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Thread: Mistypes Due to Social/Cultural Pressures

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    Default Mistypes Due to Social/Cultural Pressures

    I wondered if anyone has felt their natural personality is unloved where they lived, and thus adapted (or as a child, were directed to adapt) to project an image that doesn't represent who you are. What I've noticed is that if you do this for long enough, it becomes hard to distinguish the real and the unreal in your own mind, and you become the character you create.

    This has happened to me and it screwed me up for years. I live in a country which values stoicism, politeness, reliability, continuity and, well, for the lack of a better word, averageness. It is a sin to stick out, make a noise, burn sofas, moan so loud that your orgasms wake the neighbours, let alone dare to mention that you want a toilet in your house that is made out of solid 24-carat gold. You are uncouth, too extreme, and just repulsive.

    However as a child and a teen, I had to adapt simply to survive, so I shut most of this down and put on a facade of cool, logical detachment. This made me somewhat of an awkward loner but it kept me out of trouble. Unfortunately, it also meant that people around me misread me in a different way, and couldn't figure out what I really desired and wanted. Instead of encouraging me to explore my music and my sexual...needs, my family kept pushing me academically. They could see my talent and the results coming in made them happy.

    But as soon as I started to live on my own I lost interest in that. Depression and a lack of clear purpose did not help; I am still on a journey, trying to rediscover who I really am and shake off all the old demons and unhealthy patterns that were forced upon me. Unfortunately, my true self, when it arises, create dissonance where I live. Without meaning to, I make people feel insecure by being too intense, too shocking, too brash and not patient enough...on and on it goes, but I hate to change because this is who I am and how I love to be. I don't mean to upset anyone. All I am doing is expressing how I feel. It does not help being a man either, because women here seem to highly value men who are moderate, easy-going, a bit reserved and not overtly sexual. How boring.

    To come back to my main point, what saved me from taking these criticisms to heart are my experiences overseas. I have been around the world and felt so much easier. So I know that there are people out there who love what I have to offer, they admire me, but they're not here.

    So in my roundabout way what's I'm asking is this: have you ever felt like you mistype or have done in the past, for similar reasons? If so I'd be interested to hear why - what particular functions you think are valued/unvalued in your society, and how did this affect you? In my case this is largely a Se vs Si problem.

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    yeah I generally blame my surroundings for everything

    everything includes mistyping

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    yeah I generally blame my surroundings for everything

    everything includes mistyping
    ^ extremely boring, I guarantee that people go to sleep when he makes a speech

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    I don't know, I think in most countries you can find a niche for people similar to you, it may not be easy but it's probably doable. I remember when I was like 6, my neighborhood was dominated by some beta quadra kids, one day i decided to cycle to a different neighborhood and found some friends that I still go out with.

    If you're from an extremely small and isolated place, it may be more difficult.
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    There are a lot of unwritten rules in kiwi culture stemming from mainly the church. Many of these ‘rules or guidelines’ are not even remotely biblical.
    I have dealt with consequences of these myself.

    You just need to find that special someone who likes the forwardness you have sexually and doesn’t mind the golden tiolet idea :-)
    Last edited by Hays; 10-28-2017 at 10:31 AM.

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    Whilst you make a valid point that people can be way too prude-ish and uptight and discriminate against those that stand out - you honestly go too far in the other direction that it's creepy. It isn't just everybody else's fault. You might just be trying to be yourself or have fun, but some of the things you say if we were to take you seriously you'd be serving prison time for them lol. You deliberately go overboard and relationships are all about compromise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuivienen View Post
    I don't mean to upset anyone. All I am doing is expressing how I feel.
    What you say is common for Fe types. Those versions should be thought also still.

    > It does not help being a man either, because women here seem to highly value men who are moderate, easy-going, a bit reserved and not overtly sexual.

    If you'll can to understand own type (what you prevent significantly by rejecting of making video), this will help you to find woman you need. Duality relations not only allow to accept you wider, also will smooth some issues without impression that you become wrong to your Self.

    > So I know that there are people out there who love what I have to offer, they admire me, but they're not here.

    People are similar anywhere.

    > So in my roundabout way what's I'm asking is this: have you ever felt like you mistype or have done in the past, for similar reasons?

