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Thread: Socionics For Dummies

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Even people that have "multiple personality disorder"?

    P.S.: Is this board only for me slow, or is it slow in general.
    I already want to start raising money to buy a faster server. I'm annoyed by frequent server hangups.
    For some, essence is our greater being outside time, space and human thought processes. Think of it as the oversoul of all the lifetimes lived, whole and profoundly aware without the senses, holding the core of your true being. Each lifetime you live has it's own unique soul for guidance. The small voice within...

    Human terms do not do this concept justice. If you don't believe in more than one lifetime then it is meaningless anyway. There is no mpd at the core of a whole being. If a therapist tries to convince someone they are fragmented when they are not it is unethical and sometimes tragic. True DID is rare and due to extreme abuse. There can be temporary DID due to stress and overwhelming situations like the death of loved ones coinciding with other trauma. When someone has blurred lines between one lifetime and another they can become confused until they learn to tell what belongs to the their current lifetime and what belongs to another time and place. There is also the human imagination which is not limited in depth or breadth except by what it chooses to filter and focus on.

    I know you were probably joking but I said it anyway. Hope I answered your question

    and, yes it is being slow for me too lately.

    “My typology is . . . not in any sense to stick labels on people at first sight. It is not a physiognomy and not an anthropological system, but a critical psychology dealing with the organization and delimitation of psychic processes that can be shown to be typical.”​ —C.G. Jung

     



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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    ok.. hmm... I think Ne too is about some kind of inner essence tho, I explain it to myself as this: since Ne sees the potential of the objects, it's able to capture the inner essence of something/someone and develop from that.

    perhaps it's something in common to both intuitions, as feelers share in common an understanding of humanity, sensors are aware of the body, and thinkers stick to logical consistency.
    Yeah, intuition deals with abstraction in general. Ne is more about what something could be (abstractly), and Ni is more about what something is/will be (abstractly). Ne is more about all possible or imaginable expressions of an abstract object/idea, Ni is more about the one and only expression that reflects the core of it.

    As a more clear example, from the NF perspective, Ne is more concerned with all the different ways a person could be. Ni is more concerned with the core of that person and what is predictable over time.

    Ne is about all the forks in the road, Ni is about focusing on one road for a particular reason.
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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Yeah, intuition deals with abstraction in general. Ne is more about what something could be (abstractly), and Ni is more about what something is/will be (abstractly). Ne is more about all possible or imaginable expressions of an abstract object/idea, Ni is more about the one and only expression that reflects the core of it.

    As a more clear example, from the NF perspective, Ne is more concerned with all the different ways a person could be. Ni is more concerned with the core of that person and what is predictable over time.

    Ne is about all the forks in the road, Ni is about focusing on one road for a particular reason.
    Yeah but when Intuitive types like myself make abstractions from details to general sensory types jump down their throat and make assumptions or ask for more information.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 2w1sw(1w9) helps others to live up to their own standards of what a good person is and is very behind the scenes in the process.
    Tritype 1-2-6 stacking sp/sx


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

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    I've seen Intuitives do the same ^^

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    ok.. hmm... I think Ne too is about some kind of inner essence tho, I explain it to myself as this: since Ne sees the potential of the objects, it's able to capture the inner essence of something/someone and develop from that.
    My take on this is: Someone with good intuition (or intution as a ego function) is good at utilizing intuition in general, but you have to decide which way you want to go, convergence () or divergence ().
    You can't go both directions at the same time... but I guess someone can go both directions, but anyone has a preference to go in one direction. The other direction is more heading towards foreign terrain.
    and are two different viewing angles of intuition.
    Socionics supports this thesis. Someone with strong has also strong and vice versa.
    The weakness of people with a strong focus of intuition is sensing.

