it to be. He asked if I wanted to and I was honest with him.) I was expecting his response to be something like "Hate to bother you on your day off but it would really help us out and I'd appreciate it if you would come in." Instead he said "It's fine. We can just suffer," and my jaw literally dropped from how whiny he sounded. I immediately told him not to worry and of course I would come in, it's no big deal. It totally worked on me. Idk why. Dual magic I guess. I do really like that guy.

    As for LSEs, I only know one for a fact and I don't know her that well, but I can only describe her as blunt. Not really passive, not really aggressive, but she hides nothing. She puts her foot in her mouth a lot but doesn't seem to notice or care. You will know if she has a problem with you for sure.

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    I'm usually overall passive, and conflict avoidant. People may not know that there's anything wrong, and I try not to interact with those people if something goes wrong. But I don't forget easily, and keep a lot bottled up inside.

    I do get on the passive aggressive side if I have to spend enough time around someone who I don't particularly like, or someone who did something to rub me the wrong way. I can be stubborn too, and I may come up with excuses dealing with people who I get on the wrong foot with, or rather who get on the wrong foot with me.
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  3. #43
    Type me whatever you want thegreenfaerie's Avatar
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    People being passive-aggressive/making passive-aggressive slights really bothers me. It is a pet peeve. That being said, I am sure I am capable of being passive-aggressive myself, though I don’t usually take the underhanded slights route if so.

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    I almost think that deltas think being passive aggressive is equal to being socially aware and cool lol. I guess it is in theory, in a way. Occasionally beta NF get passive aggressive too though IME, especially IEI.

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    Type me whatever you want thegreenfaerie's Avatar
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    That is true. I knew an IEI who got passive aggressive sometimes, paired with outright aggression and cruelty. He was mentally unstable as half the IEI men I have affiliated with have been.

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    Its considerably less painful to just be frank with people and to escalate to aggression from there if the situation demands it.
    e_e being passive aggressive is kinda scary tbh and never works, how dafuq is the other person supposed to know what bothers you if you don't tell them?

    with that said I have been told before to just keep stuff to myself, because it upsets other ppl and causes problems for my family members.. but I hate it when I'm not allowed to say or do something important just because other people can't be honest with each-other. All this scheming and talking behind other people's back or gossip bothers me.. I can't have a good opinion about ppl who do that.

    :/ I do agree that sometimes I upset people or worse make them cry by merely presenting how things really are, but if I care I don't want to bend the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Its considerably less painful to just be frank with people and to escalate to aggression from there if the situation demands it.
    e_e being passive aggressive is kinda scary tbh and never works, how dafuq is the other person supposed to know what bothers you if you don't tell them?

    with that said I have been told before to just keep stuff to myself, because it upsets other ppl and causes problems for my family members.. but I hate it when I'm not allowed to say or do something important just because other people can't be honest with each-other. All this scheming and talking behind other people's back or gossip bothers me.. I can't have a good opinion about ppl who do that.

    :/ I do agree that sometimes I upset people or worse make them cry by merely presenting how things really are, but if I care I don't want to bend the truth.
    There is a way to be tactful yet honest without resorting to either aggression or passive-aggression. People’s feelings and levels of sensitivity do matter, not just your determination to tell “truth”

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    Yes, the thing is about questioning consesus. I kind of live by the principle never trust in yourself or others (only trust in heavily cross referenced material without contradiction). Peace of mind in Delta resides here whereas mine is about never accepting "reality" because I think that reality is controversial.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    Its considerably less painful to just be frank with people and to escalate to aggression from there if the situation demands it.
    e_e being passive aggressive is kinda scary tbh and never works, how dafuq is the other person supposed to know what bothers you if you don't tell them?

    with that said I have been told before to just keep stuff to myself, because it upsets other ppl and causes problems for my family members.. but I hate it when I'm not allowed to say or do something important just because other people can't be honest with each-other. All this scheming and talking behind other people's back or gossip bothers me.. I can't have a good opinion about ppl who do that.