    In early childhood (up to 10 y) I was more emotional because of my ESE mother. So I could look closer to F types than become later. Such influence had some negative impact on me, what was gradually reduced when I became more psychically independent.

    > If so I'd be interested to hear why - what particular functions you think are valued/unvalued in your society, and how did this affect you? In my case this is largely a Se vs Si problem.

    Russia seems mostly betish society. It's not common when someone cares about your personal feelings (Fi), you may easily get offenced without good reasons (Fe), there is more dirt and untidiness than should (no Si), people perceive physical aggression as norma (Se), your formal position (Ti) is respected more than you really do (Te), I like collectivism but here it also assumes much of depersonalization (no Ne), surplus external religious popularity (Ni).
    I often think that to be SLE or LSI would be easier here, including because how many EIE and IEI women, including good ones, I met in my life, unlike more rare delta F types women. Just as example, I never studed or worked with EII woman of close age, but among those were at least 2 EIE, 3 IEI.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by bulletsanddoves View Post
    Whilst you make a valid point that people can be way too prude-ish and uptight and discriminate against those that stand out - you honestly go too far in the other direction that it's creepy. It isn't just everybody else's fault. You might just be trying to be yourself or have fun, but some of the things you say if we were to take you seriously you'd be serving prison time for them lol. You deliberately go overboard and relationships are all about compromise.
    If I want advice about how to live my life, I'll ask for it. In this case I haven't, so stay on topic and don't get personal. My patience is at an end now. You just compared me to a convicted felon and that is a step too far.

    If I receive any further comments of this nature (as they have nothing to do with my OP questions, they can only be mean-spirited), I will report them, and I expect those reports to be acted on or I will take this into my own hands.

    This goes for everyone. Do not preach to me again; no more bullshit unless you want this to escalate. Are we clear?
    Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-28-2017 at 12:49 PM.

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    Well. Well, well, well. Germany is thoroughly logical + head center with no ethics in sight, that's likely why I started out as ILI 5 In general: I can definitely see how local or national culture pressures you into a certain box, no doubt.

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    If I want advice about how to live my life, I'll ask for it. In this case I haven't, so stay on topic and don't get personal. My patience is at an end now. You just compared me to a convicted felon and that is a step too far.
    It's not advice about how to live your life, it's just trying to get through to you why you can't go around saying things like you'll split teenage girls in half and just expect everybody to be hunky-dory with that.
    And it's not preaching, more like I learned this lesson myself just recently. Trust me, you will only shoot yourself in the foot if you keep it up but it's up to you.

    If I receive any further comments of this nature (as they have nothing to do with my OP questions, they can only be mean-spirited), I will report them, and I expect those reports to be acted on or I will take this into my own hands.
    lol good luck with that, because I'm a moderator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bulletsanddoves View Post
    It's not advice about how to live your life,


    Re-read your post. You have literally just given me relationship advice

    Quote Originally Posted by bulletsanddoves View Post

    it's just trying to get through to you why you can't go around saying things like you'll split teenage girls in half and just expect everybody to be hunky-dory with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by bulletsanddoves View Post
    I don't like the condescending tone of your response. My conduct off the forum is none of your business, and it's irrelevant to the thread topic.

    For the record, I asked everyone to discuss the following two things:

    (1.)
    Have you ever felt like you mistype or have done in the past, for similar reasons?
    (2.)
    What particular functions you think are valued/unvalued in your society, and how did this affect you?
    You decided to ignore this, and turn this thread into a mob referendum on my character or lack thereof.

    Quote Originally Posted by bulletsanddoves View Post
    And it's not preaching, more like I learned this lesson myself just recently. Trust me, you will only shoot yourself in the foot if you keep it up but it's up to you.

    You just gave another person unsolicited advice. This is preaching, it is highly disrespectful of me and I believe that you are well aware of this.

    Quote Originally Posted by bulletsanddoves View Post
    lol good luck with that, because I'm a moderator.

    You have called me "creepy" and insinuated that my behaviour is criminal, without providing any evidence for either. This is just the latest of many personal attacks I've received from other people on the forum.