    I noticed this in myself that I operate in two different modes:
    When I focus towards intuition my threshold of sensing stimuli is much higher; mainly I become quite unaware of noises and smells in my environment.
    And I realize when I notice noises and smells in my environment my intuition is in hibernation mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    as feelers share in common an understanding of humanity... and thinkers stick to logical consistency.
    The feeling is judging based on the needs of living creatures in general, I'd say.
    Thinking is judging based on laws of pragmatism or rules of cause and effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    My take on this is: Someone with good intuition (or intution as a ego function) is good at utilizing intuition in general, but you have to decide which way you want to go, convergence () or divergence ().
    You can't go both directions at the same time... but I guess someone can go both directions, but anyone has a preference to go in one direction. The other direction is more heading towards foreign terrain.
    and are two different viewing angles of intuition.
    Socionics supports this thesis. Someone with strong has also strong and vice versa.
    The weakness of people with a strong focus of intuition is sensing.

    I noticed this in myself that I operate in two different modes:
    When I focus towards intuition my threshold of sensing stimuli is much higher; mainly I become quite unaware of noises and smells in my environment.
    And I realize when I notice noises and smells in my environment my intuition is in hibernation mode.
    ^ This. Spot on.
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    interesting take... I tend to notice it a lot with T/F... when I am overwhelmed by some emotional thoughts, my logical abilities go MIA.... lol, which is me at work.

    Idk about convergence/divergence... I'll think it through but I guess I get what you're saying, the Ni is more aiming to encompass space and time altogether as if... God. Ne is more about taking things apart in order to further develop them singularly?... somehow I think thinking like this you're actually overlapping the 2 functions... I'm confused!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I know you were probably joking but I said it anyway. Hope I answered your question
    Yeah, I was joking, at least partly; because my - realized some conceptual inconsistency.

    Philosophically my own view of the world is much closer to that one of Thomas Hobbes. I don't believe in existence outside of time and space.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    and, yes it is being slow for me too lately.
    Thank you for your confirmation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Yeah, I was joking, at least partly; because my - realized some conceptual inconsistency.

    Philosophically my own view of the world is much closer to that one of Thomas Hobbes. I don't believe in existence outside of time and space.


    Thank you for your confirmation.
    I also thought of multiple personality disorder before I posted my description, hah. Interesting to see you pick up on it right away.

    I liked Aylen's take on it. I'd add that even if a personality is fragmented, that fact might point at a certain essence or core being.

    It is easier to imagine the core to be whole, but it might be fragmented or discolored or torn apart, and still count as the essence of something.

    I am not an expert on the subject, but with MPD, it seems like the individual has compartmentalized certain experiences and mindsets due to trauma, and keeps replaying them to cope with it. Now what the essence of that person is exactly, is not easy to tell and depends on the individual.

    We may strive for clear answers, but the journey of finding them matters to Ni as well. Ni is not necessarily always concerned with the definite, though that is its aim. Sometimes the journey has more value than reaching the destination itself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ooo View Post
    interesting take... I tend to notice it a lot with T/F... when I am overwhelmed by some emotional thoughts, my logical abilities go MIA.... lol, which is me at work.
    I guess people with feeling ego have a hard time in jobs that demand logical decision making or at least with a high degree of making logical decisons... because it's outside of your natural preference and you want to be true to yourself and your values.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    I also thought of multiple personality disorder before I posted my description, hah. Interesting to see you pick up on it right away.
    Concepts tend to share common ground.

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    Yeah, intuition deals with abstraction in general. Ne is more about what something could be (abstractly), and Ni is more about what something is/will be (abstractly).“

    Why would nature create Ne ? It seems useless compared to what Ni is described to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAWTEASE View Post
    Yeah, intuition deals with abstraction in general. Ne is more about what something could be (abstractly), and Ni is more about what something is/will be (abstractly).“

    Why would nature create Ne ? It seems useless compared to what Ni is described to be.
    because Ti and Fi is where the Ne ego goes deeper

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    Quote Originally Posted by NAWTEASE View Post
    Yeah, intuition deals with abstraction in general. Ne is more about what something could be (abstractly), and Ni is more about what something is/will be (abstractly).“