    :/ I do agree that sometimes I upset people or worse make them cry by merely presenting how things really are, but if I care I don't want to bend the truth.
    Similar for me. (most probably LSE)

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    I'm not saying people should have to walk on eggshells, but people shouldn't have to be dicks either

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    I hate passive-aggressiveness, except when it's me doing it, in which case it's perfectly justified. Or at least that's what I tell myself.

    Really though, I prefer honesty and straightforwardness, unless... you want to impose, I don't know, your feelings or judgment or political/religious/whatever viewpoint on others, or you want to act out and be an obnoxious piece of shit, in which case, yeah, just shut your mouth and keep away.

    In terms of acting (as opposed to just verbally communicating) in a passive-aggressive manner, the only scenario I can see making sense would be when you can't reason with someone or find common ground, and yet you have to interact or do something that affects them in some way.

    And while I dislike conflict, I do encourage confrontation, as it helps clear things out, prevent potential—and resolve existing—conflict.
    Last edited by Park; 05-27-2020 at 09:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreenfaerie View Post
    I'm not saying people should have to walk on eggshells, but people shouldn't have to be dicks either
    I'll give an example. My IEE brother and 2 of his university pals made an advertising and digital marketing company a year ago and last week they were hiring, because its going well. He interviewed 3 people and later that day he asked me for my opinion. Obviously one of the 3 was qualified, however the guy was 4 years older than they were and was asking for more $ than they would offer, so it would be a bad idea to hire even him considering he didn't seem to take them seriously (age difference). We discussed and I gave my advice based on the information at hand.. he got upset e_e and stormed out. I swear I just presented the facts and calmly advised him not to hire either of them, due to all the drawbacks each had for the post. Once hired ppl are hard to fire here and they can't afford that. some time later he apologized (WTF) and told me I was right, they need to keep looking.

    my best guess as to why he got upset was is that I tend to see every possible way something can go wrong... so he may be enthusiastic, but I just take the situation and shoot it full of holes so to speak and once all the flaws are presented I formulate a solution.

    e_e so a lot of the time, I'm calm and just explain stuff and then people get angry, because its not what they wanted to hear... while I'm just being constructive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I'll give an example. My IEE brother and 2 of his university pals made an advertising and digital marketing company a year ago and last week they were hiring, because its going well. He interviewed 3 people and later that day he asked me for my opinion. Obviously one of the 3 was qualified, however the guy was 4 years older than they were and was asking for more $ than they would offer, so it would be a bad idea to hire even him considering he didn't seem to take them seriously (age difference). We discussed and I gave my advice based on the information at hand.. he got upset e_e and stormed out. I swear I just presented the facts and calmly advised him not to hire either of them, due to all the drawbacks each had for the post. Once hired ppl are hard to fire here and they can't afford that. some time later he apologized (WTF) and told me I was right, they need to keep looking.

    my best guess as to why he got upset was is that I tend to see every possible way something can go wrong... so he may be enthusiastic, but I just take the situation and shoot it full of holes so to speak and once all the flaws are presented I formulate a solution.

    e_e so a lot of the time, I'm calm and just explain stuff and then people get angry, because its not what they wanted to hear... while I'm just being constructive.
    ah, yeah, I hear ya. It can be a bit annoying when people are unrealistic pertaining to certain things. Do you think it was the advice you gave him or the way you presented it ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreenfaerie View Post
    ah, yeah, I hear ya. It can be a bit annoying when people are unrealistic pertaining to certain things. Do you think it was the advice you gave him or the way you presented it ?
    I just asked him, here is the exact quote from whatsapp:
    MAH BRO: It's not about how you said it necessarily, it's just that I've been "running a business" for some time now and everyone says that they would do a better job, make better decisions and think more objectively than me. I'm not saying you (or others) wouldn't, but it's like backseat driving, easy to keep commenting and harder to actually take the wheel and do it. It also becomes like an instinct to throw aside advice that comes from someone that isn't a businessman themselves or doesn't have experience.