    However, moderators are expected to stay neutral, not pick fights with other posters and flame them. I hope you will recuse yourself from any decisions that may involve me in the future.
    Last edited by Spermatozoa; 10-29-2017 at 12:04 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuivienen View Post
    Do not preach to me again
    And herein lays some of the problem with kiwi culture and unless you have lived it this could be difficult to comprehend.

    Yes it’s slowly changing and yes there are many other locations in the world where life is like this or times in ones life when this occurs.

    What it does is causes confines and one is pushed into pleasing others or making mistakes in their life.

    One way it played in my life (exert from an email):
    And sessions with the minister when she thought I was being naughty in whatever way once I turned 13...basically I would just shyly sit there forced to listen whilst receiving my own personal sermon about being wayward from the minister.

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    Complaining 24/7 about self-created problems is a bad way to avoid unsolicited advice. Just an observation. I don't like seeing bnd antagonized for having the same compulsion I've had to try to ease the burdens you constantly express.

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    I know what you're talking about, it must be a kind of extreme traditionalism or ruralism or tribal mentality.

    Honestly I wouldn't try to judge unless you're in Cuivienen's shoes and experienced what he has experienced. How he comes across on the forum may be questionable, but that's probably not what he had in mind when he made this thread. It's like somebody who has experienced racism/sexism complaining and you're going "Whoa what's the big deal? It's not that big of a deal. I don't see why you should make such a big deal about it. Just chill and forget about it something." Which is ironic, since Cuivienen hates this exact kind of PC-ness.

    Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily tie it to Socionics or something, but it does exist.

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    Well you know what, mines like, i experienced bullshit in life interacting with difficult people that i kinda defend a mechanism to adjust my attitude to every people.
    Well, honestly what i am in online is actually the real me.

    Because I'm free to say whatever i want without the fear of being judged or making someone to tell me I'm wrong.

    But then, i think when you have reached some certain status in life, people will start respecting you for stupid reasons - status.

    When i was a kid, I tend to question everything. But ofcourse i don't really don't know what is right or wrong. I always thought adults are always right. But still i never believed anyone.

    I'm actually well, i don't actually know if my personality was forced to change, but i just learned from every lessons i experienced. I also learned how to deal with difficult people. What is really unappropriate, i mean. I was in the middle of things.

    I develop this neutrality towards things.

    Like example, rules and regulations. Some p types sees that as stupid. But ofcourse it's not. Rules are there for a reason, and without rules life will be a mess. No system. You can break stupid rules if it doesn't affect anyone.
    But by breaking a rule that affects majority of things is plainly stupid.

    Probably i just became more open minded. Because every people in my life have opinions about certain things.

    Sometimes, i also human experiment like i do this kind of stuff, just to test how people will behave.

    Ex: looking good, and looking ugly.

    People are nice to me and it benefits me always when i look good. But when i look like meh or doesn't even try to effort to look attractive like dress like a 40yo man and look dull then you'll just in the background and people will not be nice to you.

    I have lots of misunderstanding why people behave in a certain way.

    I am confused about myself as well.

    But thanks to psychology, i finally understood things.

    It open my mind very well.

    Like whenever someone do something, it's like i can psychoanalyze why. And when i know the reason, it's like i don't need to dwell on that.. Specially if someone had seemingly turned cold to me. I don't blame the person, but i know why.

    Bad people usually projects their misery to someone.

    I also learned a lot by experiencing depression in life.

    And how getting off my head helps me calm down and get me off my anxieties.

    You know, i actually learned that using my cognitive function as Se + Ti helps me calm down and function very well and get a control over my environment.

    I sometimes saying im SLe, i don't think it's because I'm an sle. But i think i can be an IEE.

    But being an IEE helps me for a certain moment and SLe as well.

    Probably the balance of SLe + iee will make me a super human like i can balance everything out and be healthy.

    I know why I'm being unhealthy. And how i can be healthy again.

    Like i know if i use a certain function too much i switch to another.

    People thinks it's not possible but it's actually possible to me.

    CBT works for me as well.

    The key is: don't be too hard on yourself and just surrender and give in like

    Being carefree is essential
    But being responsible is too.

    I developed the hack to be in the middle of things.