    Why would nature create Ne ? It seems useless compared to what Ni is described to be.
    Ne is good for innovation. New ways of looking and conceptualizing the world. Innovations, new philosophies, and technological progress depend on Ne in certain ways. Ne can be the beginning of a later creation. First you conceptualize how something could be, and then later someone might actually put it into practice. You could say that's how Alpha and Beta, and Gamma and Delta can work in tandem. Academia can be quite Ne-heavy, especially the humanities like literature, which tend to follow Delta NF preferences and strengths. We need Ne to have something to think about; something to predict or something to put into practice. Ne can be a starting point, that's probably why Alpha is put on the first spot of the Quadra succession.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Someone asked about the difference between Ti PoLR and Seeking, and I came up with a little description. (Discuss!)

    "Ti seeking is interested in how the inner workings of things are, the details of logical frameworks, when EIE then it is more about practical things, when ESE then it is often about more abstract things like astrophysics, but they can like both of course. with Ti PoLR, they may appreciate it if someone is good at that stuff, but they don't really wanna deal with those details, they annoy them, they don't see a use in them. IEE can be a bit of an exception because they are open minded to all kinds of ideas, practical or impractical, in that sense their Ti PoRL is more "flexible" perhaps thanks to Ne lead, at least in practice. with SEE, if you tell them the details of some abstract theory, they get bored and want you to get to the point, aka what is the meaning of this in the grand scheme of things (Ni seeking), why do you tell me this, what can I actually do with it (Se/Te)"
    If you're trying to distinguish between TiSe and TiNe superid, "practical" is probably not the best word to use.

    The idea generally is that EIEs are more focused on having an impact on the world than ESEs, their Ti is less for the purpose of "mental play". Although, they are more intellectual and arguably do engage with abstract structures and academia more despite the fact that they tend to want to turn them into something more impactful or "political".

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    If you're trying to distinguish between TiSe and TiNe superid, "practical" is probably not the best word to use.

    The idea generally is that EIEs are more focused on having an impact on the world than ESEs, their Ti is less for the purpose of "mental play". Although, they are more intellectual and arguably do engage with abstract structures and academia more despite the fact that they tend to want to turn them into something more impactful or "political".
    I actually wasn't talking about their super-ids, but their Duals, who are either ST or NT respectively.
    An EIE would rather appreciate the more "practical" Ti advice from their ST dual, whereas an ESE would rather appreciate the more "abstract" Ti explanations from their NT dual.

    Now I am saying dual... I could also generalize it. People don't really "need" their Duals, but that's the kind of information they find the most personally useful and valuable. An EIE would be more appreciative of ST advice, and an ESE of NT advice, based on their own strengths and weaknesses and values.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    I actually wasn't talking about their super-ids, but their Duals, who are either ST or NT respectively.
    An EIE would rather appreciate the more "practical" Ti advice from their ST dual, whereas an ESE would rather appreciate the more "abstract" Ti explanations from their NT dual.

    Now I am saying dual... I could also generalize it. People don't really "need" their Duals, but that's the kind of information they find the most personally useful and valuable. An EIE would be more appreciative of ST advice, and an ESE of NT advice, based on their own strengths and weaknesses and values.
    Yes, but people appreciate their duals because of how their psyche is structured internally.

    In fact, I think the blocked elements aren't as closely related as you're implying. It's easier to just say that ESEs have strong Se and therefore don't need as much help with it (like, organizing their living space). Similarly EIEs don't need help considering or seeking out new possibilities and information; they do that for themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post