    ME: The business is doing good, so you are doing a good job imo.

    MAH BRO: I know I am, but a lot of less comepetent people (not you) think they would do it better if they were me ) like fucking losers that work retail jobs at Altex. Hearing "the haters" makes me weary of "advice". Also, you commented on a slightly subjective matter as if what you said is 100% fact, which made me angry ) And you do that quite often, which usually makes me angry, say things as if they were fucking physics theorems ) I mean, I know youre very sure of what you say and you believe it very much, but presenting it like its written in the bible will make people angry regardless of you being right
    Looks like it was unrelated to how I came across giving the advice. Well almost. e_e fuck, I have to work on this..

    see? ez, just ask and talk with ppl.

    Shit now he is on a roll! <_< what have I done...

    Also when you are so adamant and sure that what you say is right and what others say is wrong people will go on the defensive, since you shot them down. Its easier to try more subtly to make someone understand that you are right and they are wrong than saying "No, you're wrong". Most people can't take that and continue a conversation
    ..he started ranting, I posed the ful snapshots of the conversation in my type me thread.
    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 05-28-2020 at 10:15 AM.

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    Yea I can be passive agressive, but I think it's because I'm an enneagram 9. In general I think passive aggresion is something that introverts do more often. Extroverts often are just aggressive, I suppose because because they automatically assume that problems are external, so there is less "you did that to me" and more "you're a problem!" thinking.
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    @shotgunfingers What you should know:

    - your brother seems to be insecure about his business skills, so maybe some encouragement and support would be nice. Something like "Good job man! Look at those benefits! blablabla"
    - you sound like having strengthened thinking. And judging from the whole "i present facts" stuff, it seems like you're not good at active listening and probably also think your advice should be given more credit than it's worth. Remember that (1) your brother probably didn't give you all the reasons for him to hire or not that person, and that maybe money or age wasn't his main criteria. Maybe he thought the person would be a good fit to the team. Or bring expertise. Whatever it was, you didn't even stop mansplaining to ask him, right? (2) That it's not your company. "I tend to see every possible way something can go wrong..." seriously, do you even know something about online marketing? A good step would be to stop hogging authority and pretending you're some kind of risk management expert.
    - I've dealt with SLIs-Te(assuming you're one) at my job. What they call "constructive criticism" is actually destructive. They are just "hole pocking experts", having this petty smugness about pointing out what's wrong. But when the whole shit's going down, no one's there to pick up the pieces. So, you're telling your brother that his efforts were vain and that he has to repeat the whole selection process? Well, at least have the decency to be nice about it, if you don't want him to shoot the messenger. Or at least propose a compromise, like "you sure you can't negotiate with the guy?".
    - In conclusion, yea I think you acted like a dick (from the little info I have)

    And last but not least, it's the wrong thread for personal relationship problems. I answered your post once, but next time just open a new thread, okay?
    Last edited by lkdhf qkb; 05-28-2020 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Insensitive wording
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkdhf qkb View Post
    @shotgunfingers What you should know:

    - your brother seems to have an inferiority complex on his business skills, so maybe some encouragement and support would be nice. Something like "Good job man! Look at those benefits! blablabla"
    - you sound like having strengthened thinking. And judging from the whole "i present facts" bullshit, it seems like you're not good at active listening and probably also think your advice should be given more credit than it's worth. Remember that (1) your brother probably didn't give you all the reasons for him to hire or not that person, and that maybe money or age wasn't his main criteria. Maybe he thought the person would be a good fit to the team. Or bring expertise. Whatever it was, you didn't even stop mansplaining to ask him, right? (2) That it's not your company. "I tend to see every possible way something can go wrong..." lol, what do you even know about online marketing? Stop hogging authority and pretending you're some kind of risk management expert.
    you are right I din;t have all the info. I should praise him for how good he actually runs that company. I still ended up being right despite missing info tho