    Not too much carefree, not too much workaholic.

    For me, balance is the key.

    I'm either an Se or an Ne dom.
    Ti dom or Fi aux.
    Fe or Te third

    It works for me that way.

    Choosing to only use one will leave me depressed and unhealthy.

    That's all.

    It works for me that way.

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    Beta raised by deltas. What hell.
    Growing up it was taboo to express any emotion or to question authority. Every move, thought, and breath monitored. Had the bible shoved down my throat. Sex was never ever to be mentioned and I learned about it by going to the local library to learn about puberty and sex in the teen health section. A lot of this stemmed more from family dysfunction. I understand fully that "NOT ALL DELTAS ARE LIKE THIS" so no need to point that out. It's simply no place for a beta to thrive to be out numbered by their conflicting quadra.
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    Oh the childhood.

    People are chasing ball and competition seems rather fierce. Not taking part in that but instead I'm hanging out with others having rather peculiar conversations maybe being some sort of entertainer. I want to know how things work and I investigate.
    I do things my own way constantly breaking out of the mold and people are amazed/scared/amused. I gather information from various sources and cycle several kms to neighboring "village" library because I consumed interesting material from our own "village".
    I watched lots of fantasy filled tv shows etc.


    Even today people don't get me. What ever. Culture is not very receptive to my way own ways. It is so called aristocratic place. People stick together... and are very very skeptical how I function. Among deltas and alphas it is easier to break out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pole View Post
    Beta raised by deltas. What hell.
    Growing up it was taboo to express any emotion or to question authority. Every move, thought, and breath monitored. Had the bible shoved down my throat. Sex was never ever to be mentioned and I learned about it by going to the local library to learn about puberty and sex in the teen health section. A lot of this stemmed more from family dysfunction. I understand fully that "NOT ALL DELTAS ARE LIKE THIS" so no need to point that out. It's simply no place for a beta to thrive to be out numbered by their conflicting quadra.
    I thought that LSIs are not good at expressing emotion and they need EIEs to learn from. I thought they don't even desire to do so unless provoked by Fe ego types. Most cold appearing, distant people I can think of are LSIs. It's like they see emotionality as a weakness that needs to be denied.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuivienen View Post
    If I want advice about how to live my life, I'll ask for it. In this case I haven't, so stay on topic and don't get personal. My patience is at an end now. You just compared me to a convicted felon and that is a step too far.

    If I receive any further comments of this nature (as they have nothing to do with my OP questions, they can only be mean-spirited), I will report them, and I expect those reports to be acted on or I will take this into my own hands.

    This goes for everyone. Do not preach to me again; no more bullshit unless you want this to escalate. Are we clear?
    Then stop making threads where you complain about something in your life, this forum isn´t known for its high level of empathy, it´s just like this, it´s a personality forum with people who are not terribly nice (but neither actively bully others) and you are unlikely to find positive responses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Then stop making threads where you complain about something in your life
    So the witch hunt continues...

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    this forum isn´t known for its high level of empathy, it´s just like this, it´s a personality forum with people who are not terribly nice (but neither actively bully others) and you are unlikely to find positive responses.
    This thread is about mistypes and I was just one example. I want to thank all the posters who've recognized that, but likewise, it is pathetic how many still refuse to engage the topic on its merits. Some, such as Bertrand, seem desperate to get personal and provoke conflict, and you yourself are not helping.

    If 16types as a whole lacks empathy, then perhaps this is something we ought to work on, instead of lashing out opportunistically whenever someone looks vulnerable. The comments I've received here aren't even worthy of junior high.
    Last edited by Spermatozoa; 11-03-2017 at 08:34 PM.

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    I’ve faced this question for myself, but I’ve decided that I’m either too far gone, or this never happened to me.
    If it did, then it happened at a very early age, around kindergarten. Still, I doubt it, and there is no exterior persona that is hiding something inside me.

    Ill read the thread now.

    Ok. Well, the Germany thing I heard about.