    I noticed this in myself that I operate in two different modes:
    When I focus towards intuition my threshold of sensing stimuli is much higher; mainly I become quite unaware of noises and smells in my environment.
    And I realize when I notice noises and smells in my environment my intuition is in hibernation mode.
    Too much weirdness 4me. At least when I smell something it is indication that I need to look into something. When I taste something I start to wonder about chemistry etc. I can not fully immerse myself without mental wandering.
    Others: Look at scenery. Yes, it is spring god dammit... and it would be nice to conduct some new experiments if I could.
    People think I'm weird.
    Measuring you right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Nr 007 View Post
    At least when I smell something it is indication that I need to look into something. When I taste something I start to wonder about chemistry etc. I can not fully immerse myself without mental wandering.
    I guess I know what you mean, but my focus is more on . I do more of a evaluation if a sensing impression is novel or familiar to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WinnieW View Post
    Even people that have "multiple personality disorder"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    For some, essence is our greater being outside time, space and human thought processes. Think of it as the oversoul of all the lifetimes lived, whole and profoundly aware without the senses, holding the core of your true being. Each lifetime you live has it's own unique soul for guidance. The small voice within...

    Human terms do not do this concept justice. If you don't believe in more than one lifetime then it is meaningless anyway. There is no mpd at the core of a whole being. If a therapist tries to convince someone they are fragmented when they are not it is unethical and sometimes tragic. True DID is rare and due to extreme abuse. There can be temporary DID due to stress and overwhelming situations like the death of loved ones coinciding with other trauma. When someone has blurred lines between one lifetime and another they can become confused until they learn to tell what belongs to the their current lifetime and what belongs to another time and place. There is also the human imagination which is not limited in depth or breadth except by what it chooses to filter and focus on.

    I know you were probably joking but I said it anyway. Hope I answered your question

    and, yes it is being slow for me too lately.
    Yeah the personality (persona, latin for mask) is not the core being.

    The author Malphas, who I think has a pretty interesting model of the human soul, divides the soul into three aspects, the familiar (automatic processes, emotion, instinct etc), the advocate (or the persona, who we are in the eyes of society and how we see our conscious selves most of the time) and the daemon which is like the core essence/higher self you mention.

    He talks about how these concepts are perceived across different world cultures, for example the Greek "Daemon", or Roman "Genius", are like his concept of the daemon, the Norse "Fylgja" seems to have aspects of both the familiar and the daemon, and the Hawaiian "Aumakua"resembles these as well.

    I have seen more evidence through experience that the familiar and advocate exist, but the daimon is more elusive. I think it has some things in common with the familiar nonetheless because automatic responses (which seem like accidents) can sometimes seem to lead to things that define your life (in my experience). For example, going to the pool one day and meeting my first girlfriend. That was totally an "accident" right there, yet it changed who I was forever. And that's why people invent religion too, to explain this kind of occurence, and to hope to control it by invoking gods, God, Karma, Fate etc. But there is only one person who is responsible for this, and that's the person you see in the mirror every morning...and that's the scary part, I think.

    Yes, WinnieW was totally joking but it sparked some interesting discussion nonethless.


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    "Character for a human is his daimon" Heraclitus

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    This is becoming my fav thread, some high quality discussion here
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olimpia View Post
    Ne is good for innovation. New ways of looking and conceptualizing the world. Innovations, new philosophies, and technological progress depend on Ne in certain ways. Ne can be the beginning of a later creation. First you conceptualize how something could be, and then later someone might actually put it into practice. You could say that's how Alpha and Beta, and Gamma and Delta can work in tandem. Academia can be quite Ne-heavy, especially the humanities like literature, which tend to follow Delta NF preferences and strengths. We need Ne to have something to think about; something to predict or something to put into practice. Ne can be a starting point, that's probably why Alpha is put on the first spot of the Quadra succession.
    Yep.

    Quite generally, Ne is good for situations where you don't know what will (or should) happen. There, it's more helpful to come up with ideas for how to improve the current situation or what the "next step" could be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Ne is good for situations where you don't know what will (or should) happen.
    Ni is good "where you don't know what will (or should) happen" as it can feel that.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    If something does not fit to your opinion about someone's type then just ignore that. No one cares about your opinion, anyway.
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sol View Post
    Ni is good "where you don't know what will (or should) happen" as it can feel that.
    I can smell hotels LSI typing

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    Socionics was made in USSR
    so to understand it good you need 2 important components
    vodka and balalaika
    Types examples: video bloggers, actors

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