    - I've dealt with SLIs-Te(assuming you're one) at my job. What they call "constructive criticism" is actually destructive. They are just "hole pocking experts", having this petty smugness about pointing out what's wrong. But when the whole shit's going down, no one's there to pick up the pieces. So, you're telling your brother that his efforts were vain and that he has to repeat the whole selection process? Well, at least have the decency to be nice about it, if you don't want him to shoot the messenger. Or at least propose a compromise, like "you sure you can't negotiate with the guy?".
    He had the choice between an outgoing hot theater major with no IT or marketing skills, a guy older than they are who studied marketing at the uni and looked down on them, they weren't going to afford him anyway and another girl where I trusted my brothers "she feels off for the team" intuition and left it at that. I was insensitive tho.

    - In conclusion, yea I think you were a dick (from the little info I have)
    Fuck...

    And last but not least, it's the wrong thread for your personal relationship problems. It's not a Fi-clinic in here. I answered your post once, but next time just open a new thread, okay?
    I have a type me thread EDIT: I posted the pics of my whats-app convo about this with my bro.
    Last edited by shotgunfingers; 05-28-2020 at 02:19 PM.

  18. #58
    Type me whatever you want thegreenfaerie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shotgunfingers View Post
    I just asked him, here is the exact quote from whatsapp:

    Looks like it was unrelated to how I came across giving the advice. Well almost. e_e fuck, I have to work on this..

    see? ez, just ask and talk with ppl.

    Shit now he is on a roll! <_< what have I done...



    ..he started ranting, I posed the ful snapshots of the conversation in my type me thread.
    Lol, you said your brother is an IEE right? Could be he's upset that you aren't taking a more open "well it could turn out like this" approach and rather acting all-knowing and like you know all the facts. I think that can come off closed-off in a sense, like even if he were to state his side you're basically putting up a wall and being like NO. I mean, people are different, someone else might be okay with your addressing it as you do and just brush off your level of certainty, even if they don't agree, whereas others clearly might find it irritating. I guess with your brother you could just try to hear him out on what he's saying and try to be more cautious on seeming so certain and rather just, give advice. I think I've probably gotten irritated by similar, may be a combination of Ne, Ti PoLr and role Se, I'm not sure. It sounds like he asked for your advice though, so if he knows you well, I mean, he should somewhat expect that sort of answer, lol. Still, might be good with work with him more on the approach and there may be some things he could work with you on in turn too. It's good you were able to openly ask him why he was upset about it, I don't always feel comfortable doing that with my family members.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegreenfaerie View Post
    Lol, you said your brother is an IEE right? Could be he's upset that you aren't taking a more open "well it could turn out like this" approach and rather acting all-knowing and like you know all the facts. I think that can come off closed-off in a sense, like even if he were to state his side you're basically putting up a wall and being like NO. I mean, people are different, someone else might be okay with your addressing it as you do and just brush off your level of certainty, even if they don't agree, whereas others clearly might find it irritating. I guess with your brother you could just try to hear him out on what he's saying and try to be more cautious on seeming so certain and rather just, give advice. I think I've probably gotten irritated by similar, may be a combination of Ne, Ti PoLr and role Se, I'm not sure. It sounds like he asked for your advice though, so if he knows you well, I mean, he should somewhat expect that sort of answer, lol. Still, might be good with work with him more on the approach and there may be some things he could work with you on in turn too. It's good you were able to openly ask him why he was upset about it, I don't always feel comfortable doing that with my family members.
    I may often fail to show it (which is why I had to explain this to him), but I love my brother.. and we are on good terms, at least good enough where he can ask me anything and I can do the same. :/ now that I'm aware how others see me I'm changing some things. I still suck at all this Fe stuff, but I can maybe compensate for this at least with him by being more clear and by adapting my behavior so I don't steamroll him with Te. .. anyway, thank you, this interaction has been most productive and O.o eventful to say the least.

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