    The junior high thing I wasn’t going to meantion, but yeah. It kind of pervades this place. No offense, most people who are my friends that communicate with me by instant message on the internet sound like they’re from junior high. The ones that don’t, take a while to respond.
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    I used to type myself based on my feelings against my own culture..... I was always going to be disliked and casted out without even doing anything, it made me feel alien... which is probably why I always thought I was an Fi Ne or Ti Ne type, since I felt completely disconnected from everyone around me.


    I think the type that everyone wanted me to be is LII..

    I was taught to hide my emotions from a young age, that if I had any bad thoughts that it would make me a bad person. My parents always tried to hurt my individuality by saying "Society/God wouldn't like that." I used to be very emotional as a kid but I realized that over the years of growing up with my dad I become silent and anxious of my own feelings and how to express them, I sometimes felt mute... but I felt tense inside, I wanted to say something but I could predict every reaction they would ever have, and I didn't like them. He always called me the smart one, or intelligent.... I grew into an image of someone who had no emotions and had to be as objective as possible to be liked. Everyone would reinforce this image by... associating literally every word to me that had to do with intelligence and whatever. So yeah, I think my unnatural emotional filter is probably one of the main reasons why I always thought I was an INTP/LII, or even Fe polr


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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    I thought that LSIs are not good at expressing emotion and they need EIEs to learn from. I thought they don't even desire to do so unless provoked by Fe ego types. Most cold appearing, distant people I can think of are LSIs. It's like they see emotionality as a weakness that needs to be denied.
    That is true. But what little expression I did show was squashed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viktor View Post
    I was also mostly among deltas growing up, dad is SLI, brother IEE, and mother was ESE. I don't think I had it as bad as you, never had any religion at home, I didn't even know any religious people. I was very wild as a child though, and I often got shit for that, and no one in my family is Se valueing so i don't think theywere able to understand how I was acting. So I had to tone myself down alot, I've become increasingly more withdrawn as I've gotten older, and I've learned to think about how others want me to act because of that. Many deltas and alphas where I live in general, my work that I have now is very delta, never felt like I fit in in the countryside. Also my parents have literally never mentioned sex in my entire life, so I was kinda clueless about that as an early teen, learned about ir from friends
    Relatable. Thanks!
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    Individuals from both branches of my family have sort of implicitly attempted to mold me into their personal view of what I ought to be, with varying success. Some of them seem to idealize Alpha NTs to a degree, and that's what they've tried to turn me into. Due to having adopted alpha NT traits (I guess -- I'm also a C-LIE-Ni with focus on demonstrative Ne) I get along with some alpha types unusually well for this reason. But from some years back now, I've been "shedding off" these fake imposed personality traits, and becoming more like my true self.

    I also suspect the place you grow up in shapes your personality to some extent. Like, each place has an energy of a determinate quadra or even a determinate type. I hail from an alpha place (I suspect), so that must have affected me a bit as well, even though I've always felt like an outsider. I've visited gamma places (or at least places I think vibe with gamma energy), and I've felt so very at home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuivienen View Post
    This thread is about mistypes
    I know, but your first post was 95% about you and 5% about your question on cultural mistypes. It's normal that people will proportionally focus on you instead of focussing on your question.

    If 16types as a whole lacks empathy, then perhaps this is something we ought to work on, instead of lashing out opportunistically whenever someone looks vulnerable.
    It's a characteristic of this place, it has always been fairly intellectual and a bit antagonistic (much less than many other forums I attend), you can't expect to expose your first world problems and get positive rewards.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I know, but your first post was 95% about you and 5% about your question on cultural mistypes. It's normal that people will proportionally focus on you instead of focussing on your question.



    It's a characteristic of this place, it has always been fairly intellectual and a bit antagonistic (much less than many other forums I attend), you can't expect to expose your first world problems and get positive rewards.
    i think its cuz this forum has a lot of fi valuers in it

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    It can be very difficult to separate root processing from personas that people feel they have to create in order to fit into particular segments of society. Didn't Shakespeare say that life was a stage and the people merely players? Inabilities to fully integrate can create overriding issues that also obscure the true picture. The only people who have any chance of determining type are the individuals themselves, and what are they able to do with it when it's actually determined; it can be like the dog catching the car. There are many of every type in every society and all types are capable of conforming but some individuals are not for various reasons - even when their type is the same as that of the majority. Many are born in hell and have no control but many create their own.......

    a.k.a. I/O

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    Hm. I was constantly being told to think before I spoke, and that I was too selfish. My mom told me that she didn't like me, and my parents were always trying to make me into a better nicer person. I was extremely competitive and involved in as many competitions that I could be. Not only did I enjoy it, but it gave me an excuse to not hang out with my family who I didn't enjoy being with. My dad saw this as a problem, and made me drop some of the things I was involved in. I cried when I had to quit. He thought he was doing it for my own good. We had pretty much no money, and had plain beans and cornbread for dinner every single night and I'd take the last piece of cornbread whenever I could (hey, I was a skinny, hungry kid) so to cure me of this, if there was only one piece left I had to ask everyone at the table if they wanted it, and if anyone else wanted it they got it, and I could only have it if everyone else was full.

    My mom wanted to cure me of what she saw as my selfishness and lack of compassion in other ways too. At school there were various jobs you could volunteer for. I always volunteered to water plants, or take care of animals, or clean the chalkboards. My mom made me volunteer instead one week to help out a retarded girl who was sometimes in our classroom. That did not go well. I had no idea what to do. I was supposed to help her get up from her desk and walk with the class to the lunchroom. I didn't know how to do this, so I tried to just physically move her. Thankfully a boy in the class who normally volunteered for the job rushed to my aid and asked if he could take over the job for the rest of the week. I was very very thankful.

    Another time, when we were staying with my grandparents and a couple of my cousins were also staying there, my mom had a similar kind of idea. One of my cousins is deaf and his right hand didn't work very well. My mom thought it'd be a good idea to make me throw a ball with him and teach him how to catch it with his right hand. He and I got along - we would make fun of each other, call each other specks that the other person was going to squash through signs and had jalapeño eating contests. What she made me do, trying to teach him was weird, and uncomfortable, like putting me on a level above him and I didn't like it, but she thought she was teaching me empathy. I don't actually lack empathy - it just doesn't look the same in me as it does in her. Also, with my cousin, she didn't recognize that we both preferred the Fe style of joking around with each other and she wanted me to be more Fi. And my dad wanted me to be more Si - to relax and sit around with my family instead of doing so much.

    Basically they were each trying to teach me to value what they value. That's what parents do. Their intentions were good, I think, but I pretty much always felt like I was a bad person just for being me. I left home when I was 17 and was immediately much much happier. This isn't a tragedy, it's just part of growing up for the majority of people I believe. You grow up, leave home, while discovering and establishing your own values. The degree to which you've internalized and tried to live up to the values and ideas of your childhood environment influences the amount of untangling you have to do to find where you actually belong. My mom still says that if I wasn't her daughter she wouldn't like me very much, but at the same time she says how proud she is of me and how much she respects me. And I'd rather have that respect (especially self-respect) than try to be what someone else wants of me and be liked, but not respected.

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    I've mistyped more due to online stereotypes more than anything and to wear masks to hide weaknesses and who I am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chains View Post
    I've mistyped more due to online stereotypes more than anything and to wear masks to hide weaknesses and who I am.
    Both good points. Hiding weakness can also play a role in cultural pressures for that matter, do you think it could overlap? The issue of superego "dread" comes to mind there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Both good points. Hiding weakness can also play a role in cultural pressures for that matter, do you think it could overlap? The issue of superego "dread" comes to mind there.
    Definitely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lavos View Post
    I also suspect the place you grow up in shapes your personality to some extent. Like, each place has an energy of a determinate quadra or even a determinate type. I hail from an alpha place (I suspect), so that must have affected me a bit as well, even though I've always felt like an outsider. I've visited gamma places (or at least places I think vibe with gamma energy), and I've felt so very at home.
    Kiwi (New Zealand) culture seems Delta to me. If I could pin down five values that represent the country they would be:

    Humility. Be humble, don't boast, exaggerate or try to stand out.
    Civility. Be polite, moderate and courteous, not lewd or uncouth.
    Fairness. Don't have favourites, because everybody deserves "a fair go" in life.
    Fortitude. Work hard and contribute, persist and do not change what you are doing.
    Reliability. If it works fine, don't fix it.

    You can see how an SEE might run into trouble here...

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    the path of SEE is hard in general. you gotta remember they're counterpart to ILI which is likewise hated in a eerily similar-but-distinct way. i think those two might be the hardest to understand by general society

    it probably has to do with how duality splits them down the middle and both half is viewed as extreme and hard to tolerate by society in its own peculiar way

    people might say SEE women have it easy because society loves hot women but its more like its just constantly trying to take advantage of them

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    the path of SEE is hard in general. you gotta remember they're counterpart to ILI which is likewise hated in a eerily similar-but-distinct way. i think those two might be the hardest to understand by general society
    I don't have much experience with ILI men and none with ILI women (which perhaps isn't surprising, because they're very rare). Lots with SEE women and men, though, and it is very easy, very natural. We just go from place to place, drink, laugh, talk about whatever we feel like. I don't know what an ILI woman would be like, or if they would like me really.

    The only ILI I've spent much time with is a friend I have online. While I admire his logic and internal energy, he isn't very satisfying to talk to, mainly because he tends to overwhelm me with long, convoluted monologues, and doesn't do a lot. For this reason we've kind of drifted apart, despite having similar interests and views.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    it probably has to do with how duality splits them down the middle and both half is viewed as extreme and hard to tolerate by society in its own peculiar way

    people might say SEE women have it easy because society loves hot women but its more like its just constantly trying to take advantage of them
    SEE women can usually fit in socially by using their Fe-role (women are encouraged to develop this, whereas men are not). Still, they don't usually feel like a part of the group in the way that a Fe-ego would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuivienen View Post
    I don't have much experience with ILI men and none with ILI women (which perhaps isn't surprising, because they're very rare). Lots with SEE women and men, though, and it is very easy, very natural. We just go from place to place, drink, laugh, talk about whatever we feel like. I don't know what an ILI woman would be like, or if they would like me really.

    The only ILI I've spent much time with is a friend I have online. While I admire his logic and internal energy, he isn't very satisfying to talk to, mainly because he tends to overwhelm me with long, convoluted monologues, and doesn't do a lot. For this reason we've kind of drifted apart, despite having similar interests and views.




    SEE women can usually fit in socially by using their Fe-role (women are encouraged to develop this, whereas men are not). Still, they don't usually feel like a part of the group in the way that a Fe-ego would.
    sees have ne role though. only LIE and LSE have fe role

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    Quote Originally Posted by Number 9 large View Post
    sees have ne role though. only LIE and LSE have fe role
    This thread truly seems accursed....rarely have I encountered such relentless nitpicking over the most trivial things. It's only one letter

    I know that you at least meant well, but there is a foul smell in the air here. The wolves are queuing up, one after the other to take their pound of flesh. Each will claim that he only has my best interests at heart, right before he starts to try and eat it.
    Last edited by Spermatozoa; 11-06-2017 at 12:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuivienen View Post
    It's only one letter
    cracked me up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuivienen View Post
    I don't know what an ILI woman would be like, or if they would like me really.
    From my limited known-for-sure sample size (ILI sister), not very different from an ILI man. She is aware of pressure to be more diplomatic/considerate and phrase things more delicately, but she doesn't bend to it. I have a hard time understanding her objections with Fe sometimes, it seems like she sees Fe problems where there are none. But... I am pretty much as trigger-happy about Te as she is about Fe, so we're even. The semi-monologue thing is very true... If I hit upon a topic that engages her, we often end up talking for hours in long, convoluted semi-monologues, picking apart every single detail and theme and such. I tend to do the same things when I stumble across ILIs in the wild. It's kind of frustrating but you also want to have the last word and it's rare to meet people so Ni-feeling. Very tunnel vision. Sometimes I have to forcibly separate myself before I get annoyed.

    ---------------

    I think my Ni-Fe is pretty well accepted by society, actually. Maybe not always understood. Basically I operate under the assumption that my brain is pretty normal and I think just like everyone else except that they all keep insisting otherwise. I'm starting to believe them.
    Phobic So/Sp 6w7 3w2 9w1
    Bit of a comic books nerd, bit of a fashion nerd, a lot of a generalized nerd

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